View Full Version : HK45 vs USP 45
brushy bill
12-02-12, 21:33
HK45 vs USP 45. Using search and not finding exactly what I'm looking for. If you don't want to contribute to the thread, please don't post use 'search'. I have.
Here's what I know.
HK45 is considered better because it is more ergonomical. Replacable side and back inserts.
Capacity is reduced by 2 in HK45.
Mag release and slide release are different.
USP is cheaper.
HK45 is frequently characterized as "bomb proff"...don't see that with USP as often...So,
Otherwise, is there a durability or reliability difference? Other things to consider?
I have never seen any reports of durability problems with the Usp guns. All HK's are built to last.
The HK45 has a trigger channel that can rub your shooting finger. Look it up. I have girl fingers and it affects me so its not just the sausage finger people.
My experience is that the Usp has a nicer trigger but that is only my small sample size. Honestly if the Usp feels good in your hand I would take it over the Hk45 and spend the extra cash on mags and ammo.
Oh and the Hk45 has an o ring on the barrel for improved accuracy. Usp doesn't but the Usp tactical does.
I do not own either. I have shot the HK45c and have done extensive research on HK's. the HK45 has replaceable back straps when using a punch but does not have relaceable side straps. I believe you may have the grips on the HK45 confused with the grips on the P30.
Get what you want and shoot it!
gtmtnbiker98
12-03-12, 08:28
I own both. Aside from the ergo grip on the HK45, internally they are nearly identical. The main difference being the recoil spring assembly. IMO, the USP 45 is a better built, more rugged design. The USP also has a far better trigger.
I own both. Aside from the ergo grip on the HK45, internally they are nearly identical. The main difference being the recoil spring assembly. IMO, the USP 45 is a better built, more rugged design. The USP also has a far better trigger.
I have heard other long-time users of the HK USP 45 express similar opinions. I think that it is an under appreciated-design. If this information is correct, one example of the designs durability.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html
Apparently your awful at searching because this was discussed yesterday...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=117637
brushy bill
12-03-12, 20:48
Apparently your awful at searching because this was discussed yesterday...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=117637
This question was defined more clearly. First, your cited thread is predicated on upgrading when you already possess the USP. I am not in that predicament, so obstensibly, starting from a clean slate would provide more latitude/flexibility for decision making. Secondly, I am not concerned about the ergonomics or the 2 rd difference or your nebulous "superior in everyway" post that really says nothing...I set parameters in my thread primarily focused on the reliability and durability (e.g. functionality not 'feel'). More what gtmtnbiker98 posted. Reading comprehension really is fundamental. But thanks nonetheless for the snarky 'help'.
Reliability and durability are the same. Virtually bomb proof.
This question was defined more clearly. First, your cited thread is predicated on upgrading when you already possess the USP. I am not in that predicament, so obstensibly, starting from a clean slate would provide more latitude/flexibility for decision making. Secondly, I am not concerned about the ergonomics or the 2 rd difference or your nebulous "superior in everyway" post that really says nothing...I set parameters in my thread primarily focused on the reliability and durability (e.g. functionality not 'feel'). More what gtmtnbiker98 posted. Reading comprehension really is fundamental. But thanks nonetheless for the snarky 'help'.
No I just asked the same question with less words........because the answers are the same........:big_boss:
Magic_Salad0892
12-04-12, 08:32
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027
I'd roll the HK45.
10-8 performance makes a good rear sight for it.
(I'd personally get the HK45CT, 10-8 Rear sight, Hienie Front Sight, LEM Trigger + Light Firing Pin Block Spring, and Light Hammer Spring, Standard Trigger Return Spring.)
I went through this same dilemma years ago. I went with the USP. Holds two more rounds and cost 3/4 as much (at least it did five years ago).
I can't say I regret it. One of my all time favorite pistols. I've only got about 6k through it, but I did take it to a three day handgun 2 class (went through the whole class, 1850+ rounds, and didn't clean or lube it) and it performed admirably.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Talnz167/Cannons/PA095996b.jpg
Psalms144.1
12-04-12, 11:01
Brushy - I haven't owned or extensively shot either platform, but I do have a lot of experience with their little brothers - the USP45c and the 45CT. My thoughts on them are:
1. The 45CT with the "O" ring barrel gives a little more practical accuracy than the USP45c - so I will assume you can transfer that along to your question as well. Mind you, the USP45c is a very accurate pistol, but, shooting comparable ammo at comparable targets at the same range, MY groups are tighter with the 45CT.
2. The USP45c has a noticeably better DA trigger than the 45CT - whose DA trigger is nothing short of punishing. In SA, the triggers are very close - too close to tell a practical difference between the two.
3. The HK45 offers a picatinny rail, the USP45 offers the ridiculous "you suck and we hate you" proprietary rail-like groove on the dust cover - so if you're looking to mount a light on your pistol, you'll have to use an adapter with the USP.
4. Both pistols are stupidly reliable - I would have to guess I have well in excess of 20,000 rounds through the two platforms combined, and can't recall a single issue with either.
Honestly, the HK45 feels better in the hand and, for me, that led to it shooting better for me, but that's clearly a subjective opinion and your opinion may be exactly opposite. I'm not sure you can go too far wrong with either platform.
Regards,
Kevin
brushy bill
12-04-12, 20:47
I went through this same dilemma years ago. I went with the USP. Holds two more rounds and cost 3/4 as much (at least it did five years ago).
I can't say I regret it. One of my all time favorite pistols. I've only got about 6k through it, but I did take it to a three day handgun 2 class (went through the whole class, 1850+ rounds, and didn't clean or lube it) and it performed admirably.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Talnz167/Cannons/PA095996b.jpg
This is a beautiful pistol. Which variant and what is the rail adapter? Thanks.
brushy bill
12-04-12, 20:49
Brushy - I haven't owned or extensively shot either platform, but I do have a lot of experience with their little brothers - the USP45c and the 45CT. My thoughts on them are:
1. The 45CT with the "O" ring barrel gives a little more practical accuracy than the USP45c - so I will assume you can transfer that along to your question as well. Mind you, the USP45c is a very accurate pistol, but, shooting comparable ammo at comparable targets at the same range, MY groups are tighter with the 45CT.
2. The USP45c has a noticeably better DA trigger than the 45CT - whose DA trigger is nothing short of punishing. In SA, the triggers are very close - too close to tell a practical difference between the two.
3. The HK45 offers a picatinny rail, the USP45 offers the ridiculous "you suck and we hate you" proprietary rail-like groove on the dust cover - so if you're looking to mount a light on your pistol, you'll have to use an adapter with the USP.
4. Both pistols are stupidly reliable - I would have to guess I have well in excess of 20,000 rounds through the two platforms combined, and can't recall a single issue with either.
Honestly, the HK45 feels better in the hand and, for me, that led to it shooting better for me, but that's clearly a subjective opinion and your opinion may be exactly opposite. I'm not sure you can go too far wrong with either platform.
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. Your post and a couple of the others pretty much answers my question. I was concerned primarily with reliability and durability and not feel. Sounds like the USP doesn't give up anything to the HK45 in these areas. Thanks all who provided comments.
I just got a nice condition KK ('99) USP45 and the thing is a friggin' laser beam. The grip is a little blocky compared to my P30L, but I'll be damned if I don't shoot it better! I don't think I'll be needing an HK45 anytime soon.
I have a p2000sk .40 and hk45c
They feel identical. For a carry gun i like them both.
Id go hk45
The HK USP in my observation is built more like a tank than the HK45. This is because the HK45 uses a buffer (some plastic at the end of the spring) whereas the USP uses a dual spring system. The USP has been known to have the ability to fire .45 super, which is not recommended at all, of course. The HK45 has never been a bad option. It does have a longer sight radius and has been proven to fire 50,000 rounds [source: http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027] but it is my understanding it's not been one to want to withstand the .45 Super. EDIT: It has been found to withstand it also. [sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super#cite_note-np-0 AND http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/90431-45-super-hk45-2.html ]
Disclaimer: Compact models are a no-go for super presumably. (low mass slide)
They are both great guns. You can put an HK45 mag release on a USP45, by the way. So in the end, get what works for you.
HK45 has lower bore axis, and may suit modern shooting styles more than the USP, but the USP has notably soft recoil. This is because it's somewhat delayed in a way. That also means it doesn't tend to shoot as fast as effectively. (competition shooters change the springs out for normal ones so the recoil and return to target are more swift.)
It is worth noting the HK45 does not come with night sights like some models of USP45. (last I checked)
All that said, I'm a USP guy. I like the HK45 and wouldn't mind owning one of those too.
Sold my HK45FS and HK45C. At the end of the day, those extra 2 rounds mattered to me. And I sourced something like 12 USP45 mags inexpensively.
IMO, the HK45 had the much better trigger. Also, far more ergonomic. But I wanted a beater, and at $500, the USP45 was worth it to me.
This is a beautiful pistol. Which variant and what is the rail adapter? Thanks.
Thanks. It's a V1 with a GG&G adapter.
They don't make the FDE frame anymore, though.
RAM Engineer
12-05-12, 12:44
Here's what I know.
HK45 is considered better because it is more ergonomical. Replacable side and back inserts.
No replaceable side inserts on the HK45.
And "ergonomical" isn't a word.
ApexAchilles
12-05-12, 16:59
HK45 vs USP 45. Using search and not finding exactly what I'm looking for. If you don't want to contribute to the thread, please don't post use 'search'. I have.
Here's what I know.
HK45 is considered better because it is more ergonomical. Replacable side and back inserts.
Capacity is reduced by 2 in HK45.
Mag release and slide release are different.
USP is cheaper.
HK45 is frequently characterized as "bomb proff"...don't see that with USP as often...So,
Otherwise, is there a durability or reliability difference? Other things to consider?
USPs are pretty bomb proof themselves, I can't imagine what one would have to do to smash a modern semi auto pistol from a major manufacturer, I'd choose the HK45 just for the grip size myself, I'm 6'4" and still find USPs to be a little large.
brushy bill
12-05-12, 18:57
And "ergonomical" isn't a word.
Maybe not in Alabama...but if you examine the parlance elsewhere you may discover:
http://www.yourdictionary.com/ergonomical
Moreover, the term's usage isn't confined solely to the vernacular of peasants...you may also encounter it in more high brow scholarly articles such as:
http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~jacob/250hcm/ungvary-vertegaal-sensorg.pdf
But I do appreciate your initiative and willingness to assume the mantle of 'grammar police'...an often unappreciated and friendless endeavor, but essential nonetheless. Nice work!
brushy bill
12-05-12, 19:33
The HK USP in my observation is built more like a tank than the HK45. This is because the HK45 uses a buffer (some plastic at the end of the spring) whereas the USP uses a dual spring system. The USP has been known to have the ability to fire .45 super, which is not recommended at all, of course. The HK45 has never been a bad option. It does have a longer sight radius and has been proven to fire 50,000 rounds [source: http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027] but it is my understanding it's not been one to want to withstand the .45 Super. EDIT: It has been found to withstand it also. [sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super#cite_note-np-0 AND http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/90431-45-super-hk45-2.html ]
Disclaimer: Compact models are a no-go for super presumably. (low mass slide)
They are both great guns. You can put an HK45 mag release on a USP45, by the way. So in the end, get what works for you.
HK45 has lower bore axis, and may suit modern shooting styles more than the USP, but the USP has notably soft recoil. This is because it's somewhat delayed in a way. That also means it doesn't tend to shoot as fast as effectively. (competition shooters change the springs out for normal ones so the recoil and return to target are more swift.)
It is worth noting the HK45 does not come with night sights like some models of USP45. (last I checked)
All that said, I'm a USP guy. I like the HK45 and wouldn't mind owning one of those too.
Thanks Casull...good info.
brushy bill
12-05-12, 19:35
Thanks. It's a V1 with a GG&G adapter.
They don't make the FDE frame anymore, though.
I apologize Talon. I typed variant when I meant version...is this a special version of the USP or standard model? Copy that the FDE frame isn't made anymore, but this looks different to me for some reason. Maybe just me. Thanks.
Alaskapopo
12-05-12, 20:59
HK45 has lower bore axis, and may suit modern shooting styles more than the USP, but the USP has notably soft recoil. This is because it's somewhat delayed in a way. That also means it doesn't tend to shoot as fast as effectively. (competition shooters change the springs out for normal ones so the recoil and return to target are more swift.)
.
I used to carry a USP in 45 acp and when I went to a Glock 21 at my first department I noticed less recoil and far less muzzle flip with the Glock 21 vs the HK.
Pat
I have owned and loved both (USP Tactical and HK45). Either is a good choice. One is in no way, shape, or form a more reliable or "better" platform. What I can say is I enjoyed my HK45 more. I feel it fit my hands better, but there still was no real issue with the fit of the USP. So in my opinion, my ENJOYMENT of the HK45 is a subjective to my feelings of fit for ME. your ENJOYMENT may be different.
Alaskapopo
12-05-12, 21:57
I have owned and loved both (USP Tactical and HK45). Either is a good choice. One is in no way, shape, or form a more reliable or "better" platform. What I can say is I enjoyed my HK45 more. I feel it fit my hands better, but there still was no real issue with the fit of the USP. So in my opinion, my ENJOYMENT of the HK45 is a subjective to my feelings of fit for ME. your ENJOYMENT may be different.
I would say an improvement in egonomics does indeed make the pistol better. The HK45 was designed to be an improvement on the USP and it is. Thats my take. The HK45 is the best feeling 45 I have felt in the hand. Even better than a single stack 1911.
Pat
I would say an improvement in egonomics does indeed make the pistol better. The HK45 was designed to be an improvement on the USP and it is. Thats my take. The HK45 is the best feeling 45 I have felt in the hand. Even better than a single stack 1911.
Pat
For you and I, yes the ergonomics are an improvement. But to other people I know they still prefer the USP...
Alaskapopo
12-05-12, 22:16
For you and I, yes the ergonomics are an improvement. But to other people I know they still prefer the USP...
Why what did they tell you? Like I said the HK45 was designed to be an improvement on the USP.
Pat
FlyingHunter
12-05-12, 22:23
I can't speak to the USP, however, my HK45 is one solid feeling pistol and I can honestly say has over 1k rounds thru it without a single failure. A little on the large size for civi CCW in my opinion.
Why what did they tell you? Like I said the HK45 was designed to be an improvement on the USP.
Pat
they said they like the feel of the USP better
Why what did they tell you? Like I said the HK45 was designed to be an improvement on the USP.
Pat
Sounds like the trigger in the HK45 is much worse than that of the USP. One could go back and forth with the pluses and minuses and come to the realization that any improvement is subjective. The o-ring on the barrel may reap a tangible accuracy benefit over the standard USP. The HK45 may feel better in your hand, but I've found that means little, at least to me. I shoot Glock 9mms better than any other 9mm, yet it feels terrible in my hand and has a rediculous grip angle to boot. Thing feel like a pirates flint lock but it's the easiest 9mm for me to shoot well and fast.
Sounds like the trigger in the HK45 is much worse than that of the USP. One could go back and forth with the pluses and minuses and come to the realization that any improvement is subjective. The o-ring on the barrel may reap a tangible accuracy benefit over the standard USP. The HK45 may feel better in your hand, but I've found that means little, at least to me. I shoot Glock 9mms better than any other 9mm, yet it feels terrible in my hand and has a rediculous grip angle to boot. Thing feel like a pirates flint lock but it's the easiest 9mm for me to shoot well and fast.
HK45 has a great trigger. It is the HK match trigger. Same as my USP tactical.
Bullseye-777
12-05-12, 23:43
I've never held or shot an HK45 so don't have any comment on it.
But I have a USP 45 and it's a great shooting gun. I have other pistols
that are worth more but the USP 45 is probably the most reliable gun
I own. Not much recoil and very accurate.
If you can rent both, that would no doubt help you decide which is best for you. Good luck.
Magic_Salad0892
12-06-12, 00:07
You can get match triggers for the USP series, and the O ring works for the USP series as well, so that's not a point to the HK45.
I apologize Talon. I typed variant when I meant version...is this a special version of the USP or standard model? Copy that the FDE frame isn't made anymore, but this looks different to me for some reason. Maybe just me. Thanks.
No worries. Yea, it was a special model that came out with called the Custom Combat. The 9s and 40s came with Novak sights, grip tape, and the jet-funnel whereas the 45s only came with the Novaks and grip tape as there is no jet-funnel kit for the 45s. They could be had in FDE or OD. I’ve read it was mostly a marketing thing because HK was having a hard time selling the colored framed USPs.
They weren’t selling well and I was able to get that one from CDNN for $730 (cheaper than a “regular” USP45), NIB back in 07ish. They’ve since been discontinued and are pricing up to $1,000 in like-new-condition. Mines not exactly like-new-condition anymore though, haha.
gtmtnbiker98
12-06-12, 13:37
HK45 has a great trigger. It is the HK match trigger. Same as my USP tactical.False. It does not have a match trigger, the only component is the match sear. Nothing else. The DA trigger pull on my HK45 is nothing short of 16 lbs. The SA is pretty good and the HK45 has a better reset than the USP. Taking all things in to consideration, the USP 45 has a better all around trigger. Yes, I own both.
I used to carry a USP in 45 acp and when I went to a Glock 21 at my first department I noticed less recoil and far less muzzle flip with the Glock 21 vs the HK.
Pat
Lower bore axis of the glock in addition to some proper technique are always going to be "better" imho. The muzzle flip of the USP45 will be more than a glock for sure. I'm pretty certain the "felt" recoil of the USP has to be less, but then again, we all are different! and that's not a bad thing. I've not shot a glock .45 yet but you make me curious.
You can get match triggers for the USP series, and the O ring works for the USP series as well, so that's not a point to the HK45.
It's worth noting that the O-rings have come off in the cases of some folks... which does not effect the function. They are replaceable, though.
False. It does not have a match trigger, the only component is the match sear. Nothing else. The DA trigger pull on my HK45 is nothing short of 16 lbs. The SA is pretty good and the HK45 has a better reset than the USP. Taking all things in to consideration, the USP 45 has a better all around trigger. Yes, I own both.
I own both as well and would echo your statements.
I've read so many posts where someone says this HK model trigger is better than that........ yada,yada,yada!!! :D
I currently own a HK45,HK45c and P2000.
Of the 3, my BA code German HK45c has the best trigger by far.
I'm sure you'll find plenty of people who say the opposite.
What does this tell me? You have lots of different opinions on what a good trigger is AND HK seems to have a hard time keeping parts consistent. I've handled and shot quite a few over the years and I never know what i'm going to get. The reset of the USP/HK45 models are a little better than the P-series pistols.
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