second to the p-mag... what's the best AR mag? [Archive]

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skyugo

02-19-08, 19:44

something USGI style preferably.
my c-products mags are pretty good, but i've had issues with rounds hanging up and read some bad crap.

Pinnacle

02-19-08, 19:48

Why do you want to know the "second best" mag? Just curious.

I have always had great luck with the D&H Industries magazines. C Products have not treated me nearly as nice.

YMMV:)

Mantis

02-19-08, 20:21

I like the D&H and NHMTG both over the PMag.

skyugo

02-19-08, 20:27

Why do you want to know the "second best" mag? Just curious.

I have always had great luck with the D&H Industries magazines. C Products have not treated me nearly as nice.

YMMV:)

i want metal mags. tha's all.

Southern Cross

02-19-08, 20:32

Not that I run my gear hard or anything...but aside from the mags that came with my guns when I bought them...all of my mags are NHMTG and they have yet to fail me. For the price you pay at 44Mag you just can't beat them.

GaryXD

02-19-08, 20:39

As far as aluminum mags go the only brand I haven't had issues with is NHMTG/Okay.

Pinnacle

02-19-08, 22:07

i want metal mags. tha's all.

OK. I get that.

Have you tried the Pmags yet? I wasn't the first one on the bandwagon but I'm driving that sucker now!!

It is really a shame that Magpul's Pmag had to come after so many awful polymer magazines.

Paladin4415

02-19-08, 23:57

Current GI issue Okay or Center Industries are both good choices, and are usually available.

NickB

02-20-08, 01:13

I like the D&H and NHMTG both over the PMag.

Care to elaborate? Critiques always help fine tune a product more than compliments, so let's hear them.

Failure2Stop

02-20-08, 03:38

I have an almost superstitious need for my GI mags to be Okay. I upagrade them with MagPul followers and preferably Ranger Plates.

My favorite aluminum mag is DSG, in FDE (http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1409&CFID=1767957&CFTOKEN=c09f8f5f949712d0-3637F302-1372-0DE7-5253AA54D6462CED), with MagPul Follower and Ranger Plate. The finish is way better than paint, and though it is not impervious to wear, it does last.

rob_s

02-20-08, 04:37

We've done two local group buys with the "Bravo Company USA" marked D&H mags (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Magazines-p/magazines%20dh%20gt30%2010pack.htm) and so far everyone has been very happy with them. I have at least 40 of them myself.

I'm with you on the aluminum mags. I own 11 Pmags and had issues with them not dropping free (at all, ever) in the T&E KAC SR15 I was running at Pat Rogers' class last December. Life has interfered and I have not had a chance to try them out in my Colts, so I don't know if the KAC just had a tight magwell.

KevinB

02-20-08, 05:17

If your PMags are tight -- one can always hit them lightly with a fine grit sandpaper (800 ish) and clean them up.

I'm probably the largest owner/user of PMAG's outside a store -- (with my latest Brownells buy I am over 500 -- although admittedly several hundred have been given out to soldiers in Iraq and Afghan and both Canada and the US for T&E) --- I've yet to have a problem with any -- except for the one we drove over here with twice on the helipad with a armored suburban -- and the one that I repeatedly dropped off the second floor balcony on its lips.

NoBody

02-20-08, 05:42

I have an almost superstitious need for my GI mags to be Okay. I upagrade them with MagPul followers and preferably Ranger Plates.

Ditto :D

markm

02-20-08, 07:20

As far as aluminum mags go the only brand I haven't had issues with is NHMTG/Okay.

Same here.

KDG

02-20-08, 08:01

I second the Bravo Co D&H mags with Magul followers and ranger plates added.

Have switched over to Pmags (only own a few) which lock up tight and drop free in both my Bushy and Colt.

Kevin B....500? Holy shit!

C4IGrant

02-20-08, 08:28

something USGI style preferably.
my c-products mags are pretty good, but i've had issues with rounds hanging up and read some bad crap.

These would be my next choice.

C4

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Mags/L5%20Clear%20mag.jpg

Mantis

02-20-08, 09:37

Care to elaborate? Critiques always help fine tune a product more than compliments, so let's hear them.

So true. Unfortunately, my likes are just shallow personal preferences. I do have a handful of PMags and love Magpul products in general.

decodeddiesel

02-20-08, 12:28

I have a bunch of Okay and Center Industries USGI mags left over from my last trip to the sandbox. I must say I didn't have any issues with them over there (green follower, 550 cord "mag-pull"), but I loaded my mags with 28 rnds, never a round more. Now after a thorough cleaning and inspection, I have upgraded most of them with magpul followers and ranger plates and feel comfortable stuffing 30 rounds into them. They are fine mags, but if I had nothing and started from scratch I would go with P-mags.

hellbound

02-20-08, 14:20

I have a bunch of black teflon D&H mags with orange MP Gen II's which work 100%. they are smooth loading, drop free, never a problem with 30 rounds, and haven't let me down once.

I sent a bunch of them with Magpul Gen II's over to Iraq with my friend (2LT 82nd Airborne, 2nd BCT, Task Force Falcon) and he gave some to his NCO. needless to say they got some serious use whether it was at the training range or on combat missions, and neither had a single problem.

i've used some older Okay mags with no problems.

C-Products are alright, i've had some minor issues. I use them pretty much just for the range and spares now.

TheDude

02-24-08, 02:53

D&H industries makes some good'uns. I am waiting on an order of Brownell's tactical magazines with crome silicone spring and MAGPUL enhanced reliability follower, you know cause they're out of PMAGS. I'll let you know.

DocMinster

02-24-08, 19:47

NickB

02-24-08, 22:08

I prefer Okay Mags.....

But IMHO PMAGS are not #1 AR mag on the market. That #1 Status belongs to HK AR Mags. Only pitfall is the price.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=739437&utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=655

Just my .02c

Doc

Care to elaborate? I've never had a malfunction with an HK mag, either, but men with far more rounds down range than I often disagree.

BushmasterFanBoy

02-24-08, 22:36

Care to elaborate? I've never had a malfunction with an HK mag, either, but men with far more rounds down range than I often disagree.

I've had at least two malfunctions. Each time the follower failed to ride up quick enough to engage the bolt catch. I've heard this is because HK uses relatively weak springs that are prone to wear. Also, had an incident where going prone caused a feedlip deformation, nothing that prohibited proper feeding, but it bothered me enough to bend it back into alignment afterwards.

My Pmags have never failed me, I'll continue to use them until they do (highly unlikely) or they need replaced.

C4IGrant

02-25-08, 08:27

I prefer Okay Mags.....

But IMHO PMAGS are not #1 AR mag on the market. That #1 Status belongs to HK AR Mags. Only pitfall is the price.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=739437&utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=655

Just my .02c

Doc

HK mags represent one of the lesser mags on the market. Here is why:

1. Reliability is not there (especially with SBR's in the 10.5 realm).
2. They can rust.
3. Heavy.
4. Big.
5. Expensive.

C4

decodeddiesel

02-25-08, 09:07

AnchorArmament

02-25-08, 10:27

These would be my next choice.

C4

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Mags/L5%20Clear%20mag.jpg

I agree with Grant. The Lancer mag is really looking like a player in the quality magazine department.

DocMinster

02-25-08, 13:49

For the unconverted (these videos did it for me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCFXcOOb4jc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BA-EdEAHVA&feature=related

Oh and on the HK mags...from what I have seen C4IGrant's critism is spot on. Why not buy 2 or 3 Pmags instead of one HK mag?

I have not used an HK But held one... I have heard that they malfunction flawless...as for the rusting I dont know anything about that this is the first time I have heard anything about rusting of the HK mag.
BUT
$$$$ is the issue...man $45-55 on average to damn expensive for me.

PMAGS are leaps and bounds better than the old Thermold mags. The ONLY problem with them is the need to use that dust cover thing when storing them long periods of time. I guess they are afraid of feed lip distortion...a definite draw back as 90% of feed failures are due to a bad Mag.

Like I said ...
That is why I hoarded and prefer the Okay Mags I have a few Colt mags too ... same animal though.

Doc

Failure2Stop

02-25-08, 13:58

I have not used an HK But held one...

The people that criticize the HK mags have put literally thousands of rounds downrange with them, and compared them to other magazines that they have also put thousands of rounds down range with.

These are not new issues to people that have exposure to these magazines under other than hobbyist interest.

Why give accolade to a product that you have not used?

markm

02-25-08, 14:00

HK mags represent one of the lesser mags on the market. Here is why:

1. Reliability is not there (especially with SBR's in the 10.5 realm).
2. They can rust.
3. Heavy.
4. Big.
5. Expensive.

I was giving one of the instructors an 08 Magpul catalogue last week. (he's not just firearms... defensive tactics, handcuffs, etc.)

Anyway, I asked him if he'd tried the Pmag yet.... "No. Not yet... I like those HK high reliability mags", he says. I didn't even bother trying to debate the HKs with him. (he also has a DPMS AR that he's qualified on) :confused:

markm

02-25-08, 14:05

IPMAGS are leaps and bounds better than the old Thermold mags. The ONLY problem with them is the need to use that dust cover thing when storing them long periods of time.

There is no NEED to do this. It's just an option. There have already been mags stored for 8 plus months, fully loaded, with no affect on the feed lips or mag body.

AnchorArmament

02-25-08, 14:07

The H&K's are a nice looking product. They do look like a quality product.

But, if Larry Vickers and Pat Rogers say the H&K is a No Go, then that's all I need. It would take me a while to put the lead down range in an H&K mag that they have. But now I don't need to waste the time to find out. I appreciate that they report what they find.

DocMinster

02-25-08, 14:07

Why give accolade to a product that you have not used?

why... HK looked like and felt like a quality product ...I have a close friend that has used them... and finally.......

I have never drove/owned a Ferrari :) .....But... well enough said. ;)

RAM Engineer

02-25-08, 14:11

I have not used an HK But held one... I have heard that they malfunction flawless...

Yes, I have heard that they malfunction flawlessly as well! :D

Failure2Stop

02-25-08, 14:15

I have never drove/owned a Ferrari :) .....But... well enough said. ;)

Would you tell a professional driver the Ferrari is better than what he is recommending without personal experience of either?

Would you entertain someone treating your traumatic amuptation if their medical knowledge was gleaned wholly from watching ER?

NickB

02-25-08, 14:19

The ONLY problem with them is the need to use that dust cover thing when storing them long periods of time. I guess they are afraid of feed lip distortion...a definite draw back as 90% of feed failures are due to a bad Mag.

Like I said ...
That is why I hoarded and prefer the Okay Mags I have a few Colt mags too ... same animal though.

I'm sitting next to a PMAG that has been loaded for about 18 months. 30 rounds, no cover, no measurable dimensional change to the feedlips whatsoever. The snap cap is a precaution - if you're hoarding loaded mags for years at a time, there isn't much reason NOT to use the cover. If you're storing mags for SHTF scenarios, leave the covers off - it won't be a problem.

markm

02-25-08, 14:20

Yes, I have heard that they malfunction flawlessly as well! :D

That does seem to be the consensus. :D

Harv

02-25-08, 14:27

Originally Posted by DocMinster
I have never drove/owned a Ferrari .....But... well enough said.

There is such a thing as being "out of your Lane" and you are out of yours..
You have no experience with HK mags, ergo you have no relevent opinion about them....

C4IGrant

02-25-08, 14:28

I have not used an HK But held one... I have heard that they malfunction flawless...as for the rusting I dont know anything about that this is the first time I have heard anything about rusting of the HK mag.
BUT
$$$$ is the issue...man $45-55 on average to damn expensive for me.

PMAGS are leaps and bounds better than the old Thermold mags. The ONLY problem with them is the need to use that dust cover thing when storing them long periods of time. I guess they are afraid of feed lip distortion...a definite draw back as 90% of feed failures are due to a bad Mag.

Like I said ...
That is why I hoarded and prefer the Okay Mags I have a few Colt mags too ... same animal though.

Doc

I am concerned that you believe that the HK mags are #1, but have never used one.

Also, negative on needing to use the dust cover. I never do.

C4

Heavy Metal

02-25-08, 15:02

The dust cover is an option, not a mandate.

DocMinster

02-25-08, 20:34

I am concerned that you believe that the HK mags are #1, but have never used one.

Also, negative on needing to use the dust cover. I never do.

C4

O boy I dont want anyone to be "concerned "here I use USGI Mags as they were availible to me ...um ..."cheap".;)

I like the HK Mag...as does my buddy and a few more people "out there". I will probably continue to like the HK mag ... but from afar as the price is noncondusive to wallet.
When I handled one recently it seemed sturdy and the follower had ZERO tilt. and out of the maybe 30-40K+ rounds of 5.56 that I have fired since my inception the the U.S. Army in 89-98 and to present... I have not had many problems with NEWish USGI mags. Old tired USGI mags well thats a different story.

Concerning HK Mags as someone else posted earlier I guess there is some sort of a "spring problem" I wonder if one of those Magpul referb kits would fit the bill and address the weak spring problem?:confused:

ALTHOUGH I do plan on picking up 1ea of these HK animals this spring when I attend DARC to give it a true "beating".

as for the PMAG... Like I already said Great product and leaps and bounds better than the old Thermold Mags.

From Magpuls press release:
The Impact Cover snaps firmly onto the top of the PMAG™ via interlocking tabs (unlike aftermarket dust
covers) and can be quickly removed with one hand. Fitted into place, the Impact Cover provides impact
protection for the feed lips, prevents dirt/dust intrusion, and eliminates distortion of the feed lips caused by
long-term loaded storage. When separated, the Impact Cover serves as a magazine tool that facilitates
unloading and disassembly. A lanyard hole is included to prevent part loss.

Am I missing something here OR are they saying without the aforementioned Impact Cover there is a possibility of feed lip distortion??
Please advise :confused:
I hope not because Id rather not be bothered with these covers.

BTW great discussion lots of great info here for those new guys out there. :D

Doc

Heavy Metal

02-25-08, 21:24

The covers are a redundant design feature included to cover a possible long term storage condition that does not appear to have manifested itself. And they are also dust covers that...supirse....keep dust out!

It is called over-engineering your product.

From the Belt, Duct-Tape, Suspenders school of thought......

NickB

02-25-08, 23:25

O boy I dont want anyone to be "concerned "here I use USGI Mags as they were availible to me ...um ..."cheap".;)

I like the HK Mag...as does my buddy and a few more people "out there". I will probably continue to like the HK mag ... but from afar as the price is noncondusive to wallet.
When I handled one recently it seemed sturdy and the follower had ZERO tilt. and out of the maybe 30-40K+ rounds of 5.56 that I have fired since my inception the the U.S. Army in 89-98 and to present... I have not had many problems with NEWish USGI mags. Old tired USGI mags well thats a different story.

There is a very reputable manufacturer with many government contracts who has done some private testing on the PMAG. He has individual PMAGs with 50,000-100,000 rounds on them.

Concerning HK Mags as someone else posted earlier I guess there is some sort of a "spring problem" I wonder if one of those Magpul referb kits would fit the bill and address the weak spring problem?:confused:

I believe the HK magazines use a proprietary spring, but someone may correct me on this. They certainly will not accept the Magpul follower sold in our rebuild kit, but that doesn't seem to be the issue anyway.

ALTHOUGH I do plan on picking up 1ea of these HK animals this spring when I attend DARC to give it a true "beating".

as for the PMAG... Like I already said Great product and leaps and bounds better than the old Thermold Mags.

From Magpuls press release:
The Impact Cover snaps firmly onto the top of the PMAG™ via interlocking tabs (unlike aftermarket dust
covers) and can be quickly removed with one hand. Fitted into place, the Impact Cover provides impact
protection for the feed lips, prevents dirt/dust intrusion, and eliminates distortion of the feed lips caused by
long-term loaded storage. When separated, the Impact Cover serves as a magazine tool that facilitates
unloading and disassembly. A lanyard hole is included to prevent part loss.

Am I missing something here OR are they saying without the aforementioned Impact Cover there is a possibility of feed lip distortion??
Please advise :confused:
I hope not because Id rather not be bothered with these covers.

Final answer, straight from the horse's mouth: the impact/dust cover is just a precaution. The PMAG polymers are very new, so we didn't have the luxury of 50+ years of material T&E like aluminum and steel magazine manufacturers. Are they necessary? I suppose that depends - if you're going to use your magazines as paperweights for the next 20 years, there really isn't any reason not to use the impact cover. If you're actually going to use your PMAGs as intended, the cover is probably overkill.

Personally, I have snap covers on my stockpiled mags, and no covers on the mags I shoot. Like I said before - we have some of the first prototypes sitting at the office, loaded with 30 rounds, no snap cover, and it's been almost 18 months. If your PMAG feedlips creep, send them back - I want to see it, because you'll be the first to report such a problem.

Eric

02-26-08, 03:43

I believe the HK magazines use a proprietary spring, but someone may correct me on this. They certainly will not accept the Magpul follower sold in our rebuild kit, but that doesn't seem to be the issue anyway. Correct. USGI springs don't work. HK does not offer their proprietary spring as a separate item. :rolleyes:

markm

02-26-08, 07:51

The snap cover appears to be a case of NO GOOD DEED GOING UNPUNISHED!

At least MOST people get it.

PhotomanM4

02-26-08, 08:22

Eagle1*

02-26-08, 13:01

I am glad I read this post, I have alot of C Products mags and have never had an issue with them. I did just order 3 standard PMags to see how they differ (and work) from my standard C-mags that I have. I did watch the video and that was something to see, thats for sure!

markm

02-26-08, 15:09

I did just order 3 standard PMags to see how they differ (and work) from my standard C-mags that I have.

You'll never buy a C prod again. Believe me.

Jerm

02-26-08, 15:24

i thought this was even more impressive than the truck test's(more practical anyway)...

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312

decodeddiesel

02-26-08, 17:06

i thought this was even more impressive than the truck test's(more practical anyway)...

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312

Indeed it is. Great article by Stickman.

GaryXD

02-26-08, 20:08

You'll never buy a C prod again. Believe me.

I'll never buy any after seeing this thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=365633

decodeddiesel

02-26-08, 21:28

I'll never buy any (C prod) after seeing this thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=365633

Yikes...I just went and looked at the C Products mag they threw in with my LMT. It's a DISASTER! Looks like a 3 years old made it. So I stole the magpul follower and spring out of it and stuffed it into a spare OKay I had laying around :D

aloharover

02-27-08, 11:05

if you want an alum mag, try out the brownells. When compared to USGI mags they have held up very well to heat, dust, and FA use.
Not claiming they are better or worse the PMags, just offering another option.

5pins

02-27-08, 22:22

Midway has Stoner 20 and 30 round mags with Magpul followers on sale for $9.99. I got some stoner mags from then with out the Magpul followers a few mounts ago. They seem to be the same quality as USGI.
I got some Brownell mags a few years ago and they were not any better then any other USGI mag I have used. I think the Pmags are the best.

scarroll

02-28-08, 11:54

I apologize for dropping this information here. I recently joined and basically don't know where to go with it. It's basically a new modular reloading system.

We recently posted a new youtube video (Type stractech into the search field). We also posted the following "how to" link. Website will be published in April. System available soon after - "Spring 2008". Any questions let me know. Take care all.

http://www.stractech.com/tangible/instruction.html

Sean P. Carroll
scarroll@stractech.com
Reply With Quote

C4IGrant

02-28-08, 11:58

scarroll

02-28-08, 14:06

Sir - Retail price is $296.00. Our Military/LE discount is $207.40. This includes one system with two nylon carriers. We also offer a lifetime warranty on the system.

Each system holds 3 magazines. We will also offer an adapter that allows 4 per unit.

rmecapn

02-28-08, 14:18

I recently joined and basically don't know where to go with it.

This (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=14) would have been the better place I believe.

I saw this over at Lightfighter several months back. You've got a lot of skeptics over there. I guess time will tell.

gyp_c2

02-29-08, 22:26

I'll never buy any after seeing this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=365633

...how come?
The problem was admitted, corrected, and applied to one shifts' error on a newer SS mag they make. It looks like the company took care of it and didn't do the BS dance blaming anything but their own mag...
I kinda' like that approach to taking care of customers...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

AnchorArmament

03-01-08, 05:58

One of the benefits of the AWB sunsetting is that companies were able to spend time doing R&D and creating great new products for the civilian market again. Currently I see Magpul Pmags, and the latest USGI mags with Magpul followers as option #1. I had minimal issues with old black follower USGI mags, an occasional issue with the green followers and zero issues with Magpul followers.

Now that the Government is seeking a polymer magazine, you will see evolution occur again. Magpul is continuously making improvements, Lancer has an excellent product and Tango Down is developing a polymer mag as well. There may be other companies doing R&D.

I expect the Lancer to be on the list under Option #1 for quality and reliable magazines. I also hope Tango Down makes it. Why? Their products are 1st rate and competition benefits all of us.

Why would you want to buy the 2nd best option, when there a multiple 1st place choices?

GaryXD

03-01-08, 18:12

...how come?
The problem was admitted, corrected, and applied to one shifts' error on a newer SS mag they make. It looks like the company took care of it and didn't do the BS dance blaming anything but their own mag...
I kinda' like that approach to taking care of customers...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

Because the customer had to pay for shipping the mags back twice.