EAA Witness Steel 9mm Review [Archive]

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plouffedaddy

12-04-12, 16:51

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMG_1227.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMG_1218.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Picture12.png

I originally purchase the EAA Steel Witness 9mm (also known as the Tanfoglio T95 in some countries) a year or so ago because the I like the CZ75-type platform, the price was right, and it easily converted to 22lr. Here's what I've found so far:

Pros:
-Reliable. When the gun is in its' original 9mm configuration it's extremely reliable (I've personally never had a malfunction but my buddy borrowed the gun for a week and claimed he had one with his reloads).
-Accurate. Most CZC75 variants are very accurate guns and this pistol is no exception.
-Ergonomic. It feels great in the hand and the extended beaver tail allows you to get your hand very high up on the frame.
-Modularity. Current production EAA Witness guns are built on what was formerly known as the 'large frame.' You can purchase a separate slide assembly (40, 45, 22, ect....) and they will all work on the same frame. The frame is the serial numbered parts so there's no need to go though a FFL.
-Many (not all) of the aftermarket parts developed for the CZ75 will also work on the Witness.
-Standard 1913 rail for mounting lights/lasers/bayonets/whatever else tickles your fancy.
-It has a relatively low bore axis for a DA/SA gun due to the way the slide rides in the frame.
-Weight. The all steel version weighs 33oz unloaded which makes it a pleasure to shoot.
-Ability to be carried 'cocked and locked.' For many shooters this is a system we're used to and operating it is second nature.
-Price. I purchased mine for under $400 with the 22lr kit included. They've gone up since then but they're still very affordable.

Cons:
-No decocker.
-Only comes with 1 magazine
-Finish. It's just a paint type finish that wears relatively easily.
-The trigger has a little more overtravel than I'd like. That said, it does break crisply.

Chronograph numbers:
Winchester Ranger 115gr JHP: 1123fps, 322 ft/lbs energy
Federal HST 124gr JHP: 1145fps, 361 ft/lbs energy
Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P: 1253fps, 432 ft/lbs energy

Here's a video with some shooting, disassembly/assembly, a discussion of the pros/cons, and a chronograph test:

EAA WITNESS 9/22 COMBO HD VIDEO REVIEW LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5xc95-DeLs)

theblackknight

12-04-12, 21:08

I'm really looking at down the line(5 years) moving over to the CZ Shadow/Tangfo for USPSA. Steel framed guns are soo rewarding to shoot.

The tangfo 3 or one of the custom shop CZ's gets 3" groups at 50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DVuQL_M6sA

plouffedaddy

12-05-12, 14:48

m4brian

12-05-12, 16:11

As a CZ steel owner, I like the TF guns - its amazing to me that they have much better triggers in general to the 'real thing', and their upgraded guns are VERY nice.

BTW - to me no decocker is a GOOD thing. 1911 manual of arms is fine.

theblackknight

12-05-12, 18:18

That's some nice shooting there!

That wasnt me btw. Im not matt mink lol.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

RBid

12-05-12, 18:57

Great write up, plouf. I've been looking at getting an EAa/Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match for a bit. Leaning toward .45. The note about the finish makes me hesitate. I prefer highly corrosion resistant finishes.

SPQR476

12-05-12, 20:27

I shot a small frame TZ in 9x21 for USPSA back in the early 90's. I wish they still made that frame. It was awesome.

Kain

12-05-12, 21:53

I need another platform like I need a hole in the head, but If I could find one in .45ACP with .22 conversion it would be a good guy for my father who prefers all steel and big bullets but .22 for practice. May have to start going out and looking around. Have handled the CZ style guns in the past, always ergonomic.

Thanks for the write up.

Bret

01-17-13, 18:25

I have the same 9mm/22LR Combo Witness. I've never actually shot the 9mm slide as I just bought it for shooting 22LR. I already have a small frame all steel 9mm Witness (among others). The 22LR has been 100% reliable, even with cheap ammo. The accuracy is good too.

I bought a 9mm Witness Match and had it converted to 9x23. The Witness 38Super magazines work perfectly. Accuracy is great and it kicks only about as much as a typical 40S&W.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/663/preshooting.jpg

twistedcomrade

01-18-13, 09:56

Are extra mags hard to come buy for these pistols? I know very little about these pistols, but a bud of bud has one and told me mags are hard to come by and I never poked around to see if this is true. No hi-jack intended.

Bret

01-18-13, 10:18

Are extra mags hard to come buy for these pistols?
The answer is that it depends. Witness is the current brand name used by the importer (European American Armory) in the US, but Tanfoglio has been making these pistols in Italy since the late '70's or early 80's. There were a few other importers prior to EAA. The pistols sort of evolved over time. So, there may be problems using current magazines with older pistols. If you have an older pistol, you just have to try. Some people make the assumption that CZ75 magazines will work. Although the CZ75 and Witness designs are similar, most parts do not interchange. This includes the magazines. Sometimes you can get a CZ75 magazine to work in a Witness, but not always. It's a tolerance thing. I just treat them as different magazines. Not worth the trouble of evaluating individual magazines in individual pistols and keeping all the combinations sorted out.

All that said, it's actually not difficult to find magazines for Witness pistols imported over the past 15 years. The thing that throws people off is understanding the difference between a "large frame" and a "small frame". Prior to 2005, the 45ACP, 10mm, and 38Super used the large frame because the cartridges are longer. The 9mm and 40S&W used the small frame because the cartridges are shorter. In 2005 EAA started importing large frame 9mm's and 40S&W's. They did this so someone could simple buy an upper half made for any cartridge and it would work with the appropriate large frame magazine. Since the large frame magazines are too long (front to back of the cartridge) for 9mm and 40S&W, the magazines have an internal spacer that takes up the difference. Adding to the confusion is the fact that EAA still imports small framed 9mm's and 40S&W's.

Both large frame and small frame 9mm and 40S&W magazines are available from EAA and Mec-Gar. Unfortunately, some people don't know about the whole large vs. small frame thing and they end up buying the wrong magazine. This is likely the primary reason that some people think the magazines are hard to come by. Add to this some compatibility with older pistol and some people give up. If you buy a new Witness and understand whether it has a small or large frame, you will not have trouble buying more magazines (current buying panic aside). The key is knowing what to buy.

Gutshot John

01-18-13, 21:18

Is this a dedicated small frame? Or is this a 9mm fitted to a large, so they only have to make one for 9mm/.40-10mm/.45?

The EAAs have a small but dedicated following.

Bret

01-19-13, 07:32

The OP's pistol is a large frame that will accept 9mm, 40S&W,38Super, 10mm and 45ACP upper halves. The 9mm and 40S&W upper halves must be the ones made specifically for the large frame.

Gutshot John

01-19-13, 11:17

The OP's pistol is a large frame that will accept 9mm, 40S&W,38Super, 10mm and 45ACP upper halves. The 9mm and 40S&W upper halves must be the ones made specifically for the large frame.

That's what I figured. I've wanted one of these for a while, a gunsmith/competitor friend of mine calls these "a Ferrari in the rough".

They used to make a dedicated small-frame, and I was hoping they started making them again.

Bret

01-19-13, 12:05

They used to make a dedicated small-frame, and I was hoping they started making them again.
They still import the small framed steel 9mm's and 40S&W's from time to time. They just don't list them on their website for some reason. Here's one I picked up about three years ago for $320 delivered.
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/3359/9mmwitnessfullsizeleftv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/5884/9mmwitnessfullsizeright.jpg

All of the polymer framed 9mm's and 40S&W's that I've seen are small framed.

plouffedaddy

01-19-13, 22:45

They still import the small framed steel 9mm's and 40S&W's from time to time. They just don't list them on their website for some reason. Here's one I picked up about three years ago for $320 delivered.
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/3359/9mmwitnessfullsizeleftv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/5884/9mmwitnessfullsizeright.jpg

All of the polymer framed 9mm's and 40S&W's that I've seen are small framed.

Good find there.

Gary1911A1

01-20-13, 07:20

Magic_Salad0892

01-20-13, 07:37

Would this pistol be recommended over a CZ offering?

SteveL

01-20-13, 07:55

Would this pistol be recommended over a CZ offering?

I've also been wondering how the two compare.

Bret

01-20-13, 09:19

I own a good number of CZ, Witness, and other CZ clones. Each line has a number of different offerings, so it's hard to say what's best. It really just depends on the exact features you're looking for. As far as overall quality goes, I'd say that the CZ and Witness pistols are on par with each other. Some people assume that because the Witness pistols are clones that they will be of less quality. This is certainly not true. When it comes to either of the basic Witness 9mm's above (small or large frame) versus a base model CZ75, I'd have to give the edge to the Witness for two reasons. First, the dot sights on the Witness pistols are about average in size, but the dot sights of the CZ are tiny. I really don't know why CZ contintues to put such small dot sights on their pistols. Second, the CZ will not allow the manual safety to be engaged (on) when the hammer is down. The Witness will. Personally, I don't manually lower the hammer on any of my pistols, but for those who do, this matters.

For those considering a CZ clone, take a look at the Canik line of pistols. I own three of them and I can easily say that they are every bit as good as the CZ and Witness pistols. Here's a picture of their base 9mm model.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/411552796_1.jpg