View Full Version : another stupid killing no gun though !
a lot of photographer sites are talking about this one for posting a pic of a guy the moment before he is killed
supposedly bad journalism now by some cause of who owns the paper
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nightmare_on_subway_tracks_GgvCtkeJj6cTeyxHns2VNP
but shows idiots dont need a gun to kill someone else thats for sure
Man, that is a rough way to have to die.
Moose-Knuckle
12-05-12, 04:03
I've heard of this kind of thing before, years ago in NYC. You would have people shove someone else on the tracks in the same manner simply to watch them die.
The Adélie Penguin is known to push each other off ice shelves into the water to see if the coast is clear for them rest of them. The little guys are then eaten whole by waiting leopard seals.
These types of trains have no purpose other than to kill innocent people. They don't belong in our cities and communities. We need to ban assault trains.
The Adélie Penguin is known to push each other off ice shelves into the water to see if the coast is clear for them rest of them. The little guys are then eaten whole by waiting leopard seals.
that sounds like a Gary Larson cartoon :)
These types of trains have no purpose other than to kill innocent people. They don't belong in our cities and communities.
I thought trains were used every single day by millions of commuters nationwide to get to and from a huge variety of practical destinations?
Edit: So no one gets confused I obviously get your point. But really, commuter trains for an example?
-Guy who pushed Ki-Suck Han onto tracks is a ****ing scumbag
-The photographer (self-described as 'too weak to help') who had time to get out his camera, remove the lens cap, focus, take shot...is also a ****ing scumbag for not even trying to help
-New York Post has done the seemingly impossible by lowering its standards even further
Thoughts? I know I'm glad I got out of the NE when I did. What a sad place. Rest in peace Mr. Han.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/nyregion/suspect-in-fatal-subway-push-is-in-custody.html?_r=0
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/widow-fought-with-husband-before-pushed-by-stranger-onto-ny-subway-tracks-as-train-approached/2012/12/04/44171adc-3e18-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/widow-fought-husband-ny-subway-push-17873975#.UL9VVmflDKc
-The photographer (self-described as 'too weak to help') who had time to get out his camera, remove the lens cap, focus, take shot...is also a ****ing scumbag for not even trying to help
It's possible you have some mis-information here.
He is a reporter. He had his camera in his hand, held by hand strap ( very popular way to carry camera to grab candid shots in public ) DSLR. IOW, it is constantly "at the ready". He was distant from the incident and determined that he might alert the train driver by making his camera flash in the drivers direction. ( as an added note, most modern cameras send out a low power strobe flash prior to the main shutter flash as a means of auto-exposure metering and to auto-reduce the red-eye effect )
He actually ran toward the victim to try to help. At the same time the bad guy was running towards him. So he ran towards the enemy. In doing so he had to back himself to wall for fear of being thrown on the tracks himself.
By being too weak I believe he meant in the time allowed. Which was seconds.
These are his words and you can see the interview on NBC. Also the picture you have seen has been altered in post production to brighten it to where it reveals the content. It was not a composed shot.
He used the tools he trains with every day to try to help.
By being to weak I believe he meant in the time allowed. Which was seconds.
Man Fatally Struck By Subway Train Was On Tracks For More Than One Minute Before Getting Hit, Says Source
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/ki-suk-han-man-fatally-struck-subway-one-minute-tracks_n_2238334.html?utm_hp_ref=new-york&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D241401
So the bad guy, the photog, and the victim where the only people on the platform for over 60 seconds?
All I know is what I just heard the guy describe. If you look at the NY Post photo it's clearly only going to be seconds at best before he is hit by train. So everybody there left the man on the tracks if he was there more than a minute. Certainly several people could have pulled him out if that were the case?
It's possible you have some mis-information here.
He is a reporter. He had his camera in his hand, held by hand strap ( very popular way to carry camera to grab candid shots in public ) DSLR. IOW, it is constantly "at the ready". He was distant from the incident and determined that he might alert the train driver by making his camera flash in the drivers direction. ( as an added note, most modern cameras send out a low power strobe flash prior to the main shutter flash as a means of auto-exposure metering and to auto-reduce the red-eye effect )
He actually ran toward the victim to try to help. At the same time the bad guy was running towards him. So he ran towards the enemy. In doing so he had to back himself to wall for fear of being thrown on the tracks himself.
By being too weak I believe he meant in the time allowed. Which was seconds.
These are his words and you can see the interview on NBC. Also the picture you have seen has been altered in post production to brighten it to where it reveals the content. It was not a composed shot.
He used the tools he trains with every day to try to help.
Well aware. My wife is a photographer. His first instinct was "dude's about to die, I'll take the picture" vs "****, dude's about to die...what can I do?"...and that makes him a scumbag in my book.
Man Fatally Struck By Subway Train Was On Tracks For More Than One Minute Before Getting Hit, Says Source
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/ki-suk-han-man-fatally-struck-subway-one-minute-tracks_n_2238334.html?utm_hp_ref=new-york&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D241401
bingo
So the bad guy, the photog, and the victim where the only people on the platform for over 60 seconds?
All I know is what I just heard the guy describe.
No, and I understand what you're getting at. But the photographer was the only guy who profited from the ordeal. Instead of attempting to assist. He is therefore is subject to more scrutiny.
People who take time to document bad shit that could possibly have been prevented in the first place by just being a human F-ing being & rushing to help are one of the bottom tier of lowlife shitbags. Much like news helicopters that film a family trapped on a roof top in a flood rather than just pick them up & take them to safety.
Furthermore, how the hell does this guy spend an entire minute on the tracks while there's a whole platform of people there? What kind of ****ing people just stand there & watch?
Unreal.
NoveskeFan
12-05-12, 09:07
Furthermore, how the hell does this guy spend an entire minute on the tracks while there's a whole platform of people there? What kind of ****ing people just stand there & watch?
Unreal.
A platform full of victims:( I actually feel a bit of rage that this guy was down in that pit for 60-90 seconds, and no one reached him to help. My prayers to the family of the deceased.
I actually feel a bit of rage that this guy was down in that pit for 60-90 seconds, and no one reached him to help.
I feel more than a bit of rage. A city of sheep!
No, and I understand what you're getting at. But the photographer was the only guy who profited from the ordeal. Instead of attempting to assist. He is therefore is subject to more scrutiny.
Profit was after the fact. Two separate incidents.
If the FACT is indeed that he acted innocently then it's just consequential that his tool was a camera.
Or... If he's a scumbag for selling the picture.. .that's fine.
Scumbag for not helping requires you to deem him a liar and profiteer by default ---in the instant---.
I'm not getting at anything. You are getting at reading his mind thought police style in a complex situation where death is occurring.
If anyone is a scumbag it is the person or persons who, with forethought, decided to license the photo for publication. So.... did he approach the papers or did they approach him? If the latter... do you think he had time to really consider the gravity of licensing it?
Cameras, video, audio are becoming ubiquitous in our lives. Things are going to be seen and heard by society like never before. It doesn't make everyone a scumbag.
If the man had lived and the same story told, people would be saying "wow, what a lucky shot!".
Belmont31R
12-05-12, 09:38
Might not be a good idea to help. If you grabbed the guy, and he came into contact with the 3rd rail you could very well get electrocuted yourself. Very dangerous on those tracks.
I saw a video earlier this year where I guy was down on the tracks, and got electrocuted so bad he caught on fire in front of everyone. I think he was drunk and fell off.
If anyone is a scumbag it is the person or persons who, with forethought, decided to license the photo for publication. So.... did he approach the papers or did they approach him? If the latter... do you think he had time to really consider the gravity of licensing it?
He was freelance, how could the Post have known he had the photo? Unless he purposefully went to them?
Might not be a good idea to help. If you grabbed the guy, and he came into contact with the 3rd rail you could very well get electrocuted yourself. Very dangerous on those tracks.
True that is a risk. But he was struggling already and not getting electrocuted. I'm no hero or perfect person. But the last thing on my mind would've been a picture or anything but trying to assist.
Might not be a good idea to help. If you grabbed the guy, and he came into contact with the 3rd rail you could very well get electrocuted yourself. Very dangerous on those tracks.
True, it is dangerous, but I don't think I could just stand by and watch while he got run over. And, isn't the 3rd rail in the middle, not on the edges?
I just read the story and wondered why any of these losers is in our country in the first place.
Might not be a good idea to help. If you grabbed the guy, and he came into contact with the 3rd rail you could very well get electrocuted yourself. Very dangerous on those tracks.
It's been a while since I've had to endure Shit York City, so my memory is dim, but the hot rail is in the middle of the track. A guy who is conscious and able to crawl to the edge can be pulled to safety. Can't figure out of the guy was awake or passed out from the stories, but one makes note of him trying to crawl to the edge before getting hit.
The problem is that we have a whole generation if people conditioned to be nothing more than good witnesses. They are told to not get involved and the Big Brother will come to their rescue. These "people" did exactly as they were trained. Watched on waiting for someone else to do something.
He was freelance, how could the Post have known he had the photo? Unless he purposefully went to them?
I'm not supporting the licensing of the photo. However it happened.
I'm simply not accepting the point of view that he could have saved the guy simply because he was able to photograph it. BTW, anyone saying to put the camera down. It would take longer to put the camera down than to simply run to save the guy. Those hand straps are robust and the camera is pretty well stuck to your hand. According to him he was moving towards the victim with outstretched arm trying to flash driver of train.
If his story is true... he is possibly the only person that actually tried to help in some manner. Although some apparently waved their arms at train. Clearly no one there was trained to save lives in a dynamic situation such as this. If only someone had a gun and a sugar buzz from a 64 oz Big Gulp this might not have happened. I say it's Bloomberg's fault.
Clearly no one there was trained to save lives in a dynamic situation such as this.
How trained to people have to be to get off their fat asses and give the guy a hand?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=118073
Quit reading lefty blogs that have an agenda ! And taking what they say as news !
If this was a left wing press it would have been defended as artistic or the truth or some other BS
The only reason the left wing blogs are in uproar is who owns the paper
Its sad for sure and shows most people these days dont care about others to wrapped up in their cell phones and things to bother !
IMHO with how liberal NY has gotten shows what a liberal progressive society is like !
Kinda like China and the way it treats people around ! Google up that video of the poor child being run over and run over and then dragged to the side of the road like a dead cat !
This is what many liberals think is a great society !
nineteenkilo
12-05-12, 12:18
I've heard of this kind of thing before, years ago in NYC. You would have people shove someone else on the tracks in the same manner simply to watch them die.
The Adélie Penguin is known to push each other off ice shelves into the water to see if the coast is clear for them rest of them. The little guys are then eaten whole by waiting leopard seals.
Human beings have done 'lesser' forms of this forever. How many times, as a kid, was the 'dare' used to get you to do something? Even better, we would do something completely and utterly idiotic just to see if we would survive/enjoy/remember it later.
I can remember using the small/weak kid in our crowd as a guinea pig for all sorts of stuff. We would always send him into the store to see if they would sell us beer or to steal cigarettes. If he got away with it, us more 'manly' types would them proceed to do the same.
I'm assume some of you have seen this? I'm guessing I'm not alone in thinking
-Guy who pushed Ki-Suck Han onto tracks is a ****ing scumbag
-The photographer (self-described as 'too weak to help') who had time to get out his camera, remove the lens cap, focus, take shot...is also a ****ing scumbag for not even trying to help
-New York Post has done the seemingly impossible by lowering its standards even further
Thoughts? I know I'm glad I got out of the NE when I did. What a sad place. Rest in peace Mr. Han.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/nyregion/suspect-in-fatal-subway-push-is-in-custody.html?_r=0
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/widow-fought-with-husband-before-pushed-by-stranger-onto-ny-subway-tracks-as-train-approached/2012/12/04/44171adc-3e18-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/widow-fought-husband-ny-subway-push-17873975#.UL9VVmflDKc
Remember the movie "The Time Machine" (1960) when Weena fell into the water and was drowning and floated past several Eloi who did nothing to help her but simply watched her float past?
Who knew Welles was so good at predicting human disposition.
This is the city that is at the forefront of the idea the government should do it for you.
This is where the occupy movement started, which to me is a movement about some one else taking responsibility for your actions, and you're well being.
The city is staunchly anti gun, and now has ridiculous knife laws. Again to me this about some one else taking care of you. You can't protect yourself, the government will do it for you. (If they don't accidentally shoot you in the process)
Maybe after this incident there will be an outcry as to why there is not a government employee around to save people from the subway tracks.
Some times you need to hit rock bottom before you can see the error in your ways and reform. NYC is certainly headed down a dark path, hopefully soon enough they will hit rock bottom and re-evaluate their stance on things.
Ultimately I am not surprised no one helped, it seems to be part of the culture there.
I'm not supporting the licensing of the photo. However it happened.
I'm simply not accepting the point of view that he could have saved the guy simply because he was able to photograph it. BTW, anyone saying to put the camera down. It would take longer to put the camera down than to simply run to save the guy. Those hand straps are robust and the camera is pretty well stuck to your hand. According to him he was moving towards the victim with outstretched arm trying to flash driver of train.
If his story is true... he is possibly the only person that actually tried to help in some manner. Although some apparently waved their arms at train. Clearly no one there was trained to save lives in a dynamic situation such as this. If only someone had a gun and a sugar buzz from a 64 oz Big Gulp this might not have happened. I say it's Bloomberg's fault.
I have no idea what your point is. Subway trains weigh ~852,000lbs. No amount of arm-waving or flash-bulbing is going to stop it.
One does not need any amount of training to assist someone in this capacity. Helping him off the tracks would've involved lifting with back and legs, the two largest/strongest muscle groups in our body. And he was alert, so he wouldn't have been dead weight. This isn't some 'cliffhanger' scenario where only someone with rope and a strong forearm could've helped. The amount of work one needed to do would've become fractional if two or three lept to his aide.
Suwannee Tim
12-05-12, 14:35
Sadly the victim did the exact wrong thing. There is plenty of clearance between the bottom of the train and the tracks. The gap between platform and train is two or three inches. If he had laid next to the tracks he would not have been hurt.
At least they got the scum that did it!
Naeem Davis Charged With Murder Of Ki-Suk Han, Queens Father Fatally Pushed Onto Subway Tracks
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/naeem-davis-charged-with-murder_n_2245618.html
Sadly the victim did the exact wrong thing. There is plenty of clearance between the bottom of the train and the tracks. The gap between platform and train is two or three inches. If he had laid next to the tracks he would not have been hurt.
If true, that should be printed on every Subway all in NY.
I have no idea what your point is. Subway trains weigh ~852,000lbs. No amount of arm-waving or flash-bulbing is going to stop it.
One does not need any amount of training to assist someone in this capacity. Helping him off the tracks would've involved lifting with back and legs, the two largest/strongest muscle groups in our body. And he was alert, so he wouldn't have been dead weight. This isn't some 'cliffhanger' scenario where only someone with rope and a strong forearm could've helped. The amount of work one needed to do would've become fractional if two or three lept to his aide.
The -not trained- was a bit of a joke with NYs needing to be taken care of by Bloomberg. But the photog was further away than all those people you see in his picture. He estimated them to be 100-150ft and it looks to be so. He was even further away and had to run towards and pass the bad guy in order to reach the victim. You started this thread by saying he was scum for setting up a camera shot. That was not true. In fact... he may have been one of the few to try ---anything--- to save the guy.
I don't know how to stop a subway train. I doubt anyone on the platform did either. I'll bet the train driver knows how and if they can be stopped. Apparently the people there thought the only timely solution was to stop the train via the driver. The photog estimated he had 10-15 seconds. I doubt I could run 150ft with a 20lb backpack and camera in my hand ( which I could have dropped while running ) and then pull a guy up a 4.5' wall in 10 seconds.
I have not heard how it came to be that no one was near this guy when he went over nor an account of him actually being on the tracks for over a minute. Everything I have heard suggests the photog could not have saved him. I don't know much about subways or why all the people were grouped together and there was a void on the platform where this guy was. Did he run up that way? Did the people run? Both? I just don't know. Haven't heard. You would think that out of all those people someone could have helped him. The photog, whom everyone seems to want to hang, actually has an excuse. I don't know what everyone else excuse is.
Classic case of shoot the messenger.
I'm not supporting the licensing of the photo. However it happened.
I'm simply not accepting the point of view that he could have saved the guy simply because he was able to photograph it. BTW, anyone saying to put the camera down. It would take longer to put the camera down than to simply run to save the guy. Those hand straps are robust and the camera is pretty well stuck to your hand. According to him he was moving towards the victim with outstretched arm trying to flash driver of train.
If his story is true... he is possibly the only person that actually tried to help in some manner. Although some apparently waved their arms at train. Clearly no one there was trained to save lives in a dynamic situation such as this. If only someone had a gun and a sugar buzz from a 64 oz Big Gulp this might not have happened. I say it's Bloomberg's fault.
I'm a photographer, I routinely carry about $5-6000.00 worth of DSLR & lens around my neck, or strapped to my hand. I would not have had any difficulty placing my DSLR down, thats because I simply would have dropped it on the spot as I raced to the victim....
Only in amerika....
I'm a photographer, I routinely carry about $5-6000.00 worth of DSLR & lens around my neck, or strapped to my hand. I would not have had any difficulty placing my DSLR down, thats because I simply would have dropped it on the spot as I raced to the victim....
Only in amerika....
My point exactly
Moose-Knuckle
12-05-12, 17:40
At least they got the scum that did it!
Naeem Davis Charged With Murder Of Ki-Suk Han, Queens Father Fatally Pushed Onto Subway Tracks
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/naeem-davis-charged-with-murder_n_2245618.html
Hate crime! :mad:
Oh wait that's right . . . :o
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others". - George Orwell Animal Farm
I'm a photographer, I routinely carry about $5-6000.00 worth of DSLR & lens around my neck, or strapped to my hand. I would not have had any difficulty placing my DSLR down, thats because I simply would have dropped it on the spot as I raced to the victim....
Only in amerika....
and I believe you. I believe you would do that if you thought you had a chance of saving the man. Now what would you do if you just absolutely knew you had no chance of saving him?
Now what would you do if you just absolutely knew you had no chance of saving him?
"Still try" comes to mind :)
"Still try" comes to mind :)
My thought also.
I understand that....... how?
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/explainer/2012/12/new_york_subway_death_what_to_do_if_you_re_pushed_onto_the_subway_tracks.html
Run as fast as I can, try as hard as I can, etc. You get the picture - never give up until proven wrong. And when someone's LIFE is on the line, I'm gonna rush to help. Even if I think I'm too far away or whatever.
Only way to guarantee a failure, is to never try.
CarlosDJackal
12-05-12, 19:36
I thought trains were used every single day by millions of commuters nationwide to get to and from a huge variety of practical destinations?
Edit: So no one gets confused I obviously get your point. But really, commuter trains for an example?
I think you failed to catch the SARCASM of his post. :rolleyes:
and I believe you. I believe you would do that if you thought you had a chance of saving the man. Now what would you do if you just absolutely knew you had no chance of saving him?
Take my best shot anyway so I know I did what I could.
I feel more than a bit of rage. A city of sheep!
I wish it was just NYC, or just NY, or if it stopped in Massachusetts. But no, these people are everywhere. My buddy's ice house fell through last year. He managed to get out after almost 4 minutes in the drink, to find 10+ people filming the whole thing on their iPhones. They're lucky he was too hypothermic to beat their asses. Nobody so much as offered him their coat or a ride to the hospital, he was picked up by a Fish & Game officer on a snowmobile.
People suck, as sad as this event is I'm utterly unsuprised. I witness this shit every day. I help more stranded motorists a month than I can count, I swear I'm the only guy in the county who goes through the trouble of helping out other people in bad situations...
If it were me dying at that train after someone had just pushed me. I would hope that those that couldn't save me and had the ability to document the scene and catch the bad guy would do so.
I appreciate your sentiment in general but seems impractical in this specific. If you are a photographer with camera in hand and have no chance of saving me, then take some pictures. They might be needed after the fact.
People suck, as sad as this event is I'm utterly unsuprised.
there are some guys out there. we had a State trooper walk over to an argument yesterday. Man and woman I believe. the man proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Sent him to the hospital. the bad guy ran away. someone found him in a storage area and when he ran he tackled him but he still got away. They eventually found him but it took a load of state and city police to get him.
I think you failed to catch the SARCASM of his post. :rolleyes:
Golly, you sure that maybe you missed my sarcasm essentially ridiculing his to an extent? You know, for the goofy analogy he used to emphasize an otherwise serious cause? And this even after I clarified?
Belmont31R
12-05-12, 21:51
WSJ is saying they have the perp in custody on murder charges. 30YO homeless guy.
These types of trains have no purpose other than to kill innocent people. They don't belong in our cities and communities. We need to ban assault trains.
Yes that's right. That's the only correct solution.
Luckily we can all rest easy knowing they've already banned "high capacity" assault beverages.
Probably wasn't right of me to make a joke about that mans death. Sorry
If it were me dying at that train after someone had just pushed me. I would hope that those that couldn't save me and had the ability to document the scene and catch the bad guy would do so.
I appreciate your sentiment in general but seems impractical in this specific. If you are a photographer with camera in hand and have no chance of saving me, then take some pictures. They might be needed after the fact.
From what I've read they didn't catch the guy because of the pictures this photographer snapped, but because of surveillance camera footage and eye witnesses, possibly his own description of the perp since he had to brave getting by him.
IMO the guy rates an air waster rating for not trying to help the guy, even if he couldn't have gotten there in time he should have tried as should everyone on that platform. His rating then takes a nosedive into the deuchebag of the year category for then profiteering from this guys death. One can only hope that when Karma makes the round trip it bitch slaps him hard.
KrampusArms
12-05-12, 22:47
I can just imagine that scene. It really pisses me off. I can see all the douchey metro sexual girly men, all the total losers, plugged in to their collective devices like good little sheep.......
I am willing to bet that there were a handful or more, who didnt even realise what was going on until AFTER it was over, & they looked up from their iphones. All doing the retarded "Im so self important finger touchy" on their f%^&ing touch screens. OBLIVIOUS to their surroundings. F#$K.
I'd not only try to save the guy by offering my arm to hoist him up, I would try to catch up to that RAT that pushed him on the tracks & whoop his face inside out. I would be seething.
These friggin iphones/pods/pads bring out the mindless drone in SO MANY people, its incredible. Everywhere I go! Everywhere.
I go on walks at night, & there was this young kid 150 yards ahead of me on the trail. I could see a little light glowing, & the whole time, hes walking with head slunk down, the arm & finger clutched in by his abdomen doing the "touchy screen s^%t". Finger banging his "precious" like a smiegel. He was walking so slow & with the saddest most lazy ass posture Ive ever seen that I ended up catching up to him. I was walking at a normal pace, & it wasnt until I was damn near breathing down his neck until he detected my presence. I said "Excuse me" & he turns his head, looks at me, stumbles, SAYS NOTHING, & looks back to fixate on his device as I walked by. Some 16-17 year old kid walking at 1100 hours, alone, not paying attention to jack squat. He could have been shanked & robbed, & then dragged in the bushes to rot before he had a freaking iota or inkling of clue!
Our society is screwed.
How trained to people have to be to get off their fat asses and give the guy a hand?
Reminds me of this story. http://www.newser.com/story/119849/man-dies-in-sf-bay-while-firefighters-police-watch.html
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