View Full Version : Vickers and Daniel Defense finished?
Daniel Defense is quite capable of producing a quality rifle regardless of LAV's official affiliation, but that seems to have ended. BCM appears to be listed instead. Is it over?
Perhaps DD asked him to leave....LAV did have a habit of shooting up/blowing up their merchandise. :p
http://www.tac-tv.com/videos/tac-tv-episode-6-grenade-launchers.jpg
"Buffoni....hand over the guns!"
All jest aside, I'm sure he'll be along to make an announcement if he feels so inclined.
Perhaps DD asked him to leave....LAV did have a habit of shooting up/blowing up their merchandise. :p
All jest aside, I'm sure he'll be along to make an announcement if he feels so inclined.
Ha, that's funny! Still, though, that new video with what's his name is some dumb looking shit! "Let me jab my rifle's muzzle into a cinder block and then hurtle some hay bales. That'll make me super tactical! Watch out Costa, here comes Rob Pincus!"
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfjdriMS1w
Ha, that's funny! Still, though, that new video with what's his name is some dumb looking shit! "Let me jab my rifle's muzzle into a cinder block and then hurtle some hay bales. That'll make me super tactical! Watch out Costa, here comes Rob Pincus!"
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfjdriMS1w
That jumping is hilarious to watch...lol
Doc. Holiday
12-06-12, 17:37
Well, Larry has been talking more about BCM lately than Daniel Defense.
GeorgiaBoy
12-06-12, 17:43
Perhaps ask him the SME section?
No matter your opinion on the subject matter, that video would be 100x better with the 6 million dollar man sound effect during the slow motion segments, particularly the cinder block and hay bale parts.
Doc. Holiday
12-06-12, 17:51
Ha, that's funny! Still, though, that new video with what's his name is some dumb looking shit! "Let me jab my rifle's muzzle into a cinder block and then hurtle some hay bales. That'll make me super tactical! Watch out Costa, here comes Rob Pincus!"
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfjdriMS1w
Watching that video totally just tickled my taint...
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfjdriMS1w
Mad ninja skills right there. :neo:
I usually stay out of this crap, but for heaven's sake DD is better off without any spokesperson than they are with this Pincus fellow. This is coming from a DD customer and fan.
GeorgiaBoy
12-06-12, 18:05
I don't think we need another Pincus-hate thread.
It was discussed heavily here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=117399
^this. A severe marketing error on DD's part.
I usually stay out of this crap, but for heaven's sake DD is better off without any spokesperson than they are with this Pincus fellow. This is coming from a DD customer and fan.
Amen.
Too bad they couldn't have him shooting while hanging upside down.
Interesting choice by DD.
NoveskeFan
12-06-12, 18:14
For those who haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJfjdriMS1w
:blink::bad: Pure speculation, but I wonder if maybe LAV saw the writing on the wall?
No matter your opinion on the subject matter, that video would be 100x better with the 6 million dollar man sound effect during the slow motion segments, particularly the cinder block and hay bale parts.
I had zero plans to post in this thread....right up until I read that. I almost choked on my Guinness and that would have been a tragedy all in itself. All I can picture now is that sound when he jumps over the bales. Thank you for the laugh sir.
I usually stay out of this crap, but for heaven's sake DD is better off without any spokesperson than they are with this Pincus fellow. This is coming from a DD customer and fan.
I agree with you completely. DD has always been on my want list because of their quality but geez that video with the cinder block and hay bales was a little out there.
:blink::bad: Pure speculation, but I wonder if maybe LAV saw the writing on the wall?
I'm not tracking.
Did DD plan to drop him or something?
I should add I have never trained with Pincus. I am really in no positon to assail his methods or question the value of his training etc. I simply don't know about that, so I'll leave that to others who have experience in that regard. Unfortunately, the video does not lend an air of credibility to Pincus who is a relative unknown for me.
I have trained with Mr. Vickers on two separate occasions and can unequivocally state it was money well spent. My experiences aside, Mr. Vickers' reputation is well established.
NoveskeFan
12-06-12, 18:32
I'm not tracking.
Did DD plan to drop him or something?
I was speculating on if LAV knew that DD was going to add Pincus as a spokesman, and thus started to distance himself from DD. Like I said, pure speculation. For all I know, Vickers is still affiliated and hangs out with Pincus.
Singlestack Wonder
12-06-12, 18:33
Wonder if the average price increase of $200 per rifle is due to DD paying Pincus to jump haybails? I'm sure it is not due to the current obama gun grab hype. :rolleyes:
I've been very impressed with LAV. He really knows his shit, and Pincus is about a Cheeseburger short of a happy meal.
Nope, he'd just run those ****ers over...which would be just as effective.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-06-12, 19:11
Maybe in the next DD video, Pincus can throw a student's gun across the range.
Daniel Defense is quite capable of producing a quality rifle regardless of LAV's official affiliation, but that seems to have ended. BCM appears to be listed instead. Is it over?
The weapon industry tends to rotate pretty quickly, a couple years is pretty typical before one side or the other is hankering for something different. Par for the course.
Mauser KAR98K
12-06-12, 19:46
Hmm, Costa gone Zombie, and DD gone this? Is this a trend?
Hmm, Costa gone Zombie, and DD gone this? Is this a trend?
Have to appeal to the masses. Most new shooters are into the ninja zombie crap.
I was speculating on if LAV knew that DD was going to add Pincus as a spokesman, and thus started to distance himself from DD. Like I said, pure speculation. For all I know, Vickers is still affiliated and hangs out with Pincus.
I wasn't calling you out. I just haven't been following the industry latley. I figured I missed something everyone knew.
To say DD is making a marketing mistake is an understatement. This new ninja-zombie hunter craze garbage and those capitalizing on it (Pincus) are discrediting the firearms training community. True PROFESSIONALS like Mr. Vickers have worked long and hard building extensive careers that support their training. These new fangled (is that even a true word?) "training systems", i.e. Pincus "combat focus" are made up theoretical garbage. I choose to spend my $$ on the real deal (i.e. Mr VIckers, Mr. Hackethorn, Mr. Lamb, Mr. Howe). This direction DD is taking has inspired me to burn my DD t-shirt and steer away from their products. Not that their quality is not what is used to be, but I cannot support a company taking the route they have chosen. All the best to Mr. Vickers as I know in the end, he will come out on top representing another, more responsible company!
LowandLeft
12-06-12, 20:09
Anyone know where I can find Pincus's training schedule? :dirol:
GeorgiaBoy
12-06-12, 20:13
To say DD is making a marketing mistake is an understatement. This new ninja-zombie hunter craze garbage and those capitalizing on it (Pincus) are discrediting the firearms training community. True PROFESSIONALS like Mr. Vickers have worked long and hard building extensive careers that support their training. These new fangled (is that even a true word?) "training systems", i.e. Pincus "combat focus" are made up theoretical garbage. I choose to spend my $$ on the real deal (i.e. Mr VIckers, Mr. Hackethorn, Mr. Lamb, Mr. Howe). This direction DD is taking has inspired me to burn my DD t-shirt and steer away from their products. Not that their quality is not what is used to be, but I cannot support a company taking the route they have chosen. All the best to Mr. Vickers as I know in the end, he will come out on top representing another, more responsible company!
Before you light the match, did you read the thread I linked too?
This is right from the horses mouth:
Rob Pincus is not an employee of Daniel Defense. We work with a production company on many projects to include promotional videos and commercials. This production company produces many shows for the Outdoor Channel and the Sportsmans Channel. Rob is the talent/spokesperson for an 11 Part series which promotes our products.
I think after this miniseries is done we won't be hearing much about Rob again. I think DD has received enough negative feedback already and realized it was a mistake.
__________________
Moose-Knuckle
12-06-12, 20:15
Well shit now I have to put all those DD LPKs and BCGs that I've squirreled away on the EE. :jester:
True PROFESSIONALS like Mr. Vickers have worked long and hard building extensive careers that support their training.
How many people who buy a DD carbine, or any other AR15 are actually going to take a single training class? Never mind from a MIL or LE background instructor, I mean ANY course or formal training class?
Guns-up.50
12-06-12, 20:23
So does this mean there will be Pincus signature rifle????: baaaaaaaaa
So does this mean there will be Pincus signature rifle????: baaaaaaaaa
Comes with FREE jump rope.....
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/316857_256389757745947_1155347638_n.jpg
ZEEEEEEEOW * Million Dollar Man hover sound.......
NeoNeanderthal
12-06-12, 20:42
christ. diggin the skate shoes to.
If DD is going to pull any association with Pincus due to negative feedback, good for them. They should listen to the masses, that is just good business. Whether Pincus is or is not am employee of DD is inconsequantial. They associated him with their brand. A business needs to be very careful to protect their name. At the end of the day, that sells more product than anything else. Right or wrong, that is the way it is. Hopefully they have seen the error in their ways and get back on track. They (DD) make a good product, no one disputes that, but their name has suffered a negative blow to those that choose to not be fooled by "the hype" of haystack jumping ninjas attacking cinderblocks! If I am to be labeled a Vickers "fan boy", I can live with that, heck, I would be proud to tote that label. I base my purchases on my own experience, research, as well as the recommendations of credible sources.
I try not to get into the whole "instructors" discussions on any forums but being a DD owner I was disappointed that Pincus is now representing them. There are much better representatives that they could have gone with to still get their message across for these videos.
Daniel Defense is quite capable of producing a quality rifle regardless of LAV's official affiliation, but that seems to have ended. BCM appears to be listed instead. Is it over?
Instead of causing speculation, why not just ask him? He has his own SME section.
mastiffhound
12-08-12, 18:45
I was laughing at first. The whole video reminded me of my childhood and all the armed forces action movies that I loved so much. In this day and age this is kind of sad. I wouldn't guess that DD needed this kind of spokesperson:confused:. Maybe they have been watching too much Expendables, Commando, or Universal Soldier. Why not get Schwarzenegger ,Willis , or Stallone. If you are going to go strip mall ninja, go all the way!
Wait, what the hell did I just watch?
This industry is bizarre.
Is this a thread about who was sitting with whose ex in the lunchroom?
I honestly have difficulty taking anyone seriously who doesn't run BUIS.
Go through the arms room at 2/75. Lots of rifles with no backup sights.
Watching that, all I could think was, "Good for him, he is physically fit to jump up on a trunk of a sedan, or clear a hay bale, just not smart enough to find another route."
I'll grant that DD is top of the line quality, almost a decent price for their products. Promotional videos like that rarely if ever are a deciding factor for me - other than to take the spokesperson seriously as a SME". Even their torture test video sold me more on Aimpoint than their rifle. I'd have taken that more seriously if they had done the same thing to three other brands at the same time.
I can agree that I would not have Pincus on my list of instructors after watching that.
So, if LAV is done with DD or vise-versa, it's a small matter. They still have a good product. If they start cutting costs in house and dropping quality standards, then that is not a small matter.
FChen17213
12-08-12, 22:30
I know it is sad and hilarious at the same time but I bet if Sylvester Stallone and Jason Statham supported and endorsed DPMS, DPMS's sales probably would increase a lot. You have to understand that the average Joe consumer knows nothing about guns, does not shoot guns, and learns from Hollywood. It is important to keep in mind who the audience is.
Magic_Salad0892
12-08-12, 22:31
Watching that, all I could think was, "Good for him, he is physically fit to jump up on a trunk of a sedan, or clear a hay bale, just not smart enough to find another route."
Lmfao.
On a side note. Why does he use the chargine handle during a reload? Or punch that innocent cinder block?
Just minding my buisiness and being a cind-- OOOH **** OWCH I'M BROKEN. ... Asshole...
Rob lost some major man points with that hay bale jump, and DD just shot up the corny meter.
On a side note. Why does he use the chargine handle during a reload? .
Yeah caught that too, among other things. Trainer preference. Just went through the same thing in my most recent class I took (why doing a thing one way, when another way works as good or better). Decided that this is his class, this is his method, I have the option to do it in a different way I was taught.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-08-12, 23:14
Is this a thread about who was sitting with whose ex in the lunchroom?
Agreed, 3 pages of junk that belongs in the GD.
Magic_Salad0892
12-08-12, 23:36
Yeah caught that too, among other things. Trainer preference. Just went through the same thing in my most recent class I took (why doing a thing one way, when another way works as good or better). Decided that this is his class, this is his method, I have the option to do it in a different way I was taught.
I've heard that he's a fan of the "one muscle movement for everything" argument...
But I dunno... that's dumb.
When I'm being shot at, I want the gun working now. Not later. Plus, the thing that sucks about malfs is that not only does the gun stop working, but the motion it takes to clear it sucks, and we work to make our malf clearances faster. So why would you slow down a reload?
Familiarity is the enemy of progress.
bluejackets92fs
12-09-12, 00:36
So much spilled Kool-Aid in this thread. I never understand why people give two shits about this. Who gives a flying **** who endorses who? Why don't you guys just focus on buying products based on reputation and quality instead of who is doing their advertisements? That would be like me refusing to buy a Ford F-150 because I hate Dennis Leary. Jesus, some of you people are dense.
Even if Pincus is their new endorser and Vickers is out, I'm not going to sell my Daniel Defense and buy the next thing LAV endorses, whether it be BCM, Colt, or someone else.
This thread is so full of fashion queens, it's embarrassing. Never even heard of Pincus until this thread.
"Like OMG! Did you hear Sarah Jessica Parker is no longer wearing Jimmy Choo's?! Yeah, I hard Kim Kardashian did a commercial for Jimmy Choo. Ewww! Hate har! I'm SO taking my Jimmy Choo's to Goodwill toe-ma-ROE.":haha:
This thread is so full of fashion queens, it's embarrassing. Never even heard of Pincus until this thread.
"Like OMG! Did you hear Sarah Jessica Parker is no longer wearing Jimmy Choo's?! Yeah, I hard Kim Kardashian did a commercial for Jimmy Choo. Ewww! Hate har! I'm SO taking my Jimmy Choo's to Goodwill toe-ma-ROE.":haha:
Whats a Jimmy Choo?
Agreed tho, never heard of Pincus either. Not a fan of the vid, but as long as my DD continues to exceed my expectations I have no qualms.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-09-12, 09:18
This thread is so full of fashion queens, it's embarrassing. Never even heard of Pincus until this thread.
"Like OMG! Did you hear Sarah Jessica Parker is no longer wearing Jimmy Choo's?! Yeah, I hard Kim Kardashian did a commercial for Jimmy Choo. Ewww! Hate har! I'm SO taking my Jimmy Choo's to Goodwill toe-ma-ROE.":haha:
After posting that, who's the fashion queen in this thread again???:sarcastic:
I honestly have difficulty taking anyone seriously who doesn't run BUIS.
I honestly have difficulty taking anyone serious whose avatar is a chick in a gas mask grabbing her own tits. :p
:thank_you2:
So how many guys here are going to sell their DD rifles & buy whatever the next brand that Vickers endorses?
Magic_Salad0892
12-09-12, 11:36
I honestly have difficulty taking anyone serious whose avatar is a chick in a gas mask grabbing her own tits. :p
:thank_you2:
I don't. Shows the man has good taste, and health in mind.
So how many guys here are going to sell their DD rifles & buy whatever the next brand that Vickers endorses?
Not me. That's why I put the disclaimer in my original post about DD making a quality product regardless of who endorses them.
Regarding putting this in the SME forum, I thought it might be rude to put Larry on the spot like that in case he couldn't answer the question because of a contract issue. I thought by posting it here, Larry would have the opportunity to respond if he wanted, but also others who might have industry knowledge on the subject could respond.
Time to go against the grain again, at least a little bit.
The video is actually impressive in a very real way. Besides showing a level of physical fitness that some would aspire to accurate shooting is more difficult following physical exertion.
Having said that, the video was more a promotion of Pincus and the product was almost secondary. I also think that many of the physical activities are needlessly extraneous and few obstacles will need to be navigated in such theatrical manner.
And I agree, somebody really does need to re edit that video with the theme song and sound effects from the Six Million Dollar Man. That would be hilarious.
So how many guys here are going to sell their DD rifles & buy whatever the next brand that Vickers endorses?
I bought my Daniel Defense rifles because of Larry Vickers and his tv show but I have no plans on selling them.
I wouldn't have bought them if my only knowledge of them was some guy on youtube thrusting one through a concrete block and jumping over stuff.
If (Big IF) someone like Vickers endorsed DPMS, thier sales would boom as well. Half the guys on the forums would be fighting to the death defending the honor of that company weather they produce shit products or not. John Force endorses Valvoline, Michael Jordan endorses Nike, etc., etc. Some people follow their heroes around & buy anything they endorse regardless of the quality.
Well, the guy is in great shape. I dare say that few of us could match his conditioning.
FWIW, the Army has a rich tradition of making recruits run obstacle courses. Those take on a whole new meaning when run with a weapon or IBA/IOTV. Thus, there is some practical purpose for that skillset and ability.
theblackknight
12-09-12, 15:51
Half the guys on the forums would be fighting to the death defending the honor of that company weather they produce shit products or not.
Kinda like the bazzilian page thread on this forum with people buying troy rifles for like 850$.
Well, the guy is in great shape. I dare say that few of us could match his conditioning.
FWIW, the Army has a rich tradition of making recruits run obstacle courses. Those take on a whole new meaning when run with a weapon or IBA/IOTV. Thus, there is some practical purpose for that skillset and ability.
No one really has a problem with Rob's marketing or bid'ness savvy.It's his credentials really.
I think everyone here is being too harsh by failing to consider how much more difficult it would really be to clear the hay bales with a Colt or any other variant. And few if any other manufacturers can boast of an ability to decimate a paper target at point blank range.
DD makes a top of the line gun and I plan on owning one within the next year (if I don't go .308 next), but this type of advertisement is silly.
I think this video boils down to the fact that if you want your audience to take your product seriously, the promotions you make for your product should be serious. This would be like Ferrari hiring Dennis Anderson to take an Enzo over some dirt ramps. The end users of Ferraris are not interested in this feat.
CarlosDJackal
12-09-12, 19:21
You guys actually buy your products based on who endorsed it? Really? :confused:
GeorgiaBoy
12-09-12, 19:32
Vickers has, in essence, "endorsed" Double Star a few times in his TV shows.
Doesn't mean I'm going out to buy a Double Star.
LAV was a good voice for DD when they were still just starting to break the "big ice" of the industry. They don't need him as much anymore, their name and reputation is already out there.
You guys actually buy your products based on who endorsed it? Really? :confused:
If it wasn't for Bruce Willis I might not own a MP5.
:D
Larry Vickers
12-09-12, 23:27
I figured it was time for me to speak up since people like Georgiaboy feel the need to speak on my behalf - for the record I never 'endorsed' Doublestar; we did a torture test on one of their guns on an earlier show and the gun did quite well - which shows the inherent quality of the M4 design - which has been confirmed with the torture tests on DD guns after that
I for one found those tests interesting as I had no idea how well the M4 would hold up as we pushed everything to an extreme - and the gun held up much better than I would have expected
Daniel Defense will return as a presenting sponsor along with BCM for season three of TacTV - as always we involved with the show appriciate their support along with all the other sponsors; without them the show would not be possible
My direct involvement as a design consultant and company spokesman will end Dec 31st, 2012 - I wish Daniel Defense all the best as they move forward as a company
I hope that clears up the situation regarding me and Daniel Defense for everyone
LAV
I figured it was time for me to speak up since people like Georgiaboy feel the need to speak on my behalf - for the record I never 'endorsed' Doublestar; we did a torture test on one of their guns on an earlier show and the gun did quite well - which shows the inherent quality of the M4 design - which has been confirmed with the torture tests on DD guns after that
I for one found those tests interesting as I had no idea how well the M4 would hold up as we pushed everything to an extreme - and the gun held up much better than I would have expected
Daniel Defense will return as a presenting sponsor along with BCM for season three of TacTV - as always we involved with the show appriciate their support along with all the other sponsors; without them the show would not be possible
My direct involvement as a design consultant and company spokesman will end Dec 31st, 2012 - I wish Daniel Defense all the best as they move forward as a company
I hope that clears up the situation regarding me and Daniel Defense for everyone
LAV
Thanks.
Now someone close this stupid thread.
Since Larry has now made the "official" statement we can end this session of Dear Abby and move on to more important issues.
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