Home invader calls 911 on homeowner.

[GeorgiaBoy]

Guy breaks into a house. The homeowner with a gun that isn't quick on the trigger follows the home invader out to his car and waits for police to arrive. Meanwhile, the home invader calls 911 on the HOMEOWNER for having a gun pointed at him.


"I'm out in the country somewhere and some guy's got a gun on me," he said on the call.

Funny stuff...


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/06/texas-burglary-suspect-calls-11-on-homeowner-with-gun/

[montanadave]

I can't understand why the homeowner, who apparently was holding the guy at gunpoint and had instructed him to drop his keys, allowed the scumbag to make a 911 call.

It turned out OK in this case but it could have ended very differently. If the police roll up at night and see a guy pointing a gun at someone else, I don't want there to be any confusion as to who the good guy is and who the bad guy is.

[Honu]

so he had bad intentions ? most likely when he gets out his next robbery he will carry through and know he has to be armed !

a guy like that will repeat the breaks in and they will escalate

I hope he does not come back to get even with the home owner !

[SteyrAUG]

This is why you just shoot people.

:D

[montanadave]

This is why you just shoot people.

:D

When I read that story, I was thinking he was damn lucky he chose that house as opposed to yours.

[Honu]

good thing he did not meet a guy coming home from a wedding or some guy sitting in his chair in the basement waiting for thanksgiving dinner !

[5pins]

I can't understand why the homeowner, who apparently was holding the guy at gunpoint and had instructed him to drop his keys, allowed the scumbag to make a 911 call.



I’m not sure what he was supposed to do, shoot him.

Personally I don’t think it’s a good idea to follow someone out of your house. If someone breaks into your house and makes it back out then the home owner should just secure the home and call the police and let them handle it.

[Business_Casual]

good thing he did not meet a guy coming home from a wedding or some guy sitting in his chair in the basement waiting for thanksgiving dinner !

That made me think of "Saving Silverman." Good times.

bc

[markm]

I'd have lectured him on staking gas keys, and showed him the tard Chart.

[GeorgiaBoy]

I'd have lectured him on staking gas keys, and showed him the tard Chart.

Tell him to get rid of his LWRCi. Or, better yet, sell it to you. For "proper disposal".


Into your secret closet.

[Vash1023]

i love that he told the son
"you dont got to kill him just shoot him in the legs"

go texas

[Sensei]

I’m not sure what he was supposed to do, shoot him.

Personally I don’t think it’s a good idea to follow someone out of your house. If someone breaks into your house and makes it back out then the home owner should just secure the home and call the police and let them handle it.

Agreed. This was tactically and legally (in most states) a risky situation. Tactically because he left the security of his home and stood in front of a car with a handgun. Bad idea #1. There is a reason why God gave us long guns - use them.

Bad idea #2 came when he closed the distance to take the keys. The idea of a defensive encounter is to create space to at least 20 ft and work angles/cover - not get into a potential grappling situation with an opponent who may produce a knife or gun. In addition, many of these guys work in pairs and I have no plans to roll with a guy while his buddy takes my flank.

I'm not sure about TX, but you can't shoot a fleeing suspect who is not in your home in most states. I was especially curious about his instructions to his son - "Shoot 'em in the legs, you don't have to kill 'em." Bad idea #3. If I'm pulling a trigger, the first shot is aimed center mass. There is a reason why it is called lethal force and not wounding force.

Fortunately, the good guys won this one.

[TAZ]

Glad it worked out Ok for the homeowner, but I agree with Sensei's comments re the tactical aptitude of the guy. TX has some goofy laws wrt what one can get away with after dark in dealing with criminals, but IMO they aren't worth testing unless you absolutely have to.

[SOWT]

Agreed. This was tactically and legally (in most states) a risky situation. Tactically because he left the security of his home and stood in front of a car with a handgun. Bad idea #1. There is a reason why God gave us long guns - use them.

Bad idea #2 came when he closed the distance to take the keys. The idea of a defensive encounter is to create space to at least 20 ft and work angles/cover - not get into a potential grappling situation with an opponent who may produce a knife or gun. In addition, many of these guys work in pairs and I have no plans to roll with a guy while his buddy takes my flank.

I'm not sure about TX, but you can't shoot a fleeing suspect who is not in your home in most states. I was especially curious about his instructions to his son - "Shoot 'em in the legs, you don't have to kill 'em." Bad idea #3. If I'm pulling a trigger, the first shot is aimed center mass. There is a reason why it is called lethal force and not wounding force.

Fortunately, the good guys won this one.

1. Home owner could have shot him, and the guy is lucky he didn't break into my house.
2. The story says he told his wife to call 9-1-1; so they got two calls and knew the good guy had a weapon.

[Sensei]

1. Home owner could have shot him, and the guy is lucky he didn't break into my house.

Not in any of the 5 states (VA, OH, NC, NY, GA) that I've ever lived in, although TX may be different in this aspect of the law. Once the intruder is out of your home and trying to leave, you cannot use lethal force to detain them in most jurisdictions.

There were other big mistakes on the owner's part. Perhaps the biggest mistake was to sleep with the doors unlocked, WTF.

[Moose-Knuckle]

For those who are not familiar with the case of Joe Horn.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374223,00.html

TX home owner who shot and killed two illegal aliens with felony records in the back fleeing his neighbor’s house at night was cleared by a TX grand jury.

[Sensei]

For those who are not familiar with the case of Joe Horn.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374223,00.html

TX home owner who shot and killed two illegal aliens with felony records in the back fleeing his neighbor’s house at night was cleared by a TX grand jury.

The circumstances of the Horn case have nothing to do with the original topic of this thread. The burglars were not fleeing when they were shot, and Horn's attorney specifically argued that his client was threatened when he discharged his weapon. This is supported by eye-witness testimony from a plain-clothes detective who watched the shooting from his vehicle as he arrived on the scene. The first burglar was shot as he ran toward Horn, and then angled toward the street at the last second causing the shot to the back/side. The second burglar was then immediately engaged as he moved onto Horn's property despite being told to freeze. Although the preliminary stories were that Horn also shot this one in the back, the autopsy report was unable to conclusively determine the direction of the shot. The bottom line was Horn acted appropriately because he warned the burglars to freeze, and engaged when they continued to pose a threat by running toward him or moving onto his property.

My problem with all of these cases that we have discussed (Horn, Zimmerman, Gerow, et al) is that firearms have caused untrained or poorly trained partitioners to take stupid risks. They each dramatically overestimated their ability to control the situation because they had a gun. It is by blind luck that none of this morons have not gotten themselves injured or killed. A few of these people will pay for their mistakes with jail time while their cases are adjudicated and possibly felony convictions. Thus, pardon me if I don't celebrate the luck of the untrained, or cite these cases as reasons why more clueless people who refuse to train should buy a gun.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The circumstances of the Horn case have nothing to do with the original topic of this thread. The burglars were not fleeing when they were shot, and Horn's attorney specifically argued that his client was threatened when he discharged his weapon. This is supported by eye-witness testimony from a plain-clothes detective who watched the shooting from his vehicle as he arrived on the scene. The first burglar was shot as he ran toward Horn, and then angled toward the street at the last second causing the shot to the back/side. The second burglar was then immediately engaged as he moved onto Horn's property despite being told to freeze. Although the preliminary stories were that Horn also shot this one in the back, the autopsy report was unable to conclusively determine the direction of the shot. The bottom line was Horn acted appropriately because he warned the burglars to freeze, and engaged when they continued to pose a threat by running toward him or moving onto his property.

And . . . the shoot was outside his home on his and his neighbor’s property. In TX "property" is a key thing not so in some other states. Also the fact that his neighbor asked him to watch his place while he was away was another factor in the justifiable shoot.

The reason I bring this case up is 1.) many have never heard of it, 2.) a lot of folks get their panties in a wad when some poor felon is shot by home owners ESPECIALLY outside the residence much less a third party’s property, and 3.) TX law was brought up several times in this thread by several different members.


My problem with all of these cases that we have discussed (Horn, Zimmerman, Gerow, et al) is that firearms have caused untrained or poorly trained partitioners to take stupid risks. They each dramatically overestimated their ability to control the situation because they had a gun. It is by blind luck that none of this morons have not gotten themselves injured or killed. A few of these people will pay for their mistakes with jail time while their cases are adjudicated and possibly felony convictions. Thus, pardon me if I don't celebrate the luck of the untrained, or cite these cases as reasons why more clueless people who refuse to train should buy a gun.

I would surmise that the vast majority of gun owners in the US buy guns for home defense. They can't all be Larry Vickers or Kyle Lamb. How many gun owners in general seek professional training? M4C is a very small percentage of the gun cultural here in the US. While I agree with your point on dumb asses and guns there are far more dumb asses with driver licenses that kill far more people every day behind the wheel of an automobile than there are home owners with guns and their victims usually are not felons.

Edit to add:

One more thing I would like to add to the above is I'd rather see these guys defend their home, their neighbor's homes, and their communites than fall victim to the criminal class in our society.

[Sensei]

And . . . the shoot was outside his home on his and his neighbor’s property. In TX "property" is a key thing not so in some other states. Also the fact that his neighbor asked him to watch his place why he was away was another factor in the justifiable shoot.

The reason I bring this case up is 1.) many have never heard of it, 2.) a lot of folks get their panties in a wad when some poor felon is shot by home owners ESPECIALLY outside the residence much less a third party’s property, and 3.) TX law was brought up several times in this thread by several different members.



I would surmise that the vast majority of gun owners in the US buy guns for home defense. They can't all be Larry Vickers or Kyle Lamb. How many gun owners in general seek professional training? M4C is a very small percentage of the gun cultural here in the US. While I agree with your point on dumb asses and guns there are far more dumb asses with driver licenses that kill far more people every day behind the wheel of an automobile than there are home owners with guns and their victims usually are not felons.

Both of the burglars were on Horn's property when they were shot, and he was not charged because he convinced a GJ that he was in reasonable fear of his life. He also had supporting witness statements from the police that at least one burglar made aggressive movements despite multiple warnings to freeze. I'm sorry, but I see no parallels other than both events happening in TX.

As for training, with great rights come great responsibility. Nobody on this forum is Vickers or Lamb, so that is not the standard that I expect. I do expect gun owners to know the basic principles of self defense if they plan to employ a weapon. Finally, we both know that population and sampling bias shoot that firearms vs car analogy all to hell (i.e. the absolute prevelance of cars being actually used is much greater than guns sitting in safes or drawers).

[Moose-Knuckle]

Both of the burglars were on Horn's property when they were shot, and he was not charged because he convinced a GJ that he was in reasonable fear of his life. He also had supporting witness statements from the police that at least one burglar made aggressive movements despite multiple warnings to freeze. I'm sorry, but I see no parallels other than both events happening in TX.

Mr. Horn observed the burglars exit his neighbors house when he made the decision to act, that is what started the whole ball rolling. I'm not sure how many other states allow a third party to protect one's home/property with deadly force.


As for training, with great rights come great responsibility.

Finally, we both know that population and sampling bias shoot that firearms vs car analogy all to hell (i.e. the absolute prevelance of cars being actually used is much greater than guns sitting in safes or drawers).

Driving an automobile is a great responsibility and the fact that there are more means there is a greater chance of a dumb ass injuring and or killing someone. You have mentioned in a previous thread (on the same subject matter) their needs to be some regulation of law abiding citizens from personally owning firearms who shouldn't. My family and I are at greater risk from a dumb ass behind the wheel of a car than a dumb ass home owner with a gun.

We can debate semantics but at the end of the day the home owner in this case did not shoot the burglar, the burglar did not injure or kill the home owner and his family, and the subject was held at gun point till LE arrived and took him into custody. I say that is a win for the good guys.