View Full Version : Another public shooting, this time in a Portland mall.
BrigandTwoFour
12-11-12, 18:16
Seems like we can't get a victory (Chicago decision) without some other asshole trying to get famous.
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2012/12/clackamas_town_center_shooting.html
Whiskey_Bravo
12-11-12, 18:41
No kidding. Watching it on fox right now. Dude in camo with an "ar15" possibly wearing body armor, 60 + rounds fired before his gun jammed. Reporting 2 dead right now.
Moose-Knuckle
12-11-12, 18:44
Dude in camo with an "ar15" possibly wearing body armor, 60 + rounds fired before his gun jammed.
Must have been a Bushmaster . . . thankfully.
TacticalSledgehammer
12-11-12, 18:50
I was thinking dpms lol
Cynically, the first thought that comes to mind is: guess the powers that be couldn't allow us a single full day to enjoy a victory in Illinois over their unconstitutional concealed carry ban (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story).
BrigandTwoFour
12-11-12, 19:14
Cynically, the first thought that comes to mind is: guess the powers that be couldn't allow us a single full day to enjoy a victory in Illinois over their unconstitutional concealed carry ban (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story).
I thought the same thing.
Mauser KAR98K
12-11-12, 19:20
It has been a pretty violent day today in America.
Union thugs toppling a tent in Michigan with people inside. And now this. Maybe the Mayans were right.
This is not going to go well for us.
What kind of concealed carry laws does oregon have?
30 cal slut
12-11-12, 19:31
What kind of concealed carry laws does oregon have?
it's shall issue except for non-residents.
Heavy Metal
12-11-12, 19:31
The Mall is a Gun Free Zone.
30 cal slut
12-11-12, 19:34
Google search says mall is posted no-guns.
Perfect, now if anyone brings this news item up, I will just respond with: That's impossible! That mall is a gun-free zone!
Heavy Metal
12-11-12, 19:40
Word is two dead excluding the shooter himself and one injured.
The Mall is a Gun Free Zone.
As Dr. Phil would say, "So, how is that working out for you?"
BrigandTwoFour
12-11-12, 21:45
I think it is a relatively fortunate consistency that the individuals who typically perform these acts don't put as much effort into practicing with their weapons of choice as many of us here.
The Mall is a Gun Free Zone.
Google search says mall is posted no-guns.
I looked at some Oregon statutes, but am unclear...
Do no-CCW postings have force of law on their own?
davidjinks
12-12-12, 06:54
It depends on the state.
In PA "No Weapons" signs have no legal standing. However if you're found to have a "Weapon" and are asked to leave, you have to leave. If not its considered Criminal Trespass.
I'm not sure on what standing signage has in OR. With that, I wonder if it will actually be reported that it was a posted "Gun Free Zone".
I wonder if this incident will serve positively in a way to eliminate gun free zones? As we've seen many, many times over the years, criminals don't heed the "No Guns Allowed" signs and they don't abide by the laws. Only the lawful masses follow the laws...
I looked at some Oregon statutes, but am unclear...
Do no-CCW postings have force of law on their own?
JBecker 72
12-12-12, 07:08
Why can't these ****tards just off themselves in their parents basement?
davidjinks
12-12-12, 07:13
They want to make everyone else suffer because they're selfish.
Why can't these ****tards just off themselves in their parents basement?
30 cal slut
12-12-12, 07:18
I looked at some Oregon statutes, but am unclear...
Do no-CCW postings have force of law on their own?
The local guys at TOS are saying that the signs have no force of law, and that many folks carry there regardless of the signs.
On the gun free zones: it never ceases to amaze that anyone takes it seriously. Especially in places like malls.
Saturday I walked into Fedex to pick up a package, the door had a big sign "No weapons in this facility." Asked the counter lady about it, and she said shipping stuff is still fine, but "That's just to keep the crazies out." I asked if she thought a 'crazy' person would actually care about that sign. She laughed and said no.
I want to respect private property and typically do. But increasingly, going unarmed onto private property in a very public place like a mall or theater--regardless of their policies--seems like a bad idea.
On the gun free zones: it never ceases to amaze that anyone takes it seriously. Especially in places like malls.
Saturday I walked into Fedex to pick up a package, the door had a big sign "No weapons in this facility." Asked the counter lady about it, and she said shipping stuff is still fine, but "That's just to keep the crazies out." I asked if she thought a 'crazy' person would actually care about that sign. She laughed and said no.
I want to respect private property and typically do. But increasingly, going unarmed onto private property in a very public place like a mall or theater--regardless of their policies--seems like a bad idea.
I am of he same opinion re private property that bans my right to carry. First choice is to not go there and not patronize them. If that is impossible for whatever reason I just ignore the sign and get in and out ASAFP.
Given depressing nature of the Christmas season for some, coupled with the crappy economy, undoubted year end layoffs and the doomsday predictions this may be an interesting ride for the next few weeks.
It depends on the state.
In PA "No Weapons" signs have no legal standing. However if you're found to have a "Weapon" and are asked to leave, you have to leave. If not its considered Criminal Trespass.
I'm not sure on what standing signage has in OR. With that, I wonder if it will actually be reported that it was a posted "Gun Free Zone".
I was asking specifically about OR. Thanks though.
OR LEO contingent here? Chime in?
The Mall is a Gun Free Zone.
I can not believe that guy didnt turn around once he saw the Gun Free Zone sign. The answer must be a bigger sign.......
Nightvisionary
12-12-12, 12:27
The Clackamas County Sheriffs's Office is holding a press conference right now. The shooter was a 22 year old male identified as Jacob Tyler Roberts. He used an AR-15 that he stole from a relative. It jammed or failed to fire at some point during the shooting. He was not wearing body armor. They are reporting some type of load bearing vest.
I went to high school with the male victim:(
Moose-Knuckle
12-12-12, 14:40
The Clackamas County Sheriffs's Office is holding a press conference right now. The shooter was a 22 year old male identified as Jacob Tyler Roberts. He used an AR-15 that he stole from a relative. It jammed or failed to fire at some point during the shooting. He was not wearing body armor. They are reporting some type of load bearing vest.
I went to high school with the male victim:(
Sorry to hear about your friend.
Police: Ore. mall shooter used stolen rifle
http://news.yahoo.com/police-ore-mall-shooter-used-stolen-rifle-181931596.html
Nightvisionary
12-12-12, 16:00
The murderers facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/jake.roberts.102
So what was his motive?
Get tired of MW3?
BrigandTwoFour
12-12-12, 18:08
I saw something about a nasty breakup with his pregnant girlfriend. Also read that he was looking for suicide by police.
More: http://abcnews.go.com/US/oregon-mall-shooter-jacob-roberts-quit-job-hawaii/story?id=17946938
Since the weapon was identified as stolen, we may expect this event will not get as much attention going forward as it provides less fuel for the gun-control crowd. Not that they won't figure out a way to use it, just that it isn't as easy.
Perfect, now if anyone brings this news item up, I will just respond with: That's impossible! That mall is a gun-free zone!
I think the shooter must have used some form of witchcraft. Lord knows that guns can't be carried into gun-free zones.
What black magic sorcery is this?
Also, did anyone confirm the media's report of an AR15 being the actual weapon used? It seems that since Aurora every shooting has been an "AR15". Whatever happened to the great variety of AK47's in use by mass shooters? I especially liked all the 9mm ones, and the .40 ones, and the ones chambered in 12 gauge.
Moose-Knuckle
12-12-12, 20:27
Also, did anyone confirm the media's report of an AR15 being the actual weapon used? It seems that since Aurora every shooting has been an "AR15". Whatever happened to the great variety of AK47's in use by mass shooters? I especially liked all the 9mm ones, and the .40 ones, and the ones chambered in 12 gauge.
Yeah they change up every now and again.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/MediaGuidetoAR15Rifle.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/mediaguidetofirearmidentification.jpg
Cincinnatus
12-12-12, 21:13
Those are gold, Moose-knuckle!
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-13-12, 08:25
This guy seems to have anti-depressants written all over him. Dollars to donuts this guy, like all the other mass shooters was on some drug or professional mental health care.
Business_Casual
12-13-12, 09:50
This guy seems to have anti-depressants written all over him. Dollars to donuts this guy, like all the other mass shooters was on some drug or professional mental health care.
It's interesting how they all sort of follow a pattern that includes bad timing...
bc
This guy seems to have anti-depressants written all over him. Dollars to donuts this guy, like all the other mass shooters was on some drug or professional mental health care.
Are you saying the drugs and/or mental health care cause people to be mass murderers?
JBecker 72
12-13-12, 11:48
Are you saying the drugs and/or mental health care cause people to be mass murderers?
I think he is saying this is a recurring pattern with the people who go on mass shooting sprees. These are not stable people and they also tend to be loaners. Just because someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they are a threat to themselves or others though.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
It should be self evident that people who go on these shootings have mental health issues.
But that statement looks to imply the cause is treatment, not the root problem.
I think he is saying this is a recurring pattern with the people who go on mass shooting sprees. These are not stable people and they also tend to be loaners. Just because someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they are a threat to themselves or others though.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
This guy wasn't a loner.
So is it true that this guys gun was an AR and it also jammed?
What kind of malfunction are we talking about here? The Aurora guy's malfunction was magazine related, I don't think that is the case here.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-13-12, 14:01
It should be self evident that people who go on these shootings have mental health issues.
But that statement looks to imply the cause is treatment, not the root problem.
Thanks JB for the help. I wasn't trying to go all Tom Cruise here on psychiatric treatment as being bad, but that the mental health profession lets these guys slip thru the cracks. That is a really difficult problem to deal with, but one that never seems to come up in the after-shooting analysis. We have a crazy people problem, not a gun problem.
After the Aurora shootings I thought I was going to go on crazy pills when a crazy guy walks into a hyper-violent movie and shoots people and everyone is wondering what kind of gun he had and what kind of gear he is wearinig.
What is this, a Magpul Video? :smile:
This guy wasn't a loner.
He had a girlfriend. Even loners have friends and even a page in the yearbook like the Columbine shooters nowadays.
JBecker 72
12-13-12, 15:07
This guy wasn't a loner.
Loner or not he is (was) obviously a dipshit who sucked at life.
Loner or not he is (was) obviously a dipshit who sucked at life.
Besides this event, what did he do that was obviously dipshit and sucking at life?
JBecker 72
12-13-12, 15:56
Besides this event, what did he do that was obviously dipshit and sucking at life?
He could have spent every day after school helping sick children, and it wouldn't ****ing matter given his actions. I fail to see where you are going with this.
Murder suicide, nuff said.
I wish more people had concealed carry and trained often, things like this wouldn't happen as much or last as long.
He could have spent every day after school helping sick children, and it wouldn't ****ing matter given his actions. I fail to see where you are going with this.
Murder suicide, nuff said.
You're trying very hard to find a "type" of person that goes on mass shootings. The problem is that there isn't a "type" of person that does this. They're not all loners. They're not all mentally unstable, although many are. You can't say that all people who go on mass shootings were "dipshits" or "failing at life" before the event.
It's a crazy person problem. Not a gun problem, as was stated above. If it was a gun problem then we'd be seeing these types of shootings occur every day in Israel. A place where fully auto M4's on young girls and boys is a constant. There's something wrong with our culture here, it's not the guns themselves. Whenever someone blames the guns, I just say, "Look at Israel. They don't have this issue." Typically they STFU.
Besides this event, what did he do that was obviously dipshit and sucking at life?
Girlfriend pregnant, surprise break-up, failed life plans, etc.
I think he just snapped. He did not have psychological coping mechanisms that were effective. Synonymous with being unable to succeed at life.
I just wish that after the "event" we wouldn't plaster their pictures all over the TV and internet. I don't wanna peruse his friggen facebook account. I want these cowards names and faces forgotten as soon as possible. We should stop giving them the notoriety that they ALL are seeking.
You're trying very hard to find a "type" of person that goes on mass shootings. The problem is that there isn't a "type" of person that does this. They're not all loners. They're not all mentally unstable, although many are. You can't say that all people who go on mass shootings were "dipshits" or "failing at life" before the event.
This. Many would do well to read de Becker's The Gift of Fear.
PdxMotoxer
12-14-12, 09:10
I just wish that after the "event" we wouldn't plaster their pictures all over the TV and internet. I don't wanna peruse his friggen facebook account. I want these cowards names and faces forgotten as soon as possible. We should stop giving them the notoriety that they ALL are seeking.
I couldn't agree any more with you.
Born and raised near that mall (we used to ride/race dirtbikes in the
field where it was built then hanging out there as a teen)
The news here is all about him and little to do with the victims or their families.
Like many in this thread asking about HIS facebook and HIS parents
with little to nothing about the victims who were only at a mall.
There is a mini Sheriff's office located across from the theater close to where he started.
Yes NO GUNS allowed on private property HAS to be followed but if
you get "caught" they can only ask you to leave and if you don't charge you with trespassing.
If i see "No Guns" i see a place that doesn't want my hard earned money. (unless federal or state building)
We don't have a crazy person problem, a gun problem, or a problem with the mental health profession. We do have a problem with a culture of violence. By that I mean people are inculcated with senseless violence from a very young age. It permeates our media, recreation, and even our religion in many instances. What is worse, modern technology allows children to virtually act out their violent tendencies through video games in a manner that could not be imagined just 25 years ago. Thus, people's coping skills and default defenses turn to what is familiar with the slightest stress. Add in a little substance abuse here, a dash of government dependance there, a sprinkle of broken family, and you've got a great recipe for the perfect sociopath. All that is needed for a tragedy is an abundant supply of weapons left unsecured in a negligent manner.
How do you fix it? Well, that beats the hell out of me. On one hand, a strict interpretation of the the First Amendment prevents government censorship. On the other, it is nearly impossible for parents to control this shit - it's everywhere. In addition, you could be a great parent in providing some filter from the media, but it does not mean that your kids are immune from being targeted by the next 16-year old sociopath for their nice shoes. I also don't think that we could (or should try) solve this problem with gun control. But, I'm getting tired of people who fail to secure their weapons in a responsible manner. It's called a safe asshole - buy one.
Some have mentioned the mental health profession failing us. What are you expecting - more involuntary commitment orders? A better medication? I've got a little secret, there is no red pill called mom or blue pill called dad. In addition, there is no money to fund more mental health resources since most of these people lack financial resources. After all, we are talking about severe personality disorders which are not easily treated with medication or therapy. They are ways of thinking and viewing the world that are formed at a very young age. Good luck changing that with some therapy.
As for other countries like Israel, they have their own culture of violence problems just expressed in a different way. Their sociopaths have chosen women and kids with bombs over guns.
We don't have a crazy person problem, a gun problem, or a problem with the mental health profession. We do have a problem with a culture of violence. By that I mean people are inculcated with senseless violence from a very young age. It permeates our media, recreation, and even our religion in many instances. What is worse, modern technology allows children to virtually act out their violent tendencies through video games in a manner that could not be imagined just 25 years ago. Thus, people's coping skills and default defenses turn to what is familiar with the slightest stress. Add in a little substance abuse here, a dash of government dependance there, a sprinkle of broken family, and you've got a great recipe for the perfect sociopath. All that is needed for a tragedy is an abundant supply of weapons left unsecured in a negligent manner.
How do you fix it? Well, that beats the hell out of me. On one hand, a strict interpretation of the the First Amendment prevents government censorship. On the other, it is nearly impossible for parents to control this shit - it's everywhere. In addition, you could be a great parent in providing some filter from the media, but it does not mean that your kids are immune from being targeted by the next 16-year old sociopath for their nice shoes. I also don't think that we could (or should try) solve this problem with gun control. But, I'm getting tired of people who fail to secure their weapons in a responsible manner. It's called a safe asshole - buy one.
Some have mentioned the mental health profession failing us. What are you expecting - more involuntary commitment orders? A better medication? I've got a little secret, there is no red pill called mom or blue pill called dad. In addition, there is no money to fund more mental health resources since most of these people lack financial resources. After all, we are talking about severe personality disorders which are not easily treated with medication or therapy. They are ways of thinking and viewing the world that are formed at a very young age. Good luck changing that with some therapy.
As for other countries like Israel, they have their own culture of violence problems just expressed in a different way. Their sociopaths have chosen women and kids with bombs over guns.
I would like to distill this:
You (and by extension, "others" and "their") are responsible for your own actions. You, and no-one and nothing else. No exceptions. I don't care what feel-good bullshit you heard.
I would like to distill this:
You (and by extension, "others" and "their") are responsible for your own actions. You, and no-one and nothing else. No exceptions. I don't care what feel-good bullshit you heard.
Yep, that's about right.
Mauser KAR98K
12-14-12, 12:14
If the government can put restrictions of our 2A rights, why not the 1A? (let the left see how it feels).
If the government can put restrictions of our 2A rights, why not the 1A? (let the left see how it feels).
There are restrictions on the 1A.
The argument actually tends to go the other way:
"If the gov't can put restrictions on our 1A, why not our 2A?"
We don't have a crazy person problem, a gun problem, or a problem with the mental health profession. We do have a problem with a culture of violence. By that I mean people are inculcated with senseless violence from a very young age. It permeates our media, recreation, and even our religion in many instances. What is worse, modern technology allows children to virtually act out their violent tendencies through video games in a manner that could not be imagined just 25 years ago.
Thusly these circumstances are the fires from which teh crazy is forged. Crazy doesn't necessarily denote mentally defective in a permanent way, normal people can act crazy under a variety of circumstances. But I agree with your general point, it's a cultural problem. We've managed to cheapen the value of human life, and simultaneously heightened the value of celebrity to the point that some people, crazy people or people acting crazily, believe that shooting a large number of people and committing suicide sounds like a sensible final act of defiance or protest against which they see as a world or social group that has marginalized them. Sorry for that crappy sentence, it's my first of the day and no coffee yet....
As for other countries like Israel, they have their own culture of violence problems just expressed in a different way. Their sociopaths have chosen women and kids with bombs over guns.
The Israelis are not the ones strapping bombs to children. They are reacting to that, and that's why their young people carry M4's to lunch. But I will grant you that Israel has a culture of violence that's expressed in more subtle ways, and that perhaps it's their homogeneity and political solidarity that keeps it from becoming the type of self-destructive cancer that we're seeing here. I just don't know.
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