View Full Version : Need advice for an AR
Hello guys!
Well, the time has come where I can finally get my first AR 15!!!
I need some advice as to which one (brand) I should get.
The gun will be used for target shooting and for personal defense, and my budget is in the $1500-$1700 range.
I would like a carbine, with a collapsable stock, and removable handle.
I plan on adding a rail system and an Eotech sight in the near future as well.
Having said all that, please share your advice with regards to which brand I should get.
I obviously want the best quality for my money; I'm just not sure which one that would be!
I recently shot a Bushmaster at the range this past weekend, and it seemed to work fine, but I have been hearing not-so-good things about Bushmaster lately.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post and any advice is welcome!!!
Abdon
GastonG-NoVa
09-05-06, 21:20
Go with an LMT14.5 inch gun with a vortex FH (This puts you right over 16"), LaRue, Daniel Defense, or Troy rail, and your EoTech and you should be fine.
Just my thoughts,
G
Well for that kind of coin I would get a nice Colt M4. Colt is really the best bang for your buck. I do not like the MIL/LEO only sells viewpoint but I can understand.
If I were in your shoes I would also look at a Bushy with the intention of upgrading the craping parts they put out, BCG, stock, etc... Bushy makes good GP rifles but you need to remove the shit parts they install. Their QC leaves a lot to be desired.
I have been hearing a lot of good things about BravoCompany and Stag guns. I hate the stupid deer logo but what can you do. :rolleyes:
My 2 cents YMMV.
Since you state that you plan to add a rail and optic later, it would seem your listed budget is dedicated solely to purchasing the host weapon. As such, your impressively large budget affords you the luxury of being able to choose pretty much any brand.
I use and can recommend the Colt LE6920, a basic 16" carbine.
Two things. First, availability is very poor at the moment, but should improve during the fourth quarter. Second, it sounds like you are looking to purchasing a complete rifle. Mixing and matching various components could result in a carbine with a similar feature set, but to the best of my knowledge, there are no complete rifles for sale that are the equivalent of the Colt model mentioned.
Good luck!
Robb Jensen
09-06-06, 04:06
Check out the S&W M&P15 Tactical, it has a Troy rail and Troy flip up sights and I think it would be a good choice.
I easily purchased my new S&W M&P15 and added an Eotech for under your price range.(tax and all I paid $1425) I only have 420s round through it and I have not had one malfunction. The last 340 rounds have been nasty Wolf. This is my first AR and I am very happy with it.
Well for that kind of coin I would get a nice Colt M4. Colt is really the best bang for your buck. I do not like the MIL/LEO only sells viewpoint but I can understand.
If I were in your shoes I would also look at a Bushy with the intention of upgrading the craping parts they put out, BCG, stock, etc... Bushy makes good GP rifles but you need to remove the shit parts they install. Their QC leaves a lot to be desired.
I have been hearing a lot of good things about BravoCompany and Stag guns. I hate the stupid deer logo but what can you do. :rolleyes:
My 2 cents YMMV.
Out of curiosity, specifically what parts do you think should be swapped out of a Bushmaster carbine?
Thanks
Wayne Dobbs
09-06-06, 22:48
Brother, save yourself lots of potential trouble and DON'T buy a Bushwhacker. Get a Colt and that way you won't have to be asking questions about what parts to replace. Search through some of these threads here and see what I mean. PM Pat Rogers and ask about his "Book of Shame" that has page after page of POS BMs that have, to use his words, "shit the sheets".
Buy cheap and ya get to buy TWICE...
Get an LE6920.
Out of curiosity, specifically what parts do you think should be swapped out of a Bushmaster carbine?
Thanks
First thing I would do is check the tower and index pin to insure they are installed correctly. If you do not have the tools then take it to a good smith who can check it in a couple minutes. Next I would replace the complete BCG, their carriers suck when it comes to staking. I've found several that weren't even staked. :rolleyes: Bad machining you name it. Their bolts I do not trust as they do not MP test each bolt, I'm not sure of their method but I assume its a random test of bolts as they pass by. I use Colt or FN bolts only each is tested and that gives me a little more hope I never have a " Boom " 7 inchs from my face.
Next ditch the entire Bushy stock assembly. Vltor is the best bang for your buck. I'm not a big Vltor stock fan but I have not been able to destroy one yet, been working on several for over a year so they pass the Boom test. Next round file the hammer and trigger. I like DMPS FCGs, lots of guys do not but they have never failed me yet.
That's it, nothing else really needs to be replaced on a Bushy. Most guys make these changes over the years anyway before they have issues in the first place. The point is mote for me as I do not buy off the shelf rifles anyway, haven't for years, I just build what I want from parts I buy.
Wayne Dobbs
09-07-06, 00:41
Boom is correct on all his points about what to replace on a BM. And, when you add up what those replacements will be, you're at around $500-600 to do those replacements. Which brings us back to the original suggestion....buy a Colt.
So as far as "off the shelf" buying goes, would Colt be the best choice for me regarding durability and reliability? Are there other makers who are as reliable? (DPMS, RRA, Armalite?)
I really would hate to go out and buy the gun only to have to start to replace or work on several parts on it right off the bat just to get it to function properly!
Also, please pardon my ignorance but what does "staking" mean? :confused:
I also would like to know what the abbreviation "BRD" stands for?
Thanks!!
Abdon
Check out the S&W M&P15 Tactical, it has a Troy rail and Troy flip up sights and I think it would be a good choice.
I am SERIOUSLY looking at the S&W.......been hearing good things about it so far....gonna check prices this weekend at local gun show.
Wayne Dobbs
09-07-06, 07:34
Colt is the only verified Tier 1 manufacturer out there. You should have nothing to do with one except shoot it. Some folks will for their own reasons, replace stocks, handguards, pistol grips, etc., but the gun is good to go as is. The other brands you mentioned are possibly worse than BM, with the possible exception of RRA. The acronym you used wasn't used anywhere in the thread that I could see, but I think you're referring to BCG, which is the bolt carrier group.
Staking is the displacement of metal to impinge on a part to keep it from loosening or moving. Most carrier keys on the lower end guns come from the factories unstaked or with insufficient staking. This soon leads to the carrier key coming loose and short stroking failures beginning.
The SW does seem to be a fairly well done rifle, but it's not a Smith produced gun. It's a CMT/Stag and while it's a decent product, again the Colt is the standard as it's verifiably made to Mil-Spec standards in all respects. NONE of the other production guns are except for FN, which to my knowledge isn't commercially available.
Ok so now I'm REALLY leaning towards Colt for my AR!
So if I understand correctly, Colt would essentially need no modification at all out the box, other than personal preference items such as stock, rail system or sights?
Now you're going to encounter the one problem with Colt; finding one.
The cheapest 6920 (http://colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp) model I have seen recently was $1500. If you're OK with shooting iron sights for now you can buy a 6520 (http://colt.com/law/ar15a2.asp) for around $1300. When you're ready to add optics, just buy a flattop stripped upper and send it and your complete 6520 upper to ADCO to have them swap out the uppers and install whatever free float rail you want while they're at it. That's what I did. You can sell the A2 upper later so that the swap only costs you labor.
I went from this (http://colt.com/law/images/ar15a2.jpg) to this (http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/196/196030/folders/171062/1926930ARComplete.jpg).
abdon;
from what you are describing your needs to be, i would buy a colt. later on, when you learn more, i think you will be glad later that you did.
good luck.
You can buy a Doublestar for half what you pay for a Colt. They are guranteed to function within their parameters and they are all made in the USA. Granted I am byist just a little, but a lot of LEO and Military personnel carry them and have great results. We are on most LE purchase lists and the quality is there. Colt makes a fair gun, for a tremendous price. Why not get a tremendous gun for a fair price??
www.star15.com
You can buy a Doublestar for half what you pay for a Colt. They are guranteed to function within their parameters and they are all made in the USA. Granted I am byist just a little, but a lot of LEO and Military personnel carry them and have great results. We are on most LE purchase lists and the quality is there. Colt makes a fair gun, for a tremendous price. Why not get a tremendous gun for a fair price??
www.star15.com
Wow! Yet another brand to look into!!! I had not even heard of Doublestar!
As far as your comment above that "Colt makes a fair gun for a tremendous price"...that's a pretty bold statement!
I was getting the impression here that Colt pretty much sets the standard when it comes to AR 15's!
Man I never knew getting an AR would be so complicated!:D I am having lots of fun though and I'm learning A LOT!!!
The more I read on this thread and this fine forum, the more I am stimulated to read more to expand my knowledge about this fine rifle!
Thanks for all your comments guys and please keep the comments and opinions coming!!!
Abdon
You can buy a Doublestar for half what you pay for a Colt. They are guranteed to function within their parameters and they are all made in the USA. Granted I am byist just a little, but a lot of LEO and Military personnel carry them and have great results. We are on most LE purchase lists and the quality is there. Colt makes a fair gun, for a tremendous price. Why not get a tremendous gun for a fair price??
www.star15.com
Doublestar does the following?
MPI all barrels?
MPI all bolts?
Same barrel steel as Colt?
Park'd under FSB?
Annodized machined M4 feed ramps?
Offers a lifetime warranty?
Properly stakes bolt carrier screws?
etc.
etc.
Doublestar buys most of their parts (bolts, barrels, carriers, internals) from the same places as Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, etc. We have done special runs of M4 ramped barrels for a few other manufacturers, and I have never had a carrier come back for a loose key. I'm not claiming that we do everything exactly the same way, but our rifles perform right alongside theirs.
After reading all of the above and being new to this gun and having just recently purchased my first "Black Gun" I am still glad I got the S&W M&P 15.
I am a Colt firearm fan however I do believe when you buy a Colt you pay an extra 20% to 30% more just for them to stamp their name on it. I do not believe the extra money spent is for any better quality.
The point that seems to be getting missed, as often does in these discussions, is not that it's impossible to get a Bushmaster, RRA, Armalite, or even a frankengun of J&T that runs just fine. The point is that you are more LIKELY to get a failure with those guns than you are with a Colt. Whether that be due to testing of parts or just the plain simple use of higher quality parts (like the barrel steel, which is higher quality AND tested).
As I've said in the past, I would much prefer to never ever find out what a company's customer service is like, simply because they made such a damn good product that I never had to call them after the sale. For guys that think like me, Colt is the only answer.
How does Colt compare to the other more "expensive" AR's such as LMT, NOVESKE and WILSON to name a few? (If there are others, please include in comparison!)
Are these considered true "top of the line" or can I expect as good quality from Colt?
I dont mean to sound redundant, but I just want to gain as much info as possible before my purchase.
Also, I have the money for a Colt now, and I will probably have some left over for a Magpul stock, a Troy rail and an Eotech sight....I REALLY think I will be buying my COLT THIS WEEKEND:D :D :D
Having said that, should I even consider waiting and saving up some more and getting into one of the more expensive brands? Is it really worth it to do that?
Thanks!!!
Abdon
The wonderful thing about this type of forum is that everyone is allowed to voice their opinion. Colt has been the standard for many years, but there are "frankenguns" out there that will outshoot and outlast a Colt. I'm not saying that all Colts are bad or all "frankenguns" are good because we all know that there are crappy guns out there. All I'm saying is just because everything was not done the same way Colt said it should be done twenty years ago does not make it a mutant weapon, just a more recent updated version. Would you hold automobile specs for thirty years? Of course not. Abdon, you just have to sift through all of the self proclaimed internet AR15 "experts" like myself to find what you think will work best. Good luck. There are obviously differing opinions on all sides.
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