View Full Version : Turret VS singlestage
Specifically the lee brand but not limited to that. Im wondering how much faster is the turret than the single for .223? Or how many rounds per hour can you actually do with them each.
Specifically the lee brand but not limited to that. Im wondering how much faster is the turret than the single for .223? Or how many rounds per hour can you actually do with them each.
I just started reloading at the beginning of the year and went with the Lee Classic Turret press. I decided to go with this setup over a single stage mostly due to the fact that you can set up a turret for each caliber you reload and just swap the turrets instead of messing around with changing out each individual die when going from one step of the process to the next. I have never actually used a single stage, but I have taken out the indexing rod if I just want to de-prime fired brass and don't think I would enjoy having to use a single stage when trying to load up thousands of rounds per year.
As for rounds per hour, I can generally pump out between 175-200 rounds per hour. That includes checking charge and length every 10 or 15 rounds.
A turret press is not a huge time saver over a standard SS, but it is a huge convenience. Any quality SS press you get will be a lifetime investment, so get a good one up front.
I really like the Redding Turret press I've used for ~25 years. It replaced a cheap single stage (that ended up being money down the drain). I added progressive loaders over many years, but the Turret press gets used all the time.
I resize all bottleneck rifle cases in the turret, but volume load in one of two progressives. (For a small batch of some seldom used caliber, the Turret still gets the nod.)
My current Turret configuration has three sizing dies, a competition seating die and one (Dillon) trim die. The Dillon trim die will go the way of the Dodo bird as soon as I need an open station. (I now trim with a Giraud).
Specifically the lee brand but not limited to that. Im wondering how much faster is the turret than the single for .223? Or how many rounds per hour can you actually do with them each.
A turret press is not faster than a single stage press, just more convenient. However, there is another type of press that's sort of a single stage on steroids. The multi station H Press, a semi-progressive:
Made by CH4D the 444 has been around longer than most of the posters on M4C. I have a Ch4D 444 that's more than 20 years old. I also have a CH4D 111 (no longer made) that's more than 30 years old.
http://www.ch4d.com/?com=catalog&view=product&alias=044000
And it is possible to load up to 200 shells an hour.
Turrets save a bunch of time when doing small batches or multiple iterations of load development, etc.,
You can leave your dies set up and adjusted without having to swap in and out, pop back and forth between operations as required, etc.,
I still do all low volume rifle and handgun on a turret.
With a decent turret press (I've got a Lyman), I've not seen significant lateral runout issues, or anything like that from flex, but it's worth checking if you are after very precise results.
I have both: an old Lee Challenger single stage and a Classic Turret. My SIL has the Breech Lock Challenger SS.
The turret is convenient in that your entire die set is on one plate and the dies can remain set with no setup for new sessions (always verify). The breech lock SS also allows you to leave each die in its own collar and do not need to make adjustments either. The regular single stage you have to adjust each die every time you use it.
When loading for handgun cartridges I just crank each cartridge through the cycle using the auto-indexing of the turret. I do no case prep for handgun except initial cleaning so there is no interruption.
For rifle I never use the turret for cranking through entire cycles. But it does have all my dies on it: normal FL sizer, RCBS X-Die FL sizer, seating, and crimping. I rarely use crimping (just 55 and 62 gr FMJ with cannelures) so the seating die is set with no crimp, and use the dedicated crimping die. I leave my seating set. I also do much more case prep for rifle so the cases do not stay on the press the whole time. A breech lock SS would be just as good in this case.
My rifle cartridge process is generally using the press without the auto-index rod:
* Universal decap to remove primer for sonic cleaning (one turret has the Universal decap die, and the collet bullet puller)
* Sonic clean
* Size (if my previously loaded brass that was sized the run through X-Die, if new or range brass then regular FL; both dies on same turret)
* Trim, swage primer crimps, and uniform primer pocket if new or range brass
* Tumble polish and ziploc for storage
* Then reloading is just running the prepped case through press to prime (love the Safety Prime attachment to the turret press); remove case to charge at my RCBS Uniflow measure, and run through the seating die to seat the bullet.
The breech lock single stage is practically as convenient as the turret. But I think the 4-hole turret is cheaper than 4 breech lock collars, and the turret keeps all the dies for a caliber in one place. I have all my frequently used die sets on turrets and a couple of blank turrets for occasional use sets. And I like the Safety Prime attachment so much I would only get a press that accommodates it. The Classic Turret does, not sure about the regular Turret press or the Breech Lock.
A turret press is not faster than a single stage press, just more convenient. However, there is another type of press that's sort of a single stage on steroids. The multi station H Press, a semi-progressive:
Made by CH4D the 444 has been around longer than most of the posters on M4C. I have a Ch4D 444 that's more than 20 years old. I also have a CH4D 111 (no longer made) that's more than 30 years old.
http://www.ch4d.com/?com=catalog&view=product&alias=044000
And it is possible to load up to 200 shells an hour.
The idea of a turret is to not have to remove the brass from the shell holder a bunch of times. That is not even close to semi progressive. The amount of case handling your better of buying a single stage, and batch loading. If your paying almost 300 dollars you might as well get a 550 and have true progressive.
I can't believe they are still making that thing. Its an abomination.
Boxerglocker
12-14-12, 16:08
A turret press is not faster than a single stage press, just more convenient. However, there is another type of press that's sort of a single stage on steroids. The multi station H Press, a semi-progressive:
Made by CH4D the 444 has been around longer than most of the posters on M4C. I have a Ch4D 444 that's more than 20 years old. I also have a CH4D 111 (no longer made) that's more than 30 years old.
http://www.ch4d.com/?com=catalog&view=product&alias=044000
And it is possible to load up to 200 shells an hour.
If regards to having to crank out a predicted number of rounds a Lee Classic Turret is way faster than a SS. You spend no time having to readjust you dies. The Auto primer system is fast and reliable.
That 444 press I will admit may have merits in regards to loading precision rounds. 200 rounds an hour with that thing? Moving each case from shell plate to shell plate by hand prior to pulling the handle? I seriously doubt that it could be done. I've loaded just shy of 200 an hour pretty consistently on a LCT and 500 an hour on a Dillon SDB. How could you possibly load 200 an hour on that thing?
NWcityguy2
12-14-12, 18:29
I have a 444 and load a little more than 200 rounds an hour with it. It also lets me hand prime, which I prefer, without slowing me down at all. I currently have it set up with one stage resize, one stage powder drop, one stage seat/crimp and one stage sizes lead bullets. I figured even if I got a full progressive like a Dillon I'd still be using my single stage press to size lead bullets so the 444 was the better choice.
Its a good choice if you find working with your hands is relaxing, and a horrible choice if you don't.
If regards to having to crank out a predicted number of rounds a Lee Classic Turret is way faster than a SS. You spend no time having to readjust you dies. The Auto primer system is fast and reliable.
You don't re-adjust your dies all the time for a single stage press either. That's why they have locking rings on them. Once they're set up you just screw them in and out and by locking the the lock ring one maintains any adjustment that has been made.
You don't re-adjust your dies all the time for a single stage press either. That's why they have locking rings on them. Once they're set up you just screw them in and out and by locking the the lock ring one maintains any adjustment that has been made.
This is exactly what i think when people say that you always have to adjust idea on single stage. It is just ignorance. If you need to adjust a die on a single stage it will require adjusting on any other type of press.
While I've got, and have had several progressives and single station presses, I've also used several turrets, and prefer the Lee Turret over all the s. stages and turrets. Inexpensive, and just flat works, with no flex. I like the Lee turret.
Skip
Boxerglocker
12-14-12, 21:56
You don't re-adjust your dies all the time for a single stage press either. That's why they have locking rings on them. Once they're set up you just screw them in and out and by locking the the lock ring one maintains any adjustment that has been made.
Understood if you have dies with locking rings, not all dies do have them. You still have to screw them in and out. I personally would rather use the turret in either manual or auto index mode.
I have never seen a die without a lock ring. If there was not lock ring it would not hold its adjustment while you were reloading.
I have never seen a die without a lock ring. If there was not lock ring it would not hold its adjustment while you were reloading.
Yes, dies have lock rings. You still have to screw them in and out, and if you're crimping on the bullet seater for handgun stuff, you still have to adjust for brass OAL. I use the turret for experimenting, <200 rds an hour required handgun stuff, and use a single stage for large magnums, with the dillon for production.
NWcityguy2
12-14-12, 23:31
and if you're crimping on the bullet seater for handgun stuff, you still have to adjust for brass OAL
Just once, just like everything else. Most people don't measure thier handgun brass, most don't trim it either. It would have to be really out of spec for it to affect the crimp. Shooting and resizing straight walled pistol just doesn't change the OAL like it does to bottlenecked rifle brass.
Boxerglocker
12-15-12, 00:30
I have never seen a die without a lock ring. If there was not lock ring it would not hold its adjustment while you were reloading.
Yes, all dies have "Lock" rings... but there is a difference between "Lock" rings and "Locking" rings.
"Locking" rings such as the Redding, Hornady and generally the newer RCBS have a set screw that "lock" the ring to keep the adjustment. Others as the Dillons or the Lee's which use o-rings don't. Either way I wouldn't trust them without taking my calipers to them again to confirm. Difference in thousands of an inch can have significant impact to the consistency of rounds.
Now if you talking a single stage with a bushing type adapter "quick change" for such as the LNL Classic (which incidentally I own) yes regardless of the lock ring on whatever die used you can maintain adjustments.
Yes, dies have lock rings. You still have to screw them in and out, and if you're crimping on the bullet seater for handgun stuff, you still have to adjust for brass OAL. I use the turret for experimenting, <200 rds an hour required handgun stuff, and use a single stage for large magnums, with the dillon for production.
Screwing a die in or out isn't particularly difficult or time consuming. If you're crimping with seat die and have brass that is so out of spec that you have to adjust for OAL, you'll still have to do that whether using a turret, a single stage, or a progressive. Your best bet for that issue is a brass trimmer or better quality brass.
Boxerglocker
12-15-12, 00:46
Just once, just like everything else. Most people don't measure thier handgun brass, most don't trim it either. It would have to be really out of spec for it to affect the crimp. Shooting and resizing straight walled pistol just doesn't change the OAL like it does to bottlenecked rifle brass.
This isn't necessarily true, depends on the caliber. I know for competition revolver shooters particularly using mixed brass in the longer case calibers it makes a difference. I've got a buddy who is a Master USPSA and NRA Bullseye wheel gunner. They do stretch, not as prominently as bottleneck rifle case but they do none the less. A lot of it has to do with the amount of roll crimp used and the effects of pressure inside the case at detonation of the round.
This isn't necessarily true, depends on the caliber. I know for competition revolver shooters particularly using mixed brass in the longer case calibers it makes a difference. I've got a buddy who is a Master USPSA and NRA Bullseye wheel gunner. They do stretch, not as prominently as bottleneck rifle case but they do none the less. A lot of it has to do with the amount of roll crimp used and the effects of pressure inside the case at detonation of the round.
This ^^^, and I often am loading different bullets with different batches/ brands of brass in the same caliber, especially moderate volume pistol...240gr or 200gr LRNFP in .44 WCF, 180, 200, 240, 245gr jacketed and cast in .44 mag, etc, all with different seating depths and crimping requirements/cannelures/grooves. Most rifle stuff, I agree with the lock rings, a single station, and batch processing, but there are times I'm happy to have the turret.
The major benefit of the Turret press is the setting (or not setting) of the lock ring(s) is optional. This way you can tweak the die as many times as you want - since you don't have to remove a sizer die to seat bullets or taper crimp. FYI, a lock ring "locks", a hex nut does not. (I don't use the Lee stuff with the O ring.)
As previously mentioned, my Redding Turret press is "mostly" just used for sizing. Everything else is generally done on a progressive.
Plus I don't have to hunt down my frequently used dies - they are already mounted and adjusted to where I last used them - whether the lock ring is locked or not. Now if I want to size some of my C&R brass (8mm Mauser, 6.5 Swede, etc.), not to mention the seldom used hunting rifles; I'll have to make room on the turret.
Been reloading since 1973 and I would suggest that if you are serious about reloading study up on Dillon products. They are that good. have had on since 1992 and have loaded over 100,000 rounds on it(other people have loaded on it) The primer mechanism messed up 2 years ago and a call to Dillon was interesting! The tech asked me more questions than I though was necessary so to say but the end result was Dillon sent all the parts to renew the primer setup plus all the parts to upgrade the machine . Now that is a no B.S. warranty.
You should also look into the Dillon BL550 (Dillon used to call it the AT500). It’s basically a turret press that can be upgraded to a progressive press (RL550B) in the future.
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