View Full Version : Need help with Noveske NSR barrel nut torque issue
I have a Noveske NSR 13.5 that I'm installing and the barrel nut will not torque properly. I'm posting this as I have ran out of solutions to get this resolved. I have been trying to contact Noveske since before Thanksgiving and nobody has responded. I have called, left messages, sent an email all with no response. So I guess I'm on my own on this one.
As seen in the pics below it torques just past where I need to be and there is no way to get close to the next hole. I have read that each end is threaded differently for situations like this. I tried flipping the barrel nut around and the other end is threaded exactly the same. At 30 ft/lbs of torque it aligns in exactly the same spot as the other end. Working the torque up I was getting the same results.
On the upside I have access to a full machine shop. So any machining tips would be helpful as well.
30ft/lbs
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8248/92696426.jpg
70ft/lbs
http://imageshack.us/a/img713/7900/60092315.jpg
clmarshall21
12-14-12, 12:43
Interesting... Mine aligned at around 70lbs when using the side of the barrel nut without the groove.
I also installed the same handguard on a friends upper and it aligned with 45lbs when using the side of the barrel nut with the groove.
Both uppers are VLTOR MUR with Centurion CHF barrels so I found it interesting that they would be so different.
The steps that I took to get mine aligned are as follow (Pretty much what Noveske's instruction sheet says):
1) Hand tightened the barrel nut on both ways to determine which side would align the best. The top set of holes landed just shy of 12 o'clock (with clockwise being the direction the barrel nut was turned to tighten it on).
2) After removing and applying grease to the threads, I torqued the nut to the receiver at 40lbs. You need to do this multiple times.
3) After each torque down I removed the barrel nut with a breaker bar and increased the weight on my torque wrench for the next torque down. The nine times was a result of how many of these repetitions I had to complete in order to reach the proper torque weight (which aligned the nut properly).
Tip: I put a mark at the set of holes that I was using for alignment so that I knew for sure after torquing where those holes ended up.
I am sure the process that you went through was almost identical because its pretty well lined out in Noveske's instructions. Hope you can find something in here that helps you.
BTW, what upper receiver and barrel are you using? Are they new or used? Just curious
Call up and talk to Todd.
This is what I see as the down fall of this rail system. How far is each set of holes spaced? It would seem something like a stock barrel nut has closer spacing making it easier to align it, and even then it is a less than ideal system.
This is where I see the barrel nut on rails like the Daniel defense lite/risii and the Geiselle rail being a big improvement over stock.
Call up and talk to Todd.
Do you happen to have a direct number for him? I have tried the sales and technical lines and always get voicemail.
Interesting... Mine aligned at around 70lbs when using the side of the barrel nut without the groove.
I also installed the same handguard on a friends upper and it aligned with 45lbs when using the side of the barrel nut with the groove.
Both uppers are VLTOR MUR with Centurion CHF barrels so I found it interesting that they would be so different.
The steps that I took to get mine aligned are as follow (Pretty much what Noveske's instruction sheet says):
1) Hand tightened the barrel nut on both ways to determine which side would align the best. The top set of holes landed just shy of 12 o'clock (with clockwise being the direction the barrel nut was turned to tighten it on).
2) After removing and applying grease to the threads, I torqued the nut to the receiver at 40lbs. You need to do this multiple times.
3) After each torque down I removed the barrel nut with a breaker bar and increased the weight on my torque wrench for the next torque down. The nine times was a result of how many of these repetitions I had to complete in order to reach the proper torque weight (which aligned the nut properly).
Tip: I put a mark at the set of holes that I was using for alignment so that I knew for sure after torquing where those holes ended up.
I am sure the process that you went through was almost identical because its pretty well lined out in Noveske's instructions. Hope you can find something in here that helps you.
BTW, what upper receiver and barrel are you using? Are they new or used? Just curious
Aero Precision upper and a Rainier Arms 14.5" Match barrel. All new parts being used. I followed the instructions but started at 30lbs instead of 40lbs because I wanted to lessen the probability of this happening. I did the mark tip also with some masking tape and a pencil mark so I could keep track of how it was indexing.
If both sides are timing the same is sounds like there is a problem with your barrel nut.
Are you using grease on the barrel shoulder?
Do you happen to have a direct number for him? I have tried the sales and technical lines and always get voicemail.
Looks like he is replying directly to you, which means you are in good hands.
This is what I see as the down fall of this rail system. How far is each set of holes spaced? It would seem something like a stock barrel nut has closer spacing making it easier to align it, and even then it is a less than ideal system.
The GI barrel nut has 20. With the offset threads the NSR has 24.
If both sides are timing the same is sounds like there is a problem with your barrel nut.
Are you using grease on the barrel shoulder?
Ok so I took everything apart again. I first removed grease from the receiver, barrel bushing, and barrel shoulder. I lightly sanded the cerakote down to the anodizing on the end of the receiver where the barrel bushing presses up against it. I then applied grease to the barrel shoulder and this time worked it in real good twisting the barrel so everything was nice and slick in there. I made sure there was NO grease between the barrel bushing and receiver when they pressed together so I could get a tighter fit between the barrel bushing and receiver. I found that the non-grooved end was torqueing a little bit further than the other end at this point. I worked my way up on the torque by torqueing and breaking until I arrived to 70 ft/lbs, broke it again and torqued back up to 70 ft/lbs a second time and it finally aligned perfectly! :D
Thank you everyone! Now time to get the gas block on, drop a pin in the battle comp and weld it up.
clmarshall21
12-14-12, 18:55
I am glad you got this thing all squared away... If you don't already know it, you are going to be in love with this handguard from this point forward.
...
This is what I see as the down fall of this rail system. How far is each set of holes spaced? It would seem something like a stock barrel nut has closer spacing making it easier to align it, and even then it is a less than ideal system.
This is where I see the barrel nut on rails like the Daniel defense lite/risii and the Geiselle rail being a big improvement over stock.
At one point I shared your same concerns. I was hesitant to go with the NSR as opposed to waiting around for the Geissele. I agree, the Geissele barrel nut is a great design (it requires no alignment process and results in a rock solid handguard mounting system). When I learned that the wait for the Geissele was going to be quite some time I turned my interests to the NSR. Now that I have the NSR, I couldn't be more impressed. It is far lighter than the SMR and, although it takes a little time to align properly, it too has a rock solid mounting system. If I recall correctly, it is cheaper than the SMR also.
What I am getting at is.... No need for concern about the barrel nut design on the NSR. It is a huge improvement over the stock nut. I personally didn't mind the added effort to align the barrel nut (the NSR install took me no more than 30 minutes) because I now know how solid and still very lightweight this thing is.
The only improvement that could be made would be if Noveske would send a 1-1/16" crowfoot with the NSR kit :D This isn't a tool that can be found many places locally and some of them are quite pricey.
On a side note... Todd.K, any word on if the VLTOR ModPod or any flashlight mounts will be available with a KeyMod type mount for the NSR?
I had the same problem with mine, took about 2 days to finally get it where i wanted it...it torqued down at about 65 pounds
Diver160651A
12-22-12, 08:45
The steps that I took to get mine aligned are as follow (Pretty much what Noveske's instruction sheet says):
******Quick note- I read about people sanding the receiver, I would be very concerned that this step could actually degrade you accuracy if not lapped perfectly.
I also had problems using 2 Vltor MURs and a BCM. But all now work.
Despite many repetitive attempts torquing and re-torquing to lap the barrel nut per Noveske's tech help, I could not do so within the spec'd torque.
Finally, when I called to return the first rail I talked to a guy who said he personal installs the rails on many of their builds. He said "First your going to have to forget anything you know about installing a barrel" some forgettable dialog, then I asked about their directions. He replied "We don't do it like that here, we use a really long handle and basically tighten it down until it lines up" I again reminded to him that I already had it over 105lbs, that I was really close but it still needed more. His basic response was to over torque the period until they line up. Also he made sure I was using the Nylon upper jig that gives internal support on the BCG channel. We I asked about breakage and my concerns about future removal, he said the uppers will be fine as long as you have a good jig and after repeated heating and cooling the barrel nuts will loosen.
Having seen cracked uppers and stuck barrels I really was not convinced... But, I love the rail so over torqued they became.
Pistol
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/22/u3a8anan.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
He was full of shit in my opinion. YMMV
******Quick note- I read about people sanding the receiver, I would be very concerned that this step could actually degrade you accuracy if not lapped perfectly.
I also had problems using 2 Vltor MURs and a BCM. But all now work.
Despite many repetitive attempts torquing and re-torquing to lap the barrel nut per Noveske's tech help, I could not do so within the spec'd torque.
Finally, when I called to return the first rail I talked to a guy who said he personal installs the rails on many of their builds. He said "First your going to have to forget anything you know about installing a barrel" some forgettable dialog, then I asked about their directions. He replied "We don't do it like that here, we use a really long handle and basically tighten it down until it lines up" I again reminded to him that I already had it over 105lbs, that I was really close but it still needed more. His basic response was to over torque the period until they line up. Also he made sure I was using the Nylon upper jig that gives internal support on the BCG channel. We I asked about breakage and my concerns about future removal, he said the uppers will be fine as long as you have a good jig and after repeated heating and cooling the barrel nuts will loosen.
Having seen cracked uppers and stuck barrels I really was not convinced... But, I love the rail so over torqued they became.
Pistol
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/22/u3a8anan.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Here is a vid showing the install of the Noveske NSR rail . And here are the Noveske NSR rail install instruction.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7hP1qNZQZGkAQw9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1Ym9uYXB1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDAyMl8xNzg-/SIG=12d3j7emb/EXP=1356274037/**http%3a//noveskerifleworks.com/impdf/nsr_handguard_inst.pdf
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7hP1qNZQZGkASQ9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1ZjhmYXFrBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDAyMl8xNzg-/SIG=1200q3jj3/EXP=1356274037/**http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=p7WmbpFpKmk
Also, here is a install vid of the Wilson Combat Trim rail that uses a barrel nut design very similar to the Noveske NSR rail barrel nut. With the Wilson Trim rail, spacer shims are also included so you do not have to resort to over torquing the barrel nut to get your rail aligned. Would these shims work with the NSR barrel nut? Maybe or maybe not.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7j.XsNZQDjAANTZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1YjRzbTI2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDAyMl8xNzg-/SIG=120mu3fiv/EXP=1356275991/**http%3a//www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=UckIB7O1PSw
Diver160651A
12-23-12, 07:44
He was full of shit in my opinion. YMMV
Ya, that's why I posted the story!
Here is another solution if you don't have a proper lapping setup
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/rail-accessory-barrel-nut-shim-kit-p-605.html
Ps was on iPad ad did not realize I passed in wrong link
Ya, that's why I posted the story!
Here is another solution if you don't have a proper lapping setup http://www.midwayusa.com/product/710548/advanced-armament-co-aac-barrel-shim-kit-223-remington-556x45mm-ar-15-package-of-6?cm_vc=OBv1299131
Those are for timing a barrels muzzle device, not a proprietary barrel nut. They are not even close to being the correct size and will not work.
Diver160651A
12-23-12, 10:04
Those are for timing a barrels muzzle device, not a proprietary barrel nut. They are not even close to being the correct size and will not work.
Sorry was on iPad and posted wrong link without looking this is the one I meant to post http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/rail-accessory-barrel-nut-shim-kit-p-605.html
Even then, the barrel nut is to hit or miss and this solution or out of spec tightening sucks for a 300 rail ( with key mods )
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Make sure to clean the inside of the barrel nut and the front of the barrel extension. Any grit (or paint) on those surfaces can cause problems. Make sure to grease the front of the barrel extension where the barrel nut engages, not just the upper threads.
To sometimes get a little more rotation you can torque to max and loosen a few more times.
If you cannot get the barrel nut to torque within spec on either side there may be something wrong with it. Please contact us for a replacement before putting excess torque on it.
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