View Full Version : How did the last assault rifle ban in the 90's affect AR owners?
Fonebone Razzmatazz
12-18-12, 06:45
How did the last assault rifle ban in the 90's affect AR owners?
How did it affect those that had already owned these rifles?
Some gutless turds ran around with ARs with no flash hiders or bayo studs...
And imbeciles sold overpriced "pre-ban" Magazines on gunbroker.
It was a completely fukking retarded excersize in futility.
Oh yeah... some idiots really got brave and put "Molon Labe" on their shit... while complying with the ban of course. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah... some idiots really got brave and put "Molon Labe" on their shit... while complying with the ban of course. :rolleyes:
LOL, now there is a sig line!
Swamp Yankee
12-18-12, 07:00
Oh yeah... some idiots really got brave and put "Molon Labe" on their shit... while complying with the ban of course. :rolleyes:
LOL.
The ban is still affecting me. Our state's ban was the model for the federal ban and we are still limited in the features we can have on our rifles. IE: no collapsible stocks, no bayonet lugs, no flash hiders, many popular rifles banned by name, many Colt rifles (although made in CT) banned specifically.
It sucks and it will probobly get worse.
Unrealistic restrictions did nothing to reduce the crime rate from 1994 to 2004 and will do nothing to stem the violence now.
Littlelebowski
12-18-12, 07:47
Unrealistic restrictions did nothing to reduce the crime rate from 1994 to 2004 and will do nothing to stem the violence now.
We know this but that's not what this thread is about.
LOL.
The ban is still affecting me. Our state's ban was the model for the federal ban and we are still limited in the features we can have on our rifles. IE: no collapsible stocks, no bayonet lugs, no flash hiders, many popular rifles banned by name, many Colt rifles (although made in CT) banned specifically.
It sucks and it will probobly get worse.
This post sums it up. It made "evil looking" accessories illegal and did nothing at all to make the purchase of these rifles more difficult in most states.
During the last ban, the aftermarket had not matured to the level it is now. Fixed stocks were far more common, as most GI's were still carrying A1's and A2's. Quality in general was lower at the time of the ban, with Olympic Arms being a 'shaker and mover' in the industry. Everybody thought heavy barrels were the shit...I don't remember any aftermarket AR magazines being notable, or worth a crap. Colt was Colt, but all of their guns took funny pins, and they forgot to put flash hiders on. Glock magazines were in the $100 range.
There are FAR more evil guns on the streets now than there were then, better quality, and more options.
It caused enough concern for me that I sold a perfectly good Colt Sporter H Bar because it had all of the "bad" features. :angry: I have always regretted that. Now I know better.
It caused enough concern for me that I sold a perfectly good Colt Sporter H Bar because it had all of the "bad" features.
I did the opposite. Had to buy "post ban" lowers and "pre ban" uppers to get the appropriate configurations.
As a matter of principle.. I violated the AWB in any and every way I could.
The last AWB banned manufacture of "assault rifles", not possession. Feinstein's bill, as she has described it so far, will ban sale, transfer, and possession. In her bill and in the Clinton AWB, however, the ban is/was proactive, not retroactive. So in answer to your question, if the proposal is as she describes it, it won't affect AR "owners", it will affect AR "buyers".
As I understand it.
What about buying parts, like BCG, barrels, bbl nuts, small springs, etc.? We had quite a stockpile of spare/replacement parts before it happened, so I don't recall how price, availability, etc. was.
How did the last assault rifle ban in the 90's affect AR owners?
How did it affect those that had already owned these rifles?
Depends what state you were in when it hit.
Living in NJ, it was the best thing that could have happened. I believe NJ, not CT, was the state that the AWB was modeled after since NJ had already had an AWB since '89. From '89 to '95 or so, you couldn't get any new manufacture AR style weapon since the manufacturer's didn't make any AWB compliant weapons until the AWB hit.
AR's had either no muzzle device or muzzle brakes/compensators, no flash hiders. Stocks were either fixed or pinned collapsable. Bayonet lugs were shaved off.
For states that didn't already have restrictions, existing weapons were grandfathered in.
Some random thoughts from the period.
IIRC, for AR's, there was the ABC rule. Armalite, Bushmaster & Colt. For whatever reason, at the time, Bushmaster was considered good, whereas these days, they are considered low tier.
Mags got crazy expensive. I don't remember the costs of AR mags, but full capacity Glock mags, that pre AWB were normally $15 or so, went to $40 and over. I remember dropping $200 for 5 Glock 22 mags. 10rnd mags designed for pistols as an afterthought for pistols holding 13+ rounds.....suck.
The Armalite AR10 came out during the ban and was designed to utilize M14 mags with an additional notch cut out. The idea was that there were a ton of high cap M14 mags in the market and could be legally used. This kind of hurt them later on when the ban ended, as the true AR10 mag that KAC/DPMS/LaRue/MagPul used has really become the standard. Armalite now makes a MagPul mag friendly version of their AR10.
I don't normally pray. I pray that we don't get a repeat of the '94 AWB or worse.
The last ban drove prices up in my area. Once the ban expired in 2004 the prices dropped a little, but not as much as they increased when the ban first started.
Those who expected the market to be flooded in 2004 with rifles that were purchased in 1994 before the ban were disappointed. Magazine prices at vendors did return to reasonable prices though.
I believe that any legislation passed will be more draconian than the 1994 ban.
Njbudman81
12-18-12, 08:39
There isn't a doubt in my mind a ban is on the way. I just hope it grandfathers in current owners
There isn't a doubt in my mind a ban is on the way. I just hope it grandfathers in current owners
It would be absolutely mind-blowing and extremely unlikely (IMO) to have a retroactive ban.
Rarely does this occur in government, but let's hope a little common sense is within the gov discussions regarding this subject. A look back through history and statistics that prove these types of bans do literally nothing to prevent these tragedies would be helpful as well.
Get your bayonet lugs NOW!!!!! :D
The ban will do nothing except put more money in the pockets of people selling guns and ammunition. When Obama took office in 2008 gun show here in florida had his picture on the wall with the caption "Gun Salesman Of The Year"!! Same thing will happen now if it hasn't already happened.
Kickin-Ewoks
12-18-12, 09:27
The last AWB banned manufacture of "assault rifles", not possession. Feinstein's bill, as she has described it so far, will ban sale, transfer, and possession. In her bill and in the Clinton AWB, however, the ban is/was proactive, not retroactive. So in answer to your question, if the proposal is as she describes it, it won't affect AR "owners", it will affect AR "buyers".
As I understand it.
I think what the Swamp Ape is saying is the "possession ban" will not be retroactive in that we will not be prosecuted for currently owning "assault weapons". However; this bill will include a "no grandfathering clause", so after a allotted amount of time to turn in your guns and accessories , it will become illegal for you to possess banned firearms, no matter when you bought them.
Obviously; this will be the structure of the bill that will be submitted, but not necessarily the structure of the bill signed in to law.
I'm sure there will be an AWB; however, I think it will be closer to the 1994 AWB than a full blown possession ban. This is just my opinion based information vomited by the Swamp Ape.
RogerinTPA
12-18-12, 09:41
It was effin bad. Prices on all things firearms were surreal. The one thing that really sticks out in my mind was the $50 and above prices on pistol mags, and the fact that gun shops were removing one of the two mags that came with your pistol and reselling them back to the buyers at the mentioned prices. When ask about the one mag, everyone of them stated that they are only shipped with one mag, while coincidentally having a display case full of the mags you needed for the pistols they sold. Large cap AR mags became vapor ware. If you could find them, they ****ed you on the price. At the time, I actually hated gun stores because of the 'fleece the buyer at all cost' attitude. We'll see that shit again if a AWB passes. If you haven't been stocking up in the past five years, you are WAY behind the power curve.
Kickin-Ewoks
12-18-12, 09:48
I love how the law is already passed in everyones' head.
President would be so proud of you clowns. :rolleyes:
So you're saying all we have to do is believe really really hard that this law will never happen and it'll be so?
So you're saying all we have to do is believe really really hard that this law will never happen and it'll be so?
No. Last I checked there's a process by which a law is created...
But if we concede that a law is coming instead of fighting bad policy that has never worked, it makes is so much easier for the Politicians to actually make this happen.
Meanwhile the fiscal cliff is rapidly approaching...
Submariner
12-18-12, 09:57
My approach was to buy Colt parts (remember YTM, You The Man) to make into different uppers for the lowers on hand. When the ban ended, I bought lower receivers.
Ah...the good ol' days. Hi-cap mags were smuggled off bases in droves, showing up at surplus dealers. The best ones were bought up and re-finished. Permaslik G sprayed on, new springs and followers installed. It was a regular black market operation nationwide. I was at Fort Hood for a few days once while traveling and went to some of the surplus joints off base. They had thousands of mags still in original contractor wrap and arsenal cases. Certainly some soldiers were supplementing their pay with their car trunks loaded with goodies.
I'm sure we'll see those days again with a healthy black market returning.
OH58D
Kickin-Ewoks
12-18-12, 10:13
No. Last I checked there's a process by which a law is created...
But if we concede that a law is coming instead of fighting bad policy that has never worked, it makes is so much easier for the Politicians to actually make this happen.
I hear you and you are right.
How long are yall expecting the turn around to be on this ban actually getting passed?
How long are yall expecting the turn around to be on this ban actually getting passed?
Maybe Lady Ga ga will take a dump on stage and every pea brained idiot in this country will forget about gun bans. :confused:
The one thing that really sticks out in my mind was the $50 and above prices on pistol mags, and the fact that gun shops were removing one of the two mags that came with your pistol and reselling them back to the buyers at the mentioned prices. When ask about the one mag, everyone of them stated that they are only shipped with one mag, while coincidentally having a display case full of the mags you needed for the pistols they sold.
Shit i have some LGS's that are still practicing this kind of rape. I was at the gun counter last week and i asked how many mags their Glock Gen4's come with. The counter commando said that everyone has cheapened up and that every pistol is only coming with one now days. But it was coincidental that he had many factory magazines without packaging on the rack. I called him out on that bullshit in front of his customers saying that they come with 3 from the factory. Needless to say i wont be purchasing anything from that particular store.
Maybe Lady Ga ga will take a dump on stage and every pea brained idiot in this country will forget about gun bans. :confused:
Glorious...
Overt racist commentary has been deleted, in originals posts and those that chose to quote them.
The "Deragatory Remarks" apsect shown in the Posting Rules is not limited to commentary directed at M4C members.
Glorious...
That's about the attention span of many of the idiots in our country any more... :rolleyes:
Maybe it was just my neck of the woods, but it seemed like 90% of the ARs I saw from the late-90s to 2004 were Bushmaster.
I wasnt into ARs then as I was in the Navy with not alot free time.
My only experience was at the end of it being able to buy LEO only marked HK USP45 mags.
Maybe it was just my neck of the woods, but it seemed like 90% of the ARs I saw from the late-90s to 2004 were Bushmaster.
Alot of the companies we have today didnt exist during the ban
Two things I remember
1. I didn't believe it was going to pass....but then it did
2. Trying to get a weapon to reliably function with 10 rounds in the mag
was almost impossible. They were so afraid that someone would
actually squeeze an 11th round in that they were waaay too tight
The_War_Wagon
12-18-12, 11:33
Meanwhile the fiscal cliff is rapidly approaching...
Pffft... TIM - MAH! still has the printing presses, and PLENTY of paper - we'll be fine... :rolleyes:
I had a pre-ban, Eagle Arms, EA-15. so it had no effect on me except I could not find AR-mags in the Civilian market place.
That's about the attention span of many of the idiots in our country any more... :rolleyes:
I know haha, that's why I enjoyed that comment so much! If something of that nature happened, they would try to ban defecating, or concerts...
You either paid increased prices for anything pre-ban or you bought firearms that had none of the "evil features". Problem is I am sure with any future ban it will not have a "sunset/expiration clause" like the 1994 ban did and it will be much more draconian since the banners have learned their lessons (i.e. they won't allow the building of nutured weapons). One major concern I have is whether a new ban would forbid any future transfer of the preban items which means once you die your preban items would have to be destroyed/confiscated. I don't put anything out of bounds with the current panic ongoing. I will bet a significant number of the small manufacturers/assembliers will go out of business. Hopefully I will be wrong.
I had bought a Bushmaster HBar 20in A2 when I graduated in 2003. Being that I worked in a machine shop, and having family that is a very qualified 'Smith(Colorado Gunsmithing Techinical School grad), we would literally thread every single barrel on any AR someone bought. He had a ton of A2 flash hiders from before the ban.
MelloYellow
12-18-12, 12:24
Buy mag springs and good followers... no need for 100 mags. 10 mags with 100 springs and followers is just fine. At least one AR might be good too.
Buy mag springs and good followers... no need for 100 mags. 10 mags with 100 springs and followers is just fine. At least one AR might be good too.
Feed lips do wear out and crack. Maybe some back up aluminum mag bodies.
Feed lips do wear out and crack. Maybe some back up aluminum mag bodies.
Exactly. I have an assortment of metal, polymer and Lancers which are both
10 mags with 100 springs and followers is just fine. At least one AR might be good too.
I would be bored at the range with that pathetic load out. :nono:
Doc. Holiday
12-18-12, 13:01
I like loading only a few mags so it can help me watch how many rounds I'm going through. I have accidentally shot too many rounds on numerous occasions because I kept loading all my mags and didn't realize what my round count was until I noticed how light my range bag was when I was finished. :sad:
Buy mag springs and good followers... no need for 100 mags. 10 mags with 100 springs and followers is just fine. At least one AR might be good too.
Ten mags. Good one. I bring 25-30 to classes so I can spend less time jamming mags and more time listening/shooting.
I like loading only a few mags so it can help me watch how many rounds I'm going through. I have accidentally shot too many rounds on numerous occasions because I kept loading all my mags and didn't realize what my round count was until I noticed how light my range bag was when I was finished. :sad:
We just made that switch over after Sunday's shoot....
I'm like... Pappabear... we aren't bringing a dozen loaded mags out anymore.... it's too easy to just burn through ammo.
black22rifle
12-18-12, 13:46
what kind of penalties were there if you were caught adding a flash hider to a post ban barrel of changing mags from 10 rounds to 30?
what kind of penalties were there if you were caught adding a flash hider to a post ban barrel of changing mags from 10 rounds to 30?
No one, to my knowledge, ever got popped for anything.
There was one moron on ARF way back when.. who claimed he got post ban LE mags in a deal he'd made to buy prebans.....
He called ATF in typical ARF brilliance fashion... ATF said big whoop... enjoy the mags.
what kind of penalties were there if you were caught adding a flash hider to a post ban barrel of changing mags from 10 rounds to 30?
No one, to my knowledge, ever got popped for anything.
I only ran across one local LE guy who said "nice preban" about my rifle... didn't check or anything retarded.
There was one moron on ARF way back when.. who claimed he got post ban LE mags in a deal he'd made to buy prebans.....
He called ATF in typical ARF brilliance fashion... ATF said big whoop... enjoy the mags.
Doc. Holiday
12-18-12, 14:24
I was having a few convos with some folks and a few of them asked me if the gov would ever say, "K boys, turn in all assault weapons!" I told them I would seriously doubt that would ever happen. What do you guys think? Do you think it would ever come down to that?
94 was the true death of good deals at gun shows .Mags for any pistol that held more then 10 rounds tripled in price .The Ak-47 style weapons made the news more that the AR .
70 dollar SKS went to 150 -200
I bought my first Colt sporter for 500 and in 94 saw the same rifle for 2000 dollars .
I never once was hassled by Police when I was out shooting Most times I would let them pop a few rounds and they went on their way with a grin .I had all the evil features and not one word was said .
Some of My friends that were LE did not even know or understand the rules of the Ban and most said they didn't even care "because it did nothing to help stop crime"
johnpuga1982
12-18-12, 14:31
Buy mag springs and good followers... no need for 100 mags. 10 mags with 100 springs and followers is just fine. At least one AR might be good too.
Feed lips do wear out and crack. Maybe some back up aluminum mag bodies.
I store a few magazines without the followers and springs installed.
It is possible for them to make possession of semi autos illegal. It would not be the first time this country created a massive criminal class through regulation. They did it with alcohol...let's hope our constitutional rights don't get trampled baby this socialist regime.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
I was having a few convos with some folks and a few of them asked me if the gov would ever say, "K boys, turn in all assault weapons!" I told them I would seriously doubt that would ever happen. What do you guys think? Do you think it would ever come down to that?
Yes sir I do.
Kickin-Ewoks
12-18-12, 15:53
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1860962.proteus.fma
I know this is a diversion from the question posed, but I am dismayed by the gloom and doom that I am hearing on this and various other gun boards.
Another "assault weapons ban" is only certain if we allow it to happen. Instead of talking on gun boards about how much things are going to suck, what if we started engaging in meaningful dialogue with family and friends who may not know a great deal about this issue? What if we discussed with them how "assault weapons" are in fact firearms of intermediate power. Or the fact that an unused shotgun was in Adam Lanza's car--a weapon that could have easily been used to kill just as many innocent children as the "assault rifle". Or how the Gun-Free School Zones Act has advertised to madmen since 1990 that there is a place where they can murder our children without fear of opposition.
And how about we each resolve to write to our elected representatives? Last time I checked, a largely pro-gun party has a majority in the House of Representatives. They will only hold the line if we make it clear that their careers are dependent upon it.
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1860962.proteus.fma
Finally something good to read in our defense. Almost felt defeated. GO NRA!
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1860962.proteus.fma
Finally something good to read in our defense. Almost felt defeated. GO NRA! Like waiting For your big brother to come beat up the bully!
On a slight tangent -- what officially had to happen to all the "high capacity magazines" in California after their 1989 AWB? Were people forced to get rid of them [or hide them], register them, etc?
Doc Safari
12-18-12, 16:51
94 was the true death of good deals at gun shows .Mags for any pistol that held more then 10 rounds tripled in price .The Ak-47 style weapons made the news more that the AR .
70 dollar SKS went to 150 -200
I bought my first Colt sporter for 500 and in 94 saw the same rifle for 2000 dollars .
I remember crappy Romanian ROMAK AK's going for $600 each.
I basically put my Colt AR's in storage and shot my Bushmasters. This led to the unintended consequence of my thinking all AR's were unreliable because all I ever shot were my jam-o-matic Bushies.
It took joining this forum for me to see the error of my ways.
I was having a few convos with some folks and a few of them asked me if the gov would ever say, "K boys, turn in all assault weapons!" I told them I would seriously doubt that would ever happen. What do you guys think? Do you think it would ever come down to that?
Yes sir I do.
Man, I sure hope that's not the case.
How did the last assault rifle ban in the 90's affect AR owners?...
It's not that the AWB affected AR owners - it's what made new AR/FAL/AK owners out of millions. Unintended consequences - same as is happening right now.
I seriously doubt it will go through this time. A ban on super hi-cap magazines might.
I still shudder when I think about prices I paid for pre-ban hi-cap magazines back then. I think the worst example was nearly $100 for a mag for my Sig (including shipping). The thing is, I had so many 10 shot mags for my pistols I never really bought many full capacity models after the ban was lifted. Looks like I need to fix that sooner rather than later. Looks like history is going to repeat itself again.
warlord260
12-18-12, 18:24
I was thinking of the lawmakers, all which i assume have body guards.
Would they like all of them to be limited to 10 rnd magazines?
I think not!
Gahunter12
12-18-12, 18:52
I know this is a diversion from the question posed, but I am dismayed by the gloom and doom that I am hearing on this and various other gun boards.
Another "assault weapons ban" is only certain if we allow it to happen. Instead of talking on gun boards about how much things are going to suck, what if we started engaging in meaningful dialogue with family and friends who may not know a great deal about this issue? What if we discussed with them how "assault weapons" are in fact firearms of intermediate power. Or the fact that an unused shotgun was in Adam Lanza's car--a weapon that could have easily been used to kill just as many innocent children as the "assault rifle". Or how the Gun-Free School Zones Act has advertised to madmen since 1990 that there is a place where they can murder our children without fear of opposition.
And how about we each resolve to write to our elected representatives? Last time I checked, a largely pro-gun party has a majority in the House of Representatives. They will only hold the line if we make it clear that their careers are dependent upon it.
Yep. I have been talking to family, and friends since this went down. I also post facts on FB about the Clinton Ban, and the results of Gun Control. I have a Brother n Law that spent 14yrs in the Army before being honorably discharged due to a medical condition. He's one of the biggest AWB supporters I have ever seen. He says only active duty, and Police need guns. I have provided him with facts, but he doesnt care on bit. This will be a interesting Christmas.
There's no use trying to predict or extrapolate a potential AWB with the previous AWB.
FWIW, parts were available in abundance during the last ban. You just couldn't find a post '94 manufactured AR with collapsible stock, bayo lug, threaded muzzle, 30 round mags, etc.
What's funny was that you could walk into a store and see a "pre ban" Oly Arms carbine for $2000 displayed right next to a "post ban" Bushmaster carbine with fixed A2 and bare muzzle for $700.
These were the days when Colt made large hole receivers and sear blocks to prevent compatibility with milspec uppers and FA fire control parts. Bushmaster was the "closest" thing to milspec in those days, and they flaunted it.
FChen17213
12-18-12, 20:12
Hey, I liked my Bushmasters back in the day. We didn't have much of a choice back then. Either Colt large hole or Bushy or Armalite. I also didn't shoot a whole lot back then.
I remember when 30 round beat up mags were going for 30 dollars a piece, and I was happy just to have some unreliable POS 30 round mags. What is funny is that you could find and buy pre-89 ban AKs for about $1000 back then. Even a year or two ago, a good Polytech Legend AK is fetching close to 2k.
I honestly don't know how this new AWB will play out, but I suspect that it will be much worse.
One other interesting thing to know guys. Colt made 134 "preban" 6721s. They were the only factory Colt Carbines that had a flattop receiver and collapsible stock that were ownable by civilians. They were able to get 134 of them before the ban I believe. They had the HBAR and 1:9 barrel twist rate. You guys care to guess how much they were going for if you could find one? About $7000! I also remember pretty much memorizing a crapload of gun serial numbers and manufacture dates. We all knew all the Colt stuff about Green Label, Yellow Label, and Pre-ban Blue Label. I also memorized serial numbers like Colt MH prefix was pre-ban while MT prefix was post ban. I still remember with Bushy, I knew the exact range of guns that were definitely preban and what range was definitely postban and what would require a call to Bushmaster to verify.
Bought my 3rd AR two months before the '94 ban went into effect. It was a Colt Government Carbine with the pencil barrel. That one has been my only Safe Queen, still unfired in the box.
It kept me out of the AR market, sad to say. At the time I didn't know anyone who was into them and so I didn't know the loopholes or how to work around the ban. When I saw $600 Bushmasters start selling for $1800 at the LGS, I just decided to buy lots of shotgun ammo and get really proficient with my Mossberg. Still took me a while after the ban sunsetted to get into the AR platform. Wish I had done it sooner.
Prices were higher across the board. I gladly paid $50 for Glock, Beretta, and SIG pistol mags. I bought every Colt 30 round AR15 mag I found at $40 or below. Pre-94 AR15s were $2k'ish.
SIG 550 mags were $75-150 each. The list goes on and on.
ScottieG59
12-18-12, 22:29
When the ban kicked in, I was in the Army stationed overseas. I really did not notice the ban at all. I had purchased many firearms over the years and I went a long time not in the market. I spent a lot of time with my M16A2 and the ammo was free. I learned to like the M16 but I was not interested in owning until after the ban ended anyway. I looked at AK47 variants, but I thought they were overpriced.
59_Gretsch
12-18-12, 22:49
It's not that the AWB affected AR owners - it's what made new AR/FAL/AK owners out of millions. Unintended consequences - same as is happening right now.
Very true. Speaking of untended consequences, I wonder how much cash is trading hands right now. Berry's unintentional stimulus plan perhaps? I bet they beat their chest come January about how good retail sales were.
Gahunter12
12-18-12, 23:39
Yea, but what about the unemployment that will follow a ban? Wonder if the companies that build aftermarket parts will have to shut down production? I have 2 Colts, and 3 complete lowers now with 2 uppers/BCG's on the way soon I hope. Now I'm starting to think about buying a couple LPK's, spare BCG (if I can find one), and some mag springs/followers. I should be ok with the mags I have. I sold off 15 last month, and replenished with 15 new mags, plus I picked up 5 new mags last Friday that I don't intend to open til I need them. Ammo doesn't concern me since I spent the entire year reloading, and storing away. That's not counting the boxes of bulk .223,.40, and .45 bullets I have waiting to be loaded.
I'm not sure how to take this possible ban, or what I should be doing to prepare. I don't want to over prepare like I did with reloading supplies in 2008, but I don't want to pay $100 for mags.
This thread has lots of good information about the state of the AR world during the ban. Thanks for posting.
About the companies that might shut down if a similar AWB is passed: Would Magpul survive without civilian sales?
Larry Vickers
12-19-12, 00:22
My gut feeling is we will be damn lucky if the new ban is a mirror image of the Clinton ban but with no sunset
A couple days ago my buddy Hackathorn and I were talking on the phone and he felt that no new AWB would come out of this; today we compared notes and we are both 100% convinced there will in fact be a new AWB and we will extremely fortunate if it is a carbon copy of the last one
I really hope I am wrong but I seriously doubt it
Lets just pray we don't get another copycat killer feeding off the endless media coverage/explotation of this tragic event; if that were to happen then we are truly screwed
LAV
About the companies that might shut down if a similar AWB is passed: Would Magpul survive without civilian sales?
As long as they make 5 round PMAGs...
This thread has lots of good information about the state of the AR world during the ban. Thanks for posting.
About the companies that might shut down if a similar AWB is passed: Would Magpul survive without civilian sales?
Perhaps they could branch out into selling 30 round rebuild kits. Did such a thing exist during the 94 ban? It was before my time mostly.
My gut feeling is we will be damn lucky if the new ban is a mirror image of the Clinton ban but with no sunset
A couple days ago my buddy Hackathorn and I were talking on the phone and he felt that no new AWB would come out of this; today we compared notes and we are both 100% convinced there will in fact be a new AWB and we will extremely fortunate if it is a carbon copy of the last one
I really hope I am wrong but I seriously doubt it
Lets just pray we don't get another copycat killer feeding off the endless media coverage/explotation of this tragic event; if that were to happen then we are truly screwed
LAV
Looks like Larry gave in.
I remember going to a gun show in York PA back in early 2000. One stall had all of the Colts, blue label, green label and so forth. If I remember correctly, prices were anywhere from $2 grand to $2500 depending on which model. Ammo however, was relatively cheap. I didn't have an AR back then, but I did have a few Aks and 7.62x39 per case was in the $120-$140 range. No clue on parts, except magazines of course. Who can forget $50-60 Glock and Sig mags and Ak hi caps were $30 maybe if you were lucky.
Littlelebowski
12-19-12, 06:15
Looks like Larry gave in.
Gave in to what?
1371USMCFL
12-19-12, 06:24
Looks like Larry gave in.
It's not giving in as much as it is a analysis of the situation. This isn't a situation where the firearms community is getting treed by a chihuahua, it's more of a herd of rabid sheep.
Littlelebowski
12-19-12, 06:29
It's not giving in as much as it is a analysis of the situation. This isn't a situation where the firearms community is getting treed by a chihuahua, it's more of a herd of rabid sheep.
Yup.
I don't think this guy knows LAV very well.
I think I'd agree with the LAV's analysis. Everybody thought that gun control was the third rail of politics, but the tide is turning. We're gonna be lucky if it's only as bad as the last AWB. Not that I agree with it...I think "shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says...but feelings and propaganda are trumping logic and facts right now.
Looks like Larry gave in.
It looks like Larry has a good grasp of the situation. The situation is very tense right now. I would expect that the 94 ban is just the starting point.
The masses want action, even if we all know that a new ban would not prevent a tragedy in the future.
I think what we really need are guys like LAV to be at the forefront of this fight showing a good responsible face to the world on our behalf.
We need representation in this fight now more than ever.
I don't know the man, but I sure hope he's not residing to his lazy boy to watch it all unfold.
We need less of the crazies and more of the LAVs out there
7.62WildBill
12-19-12, 06:42
Yup.
I don't think this guy knows LAV very well.
+1...lol.
As far as the new ban, I think we will see a bigger version of the last ban. I don't think we will have to physically hand over anything we already possess due to the sheer logistics.
+1...lol.
As far as the new ban, I think we will see a bigger version of the last ban. I don't think we will have to physically hand over anything we already possess due to the sheer logistics.
I'm somewhat worried about them completely outlawing certain guns or features, simply making it a felony to possess them. So basically, even though they won't go door to door or anything, your possession of those items leaves you open to being turned in by your own friends and neighbors. At that point it's almost as good as outright confiscation to the gun-grabbers.
I just wish that pro gun advocates would do a better job telling the media the statistics on how many times each day citizens use firearms to protect themselves. At least a couple hundred times a day citizens lives are saved because of firearms. This should be said everytime a camera is put in the face of any pro gun advocate. This is the type of info. that your average non gun person will grasp and undestand. But sadly, I have yet to hear it.
I do not see how it would be enforceable if there was a no grandfathering clause. I mean we can not even secure our borders and out country is broke so I do not see how they will be able to go door to door and take our evil rilfes. Think of all the ARs, Mini 14s, FALs, AKs, etc are out there. It would cost the country billions to enforce a no grandfathering clause; money which it does not have.
I fear a Clinton style AWB but I see no way there can be a no grandfathering clause, which would be my greatest fear.
If this has already been asked I am sorry but during the last AWB ( I was not old enough to own guns during the time so do not remember specifics) but how were parts like BCG, lower rec. parts, pistol grips etc. affected by the ban. Were these still being made and able to be purchased?
One other reason the ban will suck is think of all the people who work for gun manufactures, gun accessory companies, distributors, local gun shops, trainers, online dealers, etc. there will be no need for a lot of companies to even exist those that do will have no reason to keep on their current # of employees putting lots of people out of work. While the shooting in Conn was terrible, while it has and will continue for a few more days to be the hot topic, this country's biggest issue is by far still a struggling economy. What damage would all these people losing what in most cases are good paying jobs have on our struggling economy?
What these idiots calling for an AWB do not remember is the last ban had no affect on the murder rate or school violence but on the contrary. School shootings really blew up in the late 90's when there was an AWB. Columbine was in 99 when there was an AWB. If this idiot who went into Newtown had been armed with a weapon that would not have been banned by the last AWB such as a pump shotgun or a lever action rifle the death toll would have been if not exactly the same them darn close.
catargadelendaest
12-19-12, 08:40
I do not see how it would be enforceable if there was a no grandfathering clause. I mean we can not even secure our borders and out country is broke so I do not see how they will be able to go door to door and take our evil rilfes. Think of all the ARs, Mini 14s, FALs, AKs, etc are out there. It would cost the country billions to enforce a no grandfathering clause; money which it does not have.
I fear a Clinton style AWB but I see no way there can be a no grandfathering clause, which would be my greatest fear.
If this has already been asked I am sorry but during the last AWB ( I was not old enough to own guns during the time so do not remember specifics) but how were parts like BCG, lower rec. parts, pistol grips etc. affected by the ban. Were these still being made and able to be purchased?
One other reason the ban will suck is think of all the people who work for gun manufactures, gun accessory companies, distributors, local gun shops, trainers, online dealers, etc. there will be no need for a lot of companies to even exist those that do will have no reason to keep on their current # of employees putting lots of people out of work. While the shooting in Conn was terrible, while it has and will continue for a few more days to be the hot topic, this country's biggest issue is by far still a struggling economy. What damage would all these people losing what in most cases are good paying jobs have on our struggling economy?
What these idiots calling for an AWB do not remember is the last ban had no affect on the murder rate or school violence but on the contrary. School shootings really blew up in the late 90's when there was an AWB. Columbine was in 99 when there was an AWB. If this idiot who went into Newtown had been armed with a weapon that would not have been banned by the last AWB such as a pump shotgun or a lever action rifle the death toll would have been if not exactly the same them darn close.
Regarding enforceability, it's easily enforceable by prosecutorial discretion. Someone above said virtually the same thing when he said the threat of prosecution was enough. Think about it. If you had an illegal cannon in your home, how less likely would you be to allow others to know that you own such a thing? No playing with it, no displaying it, no use of it for personal defense in an otherwise justifiable circumstance (I understand where the analogy is weak.) Most cannons would be stored or lost, rarely to be seen again except when a nutjob went suicidal.
Regarding what "idiots do not remember," they don't care. Whether they remember or even know these things you cite they really do not care about these easily established facts. Facts that do not fit their agenda are ignored or perverted by them to whatever extent they find necessary. Sometimes it's self delusion. Sometimes it's from cold calculation. Either way, the facts really do not matter to them.
Doc. Holiday
12-19-12, 08:52
I personally don't think that they are going to go door to door asking for our guns at this point. I say at this point because I could see someone as crazy as Obama to try and do something like that. I think at that point, civil war would occur.
I would Like to see all the Big firearms Companies Colt ,BCM so on Come together and stand up for their industry and customers has anyone talked to Paul at BCM ? they will lose thousands of jobs and millions of dollars Now is the time to unite
Doc. Holiday
12-19-12, 09:14
They said that if they did another ban, we will loose another 200,000 jobs. Way to go Obama for creating new jobs! :rolleyes:
Doc Safari
12-19-12, 09:14
I do not see how it would be enforceable if there was a no grandfathering clause. I mean we can not even secure our borders and out country is broke so I do not see how they will be able to go door to door and take our evil rilfes.
They are not that stupid. Instead they will find a way to tax you for having them, or otherwise make it inconvenient for you to continue to own them so that you will eventually cave and give them up voluntarily.
If they restrict them like NFA weapons for example, it will cause the price of pre-existing ones to skyrocket, while simultaneously making the hassle of buying/selling/owning such a pain that most people won't do it.
There are still major roadblocks on the road to a new assault weapons ban. Some high-profile politicians have defected to the other side, but that may not be enough.
As Eugene Volokh pointed out in Why It's Hard to Prevent Mass Shootings (http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/18/why-its-hard-to-prevent-mass-shootings/), 50% of the country believes that stricter gun control laws would not have prevented the Newtown massacre. Only 26% were sure that they would.
There is also a Republican majority in the House, along with many Democrats who will be uncomfortable voting for a new assault weapons ban. The further we get away from the tragedy, the more logic will come into the debate.
Write to your legislators. If we fight this, we might lose. If we don't fight it, we will surely lose.
There are still major roadblocks on the road to a new assault weapons ban. Some high-profile politicians have defected to the other side, but that may not be enough.
As Eugene Volokh pointed out in Why It's Hard to Prevent Mass Shootings (http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/18/why-its-hard-to-prevent-mass-shootings/), 50% of the country believes that stricter gun control laws would not have prevented the Newtown massacre. Only 26% were sure that they would.
There is also a Republican majority in the House, along with many Democrats who will be uncomfortable voting for a new assault weapons ban. The further we get away from the tragedy, the more logic will come into the debate.
Write to your legislators. If we fight this, we might lose. If we don't fight it, we will surely lose.
Nice to see some real logic in light of the panic mentality.
You forget who we're up against - it's not congress and the house I'm worried about. It's mr executive order that's trigger happy.
Chicago has the highest rate of children murdered by firearms, and they have the strictest gun laws in the country.
It doesn't work. None of it. NFA, GCA, NCIS - it just makes law abiding people suffer for nothing. People who want guns get guns.
If I could shoot a felon with a gun and not be arrested, tried, or even detained, I wouldn't care if he/she had one. We need the fear on the right side of justice - we're a nation being choked by ineffective laws and they're precisely why we're in the shape we're in. The criminals are gloating because we're more afraid of what will happen to us if we take them out, than we are of them.
No. Last I checked there's a process by which a law is created...
Did you see how obummerCare got rammed through? The Dems flouted every norm and procedure in the book to make it so.
Did you see how obummerCare got rammed through? The Dems flouted every norm and procedure in the book to make it so.
They also had a majority in both chambers of Congress. That is no longer the case.
I am not a blind optimist, but I do believe that in moments of crisis, the people who identify with our cause have a tendency to underestimate their strength.
I don't think we will have to physically hand over anything we already possess due to the sheer logistics.
Even if they say we have to, I'm not going to.
Just like this latest shooting incident vaulted an AWB into the spotlight, God forbid there will soon be another disaster like Katrina, Fukishima, tsunami, 911, three mile island, BP gulf oil platform disaster, global warming, Watergate, and the list goes on that will take over the news medias attention and largely dampen the panic to make quick new AW bans.
- They want/need to destroy the industry.
- We live in a post-modern and feminized culture - period. America is ball-less - at least it is getting that way.
- MANY Americans want to be like Europe - a completely neutered society. Till 20 years from now, when the Taliban dictates to them.
- Prohibition was insane, irrational, unconstitutional, etc. But it was DONE and it WAS the 1920's. Emotion ruled, and who started that?
- Prohibition was insane, irrational, unconstitutional, etc. But it was DONE and it WAS the 1920's. Emotion ruled, and who started that?
If we do our part in contacting and educating the right people, emotion won't rule the day when this comes up for a vote.
Doc. Holiday
12-19-12, 12:32
That's if they even allow anyone to vote. We are practically a socialist economy anyway...
They are not that stupid. Instead they will find a way to tax you for having them, or otherwise make it inconvenient for you to continue to own them so that you will eventually cave and give them up voluntarily.
If they restrict them like NFA weapons for example, it will cause the price of pre-existing ones to skyrocket, while simultaneously making the hassle of buying/selling/owning such a pain that most people won't do it.
I agree with you. I would expect to see heavy taxation as a part of the plan. Like anything else, heavy taxation will take its toll on the law abiding citizens of this country.
The last one was a pain in the ass. Prices went very high for rifles and for all sorts of magazines.
As I understand the new magazine ban being introduced and ramrodded through - all sales of magazines over 10 rounds will not be able to be sold or transferred. It looks like you can keep what you have prior to signing of the bill.
Today on CSPAN Nancy Pelosi called them "high capacity massacre clips". I strongly urge every member of this site to write his or her congressman now/today. This bill may get voted on Friday. :angry:
This bill may get voted on Friday. :angry:
No. Obama want is boy, Brainless Joe to come up with a proposal by January. :rolleyes:
My gut feeling is we will be damn lucky if the new ban is a mirror image of the Clinton ban but with no sunset
A couple days ago my buddy Hackathorn and I were talking on the phone and he felt that no new AWB would come out of this; today we compared notes and we are both 100% convinced there will in fact be a new AWB and we will extremely fortunate if it is a carbon copy of the last one
I really hope I am wrong but I seriously doubt it
Lets just pray we don't get another copycat killer feeding off the endless media coverage/explotation of this tragic event; if that were to happen then we are truly screwed
LAV
I fully agree. I also think another tragic event will happen sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, we need armed guards at schools right away.
The Magazine ban (https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr308) is the precursor and its getting voted on soon - maybe friday. More will follow in January. Senator Diane Fienstien stated that the AWB II will be prospective rather than retroactive. POPVOX enables you to weigh in on bills. I'm using it.https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr308
Doc. Holiday
12-19-12, 13:03
I was talking about that with a guy here at work. I was telling him that if Obama wants to create more jobs, then pass a law that makes it that every public and private schools in the U.S have armed guards patroling. It's not enough to just have a cop at a high school here an there.
Dave James
12-19-12, 13:10
I don't have permisson to post in gen discussion, but feel this is worthy for all, concerning the "ban" I found this on another isite but it is well reasoned and thought out:
Senator , I want to write to you in the hopes that you will oppose any future assault weapons ban, such as that being discussed by Senator Feinstein. Although I am not aware of any specific proposals yet, it is likely that any new assault weapons ban (AWB) will be similar to the last, implemented under President Clinton.
Assuming the goal is to actually reduce the number of homicides and mass murders in this country, a new AWB will be nothing more than a wasted opportunity. The last ban had restrictions on the capacity of new magazines, restricting them to no more than ten rounds, and any new proposal will likely contain this as well. The tragic shooting at Columbine Highschool took place while the previous AWB was in effect. The shooters, instead of modifying their magazines to carry additional rounds (something remarkably easy to do, especially considering the shooters were able to illegally shorten their shotgun below the legal length), decided to bring with them thirteen, ten-round magazines. Clearly, magazine restrictions did not stop crime, nor will they in the future.
The second, main prong of the previous AWB was a restriction on various cosmetic features of rifles, for instance, flash suppressors and bayonet mounts. I understand that many deem these to be military accouterments with little to no civilian purpose, but that does not make these features inherently dangerous, nor does it make a rifle sporting such features any more lethal. In fact, the Department of Justice concluded, in a study of the previous assault weapons ban (accessible here http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re...w_exec2004.pdf), that these provisions “target…a relatively small number of weapons based on features that have little to do with the weapons’ operation, and removing those features is sufficient to make the weapon legal.” What’s more, the Justice Department concluded that, viewed as a whole, a reinstatement of the AWB would have such a miniscule effect on crime as to be “too small for measurement.”
I implore you to please show vigorous opposition to any new AWB. It is a wasted opportunity to take real action in reducing gun violence. Strengthen the background check system by requiring stronger reporting from universities (which may have caught the V-Tech killer, as he was diagnosed by his school with mental illness and charged by the school with harassment and stalking) and mental health institutions; require background checks on private gun sales, or allow private individuals to perform checks on the buyer without having to transfer the firearm through a licensed dealer; most importantly, strengthen the mental health system to provide better care upfront to those members of society who fall through the cracks of our understaffed and overworked mental health system. I know that reasonable measures can be reached; reasonable in that the second amendment and the individual right to own and carry a gun is protected (something extremely important to me and many other North Carolinians), and yet reasonable in that steps to reduce unnecessary and preventable gun violence are taken. I hope that you will pray over this issue, and carefully consider an appropriate response to these continuing tragedies. I would love to hear back from you about this issue, whether through a public statement on gun control or a private message to me. Thank you for your service Senator.
Littlelebowski
12-19-12, 13:10
No. Obama want is boy, Brainless Joe to come up with a proposal by January. :rolleyes:
I thought it was end of January.
Let's look at the bright side. If Biden is in charge we could end up with a ban on "salt rifles" or "salted weapons".
As a cop for 15 years, all I can tell you is I've seen a few murders or shootings with an AR, AK, and or SKS (*which might I add were stolen guns to begin with). The overwhelming majority of shootings I deal with the weapons are Jennings, Hi Points, Ravens, single barrel shotguns, single shot .22 rifles, and anything that can shoot that is stolen from a lawful owner. From January 2012 to November 2012 there has been 354 murders in Detroit. Was this from, let me get this straight "semi automatic assault rifles"? Nope, mostly from low grade Saturday night specials.
As far as the ban that I remember, I was 24 at the time and was poor. I remember crazy prices. I remember people telling me they had an AR or two and would consider them rich. $2,000 in 1994 is like $3,500 - $4,000 in 2012 money (*Not exactly, but also add in more demand now than back then). I do see those as the starting prices if a ban is renewed. I expect those prices to double if permanent. I was wise and stocked up already. Look at the buy it now on Gun Broker (*yes always inflated). I can see a ban again passing with some Republican support. With the last shooting appealing to parents and upper income families it's their best chance unless some fool shoots up another school while dual wielding AK47s and it will be a shoe in. I am actually surprised terrorists have not done a school shooting here already (*yes I know of events overseas, but not on U.S. soil).
So under the assumption that we have a ban modeled after the 94' ban what happens to the aftermarket parts industry. Since the lower is the "firearm" portion of the rifle how will the following be affected.
1) Complete uppers?
2) Barrels, gas tubes, barrel nuts and etc. for repair/ugrade of
grandfathered uppers?
3) Bolts and BCG's?
4) Finally, misc. parts, springs, pins, etc for existing grandfathered
lowers that need repair/upgrade?
Do you think the ban if inacted would not only eliminate the sale of any new "assault firearms" but also work toward eliminating any grandfathered firearms due to attrition by making replacement parts unobtainable?
I can't find a bright side in any of this. Elections have consequences. It seems that we live in perilous times.
Doc Safari
12-19-12, 13:38
It does no good to speculate what the ban will look like because it hasn't been written yet.
Let's look at the bright side. If Biden is in charge we could end up with a ban on "salt rifles" or "salted weapons".
That is damn funny, will probably hear it again tonight on Jimmy Kimmel...:haha:
Magazine "parts replacement kits" keep us Kalifornians in the game when it comes to magazine repair. We can still buy entire magazines for virtually every pistol/rifle/shotgun on the market in the form of a repair kit; magazine is broken down into components and sold in a bag. It is intended to allow you to repair your damaged magazines (tube, springs, followers, etc).
We need to get behind the NRA and any lobby group that will fight for our rights. We cannot roll over and let them take one inch. Stay motivated, gents.
Magazine "parts replacement kits" keep us Kalifornians in the game when it comes to magazine repair. We can still buy entire magazines for virtually every pistol/rifle/shotgun on the market in the form of a repair kit; magazine is broken down into components and sold in a bag. It is intended to allow you to repair your damaged magazines (tube, springs, followers, etc).
We need to get behind the NRA and any lobby group that will fight for our rights. We cannot roll over and let them take one inch. Stay motivated, gents.
I agree, more of the "From my cold dead hands" talk, instead of giving in!
A new Gallup poll has been released (http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-shootings-americans-focus-police-mental-health.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All%20Gallup%20Headlines%20-%20Politics), and it contains some good news.
I agree, more of the "From my cold dead hands" talk, instead of giving in!
This.
I think its super important to write and call your congressmen. We need to let them know how we feel.
If my congressman votes for AWB I will be very active in ousting him.
morbidbattlecry
12-19-12, 16:07
My gut feeling is we will be damn lucky if the new ban is a mirror image of the Clinton ban but with no sunset
A couple days ago my buddy Hackathorn and I were talking on the phone and he felt that no new AWB would come out of this; today we compared notes and we are both 100% convinced there will in fact be a new AWB and we will extremely fortunate if it is a carbon copy of the last one
I really hope I am wrong but I seriously doubt it
Lets just pray we don't get another copycat killer feeding off the endless media coverage/explotation of this tragic event; if that were to happen then we are truly screwed
LAV
You're bumming me out Larry.
A new Gallup poll has been released (http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-shootings-americans-focus-police-mental-health.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All%20Gallup%20Headlines%20-%20Politics), and it contains some good news.
Facts mean nothing to the group of politicians who want to disarm law abiding tax payers.
morbidbattlecry
12-19-12, 16:47
A new Gallup poll has been released (http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-shootings-americans-focus-police-mental-health.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All%20Gallup%20Headlines%20-%20Politics), and it contains some good news.
I think this is actually pretty good news as well. It says thats the public is just as pro firearm as they where the day before the shootings. And that opinion is starting to come back down to normal. In the weeks to come all but the dumbest politicians are going to see polls like this as well. Remember these people do one thing really well. Try to keep themselves in power. What we are seeing is a knee jerk reaction to events fueled by emotion. Most normal people are starting to calm down now. The NRA is also working hard behind the scenes to help us out. I am no big fan of the NRA myself. But i just got a membership and donated a little extra money to them. Right now we all need to stick together and keep fighting the good fight.
hotbiggun42
12-19-12, 18:40
Bought my first AR in 1991. pre ban Oly Arms. Dont laugh. Mags were
Expensive. Ammo was cheap.
We mostly shot Mak 90s and cheap SKSs. It wasn't too bad really.
But times have changed.
I have Molon Labe on my dust cover :no:
I hope for good news, but an AWB is going to happen. There is no way this shooting is going to blow over and the government isn't going to ban them.
I hope for good news, but an AWB is going to happen. There is no way this shooting is going to blow over and the government isn't going to ban them.
Subscribing to a defeatist attitude certainly isn't going to help matters any... It comes down to whether or not they have the votes in congress. Honestly I don't think they do and certainly not enough to pass the legislation on its own merits which means it will either get pigeon-holed in with something else or the GOP will stab us in the back. Some things will likely change but out right banning of certain firearms I don't think will be one of them. High cap mags maybe as a concession measure but again only if we get stabbed in the back by the house.
thopkins22
12-19-12, 20:52
Long time no see folks...good to be back. Too bad it's circumstances like these that drew me from my loading bench and will keep me from stacking brass on the range for a while.
We need to be contacting these people, Republican and Democrat alike in opposition of the high capacity magazine bill and gun control in general.
There may be bills introduced by senators in the future, but this one is real and there now.
http://judiciary.house.gov/about/members.html
I have a good feeling that we can stop this one before it gets going.
I've got a couple of lowers that I have been planning to build for years, but procrastinated. Would a new AWB stop me from building them later?
NorthDakota
12-19-12, 21:04
In my mind, the company that gets f'd the most is Steyr. For cripes sake, they barely got the Aug over here before 1994 and just as the A3 is coming onboard, it will get nixed again (likely).
I graduated HS in 1994 and remember my first Glock in 1998. I lamented at full-capacity mag prices and started to get on the 1911 bandwagon. If only 10, then why not 8 big ones?
I learned from that and stocked up a bit. Still, mags, mags, mags. My G20 is running a bit light at 7 mags. I remember them going for $150 a pop.
Given Obama is now pushing for action by January, mfrs will have little time to react and open up production.
I'm seeing gouging on mags locally...they jumped 40% overnight, literally.
I helped a buddy grab 2 SP6920s today and we got lucky. They were quoted at $1199 but distributor jacked them up so retailer had to go up to $1299...but gave them to us for $1249...or so that is the story he used.
I too remember the ABCs and Olympic Arms.
A buddy that works at ATF theorizes that how broke the government is, making them all NFA would generate revenue and register them....
brushy bill
12-19-12, 21:31
In my mind, the company that gets f'd the most is Steyr. For cripes sake, they barely got the Aug over here before 1994 and just as the A3 is coming onboard, it will get nixed again (likely).
I graduated HS in 1994 and remember my first Glock in 1998. I lamented at full-capacity mag prices and started to get on the 1911 bandwagon. If only 10, then why not 8 big ones?
I learned from that and stocked up a bit. Still, mags, mags, mags. My G20 is running a bit light at 7 mags. I remember them going for $150 a pop.
Given Obama is now pushing for action by January, mfrs will have little time to react and open up production.
I'm seeing gouging on mags locally...they jumped 40% overnight, literally.
I helped a buddy grab 2 SP6920s today and we got lucky. They were quoted at $1199 but distributor jacked them up so retailer had to go up to $1299...but gave them to us for $1249...or so that is the story he used.
I too remember the ABCs and Olympic Arms.
A buddy that works at ATF theorizes that how broke the government is, making them all NFA would generate revenue and register them....
Well, save your tax stamp and turn them over now...if they NFA them they are step 2 in the confiscation process. Registration nearly always precedes confiscation.
FWIW, parts were available in abundance during the last ban. You just couldn't find a post '94 manufactured AR with collapsible stock, bayo lug, threaded muzzle, 30 round mags, etc.
I'm still optimistic about what is coming, but hopefully that aspect will stay the case if something bad does happen.
However, we need to stay upbeat, you can't walk in to a fight as if you've already lost.
Where has it been said that this might be voted on by Friday? I've looked for status updates on it, and it doesn't look like it's been reported by committee yet.
I fully agree. I also think another tragic event will happen sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, we need armed guards at schools right away.
The Magazine ban (https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr308) is the precursor and its getting voted on soon - maybe friday. More will follow in January. Senator Diane Fienstien stated that the AWB II will be prospective rather than retroactive. POPVOX enables you to weigh in on bills. I'm using it.https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr308
I've got a couple of lowers that I have been planning to build for years, but procrastinated. Would a new AWB stop me from building them later?
I'm in the same situation, and it seems no one will know until the '12 ban is in effect. DiFi said that she learned from the last ban, and that the new ban is going to close all the loopholes. It appears that all the uppers are already gone, so I'm planning on ordering a couple of threaded barrels, flash hiders, and collapsible stocks while they're still available. Why wait until prices goes up even more, or even worse, if after market flash hiders and collapsible stocks become illegal in the '12 ban? I'm expecting complete pre-ban uppers will be illegal with a new ban, but if you buy a threaded barrel and flash hider now (along with your pre-ban lower), you should be safe buying the upper receiver and forend later.
I think its super important to write and call your congressmen. We need to let them know how we feel.
If my congressman votes for AWB I will be very active in ousting him.
The old ban hurt the democrats and they lost seats. Many will remember that and tread lightly, I hope.
That said, the repub side of the aisle is not populated by strong statesmen and the speaker is a "let's make a deal" kind of leader.
The longer we get from the tragedy, hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
The NRA is gaining about 8,000 new members daily. If you know someone who is not a member, might be worth a little nudge......
I think its super important to write and call your congressmen. We need to let them know how we feel.
If my congressman votes for AWB I will be very active in ousting him.
I wrote to both of my senators after the '94 ban, and I received replies which basically said "I'm sorry you don't agree with my perspective". It's almost a waste of time voting or writing in a BLUE state.
So under the assumption that we have a ban modeled after the 94' ban what happens to the aftermarket parts industry. Since the lower is the "firearm" portion of the rifle how will the following be affected.
1) Complete uppers?
2) Barrels, gas tubes, barrel nuts and etc. for repair/ugrade of
grandfathered uppers?
3) Bolts and BCG's?
4) Finally, misc. parts, springs, pins, etc for existing grandfathered
lowers that need repair/upgrade?
Do you think the ban if inacted would not only eliminate the sale of any new "assault firearms" but also work toward eliminating any grandfathered firearms due to attrition by making replacement parts unobtainable?
Some variation of your question(s) has been asked at least three times in this thread without any real answers. Apparently nobody remembers how those items fared under the previous AWB and of course nobody knows what to expect with the next AWB until we see the language in the bill.
I would love to know the answer(s) too.
Pilotdude3407
12-19-12, 23:14
Some variation of your question(s) has been asked at least three times in this thread without any real answers. Apparently nobody remembers how those items fared under the previous AWB and of course nobody knows what to expect with the next AWB until we see the language in the bill.
I would love to know the answer(s) too.
This was going to be my question as well. I ASSUME, like machine guns, there is only one real "banned" portion, or registered portion. For normal weapons, it is the lower receiver. Everything else can be sent directly to your house. So if they "banned" assault weapons, then legally wouldn't that only be the stripped lower? Nothing else is regulated on the firearm. Uppers are no different than a box of wrapping paper being sent to your house...so how can they say you can't posses it? I was going to buy as many lowers as I could afford before this happens (if it does) but if the uppers are banned too, then what's the point?
SilverTongueDevil
12-19-12, 23:57
IMO during the ban the guys with the mags set the price...
viper3colt
12-20-12, 00:31
Contact your senators and Congressman, let them know how you feel about it. Today, because the other side is moving fast.
markm
Yea just like Obamamoa said he could do nothing to help the illegals -by law! So what did he do - gave them amnesty by fiat!:rolleyes: Your a trusting fool aren't you! The biggest change in Finstiens new AWB - is no face to face sales- all have to go through FFL's, Can't sell what you have(AR's) even to FFL's, can't gift them, can't hand them down after your gone. It wiil efectively put all AR manufactures out of buisness. Only ones left will be those that supply Mil/Leo contracts. No sales to civies!
markm
Yea just like Obamamoa said he could do nothing to help the illegals -by law! So what did he do - gave them amnesty by fiat!:rolleyes: Your a trusting fool aren't you! The biggest change in Finstiens new AWB - is no face to face sales- all have to go through FFL's, Can't sell what you have(AR's) even to FFL's, can't gift them, can't hand them down after your gone. It wiil efectively put all AR manufactures out of buisness. Only ones left will be those that supply Mil/Leo contracts. No sales to civies!
Yep.. and the prices of LEO's buying rifles/parts/mags will be much higher since there will be less options...
IMO during the ban the guys with the mags set the price...
Luckily I went crazy on the Brownell's 10 x PMAG 30 for $99.95 shipped or whatever deal they had a week ago. I decided to look for more mags last night and it seems like everyone is sold out. I certainly hope the ban isn't reinstated. I need like at least 100 more mags.. :)
There are still major roadblocks on the road to a new assault weapons ban. Some high-profile politicians have defected to the other side, but that may not be enough.
As Eugene Volokh pointed out in Why It's Hard to Prevent Mass Shootings (http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/18/why-its-hard-to-prevent-mass-shootings/), 50% of the country believes that stricter gun control laws would not have prevented the Newtown massacre. Only 26% were sure that they would.
There is also a Republican majority in the House, along with many Democrats who will be uncomfortable voting for a new assault weapons ban. The further we get away from the tragedy, the more logic will come into the debate.
Write to your legislators. If we fight this, we might lose. If we don't fight it, we will surely lose.
Democrats always fall in line. Even "conservative" democrats will alway vote down the party line to kill babies and take away guns. Repubicans are the ones who are weak and fall for this B/S. That is why the republican are barely hanging onto one branch of government despite detrimental policies and horrible economic policies.
The way I look at it - if they didn't ban commercial jetliners after 9/11, then they shouldn't ban "assault weapons" after this incident. I'm in agreeance with the "Put an armed police officer in every school" train of thought... Or start a new Federal branch of "School Marshalls"... it would create new jobs instead of further trashing American manufacturing.
Assault weapon ban I sunsetted in 2004, gun owners had at 12 years to plan not to get caught with their pants down like the last time. It's no secret and shouldn't come as a surprise that a second and stricter weapon/accessory ban will come, it's just a matter of time and opportunity for the left. Gun owners should have stocked up on full capacity magazines for handguns as well as long guns. They should have bought the handguns, black rifle, commie rifle, etc. of their choice during all of these time. It's a little late now to panic.
This time I bet the ban will not sunset like the first one.
They got us once, shame on them. If we haven't learned from the that lesson, shame on us.
Doc. Holiday
12-20-12, 10:01
This time I bet the ban will not sunset like the first one.
I have a bad feeling that you're right on this one. :(
The way I look at it - if they didn't ban commercial jetliners after 9/11, then they shouldn't ban "assault weapons" after this incident. I'm in agreeance with the "Put an armed police officer in every school" train of thought... Or start a new Federal branch of "School Marshalls"... it would create new jobs instead of further trashing American manufacturing.
They always wanted to ban guns. They never wanted to ban commercial airlines. Putting more armed security in schools would just be one more expenisive, worthless burden on society.
Most rent-a cops or LEO at elementary schools look like they either need a scooter to get around or need to loose half their body weight.
Most rent-a cops or LEO at elementary schools look like they either need a scooter to get around or need to loose half their body weight.
Hey, there are plenty of competent retired and near-retired LEOs to fill the jobs and I have nothing against the scooter, as long as it's a fast one and the operator's still combat-capable. :)
The last ban made high cap mags seemingly worth their weight in gold. Here in ny we have a ban also and so my ar can't have a collapsible stock bayonet lug or flash suppressor. No biggie- I do miss the stocks when teaching short people ( ladies and kids) how to shoot. Back when ny elects spitzer governor I bought a Remington 7615 pump just in case. Probably not a bad idea now either. I bet mossberg will sell a ton of the new bolt gun that takes ar mags.
All the companies that make mags will run 24/7 to get as many out the door before any ban just like last time.
all the companies that make mags will run 24/7 to get as many out the door before any ban just like last time.
and we will get a Bunch that will pass QC with problems
I never remember have issues with magazines, but my AR had a fixed stock, no bayo lug, and no threaded barrel.
I still shudder when I think about prices I paid for pre-ban hi-cap magazines back then. I think the worst example was nearly $100 for a mag for my Sig (including shipping). The thing is, I had so many 10 shot mags for my pistols I never really bought many full capacity models after the ban was lifted. Looks like I need to fix that sooner rather than later. Looks like history is going to repeat itself again.
I feel you; prices for Glock mags were $100 plus. So retarded.
Assault weapon ban I sunsetted in 2004, gun owners had at 12 years to plan not to get caught with their pants down like the last time. It's no secret and shouldn't come as a surprise that a second and stricter weapon/accessory ban will come, it's just a matter of time and opportunity for the left. Gun owners should have stocked up on full capacity magazines for handguns as well as long guns. They should have bought the handguns, black rifle, commie rifle, etc. of their choice during all of these time. It's a little late now to panic.
This time I bet the ban will not sunset like the first one.
They got us once, shame on them. If we haven't learned from the that lesson, shame on us.
Good point! The problem is most Americans get lulled into a sense of normalcy; everything is fine and everything will be fine. The last two Presidential elections demonstrate this. Unlike other nations, the Europeans included, Americans have not had to face any tyrants with totalitarian governments. No one could imagine that we could actually put someone in office who doesn't have the best interest of the Nation at heart. It just can't happen here....everything will be fine.
Well it's not "fine" and we will probably have some interesting times over the next decade or so.
The last ban made high cap mags seemingly worth their weight in gold. Here in ny we have a ban also and so my ar can't have a collapsible stock bayonet lug or flash suppressor. No biggie- I do miss the stocks when teaching short people ( ladies and kids) how to shoot. Back when ny elects spitzer governor I bought a Remington 7615 pump just in case. Probably not a bad idea now either. I bet mossberg will sell a ton of the new bolt gun that takes ar mags.
All the companies that make mags will run 24/7 to get as many out the door before any ban just like last time.
Anyone thought about this with ar15's/m4's and that the waves of rifles that hit stores over the next month or until legislation is passed might be of lesser quality due to the companies just pounding these out till they cant make anymore " if it comes down to that".
kind of like the quality/finish of war dated rifles to non war dated rifles.
Ah...the good ol' days. Hi-cap mags were smuggled off bases in droves, showing up at surplus dealers. The best ones were bought up and re-finished. Permaslik G sprayed on, new springs and followers installed. It was a regular black market operation nationwide. I was at Fort Hood for a few days once while traveling and went to some of the surplus joints off base. They had thousands of mags still in original contractor wrap and arsenal cases. Certainly some soldiers were supplementing their pay with their car trunks loaded with goodies.
I'm sure we'll see those days again with a healthy black market returning.
OH58D
When I ETS'd out of the Army in the late 80s, I turned in my inspection TA50 not the one I used for the field. I got home cleaned out my Abag and in my mag pouches was 6 30 rd. magazines, which I still have and an additional 6 I bought back in 1987, I would never part with these.
Dave
Even if the ban does go through which as time passes I feel becomes increasingly less likely, there is nothing from stopping companies from manufacturing mag components and selling them as rebuild kits. Its not a mag its a chunk of plastic or metal, whichever.
Ban supporters fail at the simplest logic thinking that if they ban something it will magically disappear from existence.
So, when to get out of the AR world? I've got a BCM, Aimpoint PRO, 12 Pmags, other accessories, and around 1,000 rounds. I jumped in not too long ago but have been limited financially to some degree to stockpile as I wished. I'm trying to figure which way to go since I've got limited resources and my "stash" is unlikely to be sustainable over the long haul. I planned on a couple of classes next year and to pick up mags and ammo on as regular a schedule as possible, but all of that seems in serious jeopardy.
I've got Glock 19s and an HK P2000SK, mags for each, and a pile of 9 mm...old Remington 870 in 16 ga, Ruger Single Six...sell the AR and shore up the other stuff or drive on and see what happens?
So, when to get out of the AR world? I've got a BCM, Aimpoint PRO, 12 Pmags, other accessories, and around 1,000 rounds. I jumped in not too long ago but have been limited financially to some degree to stockpile as I wished. I'm trying to figure which way to go since I've got limited resources and my "stash" is unlikely to be sustainable over the long haul. I planned on a couple of classes next year and to pick up mags and ammo on as regular a schedule as possible, but all of that seems in serious jeopardy.
I've got Glock 19s and an HK P2000SK, mags for each, and a pile of 9 mm...old Remington 870 in 16 ga, Ruger Single Six...sell the AR and shore up the other stuff or drive on and see what happens?
Come on don't talk like that. You gotta keep your chin up. I'm waiting for NRA has to say tomorrow. I'm still not selling out tho even if the NRA say we give up! Lol. Never
Personally, I wouldn't sell anything. I'm keeping what I have.
Democrats always fall in line. Even "conservative" democrats will alway vote down the party line to kill babies and take away guns. Repubicans are the ones who are weak and fall for this B/S. That is why the republican are barely hanging onto one branch of government despite detrimental policies and horrible economic policies.
This is simply untrue. The parties tend to vote with equal unity - http://media.cq.com/media/2011/votestudy_2011/graphics/
In many ways the Democrats are more likely to be rebellious toward Congressional and White House leadership, such as with Obamacare. If Democrats were in lockstep there, the bill would have passed in days, given their easy majorities in both bodies. But some, particularly Dem Senators, bucked the leadership and Obama and made for a much tougher fight.
morbidbattlecry
12-20-12, 20:31
So, when to get out of the AR world? I've got a BCM, Aimpoint PRO, 12 Pmags, other accessories, and around 1,000 rounds. I jumped in not too long ago but have been limited financially to some degree to stockpile as I wished. I'm trying to figure which way to go since I've got limited resources and my "stash" is unlikely to be sustainable over the long haul. I planned on a couple of classes next year and to pick up mags and ammo on as regular a schedule as possible, but all of that seems in serious jeopardy.
I've got Glock 19s and an HK P2000SK, mags for each, and a pile of 9 mm...old Remington 870 in 16 ga, Ruger Single Six...sell the AR and shore up the other stuff or drive on and see what happens?
Get Magazines. Even DF has stated this will be a proactive ban. Maybe get another lower. There will be ammo availible. You will still be able to customize your pre ban lower.
Get Magazines. Even DF has stated this will be a proactive ban. Maybe get another lower. There will be ammo availible. You will still be able to customize your pre ban lower.
Depends on the exact language of the bill and what actually winds up in the final legislation providing it gets passed at all. If its all encompassing and includes outlawing the manufacture of lowers for example then yes, bad days indeed. But if its simply a features ban again not much will change in that context.
Brushy Bill -
I helped a buddy grab 2 SP6920s today and we got lucky. They were quoted at $1199 but distributor jacked them up so retailer had to go up to $1299...but gave them to us for $1249...or so that is the story he used.
Where'd you find them - I'm searching all over.
If a new AWB passes do you think that they will require bullet buttons? Also, do you think that they will go after entire firearms or just accessories and magazine limits?
If a new AWB passes do you think that they will require bullet buttons? Also, do you think that they will go after entire firearms or just accessories and magazine limits?
I don't think anyone could know the answer to this.
I don't think anyone could know the answer to this.
I realize that no one knows but that doesn't mean that no one has any ideas
Levi
Guys. Don't give up a bloody inch. You keep talking about the last bill. That's not their agenda. Look at us up here in Canada. Look at UK and Australia.
That's what they are after. Go and check the firearms legislation of other countries so you know what's coming.
Just because your last ban was pretty weak, it doesn't mean they'll stop at that this time.
They'll make your lives miserable if you give up. Once they got the foot in the door, they'll keep adding firearms and "evil features" to the list.
Up here they made over 60% of handguns ilegal. Most semiautomatics based on millitary models went prohibited. Even if you could keep them, you are not allowed to shoot them anymore. Just because you got the firearm before the ban doesn't mean you will get more money for it later. They may not let you sell it at all.
Nine out of ten companies involved with firearms went under, or were harased to the point they said f@k it.
Get organized, be visible and make your voice heared, or you end up like us, or worse!
Good luck!
I realize that no one knows but that doesn't mean that no one has any ideas........
Having lived in CA through the last "ban", if I had to guess, it would have to be at least equal to what CA has now, or worse.
Absolutely correct ! this time it will be the banning entire classes of firearms by brand. Finestien already has the bill wrote up. My hope is Obama is feeling so emboldened by the 24 / 7 anti gun support of the media that he over steps a bit causing a back lash. I don't think this is going to be a slow step by step approach. He's using the raw emotion of this tragedy to further his agenda and it won't last forever. Another mistake is that every media source is waiting for the NRA to speak out. The NRA has received more press that ever, this will give them a national audience. The NRA is getting huge support over 8000 new member each day and I can only imagine the contributions. I hope this will embolden them enough not to sway at all.
Absolutely correct ! this time it will be the banning entire classes of firearms by brand. Finestien already has the bill wrote up. My hope is Obama is feeling so emboldened by the 24 / 7 anti gun support of the media that he over steps a bit causing a back lash. I don't think this is going to be a slow step by step approach. He's using the raw emotion of this tragedy to further his agenda and it won't last forever. Another mistake is that every media source is waiting for the NRA to speak out. The NRA has received more press that ever, this will give them a national audience. The NRA is getting huge support over 8000 new member each day and I can only imagine the contributions. I hope this will embolden them enough not to sway at all.
Providing they don't blow it. If they(we) come out strong and swinging I think we'll be ok. What kills me though us POTUS's commission tasked with quantifying the glorification of guns when the real truth lies in the vilification of them. Cowards ....
Guys. Don't give up a bloody inch. You keep talking about the last bill. That's not their agenda. Look at us up here in Canada. Look at UK and Australia.
That's what they are after. Go and check the firearms legislation of other countries so you know what's coming.
Just because your last ban was pretty weak, it doesn't mean they'll stop at that this time.
They'll make your lives miserable if you give up. Once they got the foot in the door, they'll keep adding firearms and "evil features" to the list.
Up here they made over 60% of handguns ilegal. Most semiautomatics based on millitary models went prohibited. Even if you could keep them, you are not allowed to shoot them anymore. Just because you got the firearm before the ban doesn't mean you will get more money for it later. They may not let you sell it at all.
Nine out of ten companies involved with firearms went under, or were harased to the point they said f@k it.
Get organized, be visible and make your voice heared, or you end up like us, or worse!
Good luck!
The US government isn't going to pull some gestapo move and take away everyone's guns and magazines if they currently own them. I do not know Canadian gun laws, and I'm really not that interested in them. Comparing America to UK and AUS is kind of foolish since those countries were a product of ancient overpowered kingdoms that disarmed their people, that's why America had a revolution and why we have a 2nd Amendment.
The US government isn't going to pull some gestapo move and take away everyone's guns and magazines if they currently own them. I do not know Canadian gun laws, and I'm really not that interested in them. Comparing America to UK and AUS is kind of foolish since those countries were a product of ancient overpowered kingdoms that disarmed their people, that's why America had a revolution and why we have a 2nd Amendment.
Not this time, maybe next time or the time after that maybe five, twenty or more years down the road. Our rights are continually under assault and over time we incrementally continue to lose more and more of the. Why? Denial, and the irrational rationale that something can't happen here simply because this is America, but in all actuality such a belief couldn't be farther from the truth.
Not this time, maybe next time or the time after that maybe five, twenty or more years down the road. Our rights are continually under assault and over time we incrementally continue to lose more and more of the. Why? Denial, and the irrational rationale that something can't happen here simply because this is America, but in all actuality such a belief couldn't be farther from the truth.
History repeats itself, government gets to large, revolution follows.
Guys. Don't give up a bloody inch. You keep talking about the last bill. That's not their agenda. Look at us up here in Canada. Look at UK and Australia.
That's what they are after. Go and check the firearms legislation of other countries so you know what's coming.
Just because your last ban was pretty weak, it doesn't mean they'll stop at that this time.
They'll make your lives miserable if you give up. Once they got the foot in the door, they'll keep adding firearms and "evil features" to the list.
Up here they made over 60% of handguns ilegal. Most semiautomatics based on millitary models went prohibited. Even if you could keep them, you are not allowed to shoot them anymore. Just because you got the firearm before the ban doesn't mean you will get more money for it later. They may not let you sell it at all.
Nine out of ten companies involved with firearms went under, or were harased to the point they said f@k it.
Get organized, be visible and make your voice heared, or you end up like us, or worse!
Good luck!
Agree
There is another thread in GD that a couple sources have said they might push to reclassify the AR and make it an NFA item meaning taxes and registrations. I dont know about yall but in theory if that passed I will not be registering anything, they can suck it.
On a slight tangent -- what officially had to happen to all the "high capacity magazines" in California after their 1989 AWB? Were people forced to get rid of them [or hide them], register them, etc?
I don't know about Calif, but in most states, mine included, ownership of hi cap mags was not illegal. As a matter of fact, hi cap magazines manufactured prior to the ban could still be sold to the public by manufactures.
As an example, I owned several Para Ordnance pistols back then whose magazines held more than 10 rounds. Prior to the ban taking affect, Para Ordnance made hundreds of thousands of hi cap mags. They delivered their semi autos with one compliant 10 round magazine and also a certificate that entitled the buyer to order 2 hi cap mags within a certain time after purchase of the gun. Those mags were shipped directly from Para Ordnance to the gun buyer. I remember people selling those certificates for $100 and more during that time. A person could buy a gun and sell two hi cap mags to offset a bunch of the cost of the gun. What a mess that was.
what is strange is Nothing was said on the News here in the last 2 days .Like some higher up call in and said "Stop talking about guns and a possible ban " it is creepy to say the least
The US government isn't going to pull some gestapo move and take away everyone's guns and magazines if they currently own them. I do not know Canadian gun laws, and I'm really not that interested in them. Comparing America to UK and AUS is kind of foolish since those countries were a product of ancient overpowered kingdoms that disarmed their people, that's why America had a revolution and why we have a 2nd Amendment.
Ok then. Sit around pounding your chest about great things your forefathers achieved 200 years ago, do nothing and watch your rights eroded a little bit at the time. Watch all those things taken away from you.
They won't come for everything in the same time. It was the same here. A restriction here, one there, first get firearms not many people owned, so the other gun owners didn't suport them.
If you think you are safe, good luck then.
I honesty believe that we will not suffer another ban. I'm of the opinion that the media (who are tickled pink by this tragedy..disgusting) is selling hard, but not many are buying.
I can only speak for my tiny microcosm of the S.Florida school system (very liberal), but nearly everyone I have spoken with does not support a ban. Most believe as I do, this is an issue of parenting and mental health awareness/reform.
hotbiggun42
12-21-12, 08:58
Ok then. Sit around pounding your chest about great things your forefathers achieved 200 years ago, do nothing and watch your rights eroded a little bit at the time. Watch all those things taken away from you.
They won't come for everything in the same time. It was the same here. A restriction here, one there, first get firearms not many people owned, so the other gun owners didn't suport them.
If you think you are safe, good luck then.
I think you are correct. Hopefully some group like tha NRA will start organizing demonstrations around the country. We need to be seen and heard.
Does anyone Know what time the NRA is having the press release ??
Does anyone Know what time the NRA is having the press release ??
10:45 ET.
Obama alread had his speech:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/obama-urges-americans-keep-pressure-tighter-gun-control-110755782.html
They are going for it.
nineteenkilo
12-21-12, 09:07
Does anyone Know what time the NRA is having the press release ??
It'll be 945 this morning for us:
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/listen-live-nra-press-conference-today-1045-am-et/news/2012/12/21/56973
carftopher
12-21-12, 09:07
Does anyone Know what time the NRA is having the press release ??
Believe it's at 10:45 EST
Doc. Holiday
12-21-12, 09:09
I'm praying for the best!!!
hotbiggun42
12-21-12, 09:14
what is strange is Nothing was said on the News here in the last 2 days .Like some higher up call in and said "Stop talking about guns and a possible ban " it is creepy to say the least
Maybe they realized their news coverage was causing a massive firearms panic buy.
Maybe they realized their news coverage was causing a massive firearms panic buy.
the last story i saw was at the LGS and the walls and counters were Bare People standing in line waiting up to 2 hours for check out and back ground check .
I just pulled My M4 out and gave it a hug :sarcastic: i am glad i am not caught up in the last minute sells
Thank you all for the Time I am waiting to hear where they Stand
7.62WildBill
12-21-12, 09:44
Talked to a buddy in the very small town of Rose Hill, NC (population 1,655). His LGS had sold over 400 guns since Friday. THEY SOLD THEIR LAST BUSHMASTER YESTERDAY FOR $2000!!! Head hurting...rooming spinning...:(
The wierdness is pretty much in full effect at this point.
I just got the last followers in stock at my preferred dealer, forget mags.
The Bulldawg
12-21-12, 09:59
Here In Texas there is no shortage of firearms stores especially in Houston . Nothing can be found for any price. Ammo,AR'S, magazines,lowers,uppers and even iron sights and optics. I am praying for the manufacturers that have invested so much time in their business. I have no respect for the shops selling for more than msrp at all its a freakin disgrace.
Personally, I wouldn't sell anything. I'm keeping what I have.
I am with you. I only recently decided to take the AR plunge. The right to own and keep this weapon is more important to me at this time.
I was going to focus on buying a few flash hiders, mags, and threaded barrels, but a state rep. in CT is now talking about a 50% tax on ammo, no online ammo sales, requiring an "ammo permit" to purchase ammo, a requirement to re-register your guns every 2 years, a retroactive ban on mags over 10 rounds, and an online "gun owner registry" similar to a sex offender registry so anyone can look you up, see your picture, and see what you own. (That would be great for criminals, as they would know what house to target to steal guns). I don't know how they can call this "common sense legislation". The problem in CT is a democratic governor + democratic legislature + emotions are running high with SH in our state. CT already has an assault weapons ban similar to '94, so I don't see how a federal ban would have prevented SH. It's confusing trying to decide how to spend limited funds with all the new gun control proposals flying around.
I was going to focus on buying a few flash hiders, mags, and threaded barrels, but a state rep. in CT is now talking about a 50% tax on ammo, no online ammo sales, requiring an "ammo permit" to purchase ammo, a requirement to re-register your guns every 2 years, a retroactive ban on mags over 10 rounds, and an online "gun owner registry" similar to a sex offender registry so anyone can look you up, see your picture, and see what you own. (That would be great for criminals, as they would know what house to target to steal guns). I don't know how they can call this "common sense legislation". The problem in CT is a democratic governor + democratic legislature + emotions are running high with SH in our state. CT already has an assault weapons ban similar to '94, so I don't see how a federal ban would have prevented SH. It's confusing trying to decide how to spend limited funds with all the new gun control proposals flying around.
Maybe it's time to put in for that transfer.
I was going to focus on buying a few flash hiders, mags, and threaded barrels, but a state rep. in CT is now talking about a 50% tax on ammo, no online ammo sales, requiring an "ammo permit" to purchase ammo, a requirement to re-register your guns every 2 years, a retroactive ban on mags over 10 rounds, and an online "gun owner registry" similar to a sex offender registry so anyone can look you up, see your picture, and see what you own. (That would be great for criminals, as they would know what house to target to steal guns). I don't know how they can call this "common sense legislation". The problem in CT is a democratic governor + democratic legislature + emotions are running high with SH in our state. CT already has an assault weapons ban similar to '94, so I don't see how a federal ban would have prevented SH. It's confusing trying to decide how to spend limited funds with all the new gun control proposals flying around.
**** THAT!!
gun owners are not sex offenders!!!
I refuse to have my privacy compromised when I have not committed a crime!! Im a vet but ill leave this country if something like that passes. That goes against what this country is based on.
Maybe it's time to put in for that transfer.
If they're going to pass new laws, it should be left up to the states. At least that way you could move to another state that respects your rights, and let the liberal states pass feel-good gun control while they suffocate in medicaid debt. I feel like we're in a boat about to go over the falls: the libs are in a frenzy over gun control meanwhile we're about to go off the fiscal cliff.
If they're going to pass new laws, it should be left up to the states. At least that way you could move to another state that respects your rights, and let the liberal states pass feel-good gun control while they suffocate in medicaid debt. I feel like we're in a boat about to go over the falls: the libs are in a frenzy over gun control meanwhile we're about to go off the fiscal cliff.
Move to a state that will say. F-U to the fed. like Arizona. I totally understand roots and family, but the buck stops somewhere. Also I'm just as concerned about the financial situation too, what happens when folks stop getting their well fair? I've got an idea and I don't like it.
Good luck, brother.
I plan on keeping what I have and hope that nothing will pass and no new bans will come down. I'm glad I have what I do have now, but I will try and buy more mags if I have an opportunity at a decent price. I've seen what some people are paying for Pmags on Ebay and that is crazy.
Here In Texas there is no shortage of firearms stores especially in Houston . Nothing can be found for any price. Ammo,AR'S, magazines,lowers,uppers and even iron sights and optics. I am praying for the manufacturers that have invested so much time in their business. I have no respect for the shops selling for more than msrp at all its a freakin disgrace.
yup ther is a shop or two in pretty much every 1 square mile in my daily commute. Friend and his bro waited till two days ago to say hey i think i want an ar15, I was pretty much like good luck. Should have bought one back when i said so when DDM4's could be had between 1100-1200 on the reg and colt 6920's just below 1k. 600$ dpms's are going for 1500 on Texasguntrader right now. Have even seen a NIB Sig 556 for 4500 and it says sale pending.
How did the last assault rifle ban in the 90's affect AR owners?
How did it affect those that had already owned these rifles?
The AWB was a nuisance to law-abiding gun owners, but it went away. The anti-gun side saw it as a decisive victory, but it was a minor tactical win with a massive strategic downside that has cost them dearly since then.
1. The AWB failed to stop the manufacture and sale of military-style semi-automatic weapons in the US. Post-ban rifles were cosmetically different, but their essential nature remained unchanged.
2. The AWB infuriated a BUNCH of people who hadn't cared about black rifles before. Many of these people joined the NRA, and many became single-issue voters.
3. The NRA became a much more powerful and focused political entity. It went after anti-gun state and US senators and representatives, judges, mayors, and governors. Anti-gun candidates found themselves facing well-funded pro-gun candidates, and many anti's were voted out of office. One effect of this is that we now have concealed-carry laws in 49 out of 50 states, with the final holdout (Illinois) hustling under SCOTUS order to draft a workable law within the next six months.
4. The AWB fueled the general disgust with Clinton and the Democrats, which helped elect George W. Bush. That led to the nomination of Samuel Alito to the SCOTUS, who was a key vote on DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
5. General terror of the NRA on the part of politicians led to the AWB being allowed to sunset in 2004.
6. Before the AWB, a 15- to 17-round mag was a design standard for semi-auto handguns, which resulted in big, bulky pistols that were hard to conceal. The 10-round limit created an incentive for gunmakers to develop smaller, more concealable handguns.
The next ban will not be as flawed, and simply must be defeated.
Okie John
I'm glad I bought 3 pre 94 ban lowers in the last few years along with a Colt I bought before the 94 ban. I kept one as an A2, one with a Noveske Afghan, and one with a LMT MRP. The last was going to be a 8" 300 AAC or a 20" SAM-R, which I'll have to build, since uppers are now scarce.
I remember the ban. I purchased a neutered Colt Match Target Hbar and purchased a new pre-ban Colt upper from a gun show. When I went to the range I would swap the neutered upper for the pre-ban and shoot to my heart's delight. **** 'em.
The AWB was a nuisance to law-abiding gun owners, but it went away. The anti-gun side saw it as a decisive victory, but it was a minor tactical win with a massive strategic downside that has cost them dearly since then.
1. The AWB failed to stop the manufacture and sale of military-style semi-automatic weapons in the US. Post-ban rifles were cosmetically different, but their essential nature remained unchanged.
2. The AWB infuriated a BUNCH of people who hadn't cared about black rifles before. Many of these people joined the NRA, and many became single-issue voters. 3. The NRA became a much more powerful and focused political entity. It went after anti-gun state and US senators and representatives, judges, mayors, and governors. Anti-gun candidates found themselves facing well-funded pro-gun candidates, and many anti's were voted out of office. One effect of this is that we now have concealed-carry laws in 49 out of 50 states, with the final holdout (Illinois) hustling under SCOTUS order to draft a workable law within the next six months.
4. The AWB fueled the general disgust with Clinton and the Democrats, which helped elect George W. Bush. That led to the nomination of Samuel Alito to the SCOTUS, who was a key vote on DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
5. General terror of the NRA on the part of politicians led to the AWB being allowed to sunset in 2004.
6. Before the AWB, a 15- to 17-round mag was a design standard for semi-auto handguns, which resulted in big, bulky pistols that were hard to conceal. The 10-round limit created an incentive for gunmakers to develop smaller, more concealable handguns.
The next ban will not be as flawed, and simply must be defeated.
Okie John
I didn't buy an AR until after the Ban had sunsetted.
BUT, I did purchase my first handgun during the ban. I looked around and found a gun in my budget and chose the CZ-75b based on a few factors, like ergo's and the weight wasn't an issue because it was to be a "nightstand gun" not a carry peice.
I went with the CZ in .40 because the castrated 10 round mags that came with the gun would only be missing 2 rounds instead of 5.
But the real affect it had on me was I will now NEVER vote for anybody that isn't 100% pro gun. And I got into shooting semi-auto rifle's just bacause the Anti's didn't want me to have them....
*edit*
I almost forgot. A guy I work with just bought two AR-15's even though has stated many times that he "doesn't like guns". When I asked him why he just bought two rifle's if he doesn't like guns, he said:
"Sure, I don't like guns but when my son grows up he might." (His boy is 3 years old). I was awstruck. A father just spent 2 grand on items he doesn't even plan to use just in case his son might take up shooting.
Ok then. Sit around pounding your chest about great things your forefathers achieved 200 years ago, do nothing and watch your rights eroded a little bit at the time. Watch all those things taken away from you.
They won't come for everything in the same time. It was the same here. A restriction here, one there, first get firearms not many people owned, so the other gun owners didn't suport them.
If you think you are safe, good luck then.
Jaws is right.
Ronin, think about how small and out of mainstream public opinion is out there for protecting 2A. There are enough vocal people in the U.S. who are advocating enlightened, modernized European laws because they have been allowed to deny what danger exists in the world, by living in a world of comfort.
I'm kind of worried about a potential ban. I have one RRA AR and one SA M1A, but would it be wise to get more AR-15s?
The other issue is finding them. Even here in MD, the stores are getting cleaned out completely.
4. The AWB fueled the general disgust with Clinton and the Democrats, which helped elect George W. Bush. That led to the nomination of Samuel Alito to the SCOTUS, who was a key vote on DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
But Clinton still beat Dole in 96.
This is what happens if you don't act:
Canada:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrqT9SIkQw
Uk and Australia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I
The people that are after your guns now, are part of the same international socialist ideology that did it in other countries. This "progressive movement" is global in scope and they have the same goal. It may take longer in US, IF YOU LET THEM, but once they get the foot in the door, it's a lot harder to stop them. It's much harder to put up a fight while you are in retreat, then standing your ground from the start.
elephantrider
12-21-12, 16:23
But Clinton still beat Dole in 96.
Dole was a weak candidate in the sense that many voters considered him too old to serve, compared to the younger Clinton. Mcain suffered from this as well against Obama.
The 1994 mid-term election is still known as the "Conservative Revolution" for a reason. The Dems got their asses handed to them on a silver platter. Clinton took note and became much more moderate afterwards (gave up the gov't healthcare push).
Let's not give up this fight before it's over. There are plenty of ways to fight against this as things continue to develope. Tell your family, tell your friends. Get everyone you possibly can on board to fight this as much as possible.
Recargador
12-21-12, 16:36
I'm new to the site but have been fighting this issue since the late 1980's in California.
Please note that Senator Shummer of NY was a Congressman back in the early 1990's. He had the idea of an "Arsenal Tax" which meant that you had to pay a fee for the "aresnal license" at the cost of $300. You were only allowed to have no more than 1000 rounds or primers at your arsenal. Yup, that's right, only 1000 rds period. You waived your 4th Amendment right to search and seizure (part of the license) so the ATF could come to your residence anytime it wanted to verify your arsenal. Anything over 1000 primers/rounds and it would involve a fine/confisication.
After the 1994 Ban, the ATF came out with it's usual unilateral decision stating that any striped lower purchased prior to the ban could not be built into a "preban". It could only be built into a "post ban".
There were other "ideas" out there but they too didn't make it off the House/Senate floor.
It will be interesting to see what DiFi pushes...........
bodhisattva
12-21-12, 18:14
A huge complication in this will be the issue of Obama's appointments to the Supreme Court. If Scalia can make it another four years then I think that any new ban will be shot down as soon it appears in front of the court.
superswamper
12-21-12, 18:53
No ban yet, but I wonder if thet will grandfather stuff again...
bodhisattva
12-21-12, 18:55
No ban yet, but I wonder if thet will grandfather stuff again...
It would be a radical reverse on existing precedent for it to be any other way. There would be no tenable way for the people pushing a new ban to pass it with a confiscatory element attached nor would there be any sort of workable scheme to enforce it.
After the 1994 Ban, the ATF came out with it's usual unilateral decision stating that any striped lower purchased prior to the ban could not be built into a "preban". It could only be built into a "post ban".
That's what I'm worried about. It's exactly why I'm buying parts to build an upper now, rather that waiting for any new ban.
I doubt they will go for a confiscatory element to begin with. Like other countries have done, it'll probably start with more restrictions, followed by registration requirements, then confiscation will begin.
This thread has brought back a lot of (bad) memories, but there are two things I remember distinctly:
* 10-round mags were often cut-down 20-rounders with big ugly rivets holding the two halves together. That's what came with a post-ban Bushmaster I bought. The other thing about those and other 10-round mags is that ATF wanted manufacturers to be sure that an 11th round couldn't be squeezed in, so the result was that even loading a full ten rounds was a chore. Some of the 9mm guys of course got smart and bought equivalent .40 caliber mags for their 9mm pistols, which more often than not worked just fine and held a couple more rounds.
* A few years into the ban the US military adopted the Colt M4 Carbine, but naturally there was no legal way for any AR manufacturer to offer a commercial equivalent. The result was a flurry of folks buying pre-ban rifles like 20" HBARs, and then getting M4 uppers and folding stocks from the vendors and assembling them into an M4gery. I did just that using an old PWA pre-ban lower and an M4 upper from Bushmaster. The two receivers didn't match for finish, but I didn't care.
With Crazy Uncle Joe leading the charge who knows what is going to happen. I firmly believe it should be left up to each state. The last ban was not an effective means of controlling gun violence.
It would be a radical reverse on existing precedent for it to be any other way. There would be no tenable way for the people pushing a new ban to pass it with a confiscatory element attached nor would there be any sort of workable scheme to enforce it.
Here's a good way to enforce it. If you are caught with an "assault weapon" you get a year or more in jail. A felony. I keep an Ar in my vehicle at all times. So, either I don't carry it and am defenseless, or I am a criminal. They can't get them all at once, but just a few going to jail will make them disappear quickly.
johnnywitt
12-21-12, 20:16
It doesn't matter what the "last one" did, it matters what the "next one" will do.
The same career politicians that wrote the last one are writing this one and I guarantee you they learned from their "mistakes" on the last one.
bodhisattva
12-21-12, 20:24
It doesn't matter what the "last one" did, it matters what the "next one" will do.
The same career politicians that wrote the last one are writing this one and I guarantee you they learned from their "mistakes" on the last one.
I agree with this in spirit but it's important to note that the rule of law in this country is predicated on the idea of precedent. That the first AWB happened is dangerous enough but that it could serve as the skeleton for something even harsher and more restrictive is what we should be reading into it. Imagine everything in the first AWB but taken to the extreme. However, on the reverse, the Heller decision can be looked to as a sign of hope for resistance in the highest legal authority in this country.
I worry that registration will be next and then confiscation in the future. Always with the clause that if you get caught with an unregistered firearm you becom instant felon. I've talked to some of my friends that don't seem too feel the antifirearm sentiment is as strong in this country as what I'm seeing and hearing from my neighbors,wife etc.
Considering that this is Maine which is profirearm in the northern 2/3 of the state this makes me nervous about what the sentiment is out in the world where there are considerably more liberals and anti's.
What are oyher people seeing,hearing?
travellightfreezeatnight
12-21-12, 21:02
It is time to contact your elected officials, every member without exception.
http://nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/write-your-reps.aspx
semper fi
I'm in alabama. And I'm hearing from those that don't know any better that "no one needs an assault weapon". The media has done their job and IMHO it's not "what if" but when and it's not "when" but how bad. Sheeple don't think with logic but only emotion. The emotion being "we've got to do something". Even if that something doesn't, actually, do anything.
Have you read any of the comments from the news articles about Wayne Lapierres press conference today? They made me sick to my stomach and sad for my country. True, there are folks that will speak the truth. But, it doesn't seem like the truth counts for much these days. Molan Labe
I doubt that they will impose a ban that allows confiscation of firearms. How would they go about doing that? Will they send every cop and LEO out knocking on every door? Are they going to authorize a nationwide search warrant for every home?
Many firearms esp those bought on private sales have no record whatsoever. Sure it may be tracked to the original owner only, but after being sold many times there is no real way to track an AR, or any other firearm.
Also there will be massive lawsuits against Constitutional rights if LEA's come busting in your door to collect your firearms. It is a serious breach of rights (2nd and 4th).
morbidbattlecry
12-21-12, 21:34
What this will do is prevent the next generation of gun owners from having things the goverment doesn't want them to have. BTW Feinstien is a CCW holder. Love how she thinks she is important enough to protect herself but we mud people aren't.
So, where are the "massive lawsuits" against violating my second amendment rights. And, again, all they have to do is make it a felony for being caught with an "assault weapon". Then, there is no reason to confiscate them. 90% of the folks that currently own them will be standing in line to turn them in if they thought they were going to jail for a year or more if they got caught with one. At least 90% of those that own them legally..........
Something just occured to me. Im pretty sure I didn't come up with it. But it seems pretty profound at this time.
You are never free until you have nothing to loose. And, I'm not quite there. But I'm getting close.
I don't think some people on here, realize that the administration doesn't give a wit about the Constitution and what freedoms it protects. They have made that very clear to me. They are not going to let the pesky 2nd Amendment, or the rest of it, stop them from doing whatever they want in regards to stripping us of our rights. They will find ways to do it or make it up as they go.
I don't think some people on here, realize that the administration doesn't give a wit about the Constitution and what freedoms it protects. They have made that very clear to me. They are not going to let the pesky 2nd Amendment, or the rest of it, stop them from doing whatever they want in regards to stripping us of our rights. They will find ways to do it or make it up as they go.
POTUS aside, it never ceases to amaze me that for all the people in favor of gun control I engage in conversation with over this very topic none of them fully comprehend (by choice or teaching) the true essence of the 2nd amendment. To them it existed at time when everyone had muskets even though they refuse to acknowledge that the realization that the enemy had the same tools. They say 2A is old, antiquated, and outdated thus serving no purpose in modern times and in civilized nations. Attempts at education only go so far even with semi-intelligent and rationale people. Most just don't get it. Precedent, history, and patriotism mean nothing... all they know and submit to is fear and denial.
I hate how people believe that "No one needs an assault weapon". Mainly referring to semi-automatic rifles with a pistol grip. Does no one remember the LA riots where the Korean store owners protector their businesses with semi-automatic rifles? :rolleyes:
POTUS aside, it never ceases to amaze me that for all the people in favor of gun control I engage in conversation with over this very topic none of them fully comprehend (by choice or teaching) the true essence of the 2nd amendment. To them it existed at time when everyone had muskets even though they refuse to acknowledge that the realization that the enemy had the same tools. They say 2A is old, antiquated, and outdated thus serving no purpose in modern times and in civilized nations. Attempts at education only go so far even with semi-intelligent and rationale people. Most just don't get it. Precedent, history, and patriotism mean nothing... all they know and submit to is fear and denial.
They have been raised from childhood to fear guns and hate gunowners.... It is basicaly brainwashing.
*tin foil hat warning*
Anyone that understands the Bill of Rights knows that the 2nd Amendment is to safeguard the others...... Is it any surprise the 2nd Amendment is first on the chopping block?
They have been raised from childhood to fear guns and hate gunowners.... It is basicaly brainwashing.
Thats the other thing. Apparently the majority of people have a clinically significant inability to distinguish between glorification of guns, gun violence, and violence in general and vilification. Big difference...
[QUOTE=sabrefan;1477713]So, where are the "massive lawsuits" against violating my second amendment rights. And, again, all they have to do is make it a felony for being caught with an "assault weapon". Then, there is no reason to confiscate them. 90% of the folks that currently own them will be standing in line to turn them in if they thought they were going to jail for a year or more if they got caught with one. At least 90% of those that own them legally..........
Many will sell them to criminals or the like before turning them in for a complete loss.
I'm afraid that we will look back in time and realize that this was the golden age of gun ownership. There are numerous manufacturers of ARs, various other kinds of military style weapons, and quality handguns from so many companies.
Someday we will tell our kids and grand kids, we had it all. ARs, ACRs, Scars, AKs, etc. will be nothing but memories.
Also if the government tries to confiscate our guns I am certain that blood will flow. That might be the tipping point of the next revolution.
I hope I'm wrong.
HackerF15E
12-22-12, 06:53
Does no one remember the LA riots where the Korean store owners protector their businesses with semi-automatic rifles? :rolleyes:
Most of the videos -- at least the famous ones that were broadcast on tv -- actually show them with handguns.
montanadave
12-22-12, 07:21
Something just occured to me. Im pretty sure I didn't come up with it. But it seems pretty profound at this time.
You are never free until you have nothing to loose. And, I'm not quite there. But I'm getting close.
Janis Joplin fighting the good fight to preserve our right to bear arms. I never saw it comin' (and I'm gonna bet neither did she). :laugh:
According to NBC news, Dianne Feinsteins proposed ban would " outlaw the sale, transfer, importation and manufacture of more than 100 specifically-named firearms as well as certain semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds." That is basically just about any handgun or rifle you would generally use for self defense. This bill will be far more reaching then the original AWB if it goes through with this specific language. I can't believe a bill with this specific language would ever pass the House, but stranger things have happened.
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069537-nra-blames-media-music-and-more-for-culture-of-violence?lite
.... it never ceases to amaze me that for all the people in favor of gun control I engage in conversation with over this very topic none of them fully comprehend (by choice or teaching) the true essence of the 2nd amendment.
What you think is the true essence of the second amendment, you mean. A significant portion of the country, maybe even the majority, thinks that you are the one that doesn't understand the second amendment, right? In fact, it appears that 4 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices disagree with your interpretation too...
I hate how people believe that "No one needs an assault weapon". Mainly referring to semi-automatic rifles with a pistol grip. Does no one remember the LA riots where the Korean store owners protector their businesses with semi-automatic rifles? :rolleyes:
It crazy how quickly things can go south. The right environment + the right circumstances is all that is needed. That's when would truly appreciate what you own.
I've tried to explain this to my wife, but it's like talking to a wall.
Here's what I see may be a framework for the next ban. Future sales will be banned. We will get to keep what we have but won't be able to buy spare parts. Possibly an ammo tax. Websites like this will be closely monitored if they aren't already.
According to NBC news, Dianne Feinsteins proposed ban would " outlaw the sale, transfer, importation and manufacture of more than 100 specifically-named firearms as well as certain semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds." That is basically just about any handgun or rifle you would generally use for self defense. This bill will be far more reaching then the original AWB if it goes through with this specific language. I can't believe a bill with this specific language would ever pass the House, but stranger things have happened.
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069537-nra-blames-media-music-and-more-for-culture-of-violence?lite
She wants us carrying muskets and flintlocks...
i am sure they are monitoring us as other sites .i had to Bring out the "why I should own a M4 "to my mother in Law and I have to say i got through to her She realized by Just taking One weapon platform it sets the stage for another weapon Maybe the Common Lever action 30-30 .
the media seems to Love this crap they think it is good reporting ,But they fail to see after the second Amendment falls so will the first which they cling to in reporting the so called News :help:
I've posted several times on The Firing Line about being very careful about what you post. If there is ever a self-defence shooting or other case involving you and firearms, you can bet that every post you've EVER written will be looked at.
If any of you frequent James Rawles' SurvivalBlog.com, just a few months ago the FBI was loading tracking cookies on people who visit that site.
I've posted several times on The Firing Line about being very careful about what you post. If there is ever a self-defence shooting or other case involving you and firearms, you can bet that every post you've EVER written will be looked at.
You can also bet that activity on firearm related websites will drop as gun owners will be trying to fly under the radar. No more pics of the latest mod or build. I am lucky I live in the middle of nowhere that allows me to shoot on my own ranch land. I tend to think that beginning some time in the future, the gunowning public may operate like bootleggers did during Prohibition. Instead of gunshows, we'll have little groups get together in private homes for trading of guns and accessories
What i find worying is the lack of response from the Republicans. I hope I'm wrong, but i think you are being sold out as we speak.:mad:
...they have to have been on your side in the first place. The Republican party hasn't been on our side in a long time. They just did as little as they could to keep us on their side.
Has anyone seen Gov. Cuomo's interview in the NY Times? He's dropping forced sale to the state or a permitting program...! I'm glad I live in the Midwest. I was seriously considering a job at Pratt & Whitney a few years ago, but I ultimately passed because we have no family out there and I DID NOT want to move to a ban state.
I think blue, cash strapped states like NY & the People's Republic of California will go the permitting route so they can tout "action" and squeeze even more money from their populace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
If some feel like the Rep Party is not doing enough. Fine. But consider this. There is a lot of senseless outrage and anything that is said to the mainstream media will be distorted and used in countless soundbytes to infuriate the general public.
Look at the Wayne LaPierre's comments. Probably not the route he should have taken. You can't turn on the a non-Fox new network with that being used against us.
If we want to minimize any possible legislation, we NEED our potiticians to be just that "POLITICIANS". Sly enough to calm the masses by being compassionate and dodging the loaded questions.
I suggest you take the same path with your friends and family. In the end popular opinion will win and we ALL have influence. Be it negative or positive. There's very little in between.
Some gutless turds ran around with ARs with no flash hiders or bayo studs...
As as they were known in some places, non-prison inmates....
;)
If some feel like the Rep Party is not doing enough. Fine. But consider this. There is a lot of senseless outrage and anything that is said to the mainstream media will be distorted and used in countless soundbytes to infuriate the general public.
Look at the Wayne LaPierre's comments. Probably not the route he should have taken. You can't turn on the a non-Fox new network with that being used against us.
If we want to minimize any possible legislation, we NEED our potiticians to be just that "POLITICIANS". Sly enough to calm the masses by being compassionate and dodging the loaded questions.
I suggest you take the same path with your friends and family. In the end popular opinion will win and we ALL have influence. Be it negative or positive. There's very little in between.
Honest and rational.
And sure to be misunderstood by some.
If pro-gun politicians took the path that some think they should, we'd probably all own single shot .22's locked up at our gun clubs.
No ban yet, but I wonder if thet will grandfather stuff again...
It would be a radical reverse on existing precedent for it to be any other way. There would be no tenable way for the people pushing a new ban to pass it with a confiscatory element attached nor would there be any sort of workable scheme to enforce it.
It doesn't matter what the "last one" did, it matters what the "next one" will do.
The same career politicians that wrote the last one are writing this one and I guarantee you they learned from their "mistakes" on the last one.
Exactly.
While they may be a "grandfather clause", I would expect it to be like California's, where you can keep it, but you can't sell it or give it away to anyone.
Here's a good way to enforce it. If you are caught with an "assault weapon" you get a year or more in jail. A felony. I keep an Ar in my vehicle at all times. So, either I don't carry it and am defenseless, or I am a criminal. They can't get them all at once, but just a few going to jail will make them disappear quickly.
Yup. There won't be any door to door seizures, just the risk of years in prison for those who get caught.
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