View Full Version : ?? for those with HK LEM trigger
What is the proper way to use this trigger set up? I've always been kinda confused by this.. assuming we're training,drawing the pistol, cold shot,timed,(say about 3 seconds)..Do you A. line the sights up, and pull the trigger all the way through..Or B. line the sights up and pull the trigger back to the "wall", or stage it if you will, and then fire? or is this a personal preference?
DanjojoUSMC
12-18-12, 10:45
Only stage if doing slow-fire shooting for groups. Everything else is just squeezing away with sights on target and a grip that keeps front sight from wandering too much. Sometimes staging makes you focus too much on when the trigger will break instead of keeping the front sight on target.
Generally, personal preference.
When I shoot for accuracy I take out slack when going into aiming zone, when sights confirmed I start to squeeze to break the shot. Exactly same way I do with SA trigger in .22lr target pistol only LEM has much longer slack. Then I wait for gun to cycle completely until I let trigger to reset point (if shooting shot after shot) or to full forward (if shooting separate shots with rest between shots).
When I shoot for speed (competition), I start to take out slack during draw, but this happens on press out. I do not put finger inside triggerguard until barrel is directed toward targets. At the end of press out, when sights settle on target, I break the shot as fast as target size and distance (and my skill) allows.
Generally I use LEM like 2 stage SA trigger with very, very, very long first stage.
I used to use my LEM similar to a 2 stage trigger as well. I'd prep the trigger on press out to the point of breaking the shot, then insure sight alignment and break the shot.
That was my preference, but it took a while to get trained to to do so. I would advocate against doing the trigger prepping unless you train the crap out of it. Even though you are prepping the trigger on press out and should be pointed safely down range, inadvertently letting a round down range before you are certain of the sight alignment/picture is not a good thing. Train, train, train and when you think you are good to go train some more.
Continuous pressure build up trying to avoid staging as much as I can.
For those that have shot both..is the LEM like the PPQ trigger? The PPQ I dry fired at the LGS has a bunch of takeup with very little weight.
I used to use my LEM similar to a 2 stage trigger as well. I'd prep the trigger on press out to the point of breaking the shot, then insure sight alignment and break the shot.
That was my preference, but it took a while to get trained to to do so. I would advocate against doing the trigger prepping unless you train the crap out of it. Even though you are prepping the trigger on press out and should be pointed safely down range, inadvertently letting a round down range before you are certain of the sight alignment/picture is not a good thing. Train, train, train and when you think you are good to go train some more.
This^^^^
About 100 rds into my first pistol pistol course I managed to comfortable and consistently stage the trigger during the press and then break the trigger once sights were properly aligned. I would not recommend this to someone not familiar with the LEM variants unless as TAZ mentioned you in a training environment. Since my LEM USPc is essentially the only pistol I shoot I feel confident in my abilities to stage the trigger in this manner. This may change since I bought a shield however.
For those that have shot both..is the LEM like the PPQ trigger? The PPQ I dry fired at the LGS has a bunch of takeup with very little weight.
Doug,
I think the PPQ trigger is somewhere between a glock and LEM.
I also think the PPQ is the best trigger I've pulled on a DA gun. Had I not found a shield locally on election day I would have a PPQ.
Generally I use LEM like 2 stage SA trigger with very, very, very long first stage.
This is precisely how I describe the LEM to people who have not had any direct experience with the trigger system.
Personally, I feel the PPQ trigger is closer to somewhere between a Glock and a M&P with an Apex kit installed. The length of take-up on the LEM is pretty singular, and does not really compare to any other handgun triggers I have hands on experience with.
On the LEM I also try to take up most of the travel on press out if I am shooting for competition/speed, and break the shot with a clear sight picture. I then pretty much shoot reset, letting the trigger out during recoil. When I was first learning the trigger, I would catch myself "snatching" pretty badly as I was racing through the take up, and this often caused me to jerk on the trigger break. It is a difficult trigger to learn IMHO, but once you are used to it is is very smooth system.
It is a difficult trigger to learn IMHO, but once you are used to it is is very smooth system.
I use LEM for like 10 years now. Initially I got it in German Police Model P2000 (v0). It was love from first sight, lasted some 100 rounds. Then there was about 2000 rounds of pure hate and then real love came back :haha:
Hogsgunwild
12-19-12, 06:30
For those that have shot both..is the LEM like the PPQ trigger? The PPQ I dry fired at the LGS has a bunch of takeup with very little weight.
Besides what the other gentlemen have already stated I'll add that a practical difference between the LEM trigger and the PPQ's trigger is that to stay proficient with the LEM trigger always took me quite a bit more time, work and training when compared to the PPQ. The PPQ is a very straight forward, practical, user friendly trigger which I can walk away from for a month or even shoot other platforms for awhile and then come back to and feel like I have not missed a beat. If I try to come back to Glocks, M&Ps or even my 1911s, I am frustrated for a good while. That is more than just the trigger in play here but I feel that the trigger is a big help in my ability to acclimate so well and quickly to the PPQ. If you stick with the LEM, expect to practice more to master it.
Just my experience and opinion but the LEM seems to be recognized as requiring more attention to master.
Psalms144.1
12-19-12, 08:33
This is how I run the LEM trigger on my P30 & P2000 - immediately after orienting the muzzle towards the target, AND MAKING THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO FIRE, I get on the trigger and press through the long, light "take up." I keep increasing pressure on the trigger during my press out, and, when I'm working the gun properly, the hammer falls at or near full extension. This takes a ton of dry fire practice to get the timing and press down well, but, once it's ingrained, it makes the from the holster presentation and firing of the pistol very smooth and accurate.
That's one of the things that I've come to love about the LEM trigger - it really thrives on a hard prep during the presentation, which is something that is really a "fine motor skill" to accomplish with the Glock and other striker fired pistols. I also find it significantly easier to "catch the reset" and re-prep the trigger on the LEM; with SF pistols the reset is so short, and the pull so light that it's too easy, for me, to unintentionally "double" when trying to prep the trigger between shots. The net result of that is that I, like a lot of shooters, just "ride the reset," then wait til the sights realign and snatch the trigger on the SF pistol...
YYMV, of course, but, that's my experience with the two trigger systems.
Regards,
Kevin
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