View Full Version : New Stabilizing Brace for AR15 Pistol "SB15"
Hi everyone,
I’m new to this forum, so I thought I'd give some info on my new project. I have been developing with the Chief Prosthetis at local Veterans Hospital a Stabilizing Brace (SB15) for the ar15 pistol, and a few other pistols that are similar in format, that I think all of us here will appreciate. The product is Patent Pending and I have attached the ATF Approval as well. I am a veteran and after 12 years of service and various deployments I have some mobility issues with my shooting hand and arm and the intent of the SB15 is to assist those with limited strength or mobility while shooting from the one-handed pistol precision stance or one handed supported stance. I think my product also finally gives some extra aesthetic value to the pistol version of the AR15. Attached are some pictures of the prototype that I sent to the ATF for their evaluation and approval. The actual version will be in Black, Sand and Olive drab and wont have any of the defects you see on the original.
I've already done a few range days with some wounded vets and will be doing it again towards the end of the month. If you're in the St. Petersburg area and want to participate let me know!
It would be nice to get some feedback from you guys!
Thanks
Alex
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4639.jpg
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4619.jpg
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4722.jpg
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/ATFApprovalLetter1-1.jpg
Interesting idea. I hope the membership doesn't mind my first post is responding to this thread. I recently became a new AR15 owner and signed up here. I hadn't done a formal introduction yet and I saw this.
First, my compliments for taking on the task to work on a way to adapt equipment for an upper limb disability. I do feel a connection as I too have a similar issue. I lost the use of my left arm years ago so I have no support hand for rifles or handguns. I have done some rigging of my own to do some activities. Designing equipment is a challenge to say the least.
The reach through design will offer very good support. What do the pistol versions weigh?
Here's a consideration for design, an extendable version so the stock can be extended to fit closer to the elbow (but you've probably already thought of that :o). With that said, it makes sense that leverage is being applied to the buffer tube with use over time. I'd be curious to know if this becomes an issue if at all. Think it could eventually bend a buffer tube enough to interfere with cycling? Seems improbable but just had to ask the question.
Best wishes on your venture. I do hope this is a success. :smile:
I never thought of the buffer tube bending being an issue? I guess it depends on how much stress is being placed there, but I cant imagine there is enough stress to bend the tube. We are presently working on an extendable version...the longer the barrel the longer the need to move aft of the weapon to compensate the weight while firing with one hand. In terms of weight I have seen the AR15 pistols weigh anywhere between 5 and 8 pounds depending on barrel length and accessories. A fully loaded 30 round mag weighs in at just about a pound. So if you do have some kind of mobility issue or are missing a limb, controlling the weapon becomes an issue. But you know this all to well!! Thanks for the feed back and let me know if you have any more ideas...they are more than welcome!
Here's a photo of the most recent SB15 I just finished...
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4734_zpsf1c9af0a.jpg
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4736_zps4b6539a1.jpg
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/alessandrorbosco/IMG_4733_zps9805a2f4.jpg
polydeuces
12-26-12, 09:38
Are those most recent ones made of the same materials?
They appear to be of hard plasic with chin support - if so you probably know better than me where that would take you...
Other than that, really applaud your effort - good luck!
The Whole thing is made of Medical Grade Rubber. The "Chin Supports" dont change anything, as the product is intended and designed to fire the AR15 pistol with one hand. How would you put your chin on there once the SB15 is strapped to your arm? Now if you use it to fire from the shoulder that would be an inappropriate use of my product. Not illegal but not what I designed it for. It's the same as using a buffer tube to shoot from the shoulder...it's not illegal, but do people shoot it that way? Of course!
Apricotshot
12-26-12, 09:56
The Whole thing is made of Medical Grade Rubber. The "Chin Supports" dont change anything, as the product is intended and designed to fire the AR15 pistol with one hand. How would you put your chin on there once the SB15 is strapped to your arm? Now if you use it to fire from the shoulder that would be an inappropriate use of my product. Not illegal but not what I designed it for. It's the same as using a buffer tube to shoot from the shoulder...it's not illegal, but do people shoot it that way? Of course!
Then why do you have an AFG on the forearm? ;)
To Keep the rails clear of the bench when firing it. Most of the guys who have fired it with me, either have a missing limb or the use of only one arm. To fire the weapon with one hand, they bench it from the sitting position. They use the AFG to lean the weapon on a rest. If I were to take it off, they would be leaning the bottom rails directly to the bench and it would eventually scratch up the bottom of the pistol.
second example sure does look like it's converted a pistol to be shot from the shoulder. in fact i looks a WHOLE lot like a VLTOR stock.
BIG difference between the approved version and the second version to my eye. second one clearly looks like a stock first one is clearly an addition to a buffer tube.
I can assure you that the first piece that I sent to the ATF and the Last one you see are exactly the same, except that one is black and is Aesthetically different, but the material is exactly the same. I have spoken with the ATF and they have cleared me to change the "Aesthetics" as long as the design and intention has not changed. Putting a chin rest on the AR pistol does not change the definition of the pistol either. In fact the ATF has already ruled that a CAA Saddle can be place on a buffer tube because it is not intended or designed to allow you to fire the pistol from the shoulder. And again, if you use my product the way I've designed, you wont be able to use it as a chin rest. Can you inappropriately use my product...absolutely yes. Can you inappropriately use a buffer tube as a stock...absolutely yes again...but that is not illegal.
very nice design. well done. but it looks like SBR :)
It does look like an SBR, but I can assure you that its' function and design are to assist those with limited mobility due to a handicap. Many, if not most of the emails I've received so far have said they would buy it for the aesthetic reason that you mention. Not sure what to say there, but I can assure you that the SB15 will help anyone shoot better when firing an AR pistol from the pistol position. Thanks for the feedback!
Alex
Mr.Anderson
12-31-12, 16:07
It does look like an SBR, but I can assure you that its' function and design are to assist those with limited mobility due to a handicap. Many, if not most of the emails I've received so far have said they would buy it for the aesthetic reason that you mention. Not sure what to say there, but I can assure you that the SB15 will help anyone shoot better when firing an AR pistol from the pistol position. Thanks for the feedback!
Alex
I'd say nothin else about it and sell them to folks as you intended it to be. Pretty neat design. I think it makes a nice addition to a, uh, pistol. :)
7.62WildBill
12-31-12, 22:12
I guess if the shooter had a disability, this could have a place. It is better than the "chin" stock we saw a few months back.
sixthofjune44
01-07-13, 15:33
This looks like a great product for assisting shooters. Kudos and congrats! How can one get more info?
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This looks like a great product for assisting shooters. Kudos and congrats! How can one get more info?
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm always available through IM's and will be glad to get you all of the info you need!
Alex
I have two friends who are veterans who would benefit from this, one is missing all of hos left arm up to the shoulder and the other is missing a good chuck of his left arm but still has limited use for some things.
I think it is a very intersting idea that could really hel people.
TED
If one were to fire this from the shoulder would it be "illegal" i would think merely firing your pistol from the shoulder does not now make your pistol a rifle?
Sig is marketing something like this.....I'm....not sure of the use and REALLY not sure you can't call this a stock,if I'm lucky enough to be around one I'll try to shoulder it.
I can use an AR with the carbine stock all the way shut FYI so I don't see why I couldn't with this.
Just had a chance to handle a SIG P556 equipped with one of these in a gun store today and...... it works just fine as a shoulder stock. I have never bought an SBR because I didn't care for the hassle or extra expense (and didn't like funding the ATF either). I never bought an AR Pistol because they seemed silly to me. This has changed things. It was solidly built and I was able to perform manual of arms as with a rifle. You can mount it at whatever Length of Pull you choose with a little creativity.
The dealer, who also sells NFA items, said that they had a long conversation with their local ATF agent that does their inspections and was told that it's 100% legal to use however you want. In other words, no danger of being arrested if someone sees you using it as a stock. If that should change, so be it, but for now, have fun.
Does it require a specific tube to mount to?
I think this thing, especially the second version, is asking for trouble. I’m all for helping disabled vets, and if someone has a disability or mobility issue with one arm or hand I can see this having a legitimate use. But it really looks like your goal here is to skirt the law which is obviously not going to be met with a lot of support from members, like me, of the general firearms community that are trying so hard to prove we are responsible law abiding members of a society that is out to demonize us.
Personally think you should have gone out of your way to make sure it could not be used as a stock. I think it would have been more effective to make a soft cuff with a semi-rigid ring on top that would stay on the shooter's arm and could be slipped over the buffer tube from the back as the gun is picked up and could be slid back off the buffer tube as the gun is let go of. I think that is much more practical for someone with a disability than the concept of semi-permanently strapping their only good hand onto the gun. How is a disabled person supposed to do a one handed reload when their only good hand is strapped to the buffer tube?
If you think that another design is better, then go design it.
Sig is marketing something like this.....I'm....not sure of the use and REALLY not sure you can't call this a stock,if I'm lucky enough to be around one I'll try to shoulder it.
I can use an AR with the carbine stock all the way shut FYI so I don't see why I couldn't with this.
I think this is one and the same.
doesn`t sig already offer a very similar product already?this just appears to be a copy!
armed_zebra
07-24-13, 14:18
My LGS has some of these in stock and I was able to check one out. When strapped to my forearm and the pistol grip in my shooting hand, I am unable to 1) line up the sights due to the angle at which the gun is canted or 2) reach the mag release button. The "strap" is indeed made of a very dense rubber which is in the shape of a traditional butt stock and can easily be pushed into the shoulder for a proper cheek weld.
To me, unless shooting from the hip without using the sights, this will not allow for proper pistol shooting techniques to be used.
doesn`t sig already offer a very similar product already?this just appears to be a copy!
Pretty sure he licensed it to Sig.
I don’t think you’re trying to be argumentative and neither am I, but I think you missed my point.
I think the market for a device that is only practical for one handed shooters who use AR-15 pistols is extremely small.
Despite the claim that this device is intended for a disabled person it is not particularly well suited for its expressed purpose while at the same time being suspiciously well suited for use as a make shift stock (see the above post). For its expressed use the device must be strapped to the shooters arm but in all but one of the pictures posted the device doesn’t even have the straps installed. For its expressed use, as the OP himself pointed out, the cheek rest could not possibly be used. For a device that is expressly not a stock it has been shaped very carefully to mimic one. It’s designed to look like a stock and function like a stock.
My point was not that a better design needed made for its expressed purpose, but that the expressed purpose of this device is clearly not the real purpose.
Agreed but I fail to see the problem.
I think this is one and the same.
Wouldn't surprise me.
Whatever the case may be I'll just stay away from this as no telling when the ATF may change their minds over just what this is.....they do that fairly regular.
WickedWillis
07-24-13, 17:48
This post was running before sig announced the one's they are working on.
doesn`t sig already offer a very similar product already?this just appears to be a copy!
i used 1 this weekend. my buddy put 1 on his noveske build. this thing is 100% legit and i ordered 1 for my DD 300blk upper. you pair this thing with a law tactical folder and you are golden
i used 1 this weekend. my buddy put 1 on his noveske build. this thing is 100% legit and i ordered 1 for my DD 300blk upper. you pair this thing with a law tactical folder and you are golden
That right there is a great idea.
steyrman13
08-19-13, 23:45
This post was running before sig announced the one's they are working on.
The ATF letter that Sig has to print off to go with their pistol is the same letter that he posted, so I would imagine he licensed it to sig.
I think this thing, especially the second version, is asking for trouble. I’m all for helping disabled vets, and if someone has a disability or mobility issue with one arm or hand I can see this having a legitimate use. But it really looks like your goal here is to skirt the law which is obviously not going to be met with a lot of support from members, like me, of the general firearms community that are trying so hard to prove we are responsible law abiding members of a society that is out to demonize us.
Personally think you should have gone out of your way to make sure it could not be used as a stock. I think it would have been more effective to make a soft cuff with a semi-rigid ring on top that would stay on the shooter's arm and could be slipped over the buffer tube from the back as the gun is picked up and could be slid back off the buffer tube as the gun is let go of. I think that is much more practical for someone with a disability than the concept of semi-permanently strapping their only good hand onto the gun. How is a disabled person supposed to do a one handed reload when their only good hand is strapped to the buffer tube?
my friend you are thinking WAY too much. your first thought was exactly right. no one is suppose to use this thing 1 handed, you simply cant. this is exactly what it looks like. a butstock. end of story. i personally went out of my way to get 1 for no other reason than you can use it as a stock, to "skirt"the law as you so put it. because as a responsible gun owner like yourself i feel it is my duty to follow the letter of the law as the atf so states it. and if they say this arm brace, which works perfectly as a butstock, is legal then by george ill take 3
Mr.Anderson
08-20-13, 05:36
Would there be an issue if the BATF saw someone using the "brace" like a stock?
Or, if you were on video and someone wanted to ruin your day?
I think the whole SBR/Suppressed laws are a bunch of bull butter.
Unfortunately, my opinion of them don't change a thing.
So, I gotta keep it "legal".
Looks like someone decide to test what ALL of us were thinking when we saw this thing.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/18/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-review/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_1505.jpg
Apricotshot
08-20-13, 07:04
One of these from Sig came to the shop this weekend. You can totally use this for a stock. Nose to charging handle style.
Would there be an issue if the BATF saw someone using the "brace" like a stock?
Or, if you were on video and someone wanted to ruin your day?
I think the whole SBR/Suppressed laws are a bunch of bull butter.
Unfortunately, my opinion of them don't change a thing.
So, I gotta keep it "legal".
while i am not 1 to want to wager much coin on logic and reasoning here you almost cant avoid it. if you have physically held 1 of these things in your hand or on a pistol there is absolutely no question what it is and how best to use it.
with that said this thing was created with a clear "INTENT" in mind. and that intent was in theory to assist a user in 1 hand shooting. this "INTENT" is a clear loophole in the law. it wont be the first and im sure it wont be the last.
so the ASSumption here is the ATF clearly knows what this thing is and they chose to give it their stamp of approval. so that would lead 1 to ASSume that if you were seen using it as a butstock that you would not get in trouble. and if you have ever met any members of the ATF and come to know that they feel the same way about guns that we do and are simply doing a job 1 could also possibly ASSume that maybe whoever was in charge of approving this thing did so intentionally giving law abiding gun owners a way around a very useless law
lastly as i have told several people since i have had a chance to play with this thing. they would go after bumpfire stocks before this thing. and since those are still around it doesnt seem like there is too much to worry about here
Looks like someone decide to test what ALL of us were thinking when we saw this thing.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/18/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-review/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_1505.jpg
now these guys are clearly ****ing up :nono:. they do realize it IS illegal to put a grip on a pistol like that. not the sharpest knives in the drawer. good review though
EDIT
"I asked my friend CJ if we could put a pistol buffer on his registered AR15 SBR (this explains the foregrip as well) and test this thing out by using it as both an arm brace and a stock. So here goes."
now these guys are clearly ****ing up :nono:. they do realize it IS illegal to put a grip on a pistol like that. not the sharpest knives in the drawer. good review though
They used an SBR for the review so as not to ruffle any ATFeathers.
They used an SBR for the review so as not to ruffle any ATFeathers.
no yea i noted that in my edit.
TurretGunner
08-21-13, 09:45
Sorry if its been stated,
But does this work with a Carbine RE or just a pistol tube?
Sorry if its been stated,
But does this work with a Carbine RE or just a pistol tube?
Don't think it would. Adjustment slot on bottom of carbine tube would be in the way. Would probably work on a rifle (A1/A2) tube.
TurretGunner
08-23-13, 09:25
Don't think it would. Adjustment slot on bottom of carbine tube would be in the way. Would probably work on a rifle (A1/A2) tube.
That's even betterer....
I need the additional LOP,,,,,ER I mean I have long forearms.
This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. Especialy to the Non-SBR states and people who don't want to play the NFA game.
That's even betterer....
I need the additional LOP,,,,,ER I mean I have long forearms.
This thing is going to sell like hotcakes. Especialy to the Non-SBR states and people who don't want to play the NFA game.
i put my lower together last night. my LGS had 7. they lasted 4 days. 3 went to employees before they even hit the shelf.
as a person who has already shot 1 of these things i am telling you right now there is no need to sbr a lower as long as these things exist
TurretGunner
08-23-13, 09:33
i put my lower together last night. my LGS had 7. they lasted 4 days. 3 went to employees before they even hit the shelf.
as a person who has already shot 1 of these things i am telling you right now there is no need to sbr a lower as long as these things exist
*whips out CC and places and order with PSA*
Thanks brother!
Will definitely have to get one of these.
The ATF won't pop you for them, but states do have their own laws. I'd pay close attention to the definitions of "SBR," "stock," "pistol," etc., in your state statutes.
Just a thought I had.
Otherwise, love to see "loopholes" in ineffective and unconstitutional laws.
Mr.Anderson
08-24-13, 03:35
Until BATF change their minds :rolleyes:
This is where the user with one working arm has the advantage when compared to the able bodied guy. Least s/he can show a need for the brace. It is after all who the product was intended for. I suppose the second in line user would be the pistol guys.
That's my concern. They'll change their mind or come up with some new never before heard of technicality regarding its use.
We all know that adding a vertical grip to a pistol doesn't change the fact that the pistol was still originally designed to be fired with one hand, but when you add that small part they claim the whole design of the gun changes. I would be very concerned that ANY modifications to this stabilization device could be viewed as changing the whole intent of the design. Something as simple as removing the straps and velcro make it so it can't be used as originally intended. Any kind of spacer used to hold it back at a certain position on the buffer tube could be construed as modifying it into a stock.
The manufacturer has his butt covered here with its "intended" purpose. It's the little guy, some random end user, who is going to get popped by some previously unheard of bad ruling on this.
Do you think it's common for people to be charged with weapons crimes nobody knows about? It's your job to know the laws that effect you. If you follow the law, you're not going to get into trouble. If the ATF decides this thing is, or that a configuration of it makes it a stock, they'll let everyone know and make a decent effort to contact people who bought them and let them know well before they start prosecuting people for it... and probably not a single person will be. This is how it's been done in the past, there's no reason to think they'd change it up.
The ATF has never shown a propensity for trying to trick people into committing crimes. They're a law enforcement agency like any other, full of people that have varying views on varying topics, but they're not out to get you.
I do love the blast of an AR pistol in an indoor range, unfortunately the closest public range has stopped allowing rifle calibers. I have since been obsessed with acquiring a pistol caliber carbine and I'm lusting after the Sig MPX. I'm not sure if the carbine version with suppressor core/brake will be CA legal and I have started considering going for the MPX pistol.
My question is does anyone know of any legal issues (not necessarily CA specific) with adding a pistol receiver extension to a firearm that doesn't require it's use? Perusing Sig's site, it looks like they are adding the sb15 to their p556 pistol which doesn't require a receiver extension. It does look like the side folding MPX stock does have a castle nut and swapping out to a pistol receiver shouldn't be too hard.
Sig p556 pistol
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/edmateo50/1377362732_zps6904fec7.jpg
Sig p556 with sb15
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/edmateo50/1377362708_zps6f90ea5a.jpg
Sig MPX pistol
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/edmateo50/1377364932_zps6027c28e.jpg
The latest Sig MPX side folding stock appears to have a castle nut.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/edmateo50/photo2_zps2abbaeea.jpg
Mr.Anderson
08-24-13, 20:24
Heck you wont have to worry bout anything if we use it like in picture #2 and just add a 100rnd c-mag. Heck, we could strap one to EACH arm! Ha
:D
TurretGunner
08-25-13, 09:46
Heck you wont have to worry bout anything if we use it like in picture #2 and just add a 100rnd c-mag. Heck, we could strap one to EACH arm! Ha
:D
I was thinking the same thing.
Imagine the liberals pissing their pants when someone decides to open carry two of them with beta mags.
They need to make a chainsaw adapter as well for the obvious!
As I think the tube only pistol is butt ugly, my 11.5" was intended as a placeholder till getting around to an SBR. But with Sig endorsing it I feel totally confident it will pass the legal smell test and somewhat confident it will be more functionally friendly. Worth a shot anyway. PSA has a free shipping - ordered today.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/sig-sauer-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-psb-ar-blk.html
This is the one topic that amazes me when members I respect highly get so emotional in their anti responses. Yes, they are half hideous -- like a tux without pants. This device goes a long way addressing that defect. Otherwise I think it ridiculous to castigate for what it does not do. The pros of conforming to handgun carry rules, class by itself for truck gun firepower, and simply not wanting to sign up to be at the top the shortlist for confiscation when/if, seem like highly valid reasons to get one especially after stockpiling sufficient (Ha!) 14.5, 16, and 18 inchers.
TurretGunner
09-06-13, 14:30
Looks like PSA is now selling a Factory Sig "pistol"with this
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/sig-sauer-pm400-5-56-nato-11-5-pistol-w-sb15-stabilizing-brace-pm400-11b-s-psb.html
Anyone have more pics on their pistols? My next build is going to use one of these.
I wonder if filing/sanding off the top strap guide would turn it into a SBR?
The SB15 arrived today and it is better than I had hoped. Very stiff,not the feared foam rubber. It fits the tube very tightly, a little talc and forcefully push and turn till it's where you need it. Mine is set NTCH. Foregoing easily changing length is no big deal in a home defense shorty. Cheek weld is comfortable and stable. the thick upper tube cover portion has no flex. With the velcro strap tight only the bottom of the flap below the tube will flex laterally. I can't comment on usefulness for a handicapped shooter. I can say it makes for better balance, a more stable platform and looks better IMO than some of the popular stocks. Might not be the right choice for extensive combat drills, but handy for on-call HD, and ban states.
The posts about this device are some of the most disappointing I have read on this forum. First there are the naysayers who mock while never having seen, much less evaluated it's usefulness, I can only observe that many of you are the same high-count posters who rightfully castigate others for giving an opinion without personal experience. If it serves it's purpose well is it really mall ninja? What better tool is available for those who would prefer to maintain a low profile and choose not to wait 6-10 months for the government granted "priviledge" of having a usable short AR?
Second are the number of members whose judgement I usually trust who are against it because they don't want to rile the grabbers. Don't push the envelope or "they" might come down on us and restrict our rights even more. I understand that strategy, but believe it just plays into the hands of the incrementalists. I hope Sig sells a million of these and we see many positive stories of their use. Could be some much needed good PR for second amendment support amongst the non-shooting public.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-25.jpg (http://s150.phothttp://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-24.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-22.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/image-22.jpg.html)http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-21.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/image-21.jpg.html)
Mr.Anderson
09-06-13, 22:27
Im with ya.
I'll be grabbing one of these.
Seems like these things were a hit at the last gunshow. At least there was plenty of em for sale on the tables. I have yet to play with one myself.
TurretGunner
09-09-13, 19:02
The SB15 arrived today and it is better than I had hoped. Very stiff,not the feared foam rubber. It fits the tube very tightly, a little talc and forcefully push and turn till it's where you need it. Mine is set NTCH. Foregoing easily changing length is no big deal in a home defense shorty. Cheek weld is comfortable and stable. the thick upper tube cover portion has no flex. With the velcro strap tight only the bottom of the flap below the tube will flex laterally. I can't comment on usefulness for a handicapped shooter. I can say it makes for better balance, a more stable platform and looks better IMO than some of the popular stocks. Might not be the right choice for extensive combat drills, but handy for on-call HD, and ban states.
The posts about this device are some of the most disappointing I have read on this forum. First there are the naysayers who mock while never having seen, much less evaluated it's usefulness, I can only observe that many of you are the same high-count posters who rightfully castigate others for giving an opinion without personal experience. If it serves it's purpose well is it really mall ninja? What better tool is available for those who would prefer to maintain a low profile and choose not to wait 6-10 months for the government granted "priviledge" of having a usable short AR?
Second are the number of members whose judgement I usually trust who are against it because they don't want to rile the grabbers. Don't push the envelope or "they" might come down on us and restrict our rights even more. I understand that strategy, but believe it just plays into the hands of the incrementalists. I hope Sig sells a million of these and we see many positive stories of their use. Could be some much needed good PR for second amendment support amongst the non-shooting public.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-25.jpg (http://s150.phothttp://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-24.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-22.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/image-22.jpg.html)http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/image-21.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/image-21.jpg.html)
Looks good!
So what buffer are you running?
Any chance it will work with a normal carbine buffer?
I think I am going to swap this 11.5" upper for my LMT 10.5" as it's lighter and quicker to maneuver indoors. From what I've read an H2 should be good for the mil-spec 55gr I will use. I'll bring an H along in case of problems. I would love to try an A5 but it would kill me to grind down the tube to fit the brace.
I thought I read somewhere that an LMT enhanced BCG worked well for 10.5", but now I see only for 14.5" or longer?
GUNSLINGER733
09-11-13, 21:20
I was looking at these on PSA sight the other day. Cool idea
My SB15 is from Sig. They sell both with their gun and separately. I believe the individual you refer to is the inventor who sold the design to Sig.
uncommon commoner
09-12-13, 18:36
I think I am going to swap this 11.5" upper for my LMT 10.5" as it's lighter and quicker to maneuver indoors. From what I've read an H2 should be good for the mil-spec 55gr I will use. I'll bring an H along in case of problems. I would love to try an A5 but it would kill me to grind down the tube to fit the brace.
I thought I read somewhere that an LMT enhanced BCG worked well for 10.5", but now I see only for 14.5" or longer?
Don't have to grind the the A5 tube. Just use a long enough COPING SAW and notch the SB15. It may or may not remain rigid enough to still work back on the pistol tube.
That might work, but I don't want to risk a ending up with a floppy brace or using a stock-mountable extension tube with all the spare AR stocks I have. Some zealous enforcer peeved that my brace is legit could nail me for the old constructive intent. I know, unlikely, but costs little to avoid.
I put a hundred rounds through the 10.5 at the range today and am delighted with the shorty and the stock. No problems with an H2 buffer and blue Sprinco. Irons were right on and eventually got the RMR tuned in. The SB15 worked out about as well as any stock I've used. If you don't need to change reach, it's GTG for range and HD in my book.
Fun to also zero in an old SP1. Last time I fired one like that was 1969 in far-away land.
The SB15 arrived today and it is better than I had hoped. Very stiff,not the feared foam rubber. It fits the tube very tightly, a little talc and forcefully push and turn till it's where you need it. Mine is set NTCH. Foregoing easily changing length is no big deal in a home defense shorty. Cheek weld is comfortable and stable. the thick upper tube cover portion has no flex. With the velcro strap tight only the bottom of the flap below the tube will flex laterally. I can't comment on usefulness for a handicapped shooter. I can say it makes for better balance, a more stable platform and looks better IMO than some of the popular stocks. Might not be the right choice for extensive combat drills, but handy for on-call HD, and ban states.
The posts about this device are some of the most disappointing I have read on this forum. First there are the naysayers who mock while never having seen, much less evaluated it's usefulness, I can only observe that many of you are the same high-count posters who rightfully castigate others for giving an opinion without personal experience. If it serves it's purpose well is it really mall ninja? What better tool is available for those who would prefer to maintain a low profile and choose not to wait 6-10 months for the government granted "priviledge" of having a usable short AR?
Second are the number of members whose judgement I usually trust who are against it because they don't want to rile the grabbers. Don't push the envelope or "they" might come down on us and restrict our rights even more. I understand that strategy, but believe it just plays into the hands of the incrementalists. I hope Sig sells a million of these and we see many positive stories of their use. Could be some much needed good PR for second amendment support amongst the non-shooting public.
Yeah, I'm not sure why there is so much hate for this device. Maybe people that paid the extortion fees to the government are now jealous, "No fair! I paid for my right to have a shorty"
very awesome!! I might have to scoop one up.
Headcase650
03-06-14, 02:06
This makes me want to build a pistol and also proves how F-tarded the SBR law and requirements are. There's already pistol tubes made specifically for this thing. Next product on the market for this will be 1/2 inch wide rings that slide over the pistol tube so you can adjust the length of pull on the "arm brace". I handled one at the last gun show and figure its stiff enough that the tube should only need to be inserted 2/3's of the way into the brace for it to still be solid.
Now whos gonna steal my idea and have the spacers on the market first...you know for those guys with longer fore arms.
Have one, use it, love.
I live in a non NFA state for one, and secondly living in new england our states are tiny. I often shoot out of state, this allows me to take it with with with out the permission of the ATF.
Also since its still a pistol it can be concealed carried, or more practically you and role around with it loaded at the ready in your car.
ForTehNguyen
04-08-14, 17:33
for those non believers out there. A CO police department sent in a letter to ATF and ATF again reiterated that shouldering the brace does not magically change it into an SBR thus would not violate NFA
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/03/arm-braces-pistols-legal-fired-shoudler/
Ordered my brace and 11.5" lightweight with 10" KMR, should arrive here by friday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMLO18kl98
^ Very informative video by MAC.
Gonna have to pick one up for my ARP..
medicman29
04-11-14, 20:33
I'm in the process of assembling a pistol, and this brace is absolutely mandatory equipment. I found it on amazon for 125.00 IIRC. Anyone found it cheaper?
ForTehNguyen
04-11-14, 20:35
SB-15 brace and BCM 11.5" lightweight with 10" KMR pistol upper came in. 5.93# without eotech
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/20140411_202921_zpsplunwzk8.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/20140411_203016_zps0gefeylf.jpg
Verification is also here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FScx4C7umM
SB-15 brace and BCM 11.5" lightweight with 10" KMR pistol upper came in. 5.93# without eotech
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/20140411_202921_zpsplunwzk8.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/20140411_203016_zps0gefeylf.jpg
What's your OAL?
Sold me on building a pistol over the SBR I been on the fence about since it can be loaded in my vehicle legally under state law. No loaded rifles or state law. I can also take it across state lines to my cabin which I couldn't do with an SBR. Got mine last week and I'm not disappointed in the quality of it.
It looks like Sig has changed the design of the SB15. The new design is the SBX. This site says Sig has said that all the SB15s should be gone by September. If you like the old design better get it while you can.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/5610049153
MSparks909
04-30-14, 09:42
Wonder what the weight of the new brace is vs. that of the old brace (16 oz.). I like the looks of the original better, but if the new one is lighter, and it looks like it should be, I may opt for that one on my 300 BLK pistol build.
The weight turned me off so I went with the Thorsden Custom Extension Cover with a CAA Saddle. Lighter and cost me much less. Just another option for some
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/a996hawk/2014-04-22113742_zps59d49330.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/a996hawk/media/2014-04-22113742_zps59d49330.jpg.html)
Just did my first pistol. I used the Phase 5 pistol receiver extension, the SB15 is tight, TIGHT, no rattle for sure. The SB15 seems well thought out and well made, seems durable. The 11.5 BCM shoots like a dream, of course. I am shocked with how accurate and quick this little thing is. http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0072-2.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0072-2.jpg.html)
Just did my first pistol. I used the Phase 5 pistol receiver extension, the SB15 is tight, TIGHT, no rattle for sure. The SB15 seems well thought out and well made, seems durable. The 11.5 BCM shoots like a dream, of course. I am shocked with how accurate and quick this little thing is. http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0072-2.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0072-2.jpg.html)
Was it a pain to get it on? Also, did you take the padding off the phase 5 to put it on? Been contemplating this for a while
glock21xxx
05-18-14, 14:11
Looks like someone decide to test what ALL of us were thinking when we saw this thing.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/18/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-review/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IMG_1505.jpg
Not to be a dick, but I thought that the VFG was a no-go on ar pistolas
Was it a pain to get it on? Also, did you take the padding off the phase 5 to put it on? Been contemplating this for a while
Yes to both of those questions, even with the padding off mine required some KY to get on far enough for my liking.
glock21xxx
05-18-14, 14:22
:stop::blink::blink::blink:
Yes to both of those questions, even with the padding off mine required some KY to get on far enough for my liking.
:blink:
Shoulderthinggoesup
05-18-14, 14:53
If I am not mistaken they used an sbr lower for that review
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
My fake sbr using the AK counterpart of this brace.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PRl9txR66x0/U350PmW-KhI/AAAAAAAAgCc/7-OIQidLgd8/w1579-h889-no/IMG_20140522_170322579.jpg
Not to be a dick, but I thought that the VFG was a no-go on ar pistolas
If OAL is 26"+ then you're good. Different buffer tubes can make a significant difference in length. For example the KAK Sig tube with a 10.5" barrel is supposed to break 26". Who know what else is out there, what is permanently mounted, etc.
skywalkrNCSU
05-27-14, 19:42
If OAL is 26"+ then you're good. Different buffer tubes can make a significant difference in length. For example the KAK Sig tube with a 10.5" barrel is supposed to break 26". Who know what else is out there, what is permanently mounted, etc.
Is that state specific? I have a feeling my build is going to be 26"+ because I will have a KAK tube and a pig on the other end but I would want to have some documentation with me in case I need to explain myself.
Headcase650
05-28-14, 01:09
NFA says 26" or more is a rifearm and not a pistol. The pig wont count in OAL unless its welded.
Is that state specific? I have a feeling my build is going to be 26"+ because I will have a KAK tube and a pig on the other end but I would want to have some documentation with me in case I need to explain myself.
I have a 10.5" AR Pistol that is just over 26" OAL with an A2 flash hider. IIRC the muzzle device needs to be permanently attached for it to count on the OAL. I have not measured it without the A2, but it might be a tad under 26" without it.
Total OAL is measured from the rear of the rifle to the end of the barrel only, not counting the muzzle device unless its permanently attached.
Go to the ATF website and you'll find the documentation on AR Pistols
Random question - does the SB15 stay on the receiver extension by friction alone? Is that enough to make it worth ("improperly") using it as a stock?
Random question - does the SB15 stay on the receiver extension by friction alone? Is that enough to make it worth ("improperly") using it as a stock?
Yes.
I had to use electrical tape on my KAK tube to get a tight enough fit.
Random question - does the SB15 stay on the receiver extension by friction alone? Is that enough to make it worth ("improperly") using it as a stock?
Depends on the buffer tube. I used the pistol buffer tube from Model I Sales, and the fit is very tight. Not tight enough that I had to use lube to get it on, but tight enough that it took some effort to get it on, and it doesn't move at all during shooting activities
Headcase650
05-28-14, 12:36
Next question, does the SB15 count in OAL if using spacers on the KAK tube and letting the brace hang off the back of the tube?
Next question, does the SB15 count in OAL if using spacers on the KAK tube and letting the brace hang off the back of the tube?
In the letter below, the ATF clarifies how to determine the overall length of a weapon. From the letter it seems like you measure from the end of the stock (which I believe would include the Sig Brace, but IANAL). This is an abbreviation of what it says:
- Remove non permanently attached muzzle device
- Extend or fold out the shoulder stock to it's extreme length
- The overall length of the firearm can be measured from the muzzle mark to the extreme rearward point of the firearm.
So it seems like you can measure from the extreme rearward point to the tip of the muzzle, without counting the length of the muzzle device unless it's pinned/welded.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=explorer&srcid=0B0qyloA48O3XOWQ3NDc2NmItOWVlZi00NjEzLTlhMzYtZTgxM2FiNzBkMGU3
If you are using the brace on a pistol, then OAL shouldn't matter.
steyrman13
05-28-14, 14:01
Lots of wrong info in this thread. A pistol can Never have a second vertical grip otherwise it is no longer a pistol. ARs are specified to need a barrel length minimum on top of the 26" oal other wise there wouldn't be a need to pin a 14.5" barrel because you could go down to a 11.5" barrel and still meet the 26" oal. Also the sig brace is NOT a stock so you can't measure from the rear of the STOCK to the end of barrel because again it is not a stock
Lots of wrong info in this thread. A pistol can Never have a second vertical grip otherwise it is no longer a pistol. ARs are specified to need a barrel length minimum on top of the 26" oal other wise there wouldn't be a need to pin a 14.5" barrel because you could go down to a 11.5" barrel and still meet the 26" oal. Also the sig brace is NOT a stock so you can't measure from the rear of the STOCK to the end of barrel because again it is not a stock
While true that a pistol can never have a second vertical grip, you can have a stock-less firearm with barrel length less than 16" and a second vertical grip if the overall length is greater than 26" without any NFA considerations. Such a firearm is not a pistol anymore, but it is also not a rifle. It's simply a "firearm." If such a firearm were less than 26" OAL, it would be an AOW.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
steyrman13
05-28-14, 15:24
While true that a pistol can never have a second vertical grip, you can have a stock-less firearm with barrel length less than 16" and a second vertical grip if the overall length is greater than 26" without any NFA considerations. Such a firearm is not a pistol anymore, but it is also not a rifle. It's simply a "firearm." If such a firearm were less than 26" OAL, it would be an AOW.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
For some reason I was thinking the Franklin Armory deal had a rescinded decision.
SpyderMan2k4
05-28-14, 16:50
One of the major draws of the AR15 pistol with the arm brace (to me) is the ability to keep is as a trunk gun and legally keep it loaded. Does that ability disappear when it becomes a "firearm" opposed to a "pistol"?
One of the major draws of the AR15 pistol with the arm brace (to me) is the ability to keep is as a trunk gun and legally keep it loaded. Does that ability disappear when it becomes a "firearm" opposed to a "pistol"?
Depends on the state.
In my state I can keep a loaded rifle or pistol in my car as long as its concealed and encased.
HighDesert
05-28-14, 21:27
Absolutely love the Sig brace!!!
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/20140227_151345_zpsryoohjww.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/harry1922/media/20140227_151345_zpsryoohjww.jpg.html)
Has anyone been questioned or bothered when using one of these at a public range?
Has anyone been questioned or bothered when using one of these at a public range?
Not yet!
Leaveammoforme
05-29-14, 17:17
Not yet!
So you see a possible issue/confrontation being made in the future?
So you see a possible issue/confrontation being made in the future?
A 'possible issue/confrontation' at a public range can include any manner of things (choice of caliber, rapid fire, drawing from holster, -the list is rather eternal). If some RO wants to whine about the Sig brace, it would not surprise me but that's hardly a reason to avoid getting one.
(disclaimer: I paid the $200 tax/waited the 90 days/got the stamp years ago for an SBR lower but am not sure why some have their panties in a knot against these Sig things - they save a lot of time/money)
Leaveammoforme
05-29-14, 21:06
A 'possible issue/confrontation' at a public range can include any manner of things (choice of caliber, rapid fire, drawing from holster, -the list is rather eternal). If some RO wants to whine about the Sig brace, it would not surprise me but that's hardly a reason to avoid getting one.
(disclaimer: I paid the $200 tax/waited the 90 days/got the stamp years ago for an SBR lower but am not sure why some have their panties in a knot against these Sig things - they save a lot of time/money)
Nah, just curious. How he put an exclamation mark after 'not yet' made me think he was happy that he had not had an issue or was looking forward to a possible one.
jonbondave
05-30-14, 13:36
I don't go to a range per se. But I do worry about an over zealous LEO arresting me if they were to see the gun. Of course, I worry about over zealous LEO's when i concealed carry as well. I had a county sherriff's deputy tell me one time that he doesn't mind me concealed carrying as long as i don't mind sitting on the curb in hand cuffs for an hour.
I don't go to a range per se. But I do worry about an over zealous LEO arresting me if they were to see the gun. Of course, I worry about over zealous LEO's when i concealed carry as well. I had a county sherriff's deputy tell me one time that he doesn't mind me concealed carrying as long as i don't mind sitting on the curb in hand cuffs for an hour.
I showed mine to a LEO the other day and all he had to say was "that is cool". That being said, the leo is also dating my aunt so that does make a difference.
Next question, does the SB15 count in OAL if using spacers on the KAK tube and letting the brace hang off the back of the tube?
No, you would only measure to the end of the fixed tube, not the removable arm brace.
I like my sig brace pistol also. A wonderful option to have available.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v158/p516974730-5.jpg
Absolutely love the Sig brace!!!
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/harry1922/20140227_151345_zpsryoohjww.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/harry1922/media/20140227_151345_zpsryoohjww.jpg.html)
I handled and fired one of these setups for the first time the other day while out shooting. Are you "absolutely loving" the Sig Brace or the ability it offers to run a shorty upper? This was my first experience shooting a short barreled upper with or without the Sig Brace.
Eurodriver
06-02-14, 12:43
Has anyone been questioned or bothered when using one of these at a public range?
I don't see how. I have two SBRs and I've yet to be hassled.
I still can't believe these are legal (but glad they are)
Headcase650
06-02-14, 14:21
I still can't believe these are legal (but glad they are)[/QUOTE]
Or rather...I cant believe that SBR's and suppressors still require a stamp.
I showed mine to a LEO the other day and all he had to say was "that is cool". That being said, the leo is also dating my aunt so that does make a difference.
I'd bet most including experienced RO's still have little idea what they are or what their purpose is let alone the technical implications to law good or bad.
jonbondave
06-02-14, 15:50
I'd bet most including experienced RO's still have little idea what they are or what their purpose is let alone the technical implications to law good or bad.
Exactly. SBR's are still illegal in Washington state for 10 more days I believe. Most cops have little interest in enforcing federal law unless it bisects with a state law... Which here it does. So that's why I worry that one could get a little hyper in the diaper over the TAC brace.
Love my brace. I have no problem shooting it at the ranges I go to.
s1321.photobucket.com/user/doro19/media/IMG_1270_zps2c8a688f.jpg.html]http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u543/doro19/IMG_1270_zps2c8a688f.jpg[/URL]
Well, I like the brace so much that I wasn't satisfied with an M85NP and AR15, so here is my M92.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XfTYgxskYkY/U45frE4IogI/AAAAAAAAgKQ/XggXpJuFdNs/w880/2014-06-03
Chrisreedrules
06-08-14, 16:31
Love my brace!
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x86/chrisdamage666/image_zps59681037.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/chrisdamage666/media/image_zps59681037.jpg.html)
DD Mk18 upper Noveske lower cerakoted in MagPul FDE
Sig Arm Brace FDE on a Phase5 pistol tube
AimPoint T1 on a LaRue LT660 QD mount
Troy Flip-up sights FDE
Giessele Super Dynamic 3 Gun Trigger
BCM ambi charging handle
Knights Armament ambi-safety/slelector
MagPul AFG and MIAD grip cerakoted in brown to match the DD upper
Noveske Single-point sling mount
My how the attitudes have changed since page 1 of this thread. I have an SBR, but now I am building my first pistol with the SB 15. I would have never gone the SBR route if this "brace" were available back then.
jonbondave
06-13-14, 16:33
I'm still debating it. Still some consternation about whether or not a form 4 will be accepted in WA.
I'm still debating it. Still some consternation about whether or not a form 4 will be accepted in WA.
Debating what, SB 15 brace or SBR process? Brace all the way for me from now on. No tax stamps, long delays, or worries about hard to replace and sell SBR lowers is a huge plus.
Emtothedee
06-16-14, 11:20
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg607/emtothedee/null_zps5816a718.jpg (http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/emtothedee/media/null_zps5816a718.jpg.html)
Voodoo_Man
06-16-14, 15:23
http://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2.html
phase 5 hex pistol buffer tube
looks interesting.
http://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2.html
phase 5 hex pistol buffer tube
looks interesting.
This looks way too long for me. I run either 1 click out or zero clicks.
Voodoo_Man
06-16-14, 18:17
This looks way too long for me. I run either 1 click out or zero clicks.
I run all the way out, like I would a normal rifle.
http://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2.html
phase 5 hex pistol buffer tube
looks interesting.
Interesting indeed. Seems they tried to match some of the contours of the Brace.
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 01:05
I absolutely love the SB15http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/17/8amy6ete.jpg
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
I like the SB15 and have one on a 5.56 pistol. I have another SB15 for a 6.8 build bit haven't decided on a KAK extended tube or that Phase 5. I really like the looks of the Phase 5.
Headcase650
06-17-14, 13:46
Can someone tell me the distance from the end plate to the end of the KAK tube? Trying to figure out if I need the spacers.
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 13:52
I have the phase 5....too short for me since I'm 6'3". Bought the KAK and it's way better. It adds about an inch and one half or so for better shoulder hold. Also, have the 1/2" spacer on it. Make sure you get the other sheet from feds regarding shouldering it being LEGAL.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop
06-17-14, 16:11
I have the phase 5....too short for me since I'm 6'3". Bought the KAK and it's way better. It adds about an inch and one half or so for better shoulder hold. Also, have the 1/2" spacer on it. Make sure you get the other sheet from feds regarding shouldering it being LEGAL.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Can you give a link to the exact parts you found to work?
Can you give a link to the exact parts you found to work?
Sounds like he is talking about this.
http://www.kakindustry.com/sig-super-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube
plus
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/sig-lak
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 16:30
http://www.kakindustry.com
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 16:32
KAK makes the best buffer tube (super Sig tube) by far for the sb15, they also sell the sb and their pricing is competitive too. You'll notice that on my pistol I'm using the half inch spacer.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop,
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-lak
These are the spacers he was talking about.
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-super-package-fde
Here's a kit that comes with the KAK tube setup, SB15 brace, and the spacers.
Can anyone post the LOP with the SB 15 pushed all the way to the stop on the KAK pistol tube?
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 18:03
Truly depends on your actual forearm length.....of your arm not forearm lol
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
KITTEN_FRENZY
06-17-14, 19:02
Can anyone post the LOP with the SB 15 pushed all the way to the stop on the KAK pistol tube?
8 7/16" from the rear of the endplate.
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 19:08
Geez no sense of humor here?
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
8 7/16" from the rear of the endplate.
Length of pull. You know, from the face of the trigger to the end of the stock... er I mean brace.
KITTEN_FRENZY
06-17-14, 19:21
Length of pull. You know, from the face of the trigger to the end of the stock... er I mean brace.
Just add like 3.25", silly goose.
Failure2Stop
06-17-14, 19:50
Sounds like he is talking about this.
http://www.kakindustry.com/sig-super-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube
plus
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/sig-lak
Thanks, order submitted.
Thanks to the other replies as well, mobile interface sucks at multi quote.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Voodoo_Man
06-17-14, 20:11
Thanks, order submitted.
Thanks to the other replies as well, mobile interface sucks at multi quote.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
What's the build? I am sure it'll be interesting!
Failure2Stop
06-17-14, 20:15
What's the build? I am sure it'll be interesting!
11.5 5.56 and a 9.5 .300 Blk, probably with a Law folding stock adaptor.
The convenience of interstate travel, depending on how it turns out, is the prime motivator.
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Voodoo_Man
06-17-14, 20:53
11.5 5.56 and a 9.5 .300 Blk, probably with a Law folding stock adaptor.
The convenience of interstate travel, depending on how it turns out, is the prime motivator.
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Dat 300!
I want to, but there are just so many things stopping me from doing it.
5.56 just seems like the way to go with this type of setup.
When you get it together post some pix.
AntiScreed
06-17-14, 21:02
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/18/ady5u5uq.jpg
7.5" gen 2 GSE upper with reversed fake can and Samson 7" EX. KAK tube + SB15
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NCPatrolAR
06-17-14, 21:08
Need to order a handguard and a KAK tube w/ spacers and I'll be rocking a pistol myself
SeriousStudent
06-17-14, 21:22
11.5 5.56 and a 9.5 .300 Blk, probably with a Law folding stock adaptor.
The convenience of interstate travel, depending on how it turns out, is the prime motivator.
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Jack, do you mind if I ask you a question?
Was there a specific reason you went with 9.5 inches on the 300 Blackout barrel? Was it ballistics or just because that was what you had? I have been debating the same sort of folding traveler build, but had considered one of the Noveske 8.2" barrels.
http://www.shopnoveske.com/products/300-aac-blackout-barrel
Thanks very much.
Failure2Stop
06-17-14, 21:27
Jack, do you mind if I ask you a question?
Was there a specific reason you went with 9.5 inches on the 300 Blackout barrel? Was it ballistics or just because that was what you had? I have been debating the same sort of folding traveler build, but had considered one of the Noveske 8.2" barrels.
http://www.shopnoveske.com/products/300-aac-blackout-barrel
Thanks very much.
Because, to me, that's the point at which .300 becomes superior to 5.56.
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SeriousStudent
06-17-14, 22:06
Cool, thank you very much for the reply.
MSparks909
06-17-14, 23:29
Anyone running a 11.5" BCM with the 10" KMR with the Sig brace? If so, could you tell me how the "pistol" balances? How does it handle snapping onto targets and in transitions? Unsure of how it will feel with a very light rail and a 16oz. brace.
Just drank some of the SB cool-aid. I got a chance to shoot buddies last week and was impressed for what it was. Already have a SBR'd lower and that spare semi-stripped lower plus pistol tube from SBR wait, all just sitting there... Well that's how I justified it to myself:D
And since I ordered from Joebobs I got free shipping and free JB T-shirt for daughter... Further justifications.
Voodoo_Man
06-18-14, 05:25
Was there a specific reason you went with 9.5 inches on the 300 Blackout barrel? Was it ballistics or just because that was what you had? I have been debating the same sort of folding traveler build, but had considered one of the Noveske 8.2" barrels.
http://www.shopnoveske.com/products/300-aac-blackout-barrel
If you are going to go short barrel, might as well get the 7.5 inch diplomat noveske offers - that's the direction I am looking to go - there are other options out there however.
Failure2Stop
06-18-14, 07:18
If you are going to go short barrel, might as well get the 7.5 inch diplomat noveske offers - that's the direction I am looking to go - there are other options out there however.
To me, they're too short to be fun to shoot, but if you want small, they're definitely that.
SeriousStudent
06-18-14, 20:46
If you are going to go short barrel, might as well get the 7.5 inch diplomat noveske offers - that's the direction I am looking to go - there are other options out there however.
I was honestly thinking that the 7.5" 5.56 barrel would just be too finicky, compared to the 8.2" 300 barrel. Plus all the blast, like Jack mentioned.
But I'm also debating just buying a 6933 upper, and being done with it. I would not have any problems reusing that or reselling it.
Shooterman017
06-18-14, 23:52
Went full retard, ordered a Spikes complete Pistol lower, an SB15, topped with a Bravo Company 11.5" complete upper with KMR10, BCM BCG...borrowed a Primary Arms Microdot, MBUS front/rear from a .22 rifle which I struggle to find ammo for, and a TLR1 light from the parts bin.
I'm now too broke for a charging handle and BCM Gunfighter Comp, which I am itching to try, or maybe a Precision Armament AFAB...but, all indicators point to "Money well spent."
The weight of this pistol is comical to me almost. I love it.
AntiScreed
06-18-14, 23:53
Lol shooterman
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Voodoo_Man
06-19-14, 05:26
Went full retard, ordered a Spikes complete Pistol lower, an SB15, topped with a Bravo Company 11.5" complete upper with KMR10, BCM BCG...borrowed a Primary Arms Microdot, MBUS front/rear from a .22 rifle which I struggle to find ammo for, and a TLR1 light from the parts bin.
I'm now too broke for a charging handle and BCM Gunfighter Comp, which I am itching to try, or maybe a Precision Armament AFAB...but, all indicators point to "Money well spent."
The weight of this pistol is comical to me almost. I love it.
Rifle building will make you go broke faster than anything else, that is for sure.
You must not have a woman in the house then.....LOL
All jokes aside, I know what you mean.
Rifle building will make you go broke faster than anything else, that is for sure.
Voodoo_Man
06-19-14, 05:54
You must not have a woman in the house then.....LOL
All jokes aside, I know what you mean.
You must not have a good woman in your house.
I kid, I kid ;)
She is, she just likes to buy everything under the sun for our 7mo old son. I guess things could be worse, she could be buying shoes for herself or something. :rolleyes:
You must not have a good woman in your house.
I kid, I kid ;)
Anyone running a 11.5" BCM with the 10" KMR with the Sig brace? If so, could you tell me how the "pistol" balances? How does it handle snapping onto targets and in transitions? Unsure of how it will feel with a very light rail and a 16oz. brace.
Feels great to me, but I love guns that are nose light. The brace actually adds some heft, so mine balances to the rear compared to my 16" LW with 13" KMR.
MSparks909
06-19-14, 11:10
Went full retard, ordered a Spikes complete Pistol lower, an SB15, topped with a Bravo Company 11.5" complete upper with KMR10, BCM BCG...borrowed a Primary Arms Microdot, MBUS front/rear from a .22 rifle which I struggle to find ammo for, and a TLR1 light from the parts bin.
I'm now too broke for a charging handle and BCM Gunfighter Comp, which I am itching to try, or maybe a Precision Armament AFAB...but, all indicators point to "Money well spent."
The weight of this pistol is comical to me almost. I love it.
Would you happen to have any pics of this setup? Sounds like a squared away build!
Shooterman017
06-19-14, 14:58
Would you happen to have any pics of this setup? Sounds like a squared away build!
I'll certainly pull some together for the sake of the thread and inquiring minds.
Feels great to me, but I love guns that are nose light. The brace actually adds some heft, so mine balances to the rear compared to my 16" LW with 13" KMR.
I will echo his sentiments...nose light and balances aft of the magwell. I will reserve any more input until after I get some trigger time on it...vacation is anon, so then for sure.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3YEhWKTLzio/U6NWVYPeunI/AAAAAAAAgvU/CilpbIrRCWE/w1579-h889-no/IMG_20140619_162918344.jpg
-Spare $80 lower that was in my safe
-ALG Trigger
-CMMG LPK
-Spike's T2 buffer, spring, tube
-Magpul K2 grip with ATF letter inside a ziplock
-BCM KMR 10
-BCM 11.5" LW
-SB15
-MBUS
-Aimpoint Micro H1
-BCM Gunfighter CH
-Some end plate with sling loop, I bent it up to stop the brace where I like and for attaching my HK hook
-KIES Blast Master for sending the blast downrange
-BAD lever
Voodoo_Man
06-19-14, 17:03
what kind of bcg?
what kind of bcg?
WMD, I wanted to try out the NiB craze for myself. These are manufactured smaller to take into account the extra material added by NiB. I haven't had it lock in battery on me yet.
Voodoo_Man
06-19-14, 20:40
http://i.imgur.com/shVgTSe.jpg
Shooterman017
06-20-14, 09:46
First impressions on the SB15:
-feels fine on the shoulder to me
-looks fine (excellent even compared to the SBX brace....)
-balances slightly aft of the magwell, but not to such a point where I find it awkward
Any aesthetic shortcomings I may have preconceived (unfairly; don't knock it til you try it) have been completely and holistically tossed out the window and trumped by the fact that in one week's time I went from no pistol to 11.5" pistol that shoulders and handles for the most part like an SBR. My experience with anything SBR draws from limited exposure/trigger time to a MK18 MOD1 and a 12.5" CMMG build.
First impressions on the BCM KMR/Keymod:
-BCM and KMR is obviously tits.
-Trial Size Slip 2K, 5 posters, stickers galore and a sweet hat.
/discussion
Really though, the KMR is sweet. I thought about an AFG for this pistol but as soon as I picked the assembled weapon up I said no way, it's staying this light. Borrowed CH for the sake of the picture. Using a KAC Rail Panel on the 12oclock wedged between the front MBUS and a ladder rail section to keep it secured. Not sure I like said panel on the KMR given its relatively large size. TLR1 on the 5oclock, easy to reach. Tried it in front of the MBUS, I'm liking 5oclock more.
Things to add/change:
-Magpul MOE K2
-KAC Keymod Handstop and grip panels
-Geissele SD-C
-BCM Gunfighter MOD0 or Precision Armament AFAB
-maybe a KAC Thumb Rest for the 12oclock...jury is still out on what will go up there
26690
AntiScreed
06-20-14, 15:38
Now for the firing report.....
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Now for the firing report.....
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I posted a picture of mine up in the thread a page or two. Below is my 100 yard irons sight in target. Considering my eyes can barely make out the target at 100 yards, using irons, I was quite pleased with this result. Most of the shots to the right are me walking the irons into the black.
ETA: I failed to mention that it functioned flawlessly over the 50 rounds of hand loads I put through it during this range session. Muzzle blast with the A2 was tolerable but it was definitely more than a 16" equivalent.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v149/p625734175-5.jpg
I've been watching this thread, and now have plans for an 11.5" bcm pistol.
AntiScreed
06-21-14, 18:32
Quite good actually. No one can claim ar15 pistols are crap to me any longer since I have one now and know better.
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evilblackrifle
06-24-14, 07:16
I was honestly thinking that the 7.5" 5.56 barrel would just be too finicky, compared to the 8.2" 300 barrel. Plus all the blast, like Jack mentioned.Have you shot a 7.5" 5.56 barrel with a muzzle device that directs the blast forward? I have and firsthand experience tells me the general disdain for this setup on this forum is unwarranted.
I get the velocity argument but noise, blast and reliability are not problems with a good setup.
I've been watching this thread, and now have plans for an 11.5" bcm pistol.
Same same. I can't find any reason not to have one. Thanks for the accuracy report, they have been hard to come by on this board.
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Have you shot a 7.5" 5.56 barrel with a muzzle device that directs the blast forward? I have and firsthand experience tells me the general disdain for this setup on this forum is unwarranted.
I get the velocity argument but noise, blast and reliability are not problems with a good setup.
Totally agree, well said. [emoji106]
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AntiScreed
06-24-14, 12:25
True.
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Update on the SBX Brace and the MPX pistol
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/06/24/sig-sauer-adds-sb-x-to-pistol-stabilizing-brace-lineup/?repeat=w3tc
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/20140624-133338-48818020.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/20140624-133338-48818020.jpg.html)
SeriousStudent
06-24-14, 20:07
Have you shot a 7.5" 5.56 barrel with a muzzle device that directs the blast forward? I have and firsthand experience tells me the general disdain for this setup on this forum is unwarranted.
I get the velocity argument but noise, blast and reliability are not problems with a good setup.
Nope, sure haven't. I have shot a Noveske Firepig on a 10.5" barrel, but not a 7.5" I've never seen one anywhere that I could actually shoot one, or any other brake/muzzle device/etc.
I think I have found a good deal on a Colt 6933 upper from a buddy. Who owes me money. Which he has not repaid me. So that little problem may just be solving itself. :cool:
Have you shot a 7.5" 5.56 barrel with a muzzle device that directs the blast forward? I have and firsthand experience tells me the general disdain for this setup on this forum is unwarranted.
I get the velocity argument but noise, blast and reliability are not problems with a good setup.
A 7.5 with a kx3 is indeed decent enough to be around. But the kx3 is so long and heavy, adding 2.3", why not just run a 10.5"? You gain an inch or so for better ballistics and you can mount a silencer.
AntiScreed
06-24-14, 21:04
How far would you expect to shoot an AR pistol in the first place? Mine is strictly as a PDW and rocks it hard within 200-300 yards. And it's 7.5"
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KIES Blast Master gives you noveske benefits without the high weight.
I'm going to be purchasing one of these braces for a build. I typically run my carbine stock one click in from fully extended. With that in mind, can someone point me to what buffer tube will be best? From the info in this thread, it doesn't seem that this brace will fit on a standard carbine tube?
alienb1212
06-25-14, 05:59
I'm going to be purchasing one of these braces for a build. I typically run my carbine stock one click in from fully extended. With that in mind, can someone point me to what buffer tube will be best? From the info in this thread, it doesn't seem that this brace will fit on a standard carbine tube?
HIGHLY suggest you do some more reading and research, sir. You cannot legally put a carbine buffer tube on a "pistol".
These have special "slick" tubes with no provision for mounting a regular buttstock on it. (I.E. the six-hole bump on the bottom)
Be VERY careful when dealing with AR pistols...you don't want to be accidentally making an unregistered SBR or AOW.
I'm going to be purchasing one of these braces for a build. I typically run my carbine stock one click in from fully extended. With that in mind, can someone point me to what buffer tube will be best? From the info in this thread, it doesn't seem that this brace will fit on a standard carbine tube?
try looking here to start:
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-super-package-black
there are stackable spacers in 1" and 1/2" to move the brace back.
And if you read what I'm asking, you'll realize that I'm doing exactly that. I never asked what CARBINE tube to use. I asked what buffer tube would be best for a longer LOP.
Also, since this build will be longer than 26" OAL it won't classify as a pistol, and since it has no buttstock, it won't be an SBR.
HIGHLY suggest you do some more reading and research, sir. You cannot legally put a carbine buffer tube on a "pistol".
These have special "slick" tubes with no provision for mounting a regular buttstock on it. (I.E. the six-hole bump on the bottom)
Be VERY careful when dealing with AR pistols...you don't want to be accidentally making an unregistered SBR or AOW.
HIGHLY suggest you do some more reading and research, sir. You cannot legally put a carbine buffer tube on a "pistol".
These have special "slick" tubes with no provision for mounting a regular buttstock on it. (I.E. the six-hole bump on the bottom)
Be VERY careful when dealing with AR pistols...you don't want to be accidentally making an unregistered SBR or AOW.
This information is totally wrong. You can use a standard carbine receiver extension on a pistol. In fact, the BATFE approved Thorsden "buffer tube cover" is made specifically for a carbine receiver extension on an AR pistol.
It is also legal to configure a legal pistol as a rifle by adding a rifle upper and butt stock. Having a regular receiver extension makes this a simple task.
http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM03ylbdwpo
http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.com/2675/atf_responce_letter.pdf
And if you read what I'm asking, you'll realize that I'm doing exactly that. I never asked what CARBINE tube to use. I asked what buffer tube would be best for a longer LOP.
Also, since this build will be longer than 26" OAL it won't classify as a pistol, and since it has no buttstock, it won't be an SBR.
It will still be a pisol unless you have a state restriction; there is no federal restriction on pistol barrel lengths. If you put a vertical grip on a pistol with an OAL > 26", it is then classified as a "firearm" (not an AOW or SBR) and is not subject to NFA.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
I'm going to be purchasing one of these braces for a build. I typically run my carbine stock one click in from fully extended. With that in mind, can someone point me to what buffer tube will be best? From the info in this thread, it doesn't seem that this brace will fit on a standard carbine tube?
The brace on my KAK tube full in is equal to second position out. See photo for comparison. The optional extension rings will allow additional one, two, or with both, three positions longer.
Note that the KAK tube OD is less than some others. Rings will not fit other tube pictured. Upside is brace is easier to twist on. A little baby powder helps.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-11.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-11.jpg.html)
The brace on my KAK tube full in is equal to second position out. See photo for comparison. The optional extension rings will allow additional one, two, or with both, three positions longer.
Note that the KAK tube OD is less than some others. Rings will not fit other tube pictured. Upside is brace is easier to twist on. A little baby powder helps.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-11.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-11.jpg.html)
The front of the brace is even with the front of the stock, but the back of the brace seems almost 1" short of the back of the stock. It looks like the small spacer would make them even.
I hadn't noticed that. So it is about first position as shown. Rings then would max out about fourth.
I hadn't noticed that. So it is about first position as shown. Rings then would max out about fourth.
Thanks, this info is helpful. I orederd the spacers beacuse the brace alone just looks to short for LOP to my liking. Can you measure from the face of the trigger to the back end of the brace and post the result?
From the front of the trigger (low point of curve) to back edge of brace is 11 7/8".
From the front of the trigger (low point of curve) to back edge of brace is 11 7/8".
Thanks. I have been looking for this info for a while and never got a straight answer.
Not the best pictures, I know. But first is comparison of Sig SB-15 on KAK gen 2 tube comparing to 6 pos mil spec tube with B5 stock, 1 position out from fully collapsed. length is almost identical.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc320/Markc1016/guns/c4ba1d9c-7a0f-4feb-82a1-d5b4f2719da9_zpscc1a9b00.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Markc1016/media/guns/c4ba1d9c-7a0f-4feb-82a1-d5b4f2719da9_zpscc1a9b00.jpg.html)
Second pic is comparison of Sig Sb-15 on KAK tube with B5 fully extended on milspec 6 position receiver extension. B5 runs about 2.5 inches longer without any spacers on the KAK/SB-15 combo.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc320/Markc1016/guns/43ad7e81-b7cd-4342-92f7-d6f38826ac1f_zps85d20abb.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Markc1016/media/guns/43ad7e81-b7cd-4342-92f7-d6f38826ac1f_zps85d20abb.jpg.html)
The KAK Pistol tube is nice, but IMO is not really necessary. You can use a standard Pistol receiver extension and wrap paracord on the bare tube. This is a good alternative if you want to save $. It also makes the brace stable so that it won't move during shooting, and allows a bit of customization with any paracord color you choose. I have a long LOP (about the 5th position) which is why the Brace is that far out, but you can put the brace to your own LOP and paracord accordingly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/eiji81/1%20AR15/DSCI0053.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/eiji81/media/1%20AR15/DSCI0053.jpg.html)
Just remember to only wrap the paracord once around the tube. If you do two layers of cord, you will not be able to pull the charging handle (ask me how I know).
Depends on the tube you are using. If it's a carbine tube, then in the above pic at last an inch plus of the brace has no tube to grab. The KAK tube goes full flush to the brace and adds stability IMHO.
Depends on the tube you are using. If it's a carbine tube, then in the above pic at last an inch plus of the brace has no tube to grab. The KAK tube goes full flush to the brace and adds stability IMHO.
Yes I understand that, but in my experience shooting with my setup its rock solid and doesn't move in any way. The Sigbrace itself is made of good solid material that it does not bend or flex even when not fully inserted all the way in.
Yes I understand that, but in my experience shooting with my setup its rock solid and doesn't move in any way. The Sigbrace itself is made of good solid material that it does not bend or flex even when not fully inserted all the way in.
Agree, the material is very solid and holds it form well.
Kalash9305
06-26-14, 23:39
I just finished assembling my KAK tube lower last night. I bought the one without the castle nut that screws into the receiver. Locked in very tight no play whatsoever. It has the wider shoulder extension which allows the brace to be positioned farther out. It is also form fitted so the brace slides on very snug. It was a bitch and a half to get it in place. I highly doubt it will be moving around inadvertently.
I just got a brand new BCM assembled lower from GnR yesterday as well and the brace position equated to about two clicks out on the M4 stock that came with the BCM, which is my preferred setup.
I paired all my uppers with both of them last night and could not tell a difference
The brace sets into the shoulder very well and actually felt a bit sturdier than the M4 BCM stock.
No shooting yet but my bet is it will hold up solid there as well.
Time for that 6933 upper I've always wanted ... ;)
Shockwave Technologies
07-07-14, 17:35
These SIG SB15 stabilizing braces are interesting--as are the ATF opinions. Is the new version of the SB15 available yet?
These SIG SB15 stabilizing braces are interesting--as are the ATF opinions. Is the new version of the SB15 available yet?
I do not think the new version is out yet. I only say this as I drive by Sig's pro shop/training center everyday on the way home from work. It has cost me alot of money... Anyways, I was just in there last week when I picked up my SB-15 and they had plenty of SB-15's but I did not see any of the new version. Either on the shelves or on any of the display firearms. I will check in there this week and see if I can get an eta.
I do not think the new version is out yet. I only say this as I drive by Sig's pro shop/training center everyday on the way home from work. It has cost me alot of money... Anyways, I was just in there last week when I picked up my SB-15 and they had plenty of SB-15's but I did not see any of the new version. Either on the shelves or on any of the display firearms. I will check in there this week and see if I can get an eta.
Thanks for checking [emoji106]
Details on new version?
Nevermind
http://www.shortbarrelshepherd.com/new-sig-sbx-brace-on-the-way/
The New version is ugly IMO. I'd speculate that it won't sell as well as the original. But that's just me
The New version is ugly IMO. I'd speculate that it won't sell as well as the original. But that's just me
I think it's designed for side folders like the MPX. When it's folded it won't interfere with holding it left handed.
Sig just sent an email.
SB15 for $124.95 and you get a 36 inch rifle bag.
Purchase our top selling pistol stabilizing brace for $124.95 and receive a FREE 36” rifle bag and FREE shipping.
SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace - MSRP $139.00. NOW: $124.95
SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace
MSRP $139.00
NOW: $124.95
SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace - MSRP $139.00. NOW: $124.95
Fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter
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Quick and easy to install
*ATF has reviewed this product and determined that attaching the SB15 to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to NFA control.
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Just by looks I would think the new version would be lighter than the original. Haven't some said it seems a bit heavy? Guess it may boil down to perspective?
I wonder what the legalities of combining an ace side folding buffer tube adapter and a SB47 (ak47 brace) together on a ak pistol would be.
Just by looks I would think the new version would be lighter than the original. Haven't some said it seems a bit heavy? Guess it may boil down to perspective?
I don't feel the SB15 is heavy. It feels just like a standard M4 stock.
I wonder what the legalities of combining an ace side folding buffer tube adapter and a SB47 (ak47 brace) together on a ak pistol would be.
If you're using the Ace folder adapter but with a pistol tube, you might want to use the SB15 instead of the SB47. I'm not even sure if the SB47 will work with a pistol RE because of the bottom adaptor piece on it that goes in between the AK grip may get in the way.
Although I'd be careful with this setup if you intend to do it. I think its doable (but then again I'm no lawyer), but I advice against it. In my mind, adding a side folding adapter on an AK pistol is basically putting yourself in a questionable situation that may get you in trouble.
I don't feel the SB15 is heavy. It feels just like a standard M4 stock.
If you're using the Ace folder adapter but with a pistol tube, you might want to use the SB15 instead of the SB47. I'm not even sure if the SB47 will work with a pistol RE because of the bottom adaptor piece on it that goes in between the AK grip may get in the way.
Although I'd be careful with this setup if you intend to do it. I think its doable (but then again I'm no lawyer), but I advice against it. In my mind, adding a side folding adapter on an AK pistol is basically putting yourself in a questionable situation that may get you in trouble.
Yep sorry it would be the sb15 not 47 on the folding buffer tube. I'm not looking to do it, just a random though of what it would be classified as.
I don't feel the SB15 is heavy. It feels just like a standard M4 stock.
If you're using the Ace folder adapter but with a pistol tube, you might want to use the SB15 instead of the SB47. I'm not even sure if the SB47 will work with a pistol RE because of the bottom adaptor piece on it that goes in between the AK grip may get in the way.
Although I'd be careful with this setup if you intend to do it. I think its doable (but then again I'm no lawyer), but I advice against it. In my mind, adding a side folding adapter on an AK pistol is basically putting yourself in a questionable situation that may get you in trouble.
27057
27057Nice (manly nod of approval).
Nice (manly nod of approval).
Yes very nice. Not mine unfortunately
27057
This. Lots of SB folders out there already. A stock piston pistol has no tube yet it is kosher to add one for the brace. I think folks are overthinking the issue. Folding w/brace is still a pistol.
27057
Looks cool, but that brace is huge in proportion to the MP5.
And thats not an AK pistol anyway.
This. Lots of SB folders out there already. A stock piston pistol has no tube yet it is kosher to add one for the brace. I think folks are overthinking the issue. Folding w/brace is still a pistol.
Exactly. A pistol brace that folds is still a pistol brace.
justin_247
07-21-14, 17:53
I handled one of the Sig P516s today, and I have to say that the arm brace is much better than I thought it would be. It's not overly huge, although it does seem a little larger than a normal stock. I was able to get a good cheek weld, too.
Stopped at Sig Pro shop on the way home. Asked the Sig dudes about the new model brace. They did not have any news on it. No release date or price. Oh well. They did get some BCM keymod rails in this week. Had to pick up a 10 inch for my pistol. Good god it is light.
Ok, so I have an SB15 on the way. I'm not sure what tube to get. On my carbines, I use a BCM milspec M4 stock/tube and I shoot it with the stock in the first "click" out from completely closed (or the last click from being all the way in...potato/potahto). Which tube will give me the same-ish LOP?
Ok, so I have an SB15 on the way. I'm not sure what tube to get. On my carbines, I use a BCM milspec M4 stock/tube and I shoot it with the stock in the first "click" out from completely closed (or the last click from being all the way in...potato/potahto). Which tube will give me the same-ish LOP?
See page 10 of this thread, bunch of pictures showing what you are asking. I showed a few pics of that comparison. The KAK super sig tube is about as close as you will get to "1" click out with a standard stock. In atleast it keeps the brace from colapsing any further then that length. You can also add spacers to "add" length of pull. With a standard pistol tube, the brace would walk in to totally collapsed on me. Very happy with the KAK tube. There is a relatively new Midwest industries tube out that may work similar. They make excellent products as well. But I haven't used theirs and can't comment. I have only used the KAK.
http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/pistol-buffer-tubes/sig-super-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube
You can get it with other possibly needed parts like back plate and castle nut, and buffers etc if you need them.
Second the KAK with no added spacers for first position LOP. Purt near identical.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-17.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-17.jpg.html)
Second the KAK with no added spacers for first position LOP. Purt near identical.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-17.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-17.jpg.html)
Agree...and when I put it to my cheek, it's just about exactly where I like it...
Second the KAK with no added spacers for first position LOP. Purt near identical.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-17.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-17.jpg.html)
Awesome! Thanks so much
Shooterman017
07-25-14, 21:05
First impressions on the SB15: Updated below...
Things to add/change: Updated below...
-Magpul MOE K2
-KAC Keymod Handstop and grip panels
-Geissele SD-C
-BCM Gunfighter MOD0 or Precision Armament AFAB
-maybe a KAC Thumb Rest for the 12oclock...jury is still out on what will go up there
200 rounds, a couple of range trips and one interstate road trip later, I really like this pistol.
-Still no dedicated CH because I'm a cheap ass and spent the moolah on more XM193 so I can actually shoot it, I'm not dual wielding this and my 16" rifle anyway.
-Shooting is a pleasant thing without a concussion device on the nose of it, I'll probably keep the A2 installed.
-Still needs a SD-C because I'm a snob for flat blades, and with my 1-4x Vortex Viper PST it shot pretty damn good for only 50gr "Varmint Tipped" American Eagle...that stuff is pretty accurate, so I find at least...I'll grab a picture from 100yds with it and post it tomorrow. Need to try with XM193 and XM855.
-Still going to get a MOE K2 or the like and some KAC Handstop love up front...keep the 12oclock rail clean with just a ladder rail cover...
Haven't put a drop of lubricant or the like on this gun yet either since unboxing the upper.
See you guys in another 400 rounds or so.
I posted a picture of mine up in the thread a page or two. Below is my 100 yard irons sight in target. Considering my eyes can barely make out the target at 100 yards, using irons, I was quite pleased with this result. Most of the shots to the right are me walking the irons into the black.
ETA: I failed to mention that it functioned flawlessly over the 50 rounds of hand loads I put through it during this range session. Muzzle blast with the A2 was tolerable but it was definitely more than a 16" equivalent.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v149/p625734175-5.jpg
just stalking your post HK :o
Second the KAK with no added spacers for first position LOP. Purt near identical.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-17.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-17.jpg.html)
subscribing for reference, for future build
Shooterman017
07-26-14, 13:21
...I'll grab a picture from 100yds with it and post it tomorrow. Need to try with XM193 and XM855.
A true cellular potato if ever one existed. 10 rounds, POA was the 2" sticky, prone with an ammo can for support and factory milspec trigger. Borrowed the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x MRAD and held on the dot, let the rounds fall where they were going to. BCM 11.5" (not lightweight profile) barreled upper.
27568
First impressions on the SB15:
-feels fine on the shoulder to me
-looks fine (excellent even compared to the SBX brace....)
-balances slightly aft of the magwell, but not to such a point where I find it awkward
Any aesthetic shortcomings I may have preconceived (unfairly; don't knock it til you try it) have been completely and holistically tossed out the window and trumped by the fact that in one week's time I went from no pistol to 11.5" pistol that shoulders and handles for the most part like an SBR. My experience with anything SBR draws from limited exposure/trigger time to a MK18 MOD1 and a 12.5" CMMG build.
First impressions on the BCM KMR/Keymod:
-BCM and KMR is obviously tits.
-Trial Size Slip 2K, 5 posters, stickers galore and a sweet hat.
/discussion
Really though, the KMR is sweet. I thought about an AFG for this pistol but as soon as I picked the assembled weapon up I said no way, it's staying this light. Borrowed CH for the sake of the picture. Using a KAC Rail Panel on the 12oclock wedged between the front MBUS and a ladder rail section to keep it secured. Not sure I like said panel on the KMR given its relatively large size. TLR1 on the 5oclock, easy to reach. Tried it in front of the MBUS, I'm liking 5oclock more.
Things to add/change:
-Magpul MOE K2
-KAC Keymod Handstop and grip panels
-Geissele SD-C
-BCM Gunfighter MOD0 or Precision Armament AFAB
-maybe a KAC Thumb Rest for the 12oclock...jury is still out on what will go up there
26690
I thought mid-life crisis only happens "once", but, hot damn I want one! :dirol:
bluejackets92fs
08-20-14, 15:06
Has anyone put the SB-15 on a Sig P556? I have tried locating a pistol receiver extension for the P556 but haven't been able to locate anything. Any insight?
I had the brace on the Sig without the LAW Gen3 folder. Any AR pistol tube will work. I prefer the KAK except with the the folder it makes the LOP too long.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-5.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-5.jpg.html)
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg4.jpg.html)
Voodoo_Man
08-20-14, 17:31
I had the brace on the Sig without the LAW Gen3 folder. Any AR pistol tube will work. I prefer the KAK except with the the folder it makes the LOP too long.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-5.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-5.jpg.html)
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg4.jpg.html)
That a 10" barrel?
Can you measure from barrel tip to end of law folder, while folded?
Yes, 10". From tip of Battlecomp to end of LAW is 21.5", OAL is 29" with brace in extended position. Legal length is approx. 27.25 since brace extends beyond the tube and non-pinned comp does not count towards length.
Voodoo_Man
08-20-14, 18:19
Yes, 10". From tip of Battlecomp to end of LAW is 21.5", OAL is 29" with brace in extended position. Legal length is approx. 27.25 since brace extends beyond the tube and non-pinned comp does not count towards length.
Thanks.
Sig just sent an email.
SB15 for $124.95 and you get a 36 inch rifle bag.
Purchase our top selling pistol stabilizing brace for $124.95 and receive a FREE 36” rifle bag and FREE shipping.
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MSRP $139.00
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Fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter
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Quick and easy to install
*ATF has reviewed this product and determined that attaching the SB15 to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to NFA control.
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SB15 Stabilizing Brace:
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a $129.00 value
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Does any body know if this deal is still going on?
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
Update on the SBX Brace and the MPX pistol
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/06/24/sig-sauer-adds-sb-x-to-pistol-stabilizing-brace-lineup/?repeat=w3tc
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/20140624-133338-48818020.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/20140624-133338-48818020.jpg.html)
Follow up.... is the updated version out yet?
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
It's listed on Sig's site.
https://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/sbx-pistol-stabilizing-brace-686.aspx
It makes version 1 look beautiful.
Has anyone ever glued the SB15 brace onto the buffer tube? Or "pinned" it somehow? Mine seems to be rotating slightly here and there. Not bad, but just enough over time to make me want to put a few dabs of rubber cement inside.
Anybody forsee any issues with doing that? I can't imagine how gluing it on would alter its intended function at all? The only issue I see is that it cant be slid in/out after Im done...that's why Im wondering if figuring out a way to "pin" it would be better, might be easier to remove if I want to replace the buffer tube for some reason...
Has anyone ever glued the SB15 brace onto the buffer tube? Or "pinned" it somehow? Mine seems to be rotating slightly here and there. Not bad, but just enough over time to make me want to put a few dabs of rubber cement inside.
Anybody forsee any issues with doing that? I can't imagine how gluing it on would alter its intended function at all? The only issue I see is that it cant be slid in/out after Im done...that's why Im wondering if figuring out a way to "pin" it would be better, might be easier to remove if I want to replace the buffer tube for some reason...
I haven't tried it myself, but the phase 5 hex receiver extension is suppose to lock it down. Just looking at it, it looks like the hex is flat on the bottom and the receiver end plate nub locks somewhat onto that.
https://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2.html
Took my pistol out for function test, see how this brace feels. It's great, no issues at all. I went through 250rds of Wolf and 250rds of PMC and the only issue was bolt failed to lock on last round with the wolf. H2 buffer is being used. No trigger pin movement with the TNA poly lower either. Big props to Jason at AndroCorp too, great price and build on his 11.5 upper. The brace had zero movement during DeFoors carbine test, using the KAK with extensions. I'm very pleased with this option thus far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How much does it weigh without rds? thanks.
I had the brace on the Sig without the LAW Gen3 folder. Any AR pistol tube will work. I prefer the KAK except with the the folder it makes the LOP too long.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg1-5.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg1-5.jpg.html)
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/uffdaphil/imagejpg4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/uffdaphil/media/imagejpg4.jpg.html)
jonbondave
09-02-14, 11:26
Has anyone ever glued the SB15 brace onto the buffer tube? Or "pinned" it somehow? Mine seems to be rotating slightly here and there. Not bad, but just enough over time to make me want to put a few dabs of rubber cement inside.
Anybody forsee any issues with doing that? I can't imagine how gluing it on would alter its intended function at all? The only issue I see is that it cant be slid in/out after Im done...that's why Im wondering if figuring out a way to "pin" it would be better, might be easier to remove if I want to replace the buffer tube for some reason...
Use hairspray. Works great. Good twist to break the seal in case you need it off.
Has anyone ever glued the SB15 brace onto the buffer tube? Or "pinned" it somehow? Mine seems to be rotating slightly here and there. Not bad, but just enough over time to make me want to put a few dabs of rubber cement inside.
Anybody forsee any issues with doing that? I can't imagine how gluing it on would alter its intended function at all? The only issue I see is that it cant be slid in/out after Im done...that's why Im wondering if figuring out a way to "pin" it would be better, might be easier to remove if I want to replace the buffer tube for some reason...
What diameter tube are you using? Just curious.
How much does it weigh without rds? thanks.
A svelte 8 lbs 13 oz with Aimpoint.
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