View Full Version : Paddle mag release lever (HK, PPQ style)
acaixguard
12-20-12, 20:31
For those of you who shoot a gun with the paddle style ambi mag release lever, such as the HK P30 and the Walther PPQ, what is your preferred method of releasing the mag. Trigger finger, middle finger, or thumb (if you have a long enough thumb)?
I find it faster with the trigger finger, it's already on the way out of the trigger on a reload and no grip shift is needed to hit the paddle as it exits. YMMV
After being issued a P2000 I have found that for me the middle finger gives me the most control over the weapon on reloads. I index my trigger finger along the side of the frame just like usual and my middle finger can release the magazine easily with out breaking my grip where I have to break my grip to use my trigger finger.
I use my middle finger.
I don't have to shift my grip, it feels more natural to me than using any other finger, and it ensures that my trigger finger is nowhere near the trigger.
Magic_Salad0892
12-20-12, 21:17
Strong hand - trigger finger.
If shooting weak hand - middle finger.
Middle finger. Index finger stays up in the ready position. Weapon feels more balanced in my hand with this method.
Trigger finger has always worked fine for me.
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Vegasshooter
12-20-12, 22:30
Trigger finger here, for the HK45 I carry on duty, it seems to be the fastest, safest, most efficient way. The HK family of pistols seems to be designed for this method.
Trigger finger..It's been my experience that those trying to use their thumb on the paddles, are usually just coming from American style button releases, and don't understand you're supposed to use your fingers. (either middle or trigger) Usually, once one learns the system, (and that's usually pretty quick) you'll find you don't want to go back to the release button..IMO, the release levers are waay better than a button...
DanjojoUSMC
12-20-12, 22:42
Trigger finger also. If you use your middle finger, you are disturbing your grip.
It's the trigger finger on my PPQ. One of the reasons I bought it. And I love the long slide release.
Strong hand trigger as well...more leverage and no need to rotate frame
Psalms144.1
12-21-12, 07:52
Trigger finger - that's how it's designed to work!
Trigger finger either hand. I find the paddle mag release system superior to the traditional thumb release.
I can use my index finger on my PPQ, but the PPS is too small in my hand to use the same technique. Decided to just standardize on using the middle finger for both. Grip is already disturbed by removing the support hand anyway, and this method actually does a better job of keeping the web of my hand as far up on the grip as possible. All personal preference, I suppose. Paddle over button any day.
I can use my index finger on my PPQ, but the PPS is too small in my hand to use the same technique. Decided to just standardize on using the middle finger for both. Grip is already disturbed by removing the support hand anyway, and this method actually does a better job of keeping the web of my hand as far up on the grip as possible. All personal preference, I suppose. Paddle over button any day. With my middle finger I can push against the index finger on the slide. It works better for me...I find my grip is disturbed less than what it takes for me to use my thumb to hit the mag release button.
Trigger finger for both slide & mag release.
Initially it was trigger finger, but now middle finger (both strong and weak hand). Middle finger is safer, faster and require less (to none) grip shift for those with long fingers.
Initially it was trigger finger, but now middle finger (both strong and weak hand). Middle finger is safer, faster and require less (to none) grip shift for those with long fingers.
I just got a PPQ and found myself using trigger finger thus far.
Why do you believe the use of your middle finger is safer?
I have several HKs and a couple of Walthers and I believe their mag release system is superior to all others---I use the strong side trigger finger and find this perfectly natural. I can shoot with either hand and operate the controls just fine.
acaixguard
12-22-12, 13:16
Thanks guys. I practiced at home with both methods. Turns out I think I'm a hair faster with using my middle finger, and just seems a bit more intuitive for me.
Took the PPQ to the range today for the first time. 200 rounds, not a single malf. Well, I did have one round who's primer just would not pop. Tried that same round multiple times, and still nothing. Anyhow, the gun itself was very accurate Even though I am not thrilled with the factory sights, I was still able to put my rounds where I wanted up to 25 yards. I gotta say, I have not shot better on any other 9mm platform than this.
acaixguard
12-22-12, 13:20
One other question out of curiosity. What backstrap insert are you all using? I have very medium size hands, but I find that I like the small backstrap the best.
I prefer the medium backstrap.
This question was brought up on the Walther forum a little while back:
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/21088-what-size-backstrap-do-you-prefer.html
acaixguard
12-22-12, 16:31
Shooting a half size IPSC steel target at various speeds at the 25 yard line. Not bad considering all the head shots were intentional :)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/ks1911shooter/Guns/IMG_0193_zps597948c1.jpg
Trigger finger release on the PPQ. I like this type of mag release.
Faster,and seems more natural to me. Same thing with weak hand shooting.I had no problem adapting.
I just got a PPQ and found myself using trigger finger thus far.
Why do you believe the use of your middle finger is safer?
Witnessed some NDs due to use of trigger finger to actuate magazine release. Thing is that when in hurry, we take "shortcuts" and fastest route for trigger finger to reach paddle release is... across trigger shoe. And... Bang!
Especially easy to do with short and light triggers, like HK match trigger (or custom modified triggers) or Walther PPQ trigger. Long triggers, like HK LEM are safer in this regard, because trigger shoe "escapes" forward as soon as trigger finger looses muscle tension. But nevertheless, I use middle finger, no matter of trigger system used.
But to use middle finger, trigger finger goes straight and outside of trigger guard (body mechanics), so it is safer.
I use my thumb and trigger finger in unison on my HK's, I've not figured out the best way for the "way too thin" release on the PPQ. I far prefer the HK release to the Walther on the PPQ as it is much more easily missed with either method.
Note that I prefer the HK paddle to any other mag release I've used, including the 1911.
Trigger finger on my .40 Walther PPQ.
Trigger finger makes me nervous - under competition or real-world pressure, could you get sloppy and have a ND? Maybe. Middle-finger is slower but takes some of those nerves away.
If the PPQ w/ American button release is otherwise equal to the current PPQ, I'll probably trade out mine for one. I'm fine with paddle releases but don't find them to be all that much quicker and I need to break my grip either way.
Backstrap-wise, I was using the large and switched back to medium. The large (IMO) makes it harder to get the highest grip possible, though my hands are big enough I liked the hair of extra room for my support hand.
I'm also in the trigger finger crowd.
Middle-finger is slower but takes some of those nerves away.
It is not slower. My experience (and timer) shows that magazine changes are as fast with use of middle finger as they are with trigger finger.
As a lefty, I am used to using my trigger finger on button style releases. So moving to my HKs, the trigger finger was the natural choice. Over time, however, this has evolved into a finger-thumb pinch.
Fwiw, I tried using my middle finger, but found I hit the paddle at an odd angle that prevented the mag from releasing consistently. Swapping the standard USPc paddle for the HK45c mitigated this, but by then the muscle memory was too strong to be worth changing.
As a lefty, I am used to using my trigger finger on button style releases. So moving to my HKs, the trigger finger was the natural choice. Over time, however, this has evolved into a finger-thumb pinch.
Fwiw, I tried using my middle finger, but found I hit the paddle at an odd angle that prevented the mag from releasing consistently. Swapping the standard USPc paddle for the HK45c mitigated this, but by then the muscle memory was too strong to be worth changing.
I'm also lefty and I use middle finger on button releases (1911, 2011, Glock, CZ). But I do not use tip of middle finger on those, but rather second joint.
Never had a problem with middle finger on USP and P2000 (same as USPc) releases. Now, with P30 and HK45C releases it is even easier.
PPQ, strong side thumb for slide, trigger finger for mag
Trigger finger for mag release on my p30. I also use the small backstrap for my medium hands but short fingers. :jester:
Walther has a PPQ giveaway contest coming up, end of January. Here's the picture they post. Note mag release.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1171_176562129134145_1852323258_n.jpg
Witnessed some NDs due to use of trigger finger to actuate magazine release. Thing is that when in hurry, we take "shortcuts" and fastest route for trigger finger to reach paddle release is... across trigger shoe. And... Bang!
Only way this is possible is when there is a live round chambered. That means the shooter is performing a tac reload or reload with retention. Either one of them is meant to be done when shooter has enough time to perform the task at hand with due care and attention.
The only situation - that I know of - where appropriate care and attention are neglected in regards to tac/retention reloads is competition. Competition puts these tasks on timer, even though they are not meant to be done in a hurry. So I am not seeing how NDs with trigger finger release are indictment against this method; it is the demanded task that is unsafe.
Been dropping mags with trigger finger since 2005, and I even reverse magazine buttons when I can.
Been dropping mags with trigger finger since 2005, and I even reverse magazine buttons when I can.
Whatever suits you. I just pointed out that when using trigger finger ND is possible, while when using middle finger it is not. That is all. Everyone can make own conclusion and choice.
Whatever suits you. I just pointed out that when using trigger finger ND is possible, while when using middle finger it is not. That is all. Everyone can make own conclusion and choice.
Correct. All I did is pointed under what specific circumstances a trigger finger ND is possible, just because I believe it factors into conclusions and choices.
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