View Full Version : Reasons you need 30 round clips?
Heh. Ok, so of course I know the following things... First I need to add up top here so that someone doesn't confuse the title and post some idiocy about clips v mags that obvious the tell tale use of clips just shows immediately you're talking to someone without even the most basic knowledge of firearms... We all know they are magazines. The title was sarcasm.
The keeping a bearing of the standard capacity (30 round) magazines:
- it has shit to do with NEED, it's a right
- the 2ndA was intended to provide the citizen with the same tools that may be used against them, if the police and mil have determined to use 30 round mags then so should citizens
That said.... I see this question come up a lot and I would like to have a list of clear and concise answers to shut people up or better yet educated them. The more the better obviously but let's keep this in the frame that this isn't a list to convince rabbit anti-gunners, it's a list to show to people that honestly might not know any better including gun owners.
Some additional reason to own 30-round mags that I thought up...
- a standard capacity (30 round) magazine allows for effective use of the weapon in a defensive situation when all you might be able to carry is just the gear attached to the gun
- the shape of the human body holding a gun leaves a space where the magazine goes, that space allows for and X sized magazine, with a Y sized bullet the capacity happens to be 20-30 rounds. Any larger and you would be getting hung up on things, any smaller and that space is being wasted. A small 10 round magazine would be too easy to drop or fumble using the gun in a stressful defensible situation.
Then I'm about out. Anyone else? Feel free to reword or refine my short list.
These people cannot be reasoned with. You're attempting to make a logical position in an illogical emotionally driven debate.
Can we start by not calling them clips?
http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40202&d=1294173620
These people cannot be reasoned with. You're attempting to make a logical position in an illogical emotionally driven debate.
Yea THANKS! That's super helpful.
But I'm not trying to have a convenient list to swing some super anti-gunner. I'm looking for a list that could be given to someone who is on the line, honestly don't know anything about it, hears the media they are evil, is perhaps even a gun owner themselves that truly just does not know why they are important.
There are members here that might be considering it as "not such a bad thing" if mags were limited, or at worst a concession for the greater good or some other misguided BS.
Can we start by not calling them clips?
Yea thanks for that ass, that was to get you to post in here. I ****ing know they are magazines, it was sarcasm.
Failure2Stop
12-22-12, 12:40
Yea thanks for that ass, that was to get you to post in here. I ****ing know they are magazines, it was sarcasm.
Lighten up Francis.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
If you don't like the reaction to your sarcasm, then improve your sarcasm.
I'm looking for a list that could be given to someone who is on the line, honestly don't know anything about it, hears the media they are evil, is perhaps even a gun owner themselves that truly just does not know why they are important.
Then make your life a bit easier.
A. Criminals will have hi-cap mags so only honest people will be disadvantaged.
B. Criminals will use multiple low-cap magazines. Where they had 1 magazine now they will have 3.
C. Changing 3 magazines against a defenseless group of victims will have zero impact on the outcome as it will only add 5 to 10 seconds to the whole ordeal. The victims will have 10 more seconds of anguish in the face of evil as their last memory of this life.
If you spent more time exposing their lies we would all be better off.
Those are good. I'll reword the original post
Then make your life a bit easier.
A. Criminals will have hi-cap mags so only honest people will be disadvantaged.
B. Criminals will use multiple low-cap magazines. Where they had 1 magazine now they will have 3.
C. Changing 3 magazines against a defenseless group of victims will have zero impact on the outcome as it will only add 5 to 10 seconds to the whole ordeal. The victims will have 10 more seconds of anguish in the face of evil as their last memory of this life.
If you spent more time exposing their lies we would all be better off.
The Az shooter was stopped by unarmed civilians when he tried to reload. 6 yr olds won't cut it, but adults can when you can close the distance of a room in the time it takes to reload, and you generally have numbers on your side.
Also, what kind of defensive situation do you need 30 rd mags? Not home defense... You must be talking about tin foil zombie apocalypse/Soviet invasion fantasy?
As a general rule, attackers have far less investment into a situation than defenders. If a defender (good guy) is limited to 10 rd magazines and had to reload, there's a good chance the attacker (bad guy) will use the opportunity to run. If an attacker has to reload, the defender should use the chance to turn the tide. Therefore it makes sense to limit everyone to 10 rd magazines and not grandfather higher capacity mags.
/devils advocate
The Az shooter was stopped by unarmed civilians when he tried to reload. 6 yr olds won't cut it, but adults can when you can close the distance of a room in the time it takes to reload, and you generally have numbers on your side.
Also, what kind of defensive situation do you need 30 rd mags? Not home defense... You must be talking about tin foil zombie apocalypse/Soviet invasion fantasy? Why wouldn't someone need 30 rd. mags? Perp or perps hopped up on meth don't go down so easily. What if it's 5-6 perps? Hits under stress are not always perfect.
As a general rule, attackers have far less investment into a situation than defenders. If a defender (good guy) is limited to 10 rd magazines and had to reload, there's a good chance the attacker (bad guy) will use the opportunity to run.Says who? If an attacker has to reload, the defender should use the chance to turn the tide. Therefore it makes sense to limit everyone to 10 rd magazines and not grandfather higher capacity mags.Why would the criminal limit himself to a 10 rd mag? A criminal doesn't obey the laws and could easily have 30 rd mags. Have to be able to fight fire w/fire.
/devils advocate
Just some quick thoughts. MIL in town so have to not disappear for too long(which would appear rude, I'm told).
The Az shooter was stopped by unarmed civilians when he tried to reload. 6 yr olds won't cut it, but adults can when you can close the distance of a room in the time it takes to reload, and you generally have numbers on your side.
Also, what kind of defensive situation do you need 30 rd mags? Not home defense... You must be talking about tin foil zombie apocalypse/Soviet invasion fantasy?
As a general rule, attackers have far less investment into a situation than defenders. If a defender (good guy) is limited to 10 rd magazines and had to reload, there's a good chance the attacker (bad guy) will use the opportunity to run. If an attacker has to reload, the defender should use the chance to turn the tide. Therefore it makes sense to limit everyone to 10 rd magazines and not grandfather higher capacity mags.
/devils advocate
I think the devils advocate approach is appreciated.
On the Glock, that's an awkward handgun with a much too large mag. But agreed, the asshole fumbled his reload and was taken down. The thing is, even trained, we've all fumbled reloads.
Attacker limited to 10, during a reload a fumble or interruption is possible to be taken down.
Defender limited to 10, fumbles a reload could be life and death. So I would call this a wash... IF you assumed defensive and offensive use of the 30 round mags were equal which they are not. Defensive use of 30 round mags is MUCH more common.
The reason I need 30 round magazines? Need has nothing to do with it. As long as I am not using something unlawfully, it's not anyone's business what I may or may not own.
Alaskapopo
12-22-12, 15:48
Heh. Ok, so of course I know the following things... First I need to add up top here so that someone doesn't confuse the title and post some idiocy about clips v mags that obvious the tell tale use of clips just shows immediately you're talking to someone without even the most basic knowledge of firearms... We all know they are magazines. The title was sarcasm.
The keeping a bearing of the standard capacity (30 round) magazines:
- it has shit to do with NEED, it's a right
- the 2ndA was intended to provide the citizen with the same tools that may be used against them, if the police and mil have determined to use 30 round mags then so should citizens
That said.... I see this question come up a lot and I would like to have a list of clear and concise answers to shut people up or better yet educated them. The more the better obviously but let's keep this in the frame that this isn't a list to convince rabbit anti-gunners, it's a list to show to people that honestly might not know any better including gun owners.
Some additional reason to own 30-round mags that I thought up...
- a standard capacity (30 round) magazine allows for effective use of the weapon in a defensive situation when all you might be able to carry is just the gear attached to the gun
- the shape of the human body holding a gun leaves a space where the magazine goes, that space allows for and X sized magazine, with a Y sized bullet the capacity happens to be 20-30 rounds. Any larger and you would be getting hung up on things, any smaller and that space is being wasted. A small 10 round magazine would be too easy to drop or fumble using the gun in a stressful defensible situation.
Then I'm about out. Anyone else? Feel free to reword or refine my short list.
Reasons
1. for home defense your not likely to be able to grab spare mags and having a lot of rounds in the gun is a good thing.
2. For sports like 3 gun having a high capacity mag is an advantage.
3. Why not.
Multiple perps....home invasion, serious civil distress like the LA riots.
I would also ask them why 10 and not 11 or 9, why 30 is too much...is 29 too much and why. What unchanging principle do they operate from that would inform them as to the proper mag capacity and why.
Alaskapopo
12-22-12, 15:55
The Az shooter was stopped by unarmed civilians when he tried to reload. 6 yr olds won't cut it, but adults can when you can close the distance of a room in the time it takes to reload, and you generally have numbers on your side.
Also, what kind of defensive situation do you need 30 rd mags? Not home defense... You must be talking about tin foil zombie apocalypse/Soviet invasion fantasy?
As a general rule, attackers have far less investment into a situation than defenders. If a defender (good guy) is limited to 10 rd magazines and had to reload, there's a good chance the attacker (bad guy) will use the opportunity to run. If an attacker has to reload, the defender should use the chance to turn the tide. Therefore it makes sense to limit everyone to 10 rd magazines and not grandfather higher capacity mags.
/devils advocate
1. Home defense situation. I disagree while its not the norm there are home invasion style break ins where having a large magazine capacity can mean the different between livng and dying.
2. The whole tackle while reload thing. I have a friend who is mostly pro gun that uses that argument but he wants to limit mags to 30 rounds. The problem is first its arbitrary no matter what the number set is. Next issue is a good shooter can reload very fast making it almost a non issue. Next issue is generally as a civilian you only have time to grab the rifle your limited to the ammo that is in the gun generally. Not sure how many people wear a tac vest to bed with tons of mags. You wake up in the middle of the night and are iny our undies and you grab the gun rack it and hopefully are able to defend yourself. There is not time to grab extra ammo.
Pat
1. Home defense situation. I disagree while its not the norm there are home invasion style break ins where having a large magazine capacity can mean the different between livng and dying.
2. The whole tackle while reload thing. I have a friend who is mostly pro gun that uses that argument but he wants to limit mags to 30 rounds. The problem is first its arbitrary no matter what the number set is. Next issue is a good shooter can reload very fast making it almost a non issue. Next issue is generally as a civilian you only have time to grab the rifle your limited to the ammo that is in the gun generally. Not sure how many people wear a tac vest to bed with tons of mags. You wake up in the middle of the night and are iny our undies and you grab the gun rack it and hopefully are able to defend yourself. There is not time to grab extra ammo.
Pat
Agreed mostly, part of the problem is that we know 5-10 rounds is what you want ideally to stop a threat. To most people who only see movies they think 1 round per attacker and thus when would you ever need to kill (again, loaded language / thoughts) 30 people.
It's an uphill battle every route, so that's why I'm trying to word concisely.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.