View Full Version : NY Fire Fighters shot in line of duty
The story is confusing. Can't understand time line.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/24/firefighters-responding-to-house-fire-met-with-gunfire/?hpt=us_c1
better description
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/24/firefighters-shot-webster-fire_n_2358822.html
Reagans Rascals
12-24-12, 12:40
saw this earlier today...
just ****...
this is beginning to escalate to the point of epidemic..
read "The Tipping Point" By Malcolm Gladwell... discusses why epidemics happen, I have it on .pdf if anyone is interested
gives one a pretty good insight into why things like this are beginning to become more popular
the more this shit is televised and given mainstream media attention... the worse this problem will get...because others on the verge of mental collapse see this shit on the news and it's like a societal "OK" sign for them to do it...
same with suicide... anytime there is a celebrity suicide.. that national suicide rate triples in the following weeks... as if they were all just waiting for someone to tell them its ok to do it...
just waiting for someone to jump in the pool first..
so the more these shitbags do it... and the more attention it receives.. the more it will continue to occur and escalate..
its going to be pretty bad when firefighters have to start carrying shotguns like they did during the Watts riots...
Same shit, different underwear. You're just going to see this being whored out and reported on every channel to demonize gun ownership. You should see the CNN comment section; people are literally calling for gun owners to be killed and saying that the blame is on anybody who owns a firearm.
This is insanity.
FlyingHunter
12-24-12, 12:46
Prayers out for the families of those killed and wounded.
And God help us if the psycho/bad guy used an "an evil black rifle".
Impossible. New York has an assault weapons ban. :)
All sarcasm aside, RIP to the firefighters, and may the injured make a speedy recovery.
Reagans Rascals
12-24-12, 13:04
I hope the shooter laid there, trapped in the house... and literally... physically... burned to death... not pass from smoke inhalation... but physically just laid there and fried up like a piece of bacon... and was awake through the entire thing.... able to feel his skin burn off
Voodoo_Man
12-24-12, 13:09
Firefighters get shot at all the time, around here they ask for police escort often times in known bad areas.
Firefighters get shot at all the time, around here they ask for police escort often times in known bad areas.
Yup.
I have tried to reason with some of these liberal nuts but everyone pounces on the guy who wants to reason. I've received nothing but death threats on CNN today, literally. Also, everyone is saying that Obama should kill all firearm owners by use of drones if we do not immediately hand over all weapons.
That's the liberals biggest come back as of late. "Even if you don't give up your guns, it's nothing a drone attack won't solve". It's really quite sad how brainwashed these people are by the media. Our country is ****ed.
I was a volunteer EMT/FF for over 10 years. I carried a firearm to every scene in my bag. I wasn't the only one and it was made clear that gear bags of each FF usually would contain a firearm. I never carried into the back of the ambulance and would secure my bag in an outside compartment. This same compartment was used to secure firearms of patients also as many car accidents in our area contained a firearm of some sort.
It's extremely difficult, though, to roll up on a scene and defend yourself against an ambush. As civilians and FF's we are not trained to deal with that. The same kind of scenario seems to kill quite a few LEO's too.
We are heading into some strange days and it would behoove Fire Depts to step up their game and develop some training to help awareness of this type of tragedy.
Prayers for the fallen and their families.
The media is whoring out every shooting. Not a peep about the ones stopped by a good guy.
Firefighters get shot at all the time, around here they ask for police escort often times in known bad areas.
I know a few firefighters as well as EMTs who have been shot at enough that they will either require a police escort to go into certain areas, carry their own weapons, or in some cases for EMTs depending on the call at certain complexes, upon arrival get on the loud speaker and ask for the person who called 911 to come out to them because they will not enter. Fortunately, most these areas that are that bad that they will not enter the people calling them aren't serious, just a cold or something and think that if they arrive in an ambulance they will get treatment faster. Is a sad situation honestly.
Yup.
I have tried to reason with some of these liberal nuts but everyone pounces on the guy who wants to reason. I've received nothing but death threats on CNN today, literally. Also, everyone is saying that Obama should kill all firearm owners by use of drones if we do not immediately hand over all weapons.
That's the liberals biggest come back as of late. "Even if you don't give up your guns, it's nothing a drone attack won't solve". It's really quite sad how brainwashed these people are by the media. Our country is ****ed.
Umm, correct me if I am wrong but doesn't that fall under terroristic threat? As in people in the recent past being arrested for saying or advocating shit like that?
Umm, correct me if I am wrong but doesn't that fall under terroristic threat? As in people in the recent past being arrested for saying or advocating shit like that?
If it were somebody pro-gun saying it then you better believe the cops would be involved, CNN contacting ISP.. God knows what else... Unfortunately this is the situation with the country. Like I said... this country is ****ed.
I am getting a really weird feeling that I am going to have to coach my son that he can't talk about the guns or going shooting with dad when he's at school.
I think I may have to edit my signature so that it applies to all forms of media/dialogue.
Voodoo_Man
12-24-12, 14:19
It is sad and all, but guess what its the reality of our country.
All of those who are first responders, especially police/fire/emt, get the sharp end of the stick every time. Then it moves on to those who are common in the community.
If I had to tell you guys how many reports of robbery or assorted types of assaults (bats, guns, cars, etc) on postal workers, pizza delivery drivers, local power/plumbing/etc workers. It is truly mind boggling, but its not in any way a gun problem, its a person problem. It is from the same area all the time without fail.
I remember a bunch of years back we had a section 8 highrise in an adjacent AO. Set one of the floors on fire (towards the top) and then when officers and fire personnel showed up they tossed burning coaches off the top of the 20+ story building into the vehicles. It was amazing no one was injured.
On Christmas Eve no less. Not that there is a "good time" to shoot firefighters.
This shithead killed his grandmother with a hammer! WTF is he doing loose on the streets? He violated federal gun laws, which is proof that they don't work on predators. Whoever let this SOB loose is partially responsible for the firefighter's deaths! :mad:
Belmont31R
12-24-12, 16:11
This shithead killed his mother with a hammer! WTF is he doing loose on the streets? He violated federal gun laws, which is proof that they don't work on predators. Whoever let this SOB loose is partially responsible for the firefighter's deaths! :mad:
Revolving door justice system. We would have a lot lower crime rate if we locked people up longer. They release predators upon us and then blame our rights for societies problems.
You see the latest? He's already a convicted felon who was on supervised parole after being convicted of first degree manslaughter after killing his grandmother in the 80s.
Audio from the scene has one of the FFs saying they were engaged by an "assault rifle"
****
RIP Brothers
Cagemonkey
12-24-12, 20:41
Some much for stopping criminals from getting guns. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/24/fire-trap-gunman-dead-after-killing-2-firefighters-at-scene-western-ny-blaze/?test=latestnews
SeriousStudent
12-24-12, 20:56
Prayers sent for the fallen firefighters. :(
RogerinTPA
12-24-12, 21:02
This is all kinds of f--ked up. Another dick head on the loose. That is all the publicity we didn't need. I hope the shooter burns in hell.
Rest in peace Fire Fighters.
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-24-12, 22:53
Happened this morning about 20 min from my house. So far its pretty bad one dead 911 dispatcher, 1 wounded Rochester fireman, 1 dead Webster police LT, 1 wounded Greece police officer. All police officers were off duty, Webster LT was a volunteer fireman as was 911 dispatcher and Rochester fireman. Greece officer was driving buy and slowed down because he saw smoke. This is all first hand info as my wife knew them.
As far as I know right now at least four family's lost there homes.
The guy was a violent felon who served time for killing his grandmother with a hammer. I will keep you guys updated with first hand info when I get it. I have already heard second hand from a trooper buddy that the weapon was unknown, but I know it was an ambush and they could not be reached for more than an hour while they waited for swat. They may have likely been savable but an hour is a long time.
Yup.
I have tried to reason with some of these liberal nuts but everyone pounces on the guy who wants to reason. I've received nothing but death threats on CNN today, literally. Also, everyone is saying that Obama should kill all firearm owners by use of drones if we do not immediately hand over all weapons.
That's the liberals biggest come back as of late. "Even if you don't give up your guns, it's nothing a drone attack won't solve". It's really quite sad how brainwashed these people are by the media. Our country is ****ed.
Are you Dick Morris?
mikelowrey
12-24-12, 23:11
Happened this morning about 20 min from my house. So far its pretty bad one dead 911 dispatcher, 1 wounded Rochester fireman, 1 dead Webster police LT, 1 wounded Greece police officer. All police officers were off duty, Webster LT was a volunteer fireman as was 911 dispatcher and Rochester fireman. Greece officer was driving buy and slowed down because he saw smoke. This is all first hand info as my wife knew them.
As far as I know right now at least four family's lost there homes.
The guy was a violent felon who served time for killing his grandmother with a hammer. I will keep you guys updated with first hand info when I get it. I have already heard second hand from a trooper buddy that the weapon was unknown, but I know it was an ambush and they could not be reached for more than an hour while they waited for swat. They may have likely been savable but an hour is a long time.
Very sad to hear that. If people knew that we are doing God's work helping other as much as we can, and this is what we get. In this moment I know it is a really hard job to those detectives informing their families about their death in such a day as today. RIP to them. I just wished politicians would listen and do something about our justice system and mental problems.
El Pistolero
12-24-12, 23:21
What kind of piece of shit shoots at firefighters? Or first responders of any kind for that matter. That's low.
citizensoldier16
12-25-12, 00:01
This happened less than 24 hours ago and the major news agencies are burying it. "Convicted felon obtains firearm illegally". It doesn't support their Liberal agenda. Two dead grown men doesn't illicit the same knee-jerk response from the public (read: sheep) as does dead children. As a professional paramedic...I find this appalling.
Edit: For 10 years I have not worn body armor at work, even though I am issued a new vest every 2 years. Who shoots at paramedics? However, given today's events in NY, I will reluctantly don my body armor tomorrow when I gear up for another 12 hour shift. What the actual **** has the world come to when paramedics and firefighters need body armor in their own freaking country?!
Magic_Salad0892
12-25-12, 00:43
I know it isn't gonna make anybody in this thread feel better, but I have a friend who's a firefighter, and his brother is a paramedic, and I was actually planning on getting them pistol plates for Christmas this year.
(I'm just waiting for them to come in the mail.)
(Their dad, who's a cop was really happy about the duty holster I bought him a few years back, that family took me in, and helped me get off drugs a few years back.)
Moose-Knuckle
12-25-12, 02:50
What kind of piece of shit shoots at firefighters? Or first responders of any kind for that matter. That's low.
The same kind of piece of shit who does this . . .
The guy was a violent felon who served time for killing his grandmother with a hammer.
This is what happens when you don't put oxygen thieves to death. They murder and hurt more innocent people. And now instead of looking at how and why a guy who beat his own grandmother to death with a hammer is out and about the .gov and their state ran media will sensationalize the fact that he used an "assault rifle" to further their agenda to disarm We the People.
Hate to throw this bit of shitty info out there but they just released that the gun was a Bushmaster AR15. Who knows if that's the truth, seems pretty ****ing coincidental to me, but it doesn't sound good for NY gun owners.
Moose-Knuckle
12-25-12, 18:52
Hate to throw this bit of shitty info out there but they just released that the gun was a Bushmaster AR15. Who knows if that's the truth, seems pretty ****ing coincidental to me, but it doesn't sound good for NY gun owners.
But I thought NYS already had an assault rifle ban in place, how can this be . . . :jester:
Cagemonkey
12-25-12, 19:01
But I thought NYS already had an assault rifle ban in place, how can this be . . . :jester:So doesn't Connecticut and all the other states the likes of Shumer, Feinstein and Bloomberg come from.
Moose-Knuckle
12-25-12, 19:04
So does Connecticut and all the other states the likes of Shumer, Feinstein and Bloomberg come from.
OMG! How can this be?!?!? But, but the anti's tell us gun control works and that will all be safe and secure.
Well we have a possible motive here too.
Seems when his mother died she gave some money to the local fire department. Could very well be that instead of giving money to her POS kid who killed his grandmother (possibly his Mom's mother) she may have not left him a dime and given it all away.
Hate to throw this bit of shitty info out there but they just released that the gun was a Bushmaster AR15. Who knows if that's the truth, seems pretty ****ing coincidental to me, but it doesn't sound good for NY gun owners.
Don't think it will make much difference for us in NY. If they ban AR's altogether All they can do is ban importation of rifles made after the ban date. I have a car and will drive in my "pre ban lowers". **** NY it's city folks trying to dictate to the masses. I don't give a shit what they come up with. They are ****ing idiots. Cuomo just realized on Christmas Eve that NY. couldn't afford to illegally force us to sell them our rifles. ****ing Idiots. Any ban these jackasses come up with I will circumvent or simply ignore.
Cagemonkey
12-25-12, 19:23
OMG! How can this be?!?!? But, but the anti's tell us gun control works and that will all be safe and secure.This whole AWB debate is BS. If any state wants a AWB, all it has to do is enact one at the state level. This should be a States Rights issue.
This whole AWB debate is BS. If any state wants a AWB, all it has to do is enact one at the state level. This should be a States Rights issue.
No it should not. No state should have the right to infringe on anyones 2A rights.
Cagemonkey
12-25-12, 19:33
No it should not. No state should have the right to infringe on anyones 2A rights.Didn't say I agreed with it. Just saying its not the Federal Gov'ts jurisdiction. As far as for the States themselves, I agree it should be unconstitutional, unfortunately the courts don't see it that way. You already conceded that being a New Yorker your ****ed anyway. Same goes for me being in MA.
Belmont31R
12-25-12, 19:33
Beat his grandma to death with a hammer, and the turd is released back into the wild.
Of course it's turned into another gun control debate talking point, and not the fact ALL of these people should have either been locked up. These turds in AZ, CO, CT, and now NY all had serious mental health issues or violent/murderous histories....yet they were freely roaming around. :rolleyes:
Cagemonkey
12-25-12, 19:39
Beat his grandma to death with a hammer, and the turd is released back into the wild.
Of course it's turned into another gun control debate talking point, and not the fact ALL of these people should have either been locked up. These turds in AZ, CO, CT, and now NY all had serious mental health issues or violent/murderous histories....yet they were freely roaming around. :rolleyes:That way he can unleash some more terror on the population, which in turn will beg the Gov't for protection, albeit a price. Works in the scheme of things for our rulers.
Didn't say I agreed with it. Just saying its not the Federal Gov'ts jurisdiction. As far as for the States themselves, I agree it should be unconstitutional, unfortunately the courts don't see it that way. You already conceded that being a New Yorker your ****ed anyway. Same goes for me being in MA.
Whoa, what? How does it become the states jurisdiction? The whole "reasonable restriction" shit should never have been put in there and I still am at a loss to explain that one. I have addresses in NY. and PA. and I have a few "preban rifles" so I guess I'm only kinda ****ed. I'm also kinda confused as to exactly how the courts see it. Hell I'm not sure what "IT" is.
Don't think it will make much difference for us in NY. If they ban AR's altogether All they can do is ban importation of rifles made after the ban date. I have a car and will drive in my "pre ban lowers". **** NY it's city folks trying to dictate to the masses. I don't give a shit what they come up with. They are ****ing idiots. Cuomo just realized on Christmas Eve that NY. couldn't afford to illegally force us to sell them our rifles. ****ing Idiots. Any ban these jackasses come up with I will circumvent or simply ignore.
I tend to agree, even though I'm going to vote with my feet in about T minus 2.5 years.
So did Cuomo concede that he wont force confiscate, or force buy backs?
I have a feeling we will see a 100% ban on all high capacity magazines in the state even if they are "preban". He will call it a loop hole and say he is closing it.
ShortytheFirefighter
12-26-12, 15:54
Regrettably, this isn't the first time that this has happened and it won't be the last.
The job is dangerous enough without having to think about something like this happening, now it's one more thing to think about every time I get on the truck. Statistically speaking, it's down towards the bottom of my list of things to be concerned with when I show up at a fire, but it's on the list.
RIP to the deceased and my prayers are with the wounded and the families of all involved.
It'll be interesting to find out how he obtained these weapons given his prior history.
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-27-12, 16:38
OK so I know a little more. Shooters sister dead in house, there is a note outlining the exact scenario that unfolded. He was dangerous and the sister who had lived with him, was moving out. Guns where not acquired legally.
Did you ever hear exactly how he was able to pin them down. I heard there were 4 guys but 1 was able to run to cover. Then 3 got pinned down and had no way of escape. --- this all may not be correct but close to what I heard. Just wondered how he pulled it off that way.
So did Cuomo concede that he wont force confiscate, or force buy backs?
I have a feeling we will see a 100% ban on all high capacity magazines in the state even if they are "preban". He will call it a loop hole and say he is closing it.
He did say buyback was gone, NY. can't afford it. An estimated 1million plus "assault rifles" in NY @ $1000 a pop (figure the news used) is not going to happen. As for the rest. I don't think he has the power to do any of it on his own. I'm not sure he can deem something legally obtained illegal. If he can, **** it I'm not complying. Confiscation is an absurd notion.
Guns where not acquired legally.
Of course not.
But more laws will help.
:suicide:
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-28-12, 08:32
Did you ever hear exactly how he was able to pin them down. I heard there were 4 guys but 1 was able to run to cover. Then 3 got pinned down and had no way of escape. --- this all may not be correct but close to what I heard. Just wondered how he pulled it off that way.
One shooter, he did not have to pin them down. It was a text book ambush he took out lead vehicle and blocked the road. The road its self is on the side of a cliff next to lake Ontario and his home was right at the bend.
He killed sister, set fire, and waited. Engaged the fireman in the street when they dismounted the truck. Two fell, we listened to the audio yesterday, my wife was crying the entire time. I do not know which fireman was on the radio, but he had wounds to his pelvis and leg. He was amazingly calm the entire time, calling out distance and direction. Painting a very good picture of the seen for his brother and sisters. He was calm as to not excite his guys to the graveness of his condition, but he stated 3 times I am going to die if you don't hurry up!
I don't know why it took swat so long to get there. Webster is not a big town, but in my mind and I'm not judging an hour is just to long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7VXwnyAvp8
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1876406.proteus.fma#quickPage_html_page_22995_content_85816889_pageNum_1
Some stupid skank made a straw-purchase at the local Gander Mountain for him. I hope she gets a lethal injection.
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 11:37
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1876406.proteus.fma#quickPage_html_page_22995_content_85816889_pageNum_1
Some stupid skank made a straw-purchase at the local Gander Mountain for him. I hope she gets a lethal injection.
Yup. That twat needs to pay.
Burn her ass, hard! Why isn't her picture on the front page all over the country? She needs to be made an example of. :mad:
The Enemy Within:
http://c.o0bc.com/rf/image_539o215/Boston/2011-2020/Wires/2012/12/29/Boston.com/APOnlineImages/2012-12-28/1ced8cc00ee945269ba998bbbf0b6154-ccf27a5f87c80624250f6a706700f519.jpg
"She bought the Bushmaster for him in 2010, when she was 22. Maybe she was young and ignorant and didn't know the laws." some might say.
Well . . .
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/30/7etamaba.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
12-30-12, 01:09
Why isn't her picture on the front page all over the country?
Easy.
Because it doesn't jive with the anti's agenda. The problem after all is the firearms, not the strawman.
This is proof positive that gun laws DO NOT work.
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=1876406.proteus.fma#quickPage_html_page_22995_content_85816889_pageNum_1
Some stupid skank made a straw-purchase at the local Gander Mountain for him. I hope she gets a lethal injection.
Except NY no longer has the death penalty.
Except NY no longer has the death penalty.
Even if its a Federal Crime she's convicted of?
Even if its a Federal Crime she's convicted of?
Depends, the authority of the federal government to impose the death penalty following criminal conviction of federal capital crime does supersede the authority of the state in which the crime was committed even if that state does not endorse capital punishment. But think capital crimes including the murder of designated government officials, sexual crimes that result in the death of the victim, or leaders of large-scale drug trafficking enterprises, etc. There will most likely be a federal indictment in this case sure but iirc the max federal penalty for straw purchasers is 10 years in prison and that is rarely imposed. Plus she has not prior felony convictions, obviously.
10 years max? That's horseshit.
She recklessly and negligently, or maybe even knowingly, armed a convicted felon with a battle rifle, who then went on a shooting spree. That should be at least 25 years IMO.
10 years max? That's horseshit.
She recklessly and negligently, or maybe even knowingly, armed a convicted felon with a battle rifle, who then went on a shooting spree. That should be at least 25 years IMO.
True, but what two years after the fact or so. Her criminal culpability would increase multiple times over depending on what she knew at the time she unlawfully transferred the firearm to the shooter. Such as whether or not it was going to be used in the commission of a felony, etc.
I see no need to call it a battle rifle tho.
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-30-12, 06:57
The wife and her co workers are all saying 10 years max
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