View Full Version : Quality OF CMMG ?
Thanks in advance, Has anyone had any dealings with CMMG inc. and what do you think of parts. I'm building a gun from several Mfg. and would like to use their 16'' SST M10 Medcon upper.:D
The Archangel
02-24-08, 18:30
Good parts, better than most. Outstanding customer service. Buy with confidence.
Great people, great products. A+ all around.
JeepDriver
02-24-08, 18:58
I have 3 complete uppers and have used 2 of thier barrels on personal rifle builds and many more for customers.
No complaints from me
i've got a 16" middy.
excellent. they got it to me pretty quick too considering it was the holiday season.
i have over 1000 rounds through mine. accurate, nice fit and finish, very reliable.
you really can't beat the features for the price.
yeah, noveske and LMT are probably better, but you're better off taking the 400 bucks or whatever that you'd save and actually running some rounds through the gun.
Their machine work looks real smooth, unlike many others.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z96/M4builder/ARFCOM/100_0025.jpg
I have a CMMG 14.5” mid length upper. I have put around 3,000 through it without any problems. I have been very satisfied with it.
One thing to note - The bolt carrier was not properly staked. I corrected with the pocket MOACKS. Here’s what mine looked like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/staking/CMTSTAGEARLYSW.jpg
Picture from the post on staking: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6993
I hear that they may be doing their staking properly now.
You may want to do a search. Many people here have had good to bad experiences with both products and customer service from CMMG.
Also take a look at rob_s' comparison chart for a more detailed information:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642&highlight=comparison+chart
S/F,
Jeff
You may want to do a search.
Indeed. Dig deeper for better information.
General consensus is that CMMG is hit or miss in both parts quality department and customer service. I don't know about you but I would not want that if I was buying complete weapon or major parts.
YMMV.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10775&highlight=cmmg
C4
I have a CMMG 14.5” mid length upper. I have put around 3,000 through it without any problems. I have been very satisfied with it.
One thing to note - The bolt carrier was not properly staked. I corrected with the pocket MOACKS. Here’s what mine looked like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/staking/CMTSTAGEARLYSW.jpg
Picture from the post on staking: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6993
I hear that they may be doing their staking properly now.
That is a Stag/CMT carrier.
I ordered a 16" LW middy upper last year. No problems, the gas key was properly staked, and the upper was delivered in 5-7 days. The upper has about 1000 rounds through it but has not really been run hard. I use it for matches and took it out hunting last year. Overall the upper was put together well and functioned as advertised. The upper has the cerro forge keyhole marking and the barrel is stamped "CMMG 5.56 MP 1x7" just in front of the barrel nut. I got quick replies from Jeff whenever I emailed them and would buy from them again.
A friend of mine was so impressed with my upper (I was the guinea pig) that he decided to order a barrel from them for a SPR build. This turned into a two month fiasco with emails not being answered and evasive answers on the phone. The order was eventually cancelled.
CMMG can put together a quality product and offers features and variations that other people don't. Their customer service seems to be hit and miss. My experience was good. If you want something that isn't "standard" then I think they are a good choice. Just call to make sure they have what you want in stock.
Caveat: A lot of people on the errornet lately have been insinuating that CMMG does not really do what they say they do as far as the barrel steel and MP testing their barrels and bolts and that they use DPMS parts. There is no way that I know of to prove or disprove this. I believe that CMMG is truthful about their products simply because they have to be aware of the consequences if they were proven to have misrepresented their products to so many for so long. If not I have a nice DPMS/CMMG rifle that works well for its intended purpose as a match gun.
Caveat: A lot of people on the errornet lately have been insinuating that CMMG does not really do what they say they do as far as the barrel steel and MP testing their barrels and bolts and that they use DPMS parts. There is no way that I know of to prove or disprove this. I believe that CMMG is truthful about their products simply because they have to be aware of the consequences if they were proven to have misrepresented their products to so many for so long. If not I have a nice DPMS/CMMG rifle that works well for its intended purpose as a match gun.
There really are no consequences. If CMMG barrels have been misrepresented, they gain a poor reputation online and then what? They lose some internet sales and go back to selling CMMG/DPMS rifles locally or at gun shows. There is momentary "spike" in the bandwidth usage of M4C.net and the "other" sites from all the bitching and debating, and CMMG ends up in the "good enough" category with the likes of Stag, Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA (which people buy all the time).
Olympic has the worst reputation I have ever seen online, however they are still cluttering the shelves of most gun stores i've been in, and they still stay in business year after year. They blatantly misrepresent their barrel materials (4140 CM offers the same benefits of chrome lining but with better accuracy) on their webpage, but people STILL buy them.
That being said I had some lackluster customer service with CMMG regarding a couple lightweight barrels last year, their replies to emails were almost like i was annoying them which i wasn't expecting from a company that came so highly recommended. Instead I ordered some AR6520 barrels from SAW and called it a day.
Remember911
02-26-08, 12:53
There really are no consequences. If CMMG barrels have been misrepresented, they gain a poor reputation online and then what? They lose some internet sales and go back to selling CMMG/DPMS rifles locally or at gun shows. There is momentary "spike" in the bandwidth usage of M4C.net and the "other" sites from all the bitching and debating, and CMMG ends up in the "good enough" category with the likes of Stag, Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA (which people buy all the time).
Olympic has the worst reputation I have ever seen online, however they are still cluttering the shelves of most gun stores i've been in, and they still stay in business year after year. They blatantly misrepresent their barrel materials (4140 CM offers the same benefits of chrome lining but with better accuracy) on their webpage, but people STILL buy them.
That being said I had some lackluster customer service with CMMG regarding a couple lightweight barrels last year, their replies to emails were almost like i was annoying them which i wasn't expecting from a company that came so highly recommended. Instead I ordered some AR6520 barrels from SAW and called it a day.
They have said for years they did all thier own barrels and forging in house I would like to hear what the answer to that would be to day. I know they visit this sight and they know I know the truth. It would be intresting to see if you would trust them now. And this is just to set thing right CMMG makes a good gun. but to say you do things and not really do them I think would be bad for biz. I am sure one day they will come clean.
I guess I'm just an "end result" kind of guy. I don't care who does their machine work, or where their barrels come from. They have been quality parts for me, accurate & reliable.
Granted, I only buy barrels from them, so I'm not qualified to comment on the rest of their stuff. Except that their CS rep. Linda has been just great to deal with.
:)
Remember911
02-26-08, 17:16
So the statment (Their machine work looks good )now knowing that it is not theirs does not bother you,or do you feel like you have not been told the truth about thier barrels? And I am not tring to bash I am just stating the facts When I buy something I like being told the truth. Like I said I like thier stuff but I know where it comes from and that makes all the diff to me. You claim to know alot about CMMG but when I worked for them 5 years I don't think I saw you one time at the shop. And the machinest that you claim they had was my son. Now it has been 1 year so I don't know what happens over there any more I just know they where not completely truthful when I worked for them. That said I don't think that every one tells the truth all the time. :o And yes they would have liked me to sign a gag order I only in good taste give info out.
You claim to know alot about CMMG but when I worked for them 5 years I don't think I saw you one time at the shop.
This is great! :D
C4
Remember911
02-26-08, 17:32
You know where this is going to go. :D
Remember 911-
Ok, I'm asking. If you know what the deal is share it with the rest of us. I'm grown enough not to cry too hard over spilled milk, but if I need to eat crow for recommending some BS to others I'd like to know about it. Just lay it out in plain English where they get there parts from, what features they lied about, and if my CMMG match gun is just a DPMS match gun.
It won't kill me, the gun I trust is a LM&T Defender 2000 anyway. But some others carry there products in harms way and I might be partly responsible for that......:(
ETA: If you don't want to discuss this in open please IM with the details (And Grant if you have the time....)
Remember911
02-26-08, 19:50
If you want info email me I don't wish to trun this into a bad thing. I work hard for them to get where they are. Even if I don't agree with how they do biz now.
Not like I was the only one, just one big factor. And it was hard to leave. I just would not beleave all you hear. And that is the problem what do you beleave?
Robb Jensen
02-26-08, 19:53
I've used them in personal guns and for customer builds and haven't had any trouble (less than 50 barrels). I'm a small fish in a big pond so my experience doesn't mean much.
Remember911
02-26-08, 20:19
I think that you could still get good stuff from them just don't think I would buy the BB when you could get a Stag for just about the same price,and you know where the parts came from. Or at least Stag say it is their parts. CMMG will tell you that the barrels are not thiers. And we can see that the lowers are not most are DPMS not a bad thing.;)
I would not hesitate to buy parts from them if a costm. was wanting their parts for a build.
PS look I would like to tell all but I don't think that would do any good. When I see something that may not be the truth I try to set it straight, and by no means am I the sh---t on it all. sound like most here have the info they need, and can form thier own OP.
I think that you could still get good stuff from them just don't think I would buy the BB when you could get a Stag for just about the same price,and you know where the parts came from. Or at least Stag say it is their parts. CMMG will tell you that the barrels are not thiers. And we can see that the lowers are not most are DPMS not a bad thing.;)
I would not hesitate to buy parts from them if a costm. was wanting their parts for a build.
so who makes the barrels? are they in fact 4150 steel?
PM me if you want.
it seems to me that CMMG makes a nice product for the cash. not everybody can drop the money for LMT or noveske.
i had a very positive customer service experience personally.
it seems to me that CMMG makes a nice product for the cash. not everybody can drop the money for LMT or noveske.
CMMG 16" Upper Complete - $525
LMT 16" Upper Complete - $609
(LMT 16" Upper - $439, LMT FA BCG - $130, Charging handle - $20, Generic Single Shield M4 HGs - $20)
the equivalent LMT upper setup (upper, BCG, CH, HGs) is about $80 more than CMMG.
so who makes the barrels? are they in fact 4150 steel?
PM me if you want.
it seems to me that CMMG makes a nice product for the cash. not everybody can drop the money for LMT or noveske.
i had a very positive customer service experience personally.
Remember that there are many different types of 4150. The Military uses 4150-ORD, 4150-SUL or CMV.
The 4150 that CMMG and BM uses is NOT the same as required by the Military.
C4
Remember that there are many different types of 4150. The Military uses 4150-ORD, 4150-SUL or CMV.
The 4150 that CMMG and BM uses is NOT the same as required by the Military.
C4
Looks like the devil is in the details ;)
So the statment (Their machine work looks good )now knowing that it is not theirs does not bother you,or do you feel like you have not been told the truth about thier barrels? And I am not tring to bash I am just stating the facts When I buy something I like being told the truth. Like I said I like thier stuff but I know where it comes from and that makes all the diff to me. You claim to know alot about CMMG but when I worked for them 5 years I don't think I saw you one time at the shop. And the machinest that you claim they had was my son. Now it has been 1 year so I don't know what happens over there any more I just know they where not completely truthful when I worked for them. That said I don't think that every one tells the truth all the time. And yes they would have liked me to sign a gag order I only in good taste give info out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember that there are many different types of 4150. The Military uses 4150-ORD, 4150-SUL or CMV.
The 4150 that CMMG and BM uses is NOT the same as required by the Military.
C4
OK,
#1, I never said I know a lot about CMMG's practices. I said I don't care what they are, as long as they give me a quality product. I only know what Jeff has said to me in our occasional e-mails about their products.
#2. You said they don't make their own barrels, but, you know what they are made of because you worked there. If they aren't making the barrels how do they even know what they are made of? Did you perform destructive metallurgical testing on their barrels?
#3. You show up in every CMMG thread (in many forums) saying these things about their integrity to steer anyone away from them. You never say that their products are sud-standard, or poor quality, just that they misrepresent their source.
#4. I am a shooter, not an integrity cop. I care about what their product performs like, not it's source. Every company making ARs uses outside sources for different parts of the weapon...even Colt. Why should I care what company Jeff uses to get his barrels from, as long as they are accurate/reliable/durable enough for my needs.
You & Luke have had a bad experience with them, for that I'm sorry.
However, it has no play in whether or not their stuff is up to the standards of us "end users". And doesn't really warrant implying negative things about them that you are unwilling to disclose the details about....Just- "they're bad people"...."they lie"......."their stuff isn't what it seems"....all without substation, & especially to a multitude of people who will read your posts on the internet. You know that many will simple browse this forum for info, and they won't IM you for details.
So, your negative statements will go out to the world by word-of-mouth, and be damaging to CMMG, and all this without citing a single fact, or providing one specific example of where they do a disservice to the customer in any of your public postings.
Congratulations...you've created an "Urban Legend" about CMMG, and have done your damage.
Thank-you & good-bye
Ellery Holt
03-01-08, 19:28
So, your negative statements will go out to the world by word-of-mouth, and be damaging to CMMG, and all this without citing a single fact, or providing one specific example of where they do a disservice to the customer in any of your public postings.
Congratulations...you've created an "Urban Legend" about CMMG, and have done your damage.
I agree. The site that is suppose to be 'facts only' sure is taking on an arfcom-like flavor lately.
There is the question of "fact" vs. "occurence." If something occurs on your gun, that is an extremely small sample no matter how factual. However, if you combine personal experience with "what you read" (hearsay), you begin to gather evidence (scientific method).
One of the main objectives of this site is to depend only on the latter and eliminate the former. If my life is on the line, that's the way I'd want it.
BOT, when I say CMMG's customer service is lacking, I submit that my order for a stock 16" pencil-barreled upper with mid-gas is past 6 weeks. It was put on back-order around Shot Show. Now every week, the answer is "two weeks."
I don't have the expertise to determine CMMG's quality, so I depend on what I read here and there, since 50% of the AR knowlege on the web is beyond many local gurus/stores. The only option in my price range doesn't offer a standard contour, so I took a chance with CMMG.
I won't repeat the hearsay I read about their product, but I will say when I see word of "bargain bin" rifles shipped within 2 weeks, I get a little antsy. I'm not cancelling my order, since I've also heard plenty about RR stuff taking MUCH longer.
I know S&H is quicker than assembling a good upper, but Larue claims to do both in less than 48 hours, IIRC. I could "speculate" on why CMMG is not investing more in turn-around, or making satisfied customers when it comes to a "lemon," but only God knows the heart. I'd just like to be one of the many who have given (hearsay) CMMG spectacular reviews.
Remember911
03-02-08, 07:10
OK,
#1, I never said I know a lot about CMMG's practices. I said I don't care what they are, as long as they give me a quality product. I only know what Jeff has said to me in our occasional e-mails about their products.
#2. You said they don't make their own barrels, but, you know what they are made of because you worked there. If they aren't making the barrels how do they even know what they are made of? Did you perform destructive metallurgical testing on their barrels?
#3. You show up in every CMMG thread (in many forums) saying these things about their integrity to steer anyone away from them. You never say that their products are sud-standard, or poor quality, just that they misrepresent their source.
#4. I am a shooter, not an integrity cop. I care about what their product performs like, not it's source. Every company making ARs uses outside sources for different parts of the weapon...even Colt. Why should I care what company Jeff uses to get his barrels from, as long as they are accurate/reliable/durable enough for my needs.
You & Luke have had a bad experience with them, for that I'm sorry.
However, it has no play in whether or not their stuff is up to the standards of us "end users". And doesn't really warrant implying negative things about them that you are unwilling to disclose the details about....Just- "they're bad people"...."they lie"......."their stuff isn't what it seems"....all without substation, & especially to a multitude of people who will read your posts on the internet. You know that many will simple browse this forum for info, and they won't IM you for details.
So, your negative statements will go out to the world by word-of-mouth, and be damaging to CMMG, and all this without citing a single fact, or providing one specific example of where they do a disservice to the customer in any of your public postings.
Congratulations...you've created an "Urban Legend" about CMMG, and have done your damage.
Thank-you & good-bye
Ok worked for them and they lie about where they get thier parts the lower PKS come form DPMS barrels are not mil grade 4150 and not tested Mp after beeing fired. The lowers uppers are not stamped out in house . and the reason I quit is they gave up on Q to beat out some grils that where selling 500.00 guns at a show they went to and sold none . It piss them off and they thought they should get back.and I never said thier guns were junk I own 10 that I built. My satement was to you in that you know nothing about them other than you own thier guns. You took it personally and for that I am sorry , and keep buying from them if you wish but some would like to know what they are buying is what is stated KNOW ARE YOU HAPPY AND I AM DONE WITH YOU THANKS. You have done more to hurt them than I wuold hve ever done. Me and my family left them on a good note. Do some research.
I agree. The site that is suppose to be 'facts only' sure is taking on an arfcom-like flavor lately.
First hand knowlege is always king on here. The person giving first hand accounts was an employee of CMMG. I don't know how much better it could be.
For myself, I know that I have seen a good number of CMMG barrels come through our shop. This is why I no longer recommend CMMG. I also know that other dealers that do custom work also have seen a lot of issues with CMMG barrels.
I think Jeff at CMMG is a good guy, but might be over extended which is generally how bad products get out.
C4
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