View Full Version : New to the forum and new to AR building - How do you know when to say when?
Title says it all. I am willing to take any licks that need to be dealt out to an AR virgin. You folks have a good forum and I would like to learn and (eventually) contribute. I am an avid reloader and handgun shooter but frankly I am not an AR guy, yet. Please do not take my ignorance for stupidity, I am willing and able to learn.
That said, I am finding my first build to be quite a challenge. So far I am not having much luck in restraining myself from spending more than I had originally intended.
My original intent was to build a solid, reliable AR (.223/5.56, either 16" carbine or 20" rifle) for my nephew for graduation from the Maritime Academy. I just wanted to make something solid that he could be proud of and use his whole life and remember that his uncle put some thought and work into it. I have a few years before he graduates so by then the weapon can be tested thoroughly by a gunsmith and broken in by me.
What has been happening so far is the more I read the more I spend. I am overbuilding this weapon and I know it. To start, I bought an Anderson stripped lower the day before the CT shooting. Living in MA, I my options were limited in terms of which lowers were available. (As it turns out, I wish I had bought 5-6 of them)
Next, the day after CT, I jumped on a Noveske Vltor MUR (stripped upper) from Rainier for $200. This is probably twice what I was expecting to pay but I got sucked it by the availability and the reviews, here and on other forums. Fortunately, when I mated it to the Anderson lower the fit was excellent- no movement whatsoever, very little gap (and an even gap at that) and the holes all lined up nicely.
The real kicker, and the reason I am reaching out for help, is that today I pulled the trigger on a JP Enterprise FMOS BCG direct from JP for $319. It was in stock, I know its good, so I bought it. Then I realized I just paid $319 for a freaking bolt carrier group.
The question is, where do I go from here? If I keep going like this I am going to have a match barrel and a diamond studded bipod or something.
How do I rein this in a little bit, yet maximize the quality of the components that I have on hand at the same time? At over $600 invested already, it would be foolish to go cheap now.
My (loose) plan is to pickup a basic LPK once they are available again and use that for the test/proofing of the weapon. Down the road, once the expense of the initial purchases has worn off, I will drop in a geiselle ssa trigger. Likewise, I am hoping to get a cheap stock to use for now, and replace it with a magpul or something else before giving it away. Same with the grip. Wear out a cheapie now and replace with something nice later.
Where I am really struggling is on the business end. I simply do not know enough about ARs and their capabilities to know where to go next in terms of barrel, block, etc. Any help (including links to particular threads) would be appreciated.
Also, if it makes more sense to return the JP BCG and wait for a more reasonable BCM/LMT/DD etc to come available, let me know.
You have already spent the money. I say keep it. The JP carrier and bolt are better than mil spec. You have very high quality parts. Now invest in a good SS barrel that is 1/8 or 1/7 and you will have a nice stick. One place to save on a free floated hand guard is a Nordic components handguard. Good quality and half the price of most of them out there. Your in this deep have a rifle that you will be proud of not some half assed build with some great parts and some run of the mill. My two cents ( and how I got sucked into building a JP rifle for the most part)
The trickiest part IMHO will be giving the rifle away..:p
Good stuff, thanks PD. I was leaning towards 1/7 for sure. Seems like we will have more flexibility in bullet choices than 1/9. I hadnt thought of 1/8 at all.
I will look into the handguard- the JP one looks nice great but sure isnt cheap.
And I hear that Airhasz- I am already crossing my fingers and hoping somehow I get my hands on just one more stripped lower so I can keep this build for myself;) I wasnt an AR guy, that is, until I started down this path. Addictive is an understatement!
If you've ever modified cars, same idea... you my set a goal, but there's no real end in sight. My advice is to appropriate money from something else you may not miss, because you're probably going to keep this same pattern. As far as barrel, i like noveske, but you would be fine with any of the typical suggestions on this site. Im not personally that big of a fan of stainless, but figure out what all you want out of the rifle and decide how you want to go.
Some of the more senior members will tell you to use the search button to find the quality parts you're still looking for. Always advisable, but for your particular situation, I'll share my thoughts FWIW. I don't know about the lower, but the other parts are solid. As someone else already said, you've already bought the BCG so might as well keep it - they're hard enough to find right now anyways. For the barrel, look for a BCM, DD, or Colt (as every single thread on this site will tell you :sarcastic:) with an A2 flash hider (I'd use any of their products for a gas block too). I'd recommend Noveske first, but you said that you're already too deep into this project so those others are still awesome at a lower price. I personally would stick with a 1/7, but admittedly know little about the 1/8 or 1/9. Personally, I see no point in SS barrels unless its a precision rig, so I'd choose the chrome lined. You should decide whether you want a low-pro gas block or a fixed front sight post too.Grant (http://www.gandrtactical.com/), a forum sponsor has a solid LPK from what I've heard. I'd hold off on the SSA for now. I love mine, but again, minding price. If your heart is set on a nicer trigger, look into the ALG ACT. Its a polished mil-spec trigger made by the same people. As for the rail, if you're using a fixed FSP, the Magpul MOE is hard to beat at around $30. Their MOE stock isn't too much more and you could be one and done with the stock issue if you pick that up. If you're going low-pro, Centurion Arms and DD both make solid rails. Expensive, but you get what you pay for. Either way, you shouldn't have to replace it any time soon.
The trickiest part IMHO will be giving the rifle away..:p
I think this guy got it right...
You have already spent the money. I say keep it. The JP carrier and bolt are better than mil spec. You have very high quality parts. Now invest in a good SS barrel that is 1/8 or 1/7 and you will have a nice stick. One place to save on a free floated hand guard is a Nordic components handguard. Good quality and half the price of most of them out there. Your in this deep have a rifle that you will be proud of not some half assed build with some great parts and some run of the mill. My two cents ( and how I got sucked into building a JP rifle for the most part)
what makes the jp bcg better than standard bcg that is up to spec. In there descriptions they do not state anything other than there carriers are the best you can get. Nothing about high pressure testing or mp inspection. They even go as far to require nfa paper work if you want an full auto carrier.
So how do you come to the conclusion they are the best carrier available.
Op Im not insinuating you bought garbage. I just wonder why some people make outrageous claims for no reason. I would probably keep it kit due to availability.
You have already spent the money. I say keep it. The JP carrier and bolt are better than mil spec. You have very high quality parts. Now invest in a good SS barrel that is 1/8 or 1/7 and you will have a nice stick. One place to save on a free floated hand guard is a Nordic components handguard. Good quality and half the price of most of them out there. Your in this deep have a rifle that you will be proud of not some half assed build with some great parts and some run of the mill. My two cents ( and how I got sucked into building a JP rifle for the most part)
Better than milspec?
In the description of their enhanced bolt, it says it made of SAE 9310 which is better than milspec 8620 type bolts.
However, current milspec is Carpenter 158.
To OP:
If it were me, I'd return the JP BCG and wait on one from BCM/LMT/DD/Colt.
You said you have a few years, so you should be able to wait out this current run on parts.
You came here, to THIS forum, asking for help to "rein it in"?
... ahahahahahahahaahaha. We're happy to be your enablers, but it seems doubtful that anyone here, myself included, will tell you to slow down.
I would continue with your build since you are in so deep already, but I would ALSO get a complete rifle from one of the companies you mentioned, or Colt or Noveske. Having one of these will give you a high bar to compare your build to, and it will ensure that no matter how your build turns out, you always have a top notch, reliable rifle that is good to go. Once you take a class or two, your preferences and goals for the rifle will likely change. Besides, its nice to have more than one anyway. When the time comes, you can pass them out to loved ones...
Good stuff. Some nice tips there.
I am especially intrigued by the ALG ACT. I like the idea that Geissele has cleaned up the basic mil-spec trigger and stands by it. From what I have read so far, the general consensus is that the ALG isnt anywhere near a SSA (of course), but that it is as good as any mil-spec and better than most. Considering how bad some mil-spec triggers can be I would definitely spend a few bucks to ensure that I get a good, crisp reliable trigger. I am never one to leave a bad trigger alone so this is perfect.
Great idea by Geissele. Thanks for the tip.
And I hear you Clem, I know I should return the JP bcg and get a BCM/DD/LMT/Colt but I will sit on it for a little while and think about it. A bird in hand...
I think you need a better idea of what you want out of the rifle. I went back and forth on what parts I wanted for mine until I finally set in stone what typo of AR I wanted to build. Of course as soon as I am done I will immediately begin building another, I am resigned to my fate. :help:
Fair point Treiz. What configuration do you think would maximize the attributes of an overbuilt BCG and a Noveske MUR?
I struggled with many of the same issues when contemplating what to buy. I think that the roadmap made by Travis Haley and BCM may be able to help you with a build that will encompass much of what you want as many of us don't know what we want until we see it. The Jack carbine certainly is a good baseline to look at for quality and relaibility in parts and components and is a great example of a collaborative effort by many companies to build a great firearm.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-A4-AR15-Bravo-Company-Haley-Strategic-The-Jack-s/166.htm
Impressive idea bowietx. The only big ticket item there is the geissele handguard. A nordik or similar as mentioned above would drop $300 off the price, and dropping the cerrakote would save some pennies (both without sacrificing too much of the original design).
I'm in the same boat sort of. Before the shooting I managed to find one of the last remaining AR lowers in stock in the US I think. I found a DPMS LPK locally and a Magpul UBR stock, H Buffer, and spring.
I then lucked up and found a guy with a NIB 16" Noveske upper with 3 PMags for $1050 shipped.
I think finding good parts I going to e a matter of persitance and diligence. Try checking websites on your lunch break everyday if your employer doesn't mind.
Looks like this thread is a moot point anyway. ZP just emailed me that the BCG I bought wasnt in stock after all. And there I was thinking it was on a UPS truck. So I am in the same boat as everyone else now, waiting for BCM/LMT/Colt/DD to make more BCGs.
Thanks anyway- I learned a lot and will definitely know what to keep an eye out for (definitely getting that trigger for sure).
theblackknight
12-28-12, 14:38
If this is like a 3gun type build, the JP is rockin.
You are awesome for giving this type of present.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
My suggestion begins with identifying the purpose of the gun. Without a destination you can't map the route. Once a purpose is found now you can look at component groups and parts that meet qualities of the purpose. Here is where you will be able to control the cost of parts. While top quality is top quality for a reason, the gun may never be used in a fashion that it needs that top tier part when a quality midgrade part will serve the task well. I am certainly not suggesting you "cheap out". I am suggesting that a quality gun can be built with a plan, part research and smart shopping. You will be able to focus on needs than easily pulled off task.
I am very new to AR15s and I am seeing first hand how easy it is to be pulled off topic. A list of purposes and qualities keeps my eye on the ball.
Good luck with the build.
Spend thousands of dollars on things you don't need. Look at it for months telling yourself, "Damn... thats a fine looking 12lb some bitch right there."
Shit looks cool, until you have to carry it around when you take a summer time class in Texas. Its all good, till you start to sweat and forgot a shemagh or a collared shirt. Suddenly that sling starts to rub your neck in that special way. The way that starts to feel really good when you get sweat on that spot and it start stinging. Now all you can think about is, "Damn, that sucks..."
So to ease the sting, you ditch the laser designator that you thought was super cool and never put it back on. Then you get home that night and think... Wow... I can switch out this CompM4 for a T1 and save a ton of weight on my neck. So you do. Then you think to yourself, Those rails on the side of my gun aren't doing anything but add weight... So you switch out the KAC for a TRX. "WOW, feels so much more nimble and my neck feels better too and I can still mount my light at 12 oclock and have no shadow from my barrel!" So you do. Badda bing! You now have a modern, lightweight and generally inexpensive poodle popper that weighs in around 7.7Lbs. Alot of people go though the "that is badass" phase and buy laser, bi pods, huge vertical grips, and all that when they first start out. They generally look down on the simple guns. Until they pick it up and realize their gun is a brick and thats why the guy at class with an MOE handguard doesn't have a sweat eagle on his chest and you do.
Well now you don't have a choice but to slow down and think about it. Since everybody purchased everything everywhere. Your $600 in parts would cost twice as much (or more) now. So just hang out and look and read here, 'cause you have plenty of time to figure it out. Half the fun is putting it together and then changing your mind and fixing it. That's why you end up with a backup rifle to use up all the leftover's
Looks like this thread is a moot point anyway. ZP just emailed me that the BCG I bought wasnt in stock after all. And there I was thinking it was on a UPS truck. So I am in the same boat as everyone else now, waiting for BCM/LMT/Colt/DD to make more BCGs.
Thanks anyway- I learned a lot and will definitely know what to keep an eye out for (definitely getting that trigger for sure).
Ebay have bcm bcg but they r selling for almost 400 dollars! too much money!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BCM-BCG-Bravo-Company-bolt-carrier-group-BRAND-NEW-/230901272677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c2c9d065
Thanks for the good insight theblackknight, shorts, dasbulk, sea gunner and packers. Damn those are some crazy ebay prices on BCGs- now $319 for a new JP FMOS doesnt seem so bad!
JP says they still have my order open and say they will fill it shortly. So now whats a fella to do? Take a $319 top-end BCG now, or cancel the order and take his chances that in the next year or two the prices and availability will stabilize and get one of the big 4?
Were BCGs available during the last ban?
Spend thousands of dollars on things you don't need. Look at it for months telling yourself, "Damn... thats a fine looking 12lb some bitch right there."
Shit looks cool, until you have to carry it around when you take a summer time class in Texas. Its all good, till you start to sweat and forgot a shemagh or a collared shirt. Suddenly that sling starts to rub your neck in that special way. The way that starts to feel really good when you get sweat on that spot and it start stinging. Now all you can think about is, "Damn, that sucks..."
So to ease the sting, you ditch the laser designator that you thought was super cool and never put it back on. Then you get home that night and think... Wow... I can switch out this CompM4 for a T1 and save a ton of weight on my neck. So you do. Then you think to yourself, Those rails on the side of my gun aren't doing anything but add weight... So you switch out the KAC for a TRX. "WOW, feels so much more nimble and my neck feels better too and I can still mount my light at 12 oclock and have no shadow from my barrel!" So you do. Badda bing! You now have a modern, lightweight and generally inexpensive poodle popper that weighs in around 7.7Lbs. Alot of people go though the "that is badass" phase and buy laser, bi pods, huge vertical grips, and all that when they first start out. They generally look down on the simple guns. Until they pick it up and realize their gun is a brick and thats why the guy at class with an MOE handguard doesn't have a sweat eagle on his chest and you do.
Wow, does this sound familiar. Great post!
Wow, does this sound familiar. Great post!
Definitely one I am taking to heart. I know my nephew is not going to be using this for long range shooting (he is not a BR shooter, plus he has bolt rifles in .243/.30-06 that fill that role) so I am definitely leaning towards a traditional lightweight carbine with a good trigger and a quality barrel, either in 14.5 (with fixed tip) or 16", probably in 1:8 twist. The more I read about 1:8 the more I like the versatility. That decision is well down the road though. I am leaning towards SS because I know he will never put enough rounds through it to shoot it out and the improved initial accuracy is a plus.
I am going to avoid the temptation to build any kind of heavy barrel 18" SPR or anything longer. He isnt going to be running 3 gun or anything. I just want to build him a solid carbine with the best internals I can get, a good barrel and a crisp trigger. I dont think he is the type of kid (well, he is a man now I guess, wow I am old) that wants a tacticool, flashy gun.
2nd.amendment
12-29-12, 16:24
Things are pretty tough to come by at the moment, so here's one option that really seems worth a look.
Alpha Ops has nitrided Daniel Defense 16" barrels with DD bolt carrier groups, pinned lopro gas blocks or FSB and gas tube for a little under $500 shipped (so think $300 barrel, $40 FSB/gas block, $150 BCG, and $10 gas tube). Daniel Defense has top quality hammer forged barrels and quality bolt carrier groups. http://www.alphaops.com/index.php/ar15barrels-c-45
Nitride vs chrome lined is up for discussion, but I don't see how a hammer forged Daniel Defense barrel with pinned gas block will do you wrong. It is 'possible' it is the perfect balance of durability (from hammer forging and nitriding) and accuracy (from not chrome lining).
The only downside is they are new/unproven, but I personally trust Daniel Defense to put out top quality parts and barrels.
oh my thats a great deal, now to decide on fsb or lo pro....
2nd.amendment
12-29-12, 17:05
Glad that might work for you.
Just depends what you want. FSBs have the advantage of offering a very durable sight - Lopro has the advantage of allowing longer rails.
If it was me, I might consider a FSB with a free floated rail (tons of options, I would look at a Troy Alpha 9", Noveske 9" NSR, or Centurion C4 with midlength cutout). So it will maximize accuracy potential and still have the FSB.
If you want to reign yourself in a little on the spending, just set it up with a Magpul MOE midlength handguard. They are very comfortable and adaptable with various rails/accessories.
I didnt even mess around 2nd.amendment. I went with the FSB version and pulled the trigger (so to speak). Now to see if alpha actually has this kit in stock.
Given the climate we are in I have no problem making this purchase just to get the proven BCG. If the barrel is a winner, great. If it isnt- I can always swap it out for a new barrel and bolt in a few years. The application I have in mind is not HD/SD etc, so I have no problem with an unproven technology if it is from a known manufacturer. If it ends up being a winner, then I end up being an even bigger hero for picking a cool new design;)
Now to decide if I pickup another one for myself...
Either way, great tip.
You are awesome for giving this type of present.
He still has to graduate;)
If he starts to F' up in the meantime I might have to drop a hint or two to give him an incentive!
Besides, I get to do the fun part- build, proof, break in, load for it, etc. After that, all he gets to do is shoot it!
If this purchase goes through this build has gone from starting to get crazy expensive to not being that unreasonable. I was at almost $650 for a stripped upper, lower and BCG to potentially being at $800 for a stripped upper and lower, BCG, barrel w/fsb and tube. now if I can just use some discipline and not waste money on grossly overpriced LPKs and furniture...
That being said, if anyone has one of these Palmetto LPKs that comes with the ALG trigger I would pay good money for it;) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/parts-kits/palmetto-state-armory-classic-act-lpk.html
What a great deal that was- under $70 for an LPK that included a $65 trigger group? Those days might be long gone....
2nd.amendment
12-29-12, 18:18
Alpha Ops has real time inventory, so you should be all set for the barrel/BCG combo. Glad that works for you.
If you want the ALG QMS instead - try this - Very nice dealer, I have used them before.
http://www.rogtac.com/lower-parts/lower-parts-kits-triggers/triggers/alg-defense-qms-trigger.html
and you could do this.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/parts-kits/psa-moe-lpk-w-o-fire-control-group-2843.html
PSA parts kits seem to get decent reviews. Otherwise you can always wait and see what comes up that is more to your liking in the next few months. This may all blow over before too long . . . no one can say for sure.
Have fun with the build, sounds like a good incentive, should he need it.
Alpha Ops has real time inventory, so you should be all set for the barrel/BCG combo. Glad that works for you.
If you want the ALG QMS instead - try this - Very nice dealer, I have used them before.
http://www.rogtac.com/lower-parts/lower-parts-kits-triggers/triggers/alg-defense-qms-trigger.html
and you could do this.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/parts-kits/psa-moe-lpk-w-o-fire-control-group-2843.html
PSA parts kits seem to get decent reviews. Otherwise you can always wait and see what comes up that is more to your liking in the next few months. This may all blow over before too long . . . no one can say for sure.
Have fun with the build, sounds like a good incentive, should he need it.
Wow I dont know what kind of google-fu you have but I love it. I searched the PSA sight the last few days for a no-TCG LPK and didnt see that one. Sure, its paying a bit much to buy a LPK for $55 with no trigger but I know I am not going to use the stock trigger anyway, and I highly doubt we will see the ALG version for $60 again anytime soon (if ever). PSA was crazy to sell it that cheap to begin with. I can handle $100-$120 for a complete LPK with Geissele tuned trigger any day. Wow, a LOT has happened in the last few days and I love it. Great site you guys have here.
Thanks again.
2nd.amendment
12-29-12, 19:30
Just glad to try to help. I have been trying to help a couple friends, so I just happen to be in a position to offer some timely options - glad they work for you.
This is a great site, with many very knowledgeable people. I read a lot and rarely post, but occasionally, I feel I may have something to contribute. Especially in these times, we need to see ourselves as a community and act accordingly, which means helping each other when we can. If we try to screw each other over with hoarding, etc., our community will erode and are rights will be taken (sorry for the soap box rant - but hey, look at my screen name).
Sounds like you are putting together a very nice carbine. Enjoy.
SilverTongueDevil
12-29-12, 20:11
My suggestion begins with identifying the purpose of the gun. Without a destination you can't map the route. Once a purpose is found now you can look at component groups and parts that meet qualities of the purpose. Here is where you will be able to control the cost of parts. While top quality is top quality for a reason, the gun may never be used in a fashion that it needs that top tier part when a quality midgrade part will serve the task well. I am certainly not suggesting you "cheap out". I am suggesting that a quality gun can be built with a plan, part research and smart shopping. You will be able to focus on needs than easily pulled off task.
I am very new to AR15s and I am seeing first hand how easy it is to be pulled off topic. A list of purposes and qualities keeps my eye on the ball.
Good luck with the build.
Damn Fine Post Sir...
No need for me to point out much the same....
Just glad to try to help. I have been trying to help a couple friends, so I just happen to be in a position to offer some timely options - glad they work for you.
This is a great site, with many very knowledgeable people. I read a lot and rarely post, but occasionally, I feel I may have something to contribute. Especially in these times, we need to see ourselves as a community and act accordingly, which means helping each other when we can. If we try to screw each other over with hoarding, etc., our community will erode and are rights will be taken (sorry for the soap box rant - but hey, look at my screen name).
Sounds like you are putting together a very nice carbine. Enjoy.
Well I for one am very grateful that you helped out this newbie. I dont know if I could have ended up with as good a 16" carbine as I did without the help of you and this forum (assuming I complete the build process properly). All I need to figure out now is how to tip this barrel and which handguard and stock to choose (and I have certainly received some good tips for a stock/handguard) - and I am "only" $850 invested to this point. I can certainly live with that, given the timing.
I am not worried about optics and accessories- I will use the iron sights and a simple 3-9x40 scope to break it in and leave it at that.
(and I agree STD, Shorts made a great point in his post)
Great thread. Be sure and post a picture of your completed rifle.
Will do. Since I went this far I picked up a Vltor casv-s handguard today direct from Vltor. I like the style, the price wasnt bad and it was in stock. Should work well with the upper. Now I just need a sturdy, functional stock/tube and a flash hider (probably just an A2 style).
So much for taking my time;)
I dont have the tools and I certainly dont have nearly enough know-how yet to start the assembly but in basket form at least, she is pretty much gtg.
2nd.amendment
12-30-12, 19:33
Sounds like it's coming together for you and should be a well-rounded setup.
About your muzzle device. That might be a good place to save some coin also. Might as well start with a A1 or A2 flashhider. Cheap and nothing wrong with them. It can always be changed later as things evolve.
What do u lack. Need to buy you some ammo too. I just bought 1000 rounds of Federal American Eagle 55 gr FMJ for some plate shooting.
Actually, now I think about it, I am going to hold off on the muzzle device and stock until I work through the various legalities of the state(s) in question (mine and my nephew's). I might end up installing a brake instead of a hider. Right now I am leaning towards a FSC556, permanently installed (cringe). I will probably get the cheapest stock I can get and pin it for now as well.
For ammo- I reload a lot and he reloads some (he uses a single stage press). I will work out a load that works for this gun and make some up for him and give him the recipe and/or dies and supplies. That last part depends on whether or not I end up making my own AR;)
Thanks again.
2nd.amendment
12-30-12, 21:43
Sorry to hear you have to contend with ban state garbage. I am in a ban state myself so I use permed comps. I have use a few different brakes and like battle comps because they have less blast than the other options I have tried (for non precision carbines).
I am looking forward to trying BCM's new comp. I also think the Griffin Armament options (M4SD and M4SD flash comp) may be good alternatives to a Battle Comp. The FSC is similar but will have more concussion, which may be okay depending on what you want. Rainier has a more affordable comp (Rainier XTC) option that seems similar to the FSC, but I have not used it myself.
Lots of good review threads here for different compensator/brake options depending on what you want (quick follow-up shots, precision, low concussion).
If you happen to want a Griffin Armament comp, check out SKDtac tonight or tomorrow, they have a nice sale going on through the 31st.
What are the laws for muzzle devise in your state?
Wow you continue to come through 2nd.amendment. If we ever meet I owe you many a beer or beverage of your choice.
I am going to TRY and slow down for the muzzle part, at least, since it could well end up being a permanent decision. I will devour the info you just provided.
The state the gun will eventually be legally transferred to has no ban issues so before I do anything harsh to that cool new DD barrel I will see if I have to.
2nd.amendment
12-30-12, 22:02
Wow you continue to come through 2nd.amendment. If we ever meet I owe you many a beer or beverage of your choice.
I am going to TRY and slow down for the muzzle part, at last, since it could well end up being a permanent decision. I will devour the info you just provided.
The state the gun will eventually be legally transferred to has no ban issues so before I do anything harsh to that cool new DD barrel I will see if I have to.
It's really no problem (beer's good). Definitely take your time and read threads here on comps/brakes. Lots of different perspectives on what is best for a particular purpose.
What are the laws for muzzle devise in your state?
Practically speaking, if it isn't a pre-ban lower, then it needs to have a comp/brake permanently attached (no flashhiders). There's a little more to it that has to do with the complete rifle, but that's the basic idea.
I may end up going the mag-lock route with a 10rd mag since the weapon will only be in a ban state for a few years. I could really care less about banging through mag after mag of ammo anyway- as long as I can safely and legal use the finished weapon to proof it and break it in I dont need to be able to change mags.
If I do that, the ban rules do not apply and I can use a FH, telescoping stock, etc. A mag-lock isnt something any end-user of an AR would want, but for my situation it might make sense. Much more research is in order.
Look into the "Raddlock" for your bullet button. Much better than the standard one. After you cross the border into a non-ban state, a few simple turns of a screw driver turn your bullet button onto a real live regular mag release button. A few turns back and you are ban state legal again.
BTW, I am embarrassed by and ashamed of our government that we even have to have a conversation such as this... Despicable...
Thanks bulletdog, and I hear that. I would rather not weld the poor kids barrel just for the sake of a silly pointless law if I can avoid it.
To shift gears a bit, since due to "gun fever" this turned into do it now build instead of slowly acquiring the parts, did I get my money's worth?
Novekse MUR-1A upper $215
Anderson MFG lower $125 (unusual brand but it does mate perfectly with the upper)
Vltor CASV-SX free float handguard $125
Daniel Defense Melonite 16" CHF lightweight barrel with DD BCG $485
BCM/Vltor mod 4 Charging handle $45
PSA LPK w/o trigger $55
ALG QMS trigger $45
A2 flash hider $5
(bullet button type device to be installed with a 10rd mag until I legally transfer this over to my nephew)
That puts me at $1100 even with a stock and rear sight yet to go. My current plan is to not skimp on a stock system and buis and just hold off a few months and get something to match the build (translate this as: give my wife a break from seeing various gun charges show up on the bank statement for a while)
I am leaning towards a Vltor A5 setup. I plan to use the IMOD standard stock on the shorter A5SR extension using whatever buffer weight Vltor recommends (but any advice on this choice is welcome). For a rear guis that will fit with the casv-s it seems like Troy is the correct option. (I think the magpul mbus would need to be modified.) Total cost of these parts new would be $200 for the stock system and $120 for the mbus.
That puts the build at $1420 plus whatever incidentals I need.
So which is it- am I am idiot that just overpaid for a gun, am I going to look back in a few years and wish I had bought 2 at this price, or somewhere in between?
I am no expert but I think you have a pretty good gun when you are done. If I had the extra cash I would build me another rifle part by part. It is fun for me to buy the parts a little bit along and put them together myself. Do you get a low pro gas block with your DD barrel? Who you going to get to put it together for ya? Can not wait to see the complete rifle. I would buy another DD Barrel and BCG if I was you. Those are getting hard to come by these days.
I went with a FSB. That was a very very tough call but you cant really go wrong either way I guess.
Alphaops raised the price of the DD barrel and BSG to $540 for FSB and $560 for lo pro or I think I probably would strongly consider it. If I had another lower I definitely would have yesterday before the increase.
I am going to do the build myself. It will be my first but I have the time and have a good mechanical aptitude. I will have a gunsmith give it a once over before firing.
I think it is cool you are going to assemble it together yourself. I assembledy lower when I build mine. I think assembling the gun yourself will give your great knowledge of how the gun operates. In my next build I am planning on assembling the upper. I bought my upper assembled. There are a lot of good how to assemble AR-15 videos out there too. Have fun putting her together.
midSCarolina
01-02-13, 10:15
Assembling the weapon yourself is an awesome option as long as you are fine without having much of a warranty on it. It is extremely gratifying and well worth it but I typically wait to a 2nd or 3rd built to do a complete assembly (its not complicated but there are a lot of small parts that take some figuring out).
As for the "when to say when".... this was my biggest issue as well when I first got into the AR game. Every time I had extra money to spend I would be trying to figure out what expensive ass part I can throw on my rifle bc the more expensive shit you have on it the better right? Negative... I found out that just buying the most expensive parts without having figured out how the parts will work together on your rifle is a bad idea and expensive as hell. And I did this to a bushmaster :(
What you need to do is put together a list of what you want your AR to do and then prioritize the list and put a price limit for each category. My list for accessorizing a completed rifle would be something like:
1. Glass and Back-ups
2. Rail
3. Trigger
4. Muzzle Device
5. Lights and Lasers
6. Buffer System (may be fine as is... kinda have to try it out and see what works best for you... I like running an H2 and a flat wire spring but this can vary depending on BBL and gas system)
7. Stock and grips
....ect ect
Then you need to think about where the rifle will be used and for what and the average distance you will be shooting. Go through each category and think of how things can be manipulated in that area to optimize YOUR rifle for YOUR uses. Make sure you read about what each accessory is actually used for, read reviews, and look at pictures.
It can be time consuming but getting it right the first time will save you both time and frustration long term.
Very good points indeed. The lack of warranty is something I was prepared for. I built a 318 from the block up for my daily driver truck many years ago when I was in college and was comfortable spending just about what I spent on this project with no guarantees. If this gun shoots as well as that engine ran I will be very happy;)
I hope I did a good job of picking components for the intended purpose- short to medium range target/range work, plinking, general all around ARing.
The good news is for all I have spent (and in the case of stock and buis, will spend) there is no plan to spend anything additional on accessories. I need a few tools for the build but otherwise the future expenses will be dies and reloading components (which I hear are also impossible to find).
By the way- a big kudos to ROG Tactical and Alphaops (and of course to 2nd.amendment for referring me to them). Both my ALG QMS and DD barrel/bcg/gt showed up today and in perfect condition. That was FAST.
By the way- a big kudos to ROG Tactical and Alphaops (and of course to 2nd.amendment for referring me to them). Both my ALG QMS and DD barrel/bcg/gt showed up today and in perfect condition. That was FAST.
Ouch... Alphaops just raised the price on the barrel/bcg combo by $60.
Ouch... Alphaops just raised the price on the barrel/bcg combo by $60.
That they did. Funny thing is they still had a banner rolling advertising it for $459 (the FSB version) until Monday. I noticed it right after I bought mine for $474. I emailed them a screenshot and pointed it out and they they got back to me that evening and said I was very lucky to get the $474 price, the price just went up.
I am not complaining. If I am going to pay a bit more for a BCG and barrel I would rather it be DD.
That they did. Funny thing is they still had a banner rolling advertising it for $459 (the FSB version) until Monday. I noticed it right after I bought mine for $474. I emailed them a screenshot and pointed it out and they they got back to me that evening and said I was very lucky to get the $474 price, the price just went up.
I am not complaining. If I am going to pay a bit more for a BCG and barrel I would rather it be DD.
Yeah, I'm not really complaining. Just surprised me. I was looking at it last week and all of a sudden it was more.
They have BCGs in stock and thats rare right now.
Yeah, I'm not really complaining. Just surprised me. I was looking at it last week and all of a sudden it was more.
They have BCGs in stock and thats rare right now.
Thats the funny thing- I originally pulled the trigger on this deal mostly for the good BCG, but the more I read about the barrel and consider the way it will be used (low volume shooting in the 50-250 yard range) the more I like it. The price is high, but considering I went from a $319 JP BCG that I canceled to a $474 DD BCG and barrel, for me it was actually a good deal. Fuzzy logic, I know...
Whether I would do it again at $539 is another question altogether. Not sure. Its possible, since the combo goes well with my other parts.
I just realized that in my state the bullet button type solution is not going to work. That means a pinned comp/brake and a pinned stock unless I want to push the bounds of law until I transfer the gun to a free state. The stock I can handle no problem. The IMOD is easy enough to pin. Considering that a comp CAN be beneficial if I pick the right one, I will go that route. I am concerned about making the right choice though. As I am already $1350 into this build including every part I need except for the comp, cost is pretty much irrelevant at this point.
I am leaning towards a BattleComp 1.5 since it is already drilled for pinning. It is a bit longer than a 1.0 but my thought is the ease of installation of the 1.5 makes this a good tradeoff.
Is there a better option? I am looking for a good mix of performance and noise/blast (less is better). I have already invested in an A5 stock system so if I give up some recoil reduction for a quieter comp vs a better one, I can handle that.
Thanks in advance.
Spend thousands of dollars on things you don't need. Look at it for months telling yourself, "Damn... thats a fine looking 12lb some bitch right there."
Shit looks cool, until you have to carry it around when you take a summer time class in Texas. Its all good, till you start to sweat and forgot a shemagh or a collared shirt. Suddenly that sling starts to rub your neck in that special way. The way that starts to feel really good when you get sweat on that spot and it start stinging. Now all you can think about is, "Damn, that sucks..."
So to ease the sting, you ditch the laser designator that you thought was super cool and never put it back on. Then you get home that night and think... Wow... I can switch out this CompM4 for a T1 and save a ton of weight on my neck. So you do. Then you think to yourself, Those rails on the side of my gun aren't doing anything but add weight... So you switch out the KAC for a TRX. "WOW, feels so much more nimble and my neck feels better too and I can still mount my light at 12 oclock and have no shadow from my barrel!" So you do. Badda bing! You now have a modern, lightweight and generally inexpensive poodle popper that weighs in around 7.7Lbs. Alot of people go though the "that is badass" phase and buy laser, bi pods, huge vertical grips, and all that when they first start out. They generally look down on the simple guns. Until they pick it up and realize their gun is a brick and thats why the guy at class with an MOE handguard doesn't have a sweat eagle on his chest and you do.
I didn't know you saw me at that class. :D
OP, that is a decent parts list so far. Good luck completing the build...and actually handing that over to your nephew. :p
2nd.amendment
01-06-13, 19:33
Having a muzzle device already drilled is convenient if you are going to do it yourself. On the other hand, if you have a smith do it (like ADCO), it probably wont really matter.
For the stated purpose, I would consider
-A Battle Comp, whichever version you want
-A Griffen Armament, similar to the Battle Comp for less money
http://www.skdtac.com/Griffin-Armament-M4SD-II-Tactical-Compensator-p/gfa.050.htm
-The new BCM Comp, good reviews of them and cheaper than the battle comp, not quite as cheap as the Griffen. Also, the Mod1 is predrilled (Mod0 is not out yet, but may be out soon).
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-1-5-56-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-556.htm
-There have also been some good reviews of the Z-Comp from some knowledgeable users.
Take your pick. They all seem to have pretty similar reports of being relatively less concussion for a comp and good muzzle control. Different reviews claim one or another is better, but I would put them all in the same general category.
I didn't know you saw me at that class. :D
OP, that is a decent parts list so far. Good luck completing the build...and actually handing that over to your nephew. :p
Haha no kidding. I will get to enjoy the heck out of it for a few years, and in this state the thing is neutered anyway so it might be nice to set it free and let it live out its years with an unpinned stock and real mags.
Then again, I could always finish an 80% lower for myself and pair it with this soon-to-be pinned-barrel upper, and use the next 3 years to put together another upper for him and pair it with the transferable lower. Hmm.....
And to think a month ago I didnt even think I wanted an AR at all. I am just a simple a handgun guy! These things are wildly addictive. Like I need to say that to this crowd.
And thanks 2nd.amendment. I went with the BCM Mod 1. I will mount it and try it out and then have a gunsmith pin/weld it and cut off my FSB bayonet lug while he is at it. Hopefully I wont get arrested on the way to his shop....
At long last, she is done.
Disregard the silver select and bolt release, specialized is just a bit slow in shipping and the colt ones havent come in yet. Went with the battlesight.
Shooting her tomorrow with what little ammo I could beg for and borrow. Still waiting on my .223 dies from Graf's.
Thanks again to all who provided invaluable advice. Everything fell into place nicely.
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh602/tglazie/th_P1030139_zpsc56fa2af.jpg (http://s1254.beta.photobucket.com/user/tglazie/media/P1030139_zpsc56fa2af.jpg.html)
http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh602/tglazie/th_P1030138_zps631fe050.jpg (http://s1254.beta.photobucket.com/user/tglazie/media/P1030138_zps631fe050.jpg.html)
2nd.amendment
01-24-13, 19:45
Looks good. Let us know how she shoots.
Looks like you got most of the parts just in time . . .
Looks good. Let us know how she shoots.
Looks like you got most of the parts just in time . . .
just in time is right... i'm scrambling to find a lower parts kit for my noveske chainsaw project
yeah it was a scramble for sure. I ended up with a lot of spares but thats fine, I want to get the 2nd lower done and transfer it to my brother in law ASAP before the curtain closes on ARs in my state.
Palmetto has had LPKs in stock off and on the last day or two. They are w/o FCG but you should be able to get an ALG QMS still.
Or you could do what I did and get the pins from KNS directly, the springs and a few roll pins from ebay, the FCG from rogtac and the grip/guard from Brownells
It will be a windy 28 degrees for a high here tomorrow and all I have to shoot is 20 American Eagle 50-grainers (in a 1:7 twist barrel no less) so I dont think I will get to see how it can really shoot until my dies come in and the weather warms up a tad. But I will know if it functions properly or not at least. That will be a huge relief.
Oh and to the original title of this thread- I say When!
Man was this an expensive build. But in the end I will have as good an AR as I will ever need (of course that would have been true if I had made an el cheapo) and my nephew will get a pre-ban AR platform (assuming there even is an eventual ban) in the future to build out any way he likes in any caliber he wants.
And have something fun to load for and use on the rifle range besides my old .32 Special.
What a great read. Congrats on the build. He should be quite happy..
Here is the first time shooting update I posted in another related thread. https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1521591&postcount=98
Money well spent.
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