LA Gun Buyback event....Yields 2 "Rocket Launchers"

[Whiskey_Bravo]

http://ktla.com/2012/12/28/l-a-s-gun-buyback-nets-2037-firearms/

It's in the title, and there is a brief viewing on them on the video. I call absolute bullshit on this. I can only imagine that the outcry would be far higher if they where real. The mayor didn't even mention it during his press conference, but they are being displayed at the table of all of the weapons turned in.

WTF?

[Sensei]

They held up an AT-4 which was likely just the spent, inert tube without the projectile. Although harmless, it is still classified as a destructive device under CA law and a felony to possess.

[SPQR476]

Saw pics of it. At least one says "TRAINER", so it's likely a completely inert tube that was never live. At best, maybe it fires 9mm spotter rounds.

The break-open single shots on the table were more dangerous. Maybe even the blank firing starter pistols I saw in the footage if it's purely a totally inert handling trainer.

[Honu]

I have no doubt our gov will start putting in some guns of their own into buy backs so they can have their proof dangerous full auto and other things are out there and they need to remove them

what they did with F&F is proof they will do whatever it takes to get their agenda through !

[Business_Casual]

I have no doubt our gov will start putting in some guns of their own into buy backs so they can have their proof dangerous full auto and other things are out there and they need to remove them

what they did with F&F is proof they will do whatever it takes to get their agenda through !

Don't you know that if you keep saying sensible things, you will be told that your tin-foil is too tight and other 1st Amendment-friendly things?

bc

[Alaskapopo]

Don't you know that if you keep saying sensible things, you will be told that your tin-foil is too tight and other 1st Amendment-friendly things?

bc

Sensible huh no quite and yes that comment does deserve the tin foil hat award. We have enough problems as gun owners we don't need the fringe tin foil hat types making us all look like a bunch of idiots and nut jobs.
Pat

[bondmid003]

Saw pics of it. At least one says "TRAINER", so it's likely a completely inert tube that was never live. At best, maybe it fires 9mm spotter rounds.

The break-open single shots on the table were more dangerous. Maybe even the blank firing starter pistols I saw in the footage if it's purely a totally inert handling trainer.

It was a trainer and it is not illegal to own an at4 tube

[currahee]

Saw pics of it. At least one says "TRAINER", so it's likely a completely inert tube that was never live. At best, maybe it fires 9mm spotter rounds.

The break-open single shots on the table were more dangerous. Maybe even the blank firing starter pistols I saw in the footage if it's purely a totally inert handling trainer.

I would LOVE to have an AT4 subcaliber. That would make an awesome 3 gun prop.

[feedramp]

Villaraigosa said the LAPD collected 901 handguns, 698 rifles and 363 shotguns. The weapons will be melted down and formed into the shape of a giant cocknballs.
The pink portion does not appear in the original article.

[brushy bill]

Sensible huh no quite and yes that comment does deserve the tin foil hat award. We have enough problems as gun owners we don't need the fringe tin foil hat types making us all look like a bunch of idiots and nut jobs.
Pat

I dunno know Pat...doesn't sound too fringe to me...for example, look at the guns photographed on the below link. I kinda doubt folks really turned these in for $50 to $100...these events are notoriously ineffective.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/27/16178236-guns-flood-into-police-buyback-programs-though-critics-have-doubts-about-the-idea?lite=

[mskdgunman]

The Sheriff's Office here recovered a British PIAT launcher during a dope warrant a year or so ago and made a big deal out of the fact they had seized an anti tank rocket launcher. Granted the guy who had it was a shitbag but it's not illegal to own one. I can't even find it classified as a firearm. It's a big spring gun and it's not like he had any PIAT ammunition to go with it. I found one for sale on for about $3500 not long after that from some on line distributor. Anything for a headline and dramatic impact. The truth really doesn't matter. I would love to know where the guy got it from though. It probably got melted down which pisses me off with unique items like that.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Sensible huh no quite and yes that comment does deserve the tin foil hat award. We have enough problems as gun owners we don't need the fringe tin foil hat types making us all look like a bunch of idiots and nut jobs.
Pat

:stop:

Um yeah okay cause we all know F&F was all tin foil and black helicopters . . .

[Alaskapopo]

I dunno know Pat...doesn't sound too fringe to me...for example, look at the guns photographed on the below link. I kinda doubt folks really turned these in for $50 to $100...these events are notoriously ineffective.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/27/16178236-guns-flood-into-police-buyback-programs-though-critics-have-doubts-about-the-idea?lite=

I am not saying I support buy backs nor do I think they are effective. My point is it is tin foil hat thinking to believe the cops are putting guns on the table from the armory.

[Alaskapopo]

:stop:

Um yeah okay cause we all know F&F was all tin foil and black helicopters . . .

That was not a gun buy back now was it?
Pat

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I am not saying I support buy backs nor do I think they are effective. My point is it is tin foil hat thinking to believe the cops are putting guns on the table from the armory.

People and organizations do things a lot worse than that to justify their cause/position/job/etc.

[Alaskapopo]

People and organizations do things a lot worse than that to justify their cause/position/job/etc.

Cops in LA do not have to justify their jobs as there is plenty of crime to go around. While gun buy backs don't work those sponsoring them are generally well intentioned just ignorant.
Pat

[Heidevolk]

It would be pretty funny to buy inert tubes wholesale (if legal) and exchange them at "gun buybacks" for a profit.

[Irish]

My point is it is tin foil hat thinking to believe the cops are putting guns on the table from the armory.

Why? You don't think there are plenty of anti-gun cops in CA and this wouldn't help with their own personal agendas?

That's like saying it'd be a "tinfoil hat" conspiracy to believe cops in elite special operations units could break into people's houses without warrants, steal hundreds of thousands of dollars AND put out a hit on another cop. That's just impossible to believe (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5036202-418/ex-chicago-cop-pleads-guilty-in-murder-for-hire-scheme.html).

Or how about cops going to prison (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Former-Miami-Dade-Cop-Miami-Firefighter-Sentenced-in-Drug-Trafficking-Case-184246411.html) for drug trafficking kilos of cocaine. That'd be really "tinfoil hat" type stuff too.

I only read those 2 today and that's why I thought of them... Plenty of other examples of things cops would NEVER do happening all the time.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Here is a question for you all, every time a liberal city stages one of these "guns for basketball shoes, food stamps, cash, et al.” why are there always the usual rusted pawn shop fair in trash cans then a table of pristine Tec-9s, MAC-10s, Uzis and other "illegal assault pistols". I'm a gun guy; I go to a lot of shows/shops and can't say I've seen any of those "assault pistols" since the early 90's in any quantity.

I smell propaganda bovine feces.

[Honu]

Sensible huh no quite and yes that comment does deserve the tin foil hat award. We have enough problems as gun owners we don't need the fringe tin foil hat types making us all look like a bunch of idiots and nut jobs.
Pat

yeah sorry not a fringe tin foil hat wearing person !
I am a hard working business person that has pretty much worked for myself my whole life and done very well at it !


many think F&F was a plan to try to make us gun folks look bad
and either way the outcome is even more proof to not trust this administration !

I know in your eyes F&F is tin foil hat wearing territory and it was the bad business people and the cartels and nothing to do with the current administration after all the gov would never do anything like that !

same thing as Benghazi cover up
sure in your eyes the current admins explanation is OK with you !

even when Obama first became president he put that gun control and banning guns was on his priority list on the white house gov site
well seems it caused to much controversy so they quickly took it down then he goes out and says he is pro 2nd to try to cover things up



Cops in LA do not have to justify their jobs as there is plenty of crime to go around. While gun buy backs don't work those sponsoring them are generally well intentioned just ignorant.
Pat

I never said cops had to justify anything and also never said it would be cops doing it ! I said our gov !

HUGE difference !

I know you think you are clever twisting words and stuff around but to me thats like watching my 4 year old thinking he is being clever


sorry to tell you but the gov does do things here and abroad and putting a few guns on the table is nothing to them

[Alaskapopo]

Why? You don't think there are plenty of anti-gun cops in CA and this wouldn't help with their own personal agendas?

That's like saying it'd be a "tinfoil hat" conspiracy to believe cops in elite special operations units could break into people's houses without warrants, steal hundreds of thousands of dollars AND put out a hit on another cop. That's just impossible to believe (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5036202-418/ex-chicago-cop-pleads-guilty-in-murder-for-hire-scheme.html).

Or how about cops going to prison (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Former-Miami-Dade-Cop-Miami-Firefighter-Sentenced-in-Drug-Trafficking-Case-184246411.html) for drug trafficking kilos of cocaine. That'd be really "tinfoil hat" type stuff too.

I only read those 2 today and that's why I thought of them... Plenty of other examples of things cops would NEVER do happening all the time.


Really you're painting all cops with the actions of a very few. Yes thinking that police departments or local goverments are putting guns on the table to make it look good is very tin foil hat like. And again the tin foil hat crowd is doing more to hurt us than help us. Us being gun owners.
Pat

[SteyrAUG]

:rolleyes:

Really your painting all cops with the actions of a very few. Yes thinking that police departments or local goverments are putting guns on the table to make it look good is very tin foil hat like. And again the tin foil hat crowd is doing more to hurt us than help us. Us being gun owners.
Pat

Certainly not "all cops" but I can think of a few departments I wouldn't put it past. NOLAPD, LAPD, CPD and NYPD come to mind.

I have many friends in the BSO and quite a few of them are pro gun, but that didn't prevent Ken Jenne from making a commercial of his deputies firing fully automatic AK-47s and M-16s at cinder blocks in 2004 and making the claim that "these are the kinds of guns they want to make legal for anyone to purchase" when the ban was about to sunset.

Problem is most "cops" don't even get a say in the matter. Usually such things are at the discretion of a single individual. Often that individual is an elected official who was never a LEO in his entire life as was the case with Ken Jenne.

Criminals know damn well they can sell semi automatic Uzis, ARs and AK47s for a LOT more than a couple hundred bucks so they rarely find their way to gun buyback programs. Their select fire unregistered cousins are even more valuable to criminals. So when I see a table full of that stuff on the news following a "buy back" program I am usually extremely suspicious.

I've seen genuine buy back programs and the typical fare is Mossberg cruisers, shit grade .25 and .32 automatics, extremely antique (sometimes rare) revolvers, coach shotguns and single break shotguns and the occasional air rifle mistaken for an actual firearm.

[Belmont31R]

Displaying guns on tables is for one reason; shock value.


Otherwise why do it?


I simply think a lot of LEO's simply don't know better, and weren't gun people like us before they became officers, and dealing with the criminal element all day for years probably jades their perception. Of course people look up to LE, and trust their judgement when the truth is many LEO's simply don't know the laws and have a personal stake in 'getting guns out of the hands of criminals'.

OIF vets can attest to this perception, and we were informed/told the Iraqi's could have one AK per household, and don't be surprised or engage a guy because he has an AK. They actually have to point it at you or act in a threatening manner. So if Iraqi's can open carry a FA AK47, and we cannot...well I simply think domestic LE needs to quit acting like every armed person is out to get them, and while I certainly understand their desire to go home every night they need to understand we have a Constitutional right to be armed, which is in the BOR, and be able to distinguish between real threats and Joe Citizen who happens to be a firearms owner/enthusiast.

So as I said the table full of guns and over-reactions aren't there for anything other than showcasing how many 'evil' guns they got off the 'streets' which insinuates ownership of firearms is inherently a bad thing. Certainly not all LE departments do this or hold highly public gun buybacks but LAPD will certainly get national attention.

[Alaskapopo]

Displaying guns on tables is for one reason; shock value.


Otherwise why do it?


I simply think a lot of LEO's simply don't know better, and weren't gun people like us before they became officers, and dealing with the criminal element all day for years probably jades their perception. Of course people look up to LE, and trust their judgement when the truth is many LEO's simply don't know the laws and have a personal stake in 'getting guns out of the hands of criminals'.

OIF vets can attest to this perception, and we were informed/told the Iraqi's could have one AK per household, and don't be surprised or engage a guy because he has an AK. They actually have to point it at you or act in a threatening manner. So if Iraqi's can open carry a FA AK47, and we cannot...well I simply think domestic LE needs to quit acting like every armed person is out to get them, and while I certainly understand their desire to go home every night they need to understand we have a Constitutional right to be armed, which is in the BOR, and be able to distinguish between real threats and Joe Citizen who happens to be a firearms owner/enthusiast.

So as I said the table full of guns and over-reactions aren't there for anything other than showcasing how many 'evil' guns they got off the 'streets' which insinuates ownership of firearms is inherently a bad thing. Certainly not all LE departments do this or hold highly public gun buybacks but LAPD will certainly get national attention.

In light of the fact the last few years have been very bad for violent deaths of LEO's. If your not treating everyone like a possible threat you have a much higher chance of not going home at the end of the night.(treat everyone with respect but have a plan to kill them if they should decide to kill you.) This is not the time to let our guard down. Over the same weekend as the Sandy Hook shooter 4 police officers were killed in shoot outs. As for sorting out real threats from Joe Citizen unfortunately bad guys don't wear signs around the neck.
Pat

[Belmont31R]

In light of the fact the last few years have been very bad for violent deaths of LEO's. If your not treating everyone like a possible threat you have a much higher chance of not going home at the end of the night.(treat everyone with respect but have a plan to kill them if they should decide to kill you.) This is not the time to let our guard down. Over the same weekend as the Sandy Hook shooter 4 police officers were killed in shoot outs. As for sorting out real threats from Joe Citizen unfortunately bad guys don't wear signs around the neck.
Pat


I didn't say anything about LEO's not being prepared or having a lackadaisical attitude...just that treating EVERYONE like a criminal isn't something I think promotes a positive relationship between LE and the vast majority of people which are not out to harm any LEO's at all.

My greater point, with respect to this thread, is that the displaying of guns out on tables, and having a full press photo shoot of them is to paint firearms in a bad light. I don't think that's respectful to a right which is contained within the BOR, and further I think LE is generally ignorant of firearms and firearms law in general. Not every department, and not every officer but as I said the more high profile departments like the LAPD tend to get more press coverage than the vast majority of other departments. These large metro departments tend to have an anti-gun streak, and don't support personal firearms ownership.

I can give you a good example, and that is Austin PD vs. the county where I live. Basically night and day. The Austin PD Cheif is a California transplant, and very anti-gun. He worked to get the gun shows that used to be held here banned by pressuring the venue owner to not allow the organization that put on the shows to to rent the place out anymore. We have shows again but they had to find a new venue.

There's nothing wrong or anti-LEO about pointing out that not all departments or at least police chief's don't have the typical AR15 owners view on guns. :cool:

[Irish]

Really you're painting all cops with the actions of a very few. Yes thinking that police departments or local goverments are putting guns on the table to make it look good is very tin foil hat like. And again the tin foil hat crowd is doing more to hurt us than help us. Us being gun owners.
Pat

Meh, ya never know. My intention isn't to paint all police with the actions of a few, these examples aren't anomalies either, yet I believe most police are good dudes. It's simply to point out that you don't know who's pulling whose strings and who's just obeying orders. Police Chiefs are notoriously anti-gun and I'm sure they and local politicians could apply enough pressure to get things done that fit their agenda.

[7 RING]

The only problem I have with gun buy back programs is they are always too far to drive. I have two guns that are ready for the scrap bin that I would like to sell, but I don't want to spend more in gas money than I will be paid for my junkers.

[Alaskapopo]

Meh, ya never know. My intention isn't to paint all police with the actions of a few, these examples aren't anomalies either, yet I believe most police are good dudes. It's simply to point out that you don't know who's pulling whose strings and who's just obeying orders. Police Chiefs are notoriously anti-gun and I'm sure they and local politicians could apply enough pressure to get things done that fit their agenda.

Point taken on there being anti gun police chiefs. My point is honesty is still big in my profession. IF you get disiplined for lying your career is over because they can use that in court at any case you handle. Putting guns on a table to make it look better is dishonest and I have a hard time believing chiefs would do that.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

I didn't say anything about LEO's not being prepared or having a lackadaisical attitude...just that treating EVERYONE like a criminal isn't something I think promotes a positive relationship between LE and the vast majority of people which are not out to harm any LEO's at all.

My greater point, with respect to this thread, is that the displaying of guns out on tables, and having a full press photo shoot of them is to paint firearms in a bad light. I don't think that's respectful to a right which is contained within the BOR, and further I think LE is generally ignorant of firearms and firearms law in general. Not every department, and not every officer but as I said the more high profile departments like the LAPD tend to get more press coverage than the vast majority of other departments. These large metro departments tend to have an anti-gun streak, and don't support personal firearms ownership.

I can give you a good example, and that is Austin PD vs. the county where I live. Basically night and day. The Austin PD Cheif is a California transplant, and very anti-gun. He worked to get the gun shows that used to be held here banned by pressuring the venue owner to not allow the organization that put on the shows to to rent the place out anymore. We have shows again but they had to find a new venue.

There's nothing wrong or anti-LEO about pointing out that not all departments or at least police chief's don't have the typical AR15 owners view on guns. :cool:

Glad I don't work for an anti gun chief as I would not last long. My main point was that some people get offended when we use good officer safety. The point being is we don't know who is and who is not the bad guy on every traffic stop or ever contact. Until I know better I am going to be cautious.
Pat

[SteyrAUG]

In light of the fact the last few years have been very bad for violent deaths of LEO's. If your not treating everyone like a possible threat you have a much higher chance of not going home at the end of the night.(treat everyone with respect but have a plan to kill them if they should decide to kill you.) This is not the time to let our guard down. Over the same weekend as the Sandy Hook shooter 4 police officers were killed in shoot outs. As for sorting out real threats from Joe Citizen unfortunately bad guys don't wear signs around the neck.
Pat

It hasn't been a great year for regular "non LEO" folks either. So we'd just like to ask you to keep in mind that not everyone with a gun is a "bad guy." We fully understand you don't wish to be shot any more than we do.

Conversely we sometimes deal with fake cop "home invaders", does that mean we treat everyone in a police jacket as a "possible threat" because it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys?

Perhaps we should just accept that a lot of people are armed and some of them are bad, some of them are good and the same is true of cops and deal with it accordingly.

And I swear I could make a ton of money with a custom line of "I'm The Homeowner - DON'T SHOOT ME!" t shirts and bathrobes.

[SteyrAUG]

Point taken on there being anti gun police chiefs. My point is honesty is still big in my profession. IF you get disiplined for lying your career is over because they can use that in court at any case you handle. Putting guns on a table to make it look better is dishonest and I have a hard time believing chiefs would do that.
Pat

I've seen worse.

We had a very famous incident of a CLEO making crack for the dual purpose of having product for UC officers to sell and for display on the confiscation table.

[Belmont31R]

Glad I don't work for an anti gun chief as I would not last long. My main point was that some people get offended when we use good officer safety. The point being is we don't know who is and who is not the bad guy on every traffic stop or ever contact. Until I know better I am going to be cautious.
Pat



Nothing wrong with officer safety up to the point people are unnecessarily rude to good people or act like Judge Dredd because they have a badge.

There's certainly a line that cannot be cross when it comes to our right's but also common courtesy I would be expect everyone to exert. Just like a small fraction of citizens are scumbags there is a small fraction or LEO who are scumbags. As as vet I can say a small portion of military members are scumbags. That doesn't give LEO the 'right' to treat every citizen like a scumbag, and Im sure you guys would not want us to treat you guys like every LEO is a scumbag.

At the end of the day, while we all want to go home, you can't forget most people out there are all mostly on the same page, and no need to just assume everyone is out to get you. I'd be pretty pissed off to get treated worse by our domestic LE than we did with an Iraqi with a slung AK walking around Baghdad.

[Alaskapopo]

It hasn't been a great year for regular "non LEO" folks either. So we'd just like to ask you to keep in mind that not everyone with a gun is a "bad guy." We fully understand you don't wish to be shot any more than we do.

Conversely we sometimes deal with fake cop "home invaders", does that mean we treat everyone in a police jacket as a "possible threat" because it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys?

Perhaps we should just accept that a lot of people are armed and some of them are bad, some of them are good and the same is true of cops and deal with it accordingly.

And I swear I could make a ton of money with a custom line of "I'm The Homeowner - DON'T SHOOT ME!" t shirts and bathrobes.

With respect crime including violent crime has gone down while officer assualts and deaths the last 3 years running have gone up. So it was a worse year for cops than regular folks. I blame it on faultering budgets which means less training for offices, lay off of officers so more are working alone with out back up and of course people see us as the government and any frustrations they have get vented on us.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Nothing wrong with officer safety up to the point people are unnecessarily rude to good people or act like Judge Dredd because they have a badge.

There's certainly a line that cannot be cross when it comes to our right's but also common courtesy I would be expect everyone to exert. Just like a small fraction of citizens are scumbags there is a small fraction or LEO who are scumbags. As as vet I can say a small portion of military members are scumbags. That doesn't give LEO the 'right' to treat every citizen like a scumbag, and Im sure you guys would not want us to treat you guys like every LEO is a scumbag.

At the end of the day, while we all want to go home, you can't forget most people out there are all mostly on the same page, and no need to just assume everyone is out to get you. I'd be pretty pissed off to get treated worse by our domestic LE than we did with an Iraqi with a slung AK walking around Baghdad.

I agree be polite and profesisonal but be safe. I work in a small town and I usually work alone at least half of my 10 hour shift so I would prefer if I get in a bar fight that people would maybe give me a hand rather than join in with the other guy. Treating people with respect even when you have to arrest them or take other enforcement action is always the way to act.
Pat

[Belmont31R]

I agree be polite and profesisonal but be safe. I work in a small town and I usually work alone at least half of my 10 hour shift so I would prefer if I get in a bar fight that people would maybe give me a hand rather than join in with the other guy. Treating people with respect even when you have to arrest them or take other enforcement action is always the way to act.
Pat



Thank you.

Looks like my city is getting a California transplant for a police chief, and he was an Assistant Chief in Austin....:rolleyes:

Also just read my city is getting sued over this incident (relating to LE not knowing firearms laws and how gun owners are treated by some):


The plaintiff, listed in the lawsuit as J. Rethaber and in his 60s, was carrying a legally concealed handgun during the incident.

According to the lawsuit, Rethaber stopped at the Quix convenience store on North Bell Boulevard on Dec. 19, 2010, when he noticed someone having car trouble. He offered to help the man change his battery when one of the Cedar Park police officers approached him, pulled his left arm behind his back and lifted it to his head, the lawsuit stated. Rethaber immediately felt a pop and pain in his left shoulder, according to the lawsuit, and told the officer he was in pain.

The officer told Rethaber he had committed a crime by having a firearm on the premises, according to the lawsuit. But the lawsuit stated that Cedar Park Police Chief Henry Fluck contacted Rethaber a day after the incident to confirm Rethaber had a right to carry the handgun and that the officers’ actions were improper.


http://cplstatesman.com/2012/12/20/man-suing-cedar-park-officers-over-alleged-excessive-force/

[SteyrAUG]

With respect crime including violent crime has gone down while officer assualts and deaths the last 3 years running have gone up. So it was a worse year for cops than regular folks. I blame it on faultering budgets which means less training for offices, lay off of officers so more are working alone with out back up and of course people see us as the government and any frustrations they have get vented on us.
Pat

You could also compare the numbers of ACTUAL violent crimes against non LEOs vs. LEOs and come to the exact opposite conclusion.

More importantly, non LEOs are typically a much greater risk. When was the last time a LEO was subject to a home invasion where everyone was tied up, robbed, raped and then killed when the house was set on fire?

It's not my intent to be disrespectful or to trivialize the risks inherent to being a LEO. Obviously every person, armed or unarmed can be a "possible threat" because that is the world we live in. I just don't wish to be put in a higher risk factor because I am lawfully armed any more than you want to be put at greater risk given your occupation.

I'm probably being idealistic again but I wish a person having a gun was of no greater significance to LEOs than a person having a vehicle. Probably comes from growing up at a time and place when a cop was more likely to compliment your 1911 than feel threatened by it.

[Alaskapopo]

You could also compare the numbers of ACTUAL violent crimes against non LEOs vs. LEOs and come to the exact opposite conclusion.

More importantly, non LEOs are typically a much greater risk. When was the last time a LEO was subject to a home invasion where everyone was tied up, robbed, raped and then killed when the house was set on fire?

It's not my intent to be disrespectful or to trivialize the risks inherent to being a LEO. Obviously every person, armed or unarmed can be a "possible threat" because that is the world we live in. I just don't wish to be put in a higher risk factor because I am lawfully armed any more than you want to be put at greater risk given your occupation.

I'm probably being idealistic again but I wish a person having a gun was of no greater significance to LEOs than a person having a vehicle. Probably comes from growing up at a time and place when a cop was more likely to compliment your 1911 than feel threatened by it.

HOme invasions on LEO's are rare because we have guns and people know it and we are not rich so there is not going to be much for the crooks to take. So the riskt o reward ratio is low. Our job does make us targets however. People have set up ambushes to kill cops something that a normal citizen is not subject to because they don't have to answer the calls for service. I would personally like to see more good armed citizens out there. Unfortunately most of the population is sheepish.
Pat

[SteyrAUG]

HOme invasions on LEO's are rare because we have guns and people know it and we are not rich so there is not going to be much for the crooks to take. So the riskt o reward ratio is low. Our job does make us targets however. People have set up ambushes to kill cops something that a normal citizen is not subject to because they don't have to answer the calls for service. I would personally like to see more good armed citizens out there. Unfortunately most of the population is sheepish.
Pat


Rather than continue to refine and define this discussion, I think I'll just recognize that we are probably a lot closer in opinion than our posts suggest.

I guess all I'm asking is for you to consider that there are probably more "good armed citizens out there" than you may realize and they just want the benefit of the doubt. Now obviously it is completely reasonable for you to make sure YOU are safe in the course of doing so.

It just pains me to see any kind of divide between regular folks and LEOs, and I know there are plenty of cop bashers who contribute to that divide as well, because that isn't how it's supposed to be and that isn't how I grew up. I remember when LEOs were treated more or less like firefighters and paramedics.

[Alaskapopo]

Rather than continue to refine and define this discussion, I think I'll just recognize that we are probably a lot closer in opinion than our posts suggest.

I guess all I'm asking is for you to consider that there are probably more "good armed citizens out there" than you may realize and they just want the benefit of the doubt. Now obviously it is completely reasonable for you to make sure YOU are safe in the course of doing so.

It just pains me to see any kind of divide between regular folks and LEOs, and I know there are plenty of cop bashers who contribute to that divide as well, because that isn't how it's supposed to be and that isn't how I grew up. I remember when LEOs were treated more or less like firefighters and paramedics.

Like I said I like having good armed citizens out there. Stay safe down there.
Pat

[Spiffums]

Why? You don't think there are plenty of anti-gun cops in CA and this wouldn't help with their own personal agendas?

That's like saying it'd be a "tinfoil hat" conspiracy to believe cops in elite special operations units could break into people's houses without warrants, steal hundreds of thousands of dollars AND put out a hit on another cop. That's just impossible to believe (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5036202-418/ex-chicago-cop-pleads-guilty-in-murder-for-hire-scheme.html).

Or how about cops going to prison (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Former-Miami-Dade-Cop-Miami-Firefighter-Sentenced-in-Drug-Trafficking-Case-184246411.html) for drug trafficking kilos of cocaine. That'd be really "tinfoil hat" type stuff too.

I only read those 2 today and that's why I thought of them... Plenty of other examples of things cops would NEVER do happening all the time.

Training Day, Street Kings, The Shield.........

[ForTehNguyen]

that AT4 tube is like the police buying back empty brass casings and maybe the box they came in. They got bamboozled on that deal if they were expecting a working piece.

[Safetyhit]

that AT4 tube is like the police buying back empty brass casings and maybe the box they came in. They got bamboozled on that deal if they were expecting a working piece.


They can be purchased legally in a local army navy store here I know of. And this is NJ.

But it provides a sound reason to ban anti-tank missiles I suppose. Oh, wait...