View Full Version : Gun Control Tramples On The Certain Virtues Of A Heavily Armed Citizenry
Nevermind, let's whine about social security instead.
That is possibly the best written piece I've read to date concerning armed citizenry.
I suppose that my interest in all this is that people are unwilling to discuss the elephant in the china shop that stands behind this statement in the article:
A people cannot simultaneously live free and be bound to any human master or man-made institution, especially to politicians, judges, bureaucrats and faceless government agencies. The Second Amendment along with the other nine amendments of the Bill of Rights was designed to prevent individuals’ enslavement to government...
The elephant that I'm talking about is the fact that over 50% of our population is already bound to the faceless government agencies tighter than any slave's chains. Rather than the hard oppression of tyranny, this is the soft oppression of government dependence with half of our population wedded to federal programs such as Medicare, Social Security, public housing, student loans, etc.
Well, here it is folks: The Founders would have NEVER approved of an armed society and included a right to bear arms in the Constitution had they known that 50% of the population was going to be latched so tightly to the federal government tit. Take a look at the writings between Jeffereson, Madison, et al after 1800. They frequently mention that a well disciplined militia entailed regular military training for all able bodied males, and the formation of a citizen-soldier state to replace standing armies in a manner similar to Ancient Greece. Sorry folks, we now look more like France circa 1789 than anything remotely resembling antiquity.
So rather that voting yea vs. nay only on the 2nd Amendment, I say that we must simultaneously decide if we are going to continue down the road of a nanny state. That is because a nanny state is fundamentally incompatible with an armed society. Now, when forced to decide between their guns and any of the various government-run Ponzi schemes that American's enjoy, which do you think most will choose?
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 00:53
That's why I've been advocating on here for a long time to get rid of THOSE programs, and we have members on here who whine that they paid into it so they are going to get it.
Unfortunately the Republicans are just as much into those programs as the Democrats. When Medicare Part D was passed by the Republicans the debate was not to pass it all but the Democrats complained the program didn't go far enough, and if you take inflation into account Part D was projected, at the time of passage, to be only slightly less expensive than Obamacare over a 10 year period.
Our country is ****ed, and what your point is is that our Founders made the Constitution for people who deserved it, and could handle it. Well over time we proved we cannot, and thus we will go the way of the rest of the world in living with an powerful central government who treats its citizens like a resource and has complete control over them.
Our system is not fail proof, and the people are the 4th check and balance. If we handicap ourselves to the point of reliance OR an inability to be that 4th check then we reap what we sow, and are at the mercy of others. What happened in the 1770's was an anomaly, and something that usually goes the other way. We were given the greatest gift in human history, and threw it away.
That's why I've been advocating on here for a long time to get rid of THOSE programs, and we have members on here who whine that they paid into it so they are going to get it.
Unfortunately the Republicans are just as much into those programs as the Democrats. When Medicare Part D was passed by the Republicans the debate was not to pass it all but the Democrats complained the program didn't go far enough, and if you take inflation into account Part D was projected, at the time of passage, to be only slightly less expensive than Obamacare over a 10 year period.
Our country is ****ed, and what your point is is that our Founders made the Constitution for people who deserved it, and could handle it. Well over time we proved we cannot, and thus we will go the way of the rest of the world in living with an powerful central government who treats its citizens like a resource and has complete control over them.
Our system is not fail proof, and the people are the 4th check and balance. If we handicap ourselves to the point of reliance OR an inability to be that 4th check then we reap what we sow, and are at the mercy of others. What happened in the 1770's was an anomaly, and something that usually goes the other way. We were given the greatest gift in human history, and threw it away.
I very much like that last paragraph. Well done.
That's why I've been advocating on here for a long time to get rid of THOSE programs, and we have members on here who whine that they paid into it so they are going to get it.
Unfortunately the Republicans are just as much into those programs as the Democrats. When Medicare Part D was passed by the Republicans the debate was not to pass it all but the Democrats complained the program didn't go far enough, and if you take inflation into account Part D was projected, at the time of passage, to be only slightly less expensive than Obamacare over a 10 year period.
Our country is ****ed, and what your point is is that our Founders made the Constitution for people who deserved it, and could handle it. Well over time we proved we cannot, and thus we will go the way of the rest of the world in living with an powerful central government who treats its citizens like a resource and has complete control over them.
Our system is not fail proof, and the people are the 4th check and balance. If we handicap ourselves to the point of reliance OR an inability to be that 4th check then we reap what we sow, and are at the mercy of others. What happened in the 1770's was an anomaly, and something that usually goes the other way. We were given the greatest gift in human history, and threw it away.
I don't consider it a "whine" to insist that I get a return on something I was legally obligated to pay into for the past 40 years, all the while being promised a retirement benefit from it. It is a condition of employment, or earning income. I was not given a choice. If I had found a way to circumvent paying into social security it most certainly would have been illegal and I would be in prison.
Let's suppose that my union decided not to give me a pension on the 100's of thousands of dollars I've paid into that fund over the years. That was also a condition of employment, I couldn't opt out of it. I suppose if I got ****ed out of that and didn't like it I would also be whining.
I'm guessing that if you bought an expensive rifle off of the EE and paid for it, then it didn't show up you'd bitch to high heaven. Difference is you had a choice whether to buy the rifle or not.
How long have you paid into social security?
I know what a ****ing whine sounds like, it comes from all of your posts advocating ****ing people out of their social security.
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 08:21
I don't consider it a "whine" to insist that I get a return on something I was legally obligated to pay into for the past 40 years, all the while being promised a retirement benefit from it. It is a condition of employment, or earning income. I was not given a choice. If I had found a way to circumvent paying into social security it most certainly would have been illegal and I would be in prison.
Let's suppose that my union decided not to give me a pension on the 100's of thousands of dollars I've paid into that fund over the years. That was also a condition of employment, I couldn't opt out of it. I suppose if I got ****ed out of that and didn't like it I would also be whining.
I'm guessing that if you bought an expensive rifle off of the EE and paid for it, then it didn't show up you'd bitch to high heaven. Difference is you had a choice whether to buy the rifle or not.
How long have you paid into social security?
I know what a ****ing whine sounds like, it comes from all of your posts advocating ****ing people out of their social security.
Then you don't know how SS works. The money you paid isn't going into a fund with your name it. The money you paid went to the people who were getting benefits at the time. The money the gov gets on SS taxes goes out the door within a month.
And because you paid a tax your entire life...it can never be repealed because then you wouldn't get your's, and thus rape another generation of their income? So because a wrong was committed...it can never be stopped because its not fair you had to pay a tax and people in the future might not have to? In that case we could never get rid of any onerous law or tax because its not fair to you that you had to live with it but future generations don't have to? Hell let's bring back slavery in the South because it's not fair to the past slaves today's blacks aren't chained up! (<--sarcasm)
No it's not like buying a rifle off the EE. Like I said the taxes you paid went into other people's pockets. Now...you want other people to be legally robbed to take money out their checks to give to you? Maybe we shouldn't try to get the NFA repealed because people have been paying NFA taxes since 1934....:rolleyes:
Let me guess...you voted multiple times in your life for people who supported the SS program? Is that right? I'll keep voting for people who want to repeal it, and get you people off the gov tit. Not my fault you paid taxes on it your entire life...but doesn't mean I want you in my wallet.
JBecker 72
12-29-12, 08:36
LOL, social security is a government run Ponzi scheme.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Then you don't know how SS works. The money you paid isn't going into a fund with your name it. The money you paid went to the people who were getting benefits at the time. The money the gov gets on SS taxes goes out the door within a month.
And because you paid a tax your entire life...it can never be repealed because then you wouldn't get your's, and thus rape another generation of their income? So because a wrong was committed...it can never be stopped because its not fair you had to pay a tax and people in the future might not have to? In that case we could never get rid of any onerous law or tax because its not fair to you that you had to live with it but future generations don't have to? Hell let's bring back slavery in the South because it's not fair to the past slaves today's blacks aren't chained up! (<--sarcasm)
No it's not like buying a rifle off the EE. Like I said the taxes you paid went into other people's pockets. Now...you want other people to be legally robbed to take money out their checks to give to you? Maybe we shouldn't try to get the NFA repealed because people have been paying NFA taxes since 1934....:rolleyes:
Let me guess...you voted multiple times in your life for people who supported the SS program? Is that right? I'll keep voting for people who want to repeal it, and get you people off the gov tit. Not my fault you paid taxes on it your entire life...but doesn't mean I want you in my wallet.
So it's ok to **** me and others like me because you feel like you're being ****ed.
You guess wrong, not surprising.
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 08:44
So it's ok to **** me and others like me because you feel like you're being ****ed.
You guess wrong, not surprising.
Me wanting to keep you out of my wallet is wrong?
polymorpheous
12-29-12, 09:10
I'm sorry.
Is this a thread about social security or a very well written piece on gun control?
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 09:22
I'm sorry.
Is this a thread about social security or a very well written piece on gun control?
The author is tying in our dependency on government into firearms laws and how society works.
SS is one of those dependency things.
A people cannot simultaneously live free and be bound to any human master or man-made institution, especially to politicians, judges, bureaucrats and faceless government agencies.
On the first page of this very thread we see how government dependence fosters a sense of entitlement. Now, add in 300 million guns and you have a situation where a significant number of people would take up arms to perpetuate the nanny state - a true tyranny of the majority. For example, what do you think the streets of Athens would look like if Greece had 20 million guns (number adjusted for population) for the protesting masses who want government benefits?
Goddammit. I haven't got a ****ing thing from the government in my entire life and now I get downgraded for wanting to collect on something I've paid in on for 40 years.
I've already put belmont on ignore. I'm going to do my best to stay away from general discussion and I've got plenty of ass to kiss for anyone else that wants to say anything else cute.
I didn't joint this site to read this stupid bullshit anyway.
Failure2Stop
12-29-12, 11:35
Our system is not fail proof, and the people are the 4th check and balance. If we handicap ourselves to the point of reliance OR an inability to be that 4th check then we reap what we sow, and are at the mercy of others. What happened in the 1770's was an anomaly, and something that usually goes the other way. We were given the greatest gift in human history, and threw it away.
Right on man.
LOL, social security is a government run Ponzi scheme.
My feelings exactly.
I've already put belmont on ignore.
So someone respectfully disagreed with you . . . big deal. You're being kinda pathetic
Damn if I put everyone I have disagreed with on ignore this would be a boring site ,I have disagreed with Belmont Before on stuff But I have agreed with some too and value him as a Member Here Just as others they have opened my eyes to things I did not know or didn't completely understand .
IMHO, I know that the 17 years of $$$ I've paid into SS is gone. I will never see it. I understand it would be on the backs of future generations to pay for me when that time comes, but at the rate of downspiral we are heading, when I am 84 or whatever age they raise it to by the time I get there, they'll be none to pay. I know it's a tough pill to take, but I would assume cut it now. Just look at what I have paid as a disability insurance on that time period I worked or as an income tax....gone, not a savings account. If I could have all the $$$ I paid into SS I would have a hell of a machine gun/gold collection...something that would have made me money even by now! I am more than willing to part with what I have "accured" according to their statements to put our country on the right path. That sacrifice is a hell of a lot less than what some gave in the 1770's. The problem is our current leaders would not make that step with us and make the choices & policys we NEED to get us on the right path. What we need the most will never happen.
Goddammit. I haven't got a ****ing thing from the government in my entire life and now I get downgraded for wanting to collect on something I've paid in on for 40 years.
I've already put belmont on ignore. I'm going to do my best to stay away from general discussion and I've got plenty of ass to kiss for anyone else that wants to say anything else cute.
I didn't joint this site to read this stupid bullshit anyway.
I'm not going to say that you are whining, but I will say that you support several fundamentally flawed principles. The biggest is that an armed society can depend on the government for luxury services such as retirement. The first problem arises from this premise when the population stops striving to achieve and becomes relatively sedentary on a bed of guns. Violent crimes begin to rise as the human spirit deteriorates. The big problems start when the government runs out of money and the population turns its guns inward on itself.
I too have paid in many a year into Social security. I would gladly throw every bit of it away to stop the fiscal madness that our country has devolved down to. Never, ever have I planned to retire off of it. I honestly don't believe that I ever will collect a dime from it.
So would I stop Social Security dead in its tracks, even vested as deeply as I am? ABSOLUTELY! We can't, nor could we ever have afforded it. It NEVER has been the duty of our government to secure us financially for retirement. If you can't plan for and provide for yourself, stuff happens. Come to others like family or friends, explain your circumstances and maybe we'll help you because we can afford it since the government quit taking it from us.
Until people figure out that voting to take from one to give to others will NEVER be sustainable, we're only going to keep on sliding down the hill.
Submariner
12-29-12, 15:26
Our country is ****ed...
What happened in the 1770's was an anomaly, and something that usually goes the other way. We were given the greatest gift in human history, and pissed it away.
Fixed it for ya.
Goddammit. I haven't got a ****ing thing from the government in my entire life and now I get downgraded for wanting to collect on something I've paid in on for 40 years.
I've already put belmont on ignore. I'm going to do my best to stay away from general discussion and I've got plenty of ass to kiss for anyone else that wants to say anything else cute.
I didn't joint this site to read this stupid bullshit anyway.
Hell, I've already come to terms with the eventuality that my wife and I will pay into SS for decades, and see at best a pittance that has bee shot to hell by inflation, at an age long after I intend to be retired from my primary career. It might be that I'm younger, but the BEST thing I have to say on the subject is that among entitlements, at least it's an earned entitlement, but one that's been mismanaged so poorly that my generation will reap the cost of its insolvency while the current formidable aging demographic ensures they milk that for 100% of what they can feel justified demanding.
More to the actual topic - I've spent over a week countertrolling on my friends facebook pages (most Ivy league and equivalent types) and the most valuable point from that article is the clearly stated dichotomy of you are for individual rights, or that RKBA is simply the first to rid yourself of on the road to inevitable dependency - because all of my friends, none of whom lack the intelligence to connect those dots but refuse to for their own reasons, seem to have either acquiesced to the inevitability of state dependency, or are knowingly and actively helping pursue it.
Belmont31R
12-29-12, 19:00
Remember you old people paid into it! Too bad you guys paid a fraction of the taxes I'll be paying!
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/EA2D0A3F3979392A819C2A5A1EDC3010_zpsec3b53cb.gif
Interesting read here!
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/27/5079151/california-gun-sales-increase.html
So rather that voting yea vs. nay only on the 2nd Amendment, I say that we must simultaneously decide if we are going to continue down the road of a nanny state. That is because a nanny state is fundamentally incompatible with an armed society. Now, when forced to decide between their guns and any of the various government-run Ponzi schemes that American's enjoy, which do you think most will choose?
This post pretty much nails it. The only thing I'd tweak is the suggestion that "we must decide if we are going to continue going down the road of a nanny state."
To me, it feels like it has already been decided. Historically most people prefer security over liberty, and it seems it's trending that way here.
PA PATRIOT
12-29-12, 23:18
I'm with the crew that believes if you pay into a future benefit all of your working life and qualify for same then it should be paid.
The "Y" generation is under the belief that it is unfair to have to pay into a system that maybe defunct by the time they are entitled to same.
But thats life and bitch as many here will I believe that a promise or what we can also call a right should be honored and not infringed on as many of the Anti-S/S members here would like to.
Kinda sounds like another fight currently going on were one group whats to end a government promise/right because they don't agree with it.
I suppose that my interest in all this is that people are unwilling to discuss the elephant in the china shop that stands behind this statement in the article:
The elephant that I'm talking about is the fact that over 50% of our population is already bound to the faceless government agencies tighter than any slave's chains. Rather than the hard oppression of tyranny, this is the soft oppression of government dependence with half of our population wedded to federal programs such as Medicare, Social Security, public housing, student loans, etc.
Well, here it is folks: The Founders would have NEVER approved of an armed society and included a right to bear arms in the Constitution had they known that 50% of the population was going to be latched so tightly to the federal government tit. Take a look at the writings between Jeffereson, Madison, et al after 1800. They frequently mention that a well disciplined militia entailed regular military training for all able bodied males, and the formation of a citizen-soldier state to replace standing armies in a manner similar to Ancient Greece. Sorry folks, we now look more like France circa 1789 than anything remotely resembling antiquity.
So rather that voting yea vs. nay only on the 2nd Amendment, I say that we must simultaneously decide if we are going to continue down the road of a nanny state. That is because a nanny state is fundamentally incompatible with an armed society. Now, when forced to decide between their guns and any of the various government-run Ponzi schemes that American's enjoy, which do you think most will choose?
Any sort of rebellion against the soft tyranny we now have will be undertaken by 10-30% of the population, at best. The beginnings of this nation was fraught with danger and the likelihood of failure, made all the worse by the ones who openly opposed it (and subsequently benefited from it).
I think it's far more likely that if arms are ever taken up against tyranny from within, they'll be dug up rather than pulled out of closets and safes. The hard core constitutionalists and pro-gun forces could never pull it off unless the .gov goes far too far and turns the will of a sizable majority against it. Look at the approval numbers for Congress, yet we haven't marched on the capital yet.
Then you don't know how SS works. The money you paid isn't going into a fund with your name it. The money you paid went to the people who were getting benefits at the time. The money the gov gets on SS taxes goes out the door within a month.
And because you paid a tax your entire life...it can never be repealed because then you wouldn't get your's, and thus rape another generation of their income? So because a wrong was committed...it can never be stopped because its not fair you had to pay a tax and people in the future might not have to? In that case we could never get rid of any onerous law or tax because its not fair to you that you had to live with it but future generations don't have to? Hell let's bring back slavery in the South because it's not fair to the past slaves today's blacks aren't chained up! (<--sarcasm)
No it's not like buying a rifle off the EE. Like I said the taxes you paid went into other people's pockets. Now...you want other people to be legally robbed to take money out their checks to give to you? Maybe we shouldn't try to get the NFA repealed because people have been paying NFA taxes since 1934....:rolleyes:
Let me guess...you voted multiple times in your life for people who supported the SS program? Is that right? I'll keep voting for people who want to repeal it, and get you people off the gov tit. Not my fault you paid taxes on it your entire life...but doesn't mean I want you in my wallet.
So you'd be for a death tax that reimbursed those currently paying into SS? :)
I'm with the crew that believes if you pay into a future benefit all of your working life and qualify for same then it should be paid.
The "Y" generation is under the belief that it is unfair to have to pay into a system that maybe defunct by the time they are entitled to same.
But thats life and bitch as many here will I believe that a promise or what we can also call a right should be honored and not infringed on as many of the Anti-S/S members here would like to.
Kinda sounds like another fight currently going on were one group whats to end a government promise/right because they don't agree with it.
Uh, where were you promised social security? If it was your Congresscritter, I suggest that you kick them in the nuts or uterus because they lied to you. If it was the media, well then you are about to get what you deserve for believing in their BS.
I say this because the government has long since established your contribution to the fund that pays SS benefits as a tax - you do not own or control it. The government has also maintained that they can modify your benefit whenever they see fit and without consulting you. Naturally, the government can and does spend your SS tax contributions on other projects such as wars, roads, and current benefits. There is no SS "lock box" and you are not paying into a 401K. Think of it this way: Uncle Sam already spent all of your contributions on your behalf with the funds that were used to build that interstate that you use to get to work. They simply forgot to dedicate an exit or bridge in your honor.
You see, SS was original passed as a social insurance targeted at to keep elderly widows from becoming destitute. It was never designed to be a retirement plan and it was expected that most people would not survive to collect a benefit. It was not until the 60's and 70's that SS really began to take on new meaning as a retirement system as the progressive movement saw a means to buy off big labor and the elderly as a voting block. People living longer and still wanting to retire at age 65 did not help things either.
So, every time you get pissed at the notion you might pay into SS (and Medicare) without ever seeing a return, realize that you are driving on the return as you cruise down an interstate...
Look at the approval numbers for Congress, yet we haven't marched on the capital yet.
That's because we're patient and peaceful people. Patience is a virtue.
" . . . Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government . . . "
They waited until a Hard Tyranny was upon them. We should do the same.
ETA: I'm not suggesting you're for a rebellion right now, or that I read it that way. I just wanted to expand on that thought.
That's because we're patient and peaceful people. Patience is a virtue.
" . . . Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government . . . "
They waited until a Hard Tyranny was upon them. We should do the same.
ETA: I'm not suggesting you're for a rebellion right now, or that I read it that way. I just wanted to expand on that thought.
You read me correct. I was saying that those who would ultimately rise up will do so long after bans have turned to confiscations and confiscations have run their course. When the enemy within has become so emboldened that they risk the moral outrage of most of the populace the shovels will come out, but not before.
You read me correct. I was saying that those who would ultimately rise up will do so long after bans have turned to confiscations and confiscations have run their course. When the enemy within has become so emboldened that they risk the moral outrage of most of the populace the shovels will come out, but not before.
It's kinda funny. Despite the MSM polls and the propaganda, and the fact that many people I speak to are completely fooled and blinded by it all, I do wonder if there's a silent majority. I do wonder if MOST people don't believe a word of what the TV tells them. I do wonder how many are talking about the 10th Amendment and Natural Rights and non-compliance and rebellion around the dinner table. What if they are just keeping quiet about it? Part of me refuses to believe that Liberty could ever be a hard sell. Everyone wants Liberty
PA PATRIOT
12-30-12, 11:52
Uh, where were you promised social security?
Its that little piece of paper that the S/S office mails me every year that states what I have paid into the fund, That I have 40 bazillion S/S credits and qualify for a payment of "X" amount of dollars at age 65 that kind of makes me believe a promise of S/S was made.
Now I understand what the original intent of S/S was and that it has been perverted into the Ponzi scheme it is today, but while I hate to admit that S/S maybe a sham for future generations its payments combined with my pension will allow me to live out my golden years hopefully just above the poverty level.
Its that little piece of paper that the S/S office mails me every year that states what I have paid into the fund, That I have 40 bazillion S/S credits and qualify for a payment of "X" amount of dollars at age 65 that kind of makes me believe a promise of S/S was made.
Now I understand what the original intent of S/S was and that it has been perverted into the Ponzi scheme it is today, but while I hate to admit that S/S maybe a sham for future generations its payments combined with my pension will allow me to live out my golden years hopefully just above the poverty level.
I'm confused..... You are an LEO and veteran, but your pension/retirement is only going to yield poverty level retirement?
I'm confused..... You are an LEO and veteran, but your pension/retirement is only going to yield poverty level retirement?
That's fairly common. Unless I retire from the .mil I get nothing from them. I could claim a bunch of injuries from service but that's another story. My pension from the state retirement system I'm part of won't be nearly enough in and of itself to live other than poverty level. I hope I get 20 in the military. Pension, military retirement, social security, and my 401 should allow me to live fairly well. In a right to work state without any real representation or police union or retirement is not like some you've heard of. 50% would be a realistic number for my pension vs. the 80 or 90 some get.
montanadave
12-30-12, 12:33
You see, SS was original passed as a social insurance targeted at to keep elderly widows from becoming destitute. It was never designed to be a retirement plan and it was expected that most people would not survive to collect a benefit. It was not until the 60's and 70's that SS really began to take on new meaning as a retirement system as the progressive movement saw a means to buy off big labor and the elderly as a voting block. People living longer and still wanting to retire at age 65 did not help things either.
So, every time you get pissed at the notion you might pay into SS (and Medicare) without ever seeing a return, realize that you are driving on the return as you cruise down an interstate...
That's it in a nutshell. Social Security was implemented as a "safety net" to keep old folks from freezing in the dark trying to chew the lid off a can of cat food.
Its corruption into a national retirement pension was nothing more than a political manipulation to secure the votes of a specific voting demographic. A demographic block which, coincidentally (or not), turns out to vote in larger percentages than any other group.
There is more drift here than there was in all of the Fast and Furious Movies (not Project Gun Walker).
Belmont31R
12-30-12, 20:24
There is more drift here than there was in all of the Fast and Furious Movies (not Project Gun Walker).
Not at all. The Founders said the republic they founded was for a society that could handle it.
Thus the freedoms we enjoy are only fit for a certain class of people.
They didn't forge this country for welfare or for people to vote themselves money out of the coffers or for non-tax paying people to force others to pay taxes to their benefit.
Thus the result is a country who votes in people who trash our rights for their benefit.
Belmont31R
12-30-12, 20:32
So you'd be for a death tax that reimbursed those currently paying into SS? :)
Nope.
Kids should be able to inherit ALL of their parents wealth or property with no tax penalties, and assume the same tax status their parents had.
Belmont31R
12-30-12, 20:35
Its that little piece of paper that the S/S office mails me every year that states what I have paid into the fund, That I have 40 bazillion S/S credits and qualify for a payment of "X" amount of dollars at age 65 that kind of makes me believe a promise of S/S was made.
Now I understand what the original intent of S/S was and that it has been perverted into the Ponzi scheme it is today, but while I hate to admit that S/S maybe a sham for future generations its payments combined with my pension will allow me to live out my golden years hopefully just above the poverty level.
The powers the government have come from the consent of the governed. If more people vote in Rep's which would do away with SS, and SS went away then it goes away. The rep's you voted in during your working career don't have some sort of authority of the rep's I vote in, and can't promise a certain revenue stream into the future to send you a check.
Does anyone have a link to the original file so I can see what was being talked about
(I will withhold my SS opinions)
Nope.
Kids should be able to inherit ALL of their parents wealth or property with no tax penalties, and assume the same tax status their parents had.
I see. So it's perfectly OK in your opinion that those currently paying in have paid for those that came before us, and that it's OK for us to receive nothing in return for our contributions. Yet it's OK for those that maintained their wealth until death with the assistance of our contributions, should return nothing to the system that secured their retirement years? :D
montanadave
12-30-12, 21:05
In keeping with the spirit of the holidays, I think Sally Brown speaks for all of us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgrD-8b53AM
I'll take mine in tens and twenties. :)
Belmont31R
12-30-12, 23:32
I see. So it's perfectly OK in your opinion that those currently paying in have paid for those that came before us, and that it's OK for us to receive nothing in return for our contributions. Yet it's OK for those that maintained their wealth until death with the assistance of our contributions, should return nothing to the system that secured their retirement years? :D
hmm.. Your post is kinda all over the place..
No I dont think its ok, "those currently paying in have paid for those that came before us".
I don't owe a damn thing to anyone.
As far as, "that it's OK for us to receive nothing in return for our contributions."
Nope. SS taxes paid go out the next month. There's no 'fund' with someones name on it. You cannot have, say in 1965, had a Senator or Rep promise you people in 2012/2013 would be paying taxes to give you X amount of money. Like I said government is at the consent of the governed, and we get a majority in government to end SS taxes then the SS checks stop. You can't, before I was born, vote for someone who says they can promise a certain tax stream to give you a check at some point in the future agains't those people's will.
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