Who needs an Reloader when you have a hammer

[bowietx]

Found this video to be very interesting and worth taking a look at. Check out the kid seating a bullet with a hammer at 4:23. This definitely makes even our poorest performing equipment seem high tech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE

As I try to decide between a Dillon and Hornady progressive press, this put everything in perspective.

[S. Galbraith]

It would be interesting to see their whole loading process, but from what I saw that is not going to be very good quality ammo. Probably 12 MOA out of an AK.

I prefer the Dillon 550b. It is a tad slower than full auto progressives, but it brings you closer to the "hands on" aspect of single stage presses and makes you a better reloader. Since you physically handle brass and bullets, and you can stop and backup production on the 550, you get less chance of error along with the ability to more easily correct mistakes.

[jstone]

I have not looked at the video yet, but lee makes a product that all need is a hammer for reloading. They make very good ammo, and are a great product for loading at the range.

I believe the name is the lee loader. You decap, neck size, prime, and seat the bullet all with a hammer. It is not the best for an Ar. I have neck sized for an Ar with no problems, but i would not depend on it for 100% reliability. I have only used neck sizing for my 75amax load so i could try to squeeze a little more powder in the case. They were only for range use so if they failed i would break them down and redo them.

If you have a bolt action or single shot the lee loaders are a cheap way to see if you like it. I personally do moth like any lee products other than the loaders, and the hand press.

I just watched the video i was not expecting what i saw. The finished ammo did not look horrible. They are definitely not using lee loaders. That pistol the guy made that had no tounge did not look bad. It looked like most of them had at minimum lost a limb. It did not look like there was not many safety practices.

[theblackknight]

Ive seen that video, the half blind dude in the cave making a M9 knockoff with simple tools.

When was your first desk pop?

sent from mah gun,using my sights

[bowietx]

S. Galbraith,

I have been considering the 550 and 650. I am currently loading with a Rockchucker Supreme and the move to a progressive has been a long time coming. Now that there are not any firearms available for purchase I can finally focus on getting this done. How many rounds can you load on the 550 in an hour? Any issues with reloading for rifle? I read in a previous review on TOS that the 650 was better for handgun.

JStone,

Sounds like an interesting tool from Lee, if used by those in the video it would probably increase safety by 150%!! I'll stick with my Rockchucker for a single stage, but the Lee hammer loader seems to be more mobile..... I found this video of R. Lee using the Lee reloader to make a new round in ~40 seconds, it is really incredible to see this vice the technology of today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

The BlackKnight,


By a desk pop are you referring to a malfunction during the reloading process (haven't experienced any yet) or firing your gun into the air from a desk (also haven't experienced this). It would appear that the folks in the video probably experienced both on a regular basis :D!!

[S. Galbraith]

S. Galbraith,

I have been considering the 550 and 650. I am currently loading with a Rockchucker Supreme and the move to a progressive has been a long time coming. Now that there are not any firearms available for purchase I can finally focus on getting this done. How many rounds can you load on the 550 in an hour? Any issues with reloading for rifle? I read in a previous review on TOS that the 650 was better for handgun.

The only real speed advantage of the 650 over the 550 is if you use the automatic case feeder. However, just like the 650 caliber conversion kits, changing out calibers is time consuming and VERY costly to make this setup work. The 650 is best if you want to reload primarily for handgun in a single caliber, because all that automation slows down change overs and makes for stopping production to correct errors/issues difficult. As far as production speed goes, can you afford the reloading components that additional speed gives you? With the 550b I can probably process 600-700 rounds of pistol in an hour. Generally I load 100-200 rounds at a time, and ensure that my brass looks good, my powder charges are remaining consistent, and every motion "feels right". You might get an extra 200 rounds an hour on the 650 for fast production range ammo. Most guys that have worked with both and enjoy the reloading hobby prefer the 550b. The 650 is better for someone who wants to process tens of thousands of range rounds a year in one or two calibers.........which isn't the ideal model for most people.

[mizer67]

I prefer the Dillon 550b. It is a tad slower than full auto progressives, but it brings you closer to the "hands on" aspect of single stage presses and makes you a better reloader. Since you physically handle brass and bullets, and you can stop and backup production on the 550, you get less chance of error along with the ability to more easily correct mistakes.

I have to disagree with part of this statement.

You're introducing a human element in indexing the casings manually with the 550 vs. other progressives. This does not lead to "less chance of error".

I've personally witnessed two handguns damaged by shooters reloading on 550's because of a lack of powder or too much thereof.

[S. Galbraith]

I've personally witnessed two handguns damaged by shooters reloading on 550's because of a lack of powder or too much thereof.

I take it back. If you are careless enough to rely on complete automation, you disregard the fundamentals of using the appropriate powder to fill your case volume, and you are incapable of looking 1 inch away from where you physically place a bullet onto a case.....then complete automation might be what you need. However, just as you have observed reloading errors, I to have seen a number of errors from reloaders who carelessly rely on automation. For instance, I have seen a number of case ruptures from shooters on 650 and 1050 machines who do not manually inspect their cases for body fatigue and case mouth cracks.

[tb-av]

With the 550b I can probably process 600-700 rounds of pistol in an hour.

You must be rolling downhill with a tail wind. That is flying.

[markm]

I much more prefer the 550b with manual index. I'm a control freak and visually check every case I set a bullet into for powder charge.

It's really more about the Indian than the Arrow like anything else. An idiot on any machine can blow a gun to bits.

[Moltke]

At 5:42 in that video he holds up a gun called an "Italian Rifle" for $150 American, and it's a Franchi SPAS-12 shotgun...

[S. Galbraith]

You must be rolling downhill with a tail wind. That is flying.

That's at my fastest. I timed myself with a quick 200rds once and I was able to do it in under 20min. Not practical though for good quality controls.

[HackerF15E]

Found this video to be very interesting and worth taking a look at. Check out the kid seating a bullet with a hammer at 4:23. This definitely makes even our poorest performing equipment seem high tech.

Not really. I loaded my first rounds with a Lee Loader, which is not much different than that.

There are lots of folks who don't reload using big progressive Rube Goldberg machines.

[TomMcC]

My first reloading set was a .357 mag LEE hand set. A hammer was used for every operation. It worked, but was a might tedious.

[bowietx]

HackerF15E,


JStone brought the Lee Reloader up earlier in the dialog, definitely an interesting piece of equipment. The video on youtube showing Richard Lee reloading a round in 40 seconds shows the efficacy of such technology. Glad to learn about this piece of equipment.

[jstone]

Whenever i hear about ammo being loaded with a hammer it is always the lee loaders.

When i first saw the video i was thinking wtf. Then it got into the guns & loading.

[Hound_va]

The only real speed advantage of the 650 over the 550 is if you use the automatic case feeder. However, just like the 650 caliber conversion kits, changing out calibers is time consuming and VERY costly to make this setup work. The 650 is best if you want to reload primarily for handgun in a single caliber, because all that automation slows down change overs and makes for stopping production to correct errors/issues difficult. As far as production speed goes, can you afford the reloading components that additional speed gives you? With the 550b I can probably process 600-700 rounds of pistol in an hour. Generally I load 100-200 rounds at a time, and ensure that my brass looks good, my powder charges are remaining consistent, and every motion "feels right". You might get an extra 200 rounds an hour on the 650 for fast production range ammo. Most guys that have worked with both and enjoy the reloading hobby prefer the 550b. The 650 is better for someone who wants to process tens of thousands of range rounds a year in one or two calibers.........which isn't the ideal model for most people.


Having run both a 550 and a 650 side by side for a long time, I can say that my opinion is very different than yours.
1. Inserting brass in station one of a 550 and turning the shellplate doesn't allow one understand the process any more than inserting a case in station one of a 650 and pulling the handle to advance it to station two. By the same token, sitting a bullet on a case is the same for both machines. Gaining an understanding of the loading process can be done the same whether done on a single stage, a semi-progressive, or a progressive press, one case at a time thru each stage.
2. You can physically inspect and insert a case into station one in the same fashion on a 650 that you do on a 550 if one chooses to do so. Brass QC can also be handled upon removal from the tumbler for both so that's a wash.
3. The manual indexing that allows one to back up also allows one to forget to index, pull the handle, and double charge a case, auto index doesn't allow this. Distractions and stoppages do happen with both the 550 and 650.
4. With the removal of 2 parts off of a 650 one can convert it to manual indexing. One cannot convert a 550 to auto indexing.
5. The casefeeder is a speed advantage on a 650, however even without the casefeeder, loading 25 45 ACP cases into the casefeed tube is better for me than removing my right hand from the handle each time to insert a case. Again, my brass is inspected prior to insertion into the tube or the casefeeder on a 650 just as it is prior to preparing to use a 550.
6. Caliber changeovers don't take more than a couple of minutes longer on a 650 compared to a 550 when one isn't changing primer sizes. Changing primer sizes adds another 5 minutes or so on a 650.
7. Visually inspecting powder charges is done in the same manner for both machines. One just has to look into each case prior to sitting a bullet on top. Automation doesn't mean that step is not required. The 650 has an additional station for a powder check if one wants to automate that process, a 550 does not allow for this.
8. Using "feel" to gauge proper operation is done the same on both machines, so that's a wash.
9. In stock form a 550 does handle loading rifle cartridges a little better. With a few simple and cheap modifications, a 650 operates just as well for them.

Machine type is irrelevant. If one chooses to skip any steps or doesn't find it necessary to pay attention, then one is just biding their time until something bad happens no matter what press one is using.

My issue with the 550 is in the operation with all four stations loaded. The whole set (L), pull (R), index (L), insert (R), pull (R) routine is a bit too much flailing around with both hands for my tastes. With a 650 the right hand never leaves the handle in operation and the left hand simply sets a bullet on the case. Even if just using the casefeed tube on a 650, one only removes the right hand from the handle every 25 cases or so. Four renditions of that and it is time to load the primer tube again anyway.