View Full Version : Trouble picking first hand gun
I know there's dozens of threads on picking peoples first handgun.
I am new to shooting, my top three contenders were the most popular and expected guns you would find in these types of threads: the M&P9, Glock 17 or 19, and the XD9.
The M&P felt great in my hands, the XD also felt pretty good, just not as much of an instant comfort as the M&P. And the glock felt like something I could get used to, a bit like holding a block of wood though.
Here's the dilemma, I was dead-set on getting the M&P 9, but after reading all these problems with the accuracy, i'm a bit discouraged about getting one. I want the accuracy to be blamed solely on me, the shooter, not the gun.
The glock has numerous threads on reliability issues with the gen4 and being that I want to buy new, a gen3 would be out of the question.
The XD is always talked about with its reliability. But the general consensus from most of the posters here, who are obviously more experienced and seasoned, say that the XD doesn't hold a candle to the glock or the M&P. Although, everywhere I have read, it isn't picky on ammo at all.
I don't want to spend more than $550. This will be used for the range, but it'll double as a home defense weapon, as it will be my first gun.
Should I be discouraged by either the M&P accuracy problem or the Glock's extractor issue? Also, i'm in California, so I'd have to get the 10 round mags, which from what I've been reading in a recent thread, a lot of people are having problems with...
The only thing stopping me from purchasing a handgun is deciding which one, at this point. I've already obtained my HSC about a week back.
Part of me just wants to take the gamble on the M&P, but it'd be frustrating to find out if I got one that wasn't accurate out of the box. I've gambled with reliability issues on a major purchase before, I mean, I drive a VW, but I don't want to do the same for something that I may use one day for defense.
I do live in California, I do not plan on carrying whatever what I decide on.
EDIT: Buying a glock 19 after renting one today, see:
Well, my father and I went shooting today, we brought his Smith and Wesson S9VE, which probably got more use today than it ever has. I rented a Glock 19...he's also been eying a glock for many years, but never bought one.
We loaded both guns up, he fired 5 from his gun, then 5 rounds from the glock. I did the same. We both agreed the glock is insanely great. I loved it, I was having a blast, no pun intended. We ended up putting about 150 rounds through the glock. We both want one, bad. The 19 fits in my hand perfectly, I had held a 17 before, but never a 19.
Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm shopping for a 19 for now, i'm also about to do a boat load of research on the different generations. I fired a Gen 3 today with no problems, my dad's SV9E stove piped today, but other than that, his gun performed well, but it was no glock.
Don't worry about the accuracy of the M&P. pick one up and you won't regret it.
LtNovakUSA
12-31-12, 12:53
There's a good thread stickied in the terminal ballistics subforum where Doc GKR talks about duty handguns/caliber. It should be required reading for anyone looking to get they're first gun.
Both the glock and M&P are solid handguns, and would serve you well. Try to get some trigger time on each one and go with the one you like best. Guns are mechanical and can have issues, no matter what you buy. Get something that fits you to get started and if you notice issues there are steps to address them. (Getting a fitted barrel to fix accuracy problems on the M&P and Apex extractor for the glock)
Good luck and welcome
I would concur with the other replies so far. Try out the glock and the M&P. As stated before, if there are issues with these guns, you can get them corrected. They are both solid choices, but I prefer the glock due to the availability of aftermarket parts and support. Good luck.
DanjojoUSMC
12-31-12, 13:23
Walther, used HK, maybe used Glock 26, etc. Not personally an M&P fan, different issue every year or two in its 7 years but popularity was/is pushed by the right people - other pistols don't seem to get the same pass.
I have an M&P 9L, a Glock 19 (Gen 3), and a Walther PPQ. The M&P had some accuracy issues, solved with a $200 barrel upgrade and a trigger issue, solved with a $60 DCAEK. The Glock had ejection issues, solved with a $70 Apex extractor upgrade (this is not a universal solution to the Glock Gen 3 issues...worked for me but not for others). The Walther PPQ ($525) has been perfect for me...an extremely accurate, completely reliable pistol with an excellent trigger right out of the box. Essentially the same size and weight as my Glock 19, it's an excellent carry gun.
The accuracy issues with the m&p are not as widespread as you may be led to believe from reading Internet forums. Most of the time, only those with problems speak up and that story may be retold a few times which can make it seem that the problems are much more common than they really are.
If you get a bad m&p, the problem can be solved with a match barrel from g&r.
Also, I think the accuracy issues with the m&p are limited to the 9mm. If I were in a place where I was limited to 10 rd mags, I think I would be looking at a 40 or 45.
I have experience with all 3 of the platforms you are thinking about, and I would immediately stop looking at the xd. Glocks and m&p just comes down to personal preference in my opinion, but the m&p will have less felt recoil in 40 or 45 than the glock.
I have an M&P 9L, a Glock 19 (Gen 3), and a Walther PPQ. The M&P had some accuracy issues, solved with a $200 barrel upgrade and a trigger issue, solved with a $60 DCAEK. The Glock had ejection issues, solved with a $70 Apex extractor upgrade (this is not a universal solution to the Glock Gen 3 issues...worked for me but not for others). The Walther PPQ ($525) has been perfect for me...an extremely accurate, completely reliable pistol with an excellent trigger right out of the box. Essentially the same size and weight as my Glock 19, it's an excellent carry gun.
Ugh...but at that point i'm spending $750+ on a M&P, that's HK money...
The accuracy issues with the m&p are not as widespread as you may be led to believe from reading Internet forums. Most of the time, only those with problems speak up and that story may be retold a few times which can make it seem that the problems are much more common than they really are.
If you get a bad m&p, the problem can be solved with a match barrel from g&r.
Also, I think the accuracy issues with the m&p are limited to the 9mm. If I were in a place where I was limited to 10 rd mags, I think I would be looking at a 40 or 45.
I have experience with all 3 of the platforms you are thinking about, and I would immediately stop looking at the xd. Glocks and m&p just comes down to personal preference in my opinion, but the m&p will have less felt recoil in 40 or 45 than the glock.
Even for a first gun? I've noticed the .40 is more available with the M&P and for some reason, it's $10-$20 cheaper than the 9mm version and it doesn't suffer from the accuracy issue...hrmm.
Provided you have average grip strength and proper grip on the pistol, you won't have any problem with either.
The main drawback is the cost of ammunition.
Gutshot John
12-31-12, 14:22
You're way overthinking this. :help:
Most M&Ps don't have an accuracy problem. Mine shoot just fine with factory barrels including one that will shoot nice little clover leafs at 25 yards from a benchrest. Have some M&Ps displayed accuracy problems for some really good shooters? Yes but that said you're looking at accuracy in the wrong light.
You're far too concerned with potential accuracy (measurable only on a bench) of a product that you haven't even purchased...accuracy that as a new shooter you may or may not even be able to exceed for several years. Accuracy is not an absolute and there are many factors that go into it over and above sight alignment and trigger pull.
If you really like the M&P and you shoot it better than your other options, who gives a long wet fart what the interwebs tell you about its accuracy?
Just pick a gun and shoot it. Take classes, build your skills. If you run into reasons down the road that compel you to switch...do so. If you really like your M&P and you can quantify an accuracy problem, than a $200 barrel fix is cheaper than buying a new gun. It makes ZERO sense for you to invest $750 into an M&P when you aren't even skilled enough to be able to quantify when you're having an accuracy problem, or the gun is. Consider it an initial investment of $1000, you can A) get a $1000 HK, no ammo and no training, or B) get a $500 M&P, 1000 rounds of ammo and a two-day class. During that class you'll get to put the gun through its paces and figure out its quirks, the instructor can also tell you if you're one of the unlucky ones who got a bad barrel.
This is one of the reasons I hate the internet and gun forums in particular. Someone who doesn't know any better hears something about the "accuracy" of a gun, or "slide bite" or "unreliability", or "the slide disintegrates after 10K rounds" and takes it as gospel truth. In reality said person is probably parroting things 4th or 5th hand, and doesn't have a clue. Not all opinions on the interwebs (or gun forums) are equal.
Pick a gun, run it. Change if needed. Enough said.
Learn it, live it and stop giving a shit what other people think.
shaneinhisroom
12-31-12, 14:32
BTW- don't discount Glock. You can still find Gen 3 new at most gun shops and they're even a little cheaper than Gen 4. I carry a Gen 3 19 and I advise everyone else who can comfortably carry and shoot one to do so.
I know you listed your top three, but I would seriously consider looking at and shooting a Walther PPQ. I think it's the best polymer pistol for the money right out of the box. I have a Glock 19 and a M&P and I carry and enjoy shooting my PPQ much more than either of the other two. It is extremely accurate, has awesome ergonomics, and has the best out of the box trigger of any of the polymer guns.
You really shouldn't be limiting yourself based on picking up and holding a gun at the LGS. Go rent a two or three, tell the range you're going to buy one and most ranges will cut you a break on the rental prices. Especially when you're renting more than one.
You're better served to spend $50-70 and shooting these 3 models to find out what works for you.
Gutshot John
12-31-12, 15:40
You really shouldn't be limiting yourself based on picking up and holding a gun at the LGS. Go rent a two or three, tell the range you're going to buy one and most ranges will cut you a break on the rental prices. Especially when you're renting more than one.
You're better served to spend $50-70 and shooting these 3 models to find out what works for you.
The problem with that oft-repeated (and not necessarily bad) advice is how would he know how to evaluate which works best as a brand new shooter? The gun I "loved" when I first started shooting is not that gun I shoot now. I didn't know then what I know now.
Honestly he needs instruction more than a gun.
Pick a reputable gun, doesn't matter which (Glock, M&P, PPQ are all decent choices). Take it to a few classes, adjust as necessary.
The problem with that oft-repeated (and not necessarily bad) advice is how would he know how to evaluate which works best as a brand new shooter? The gun I "loved" when I first started shooting is not that gun I shoot now. I didn't know then what I know now.
Honestly he needs instruction more than a gun.
Pick a reputable gun, doesn't matter which (Glock, M&P, PPQ are all decent choices). Take it to a few classes, adjust as necessary.
I agree with John's advice. I have had both a Glock 23 and now currently own an M&P 9 FS. I would also recommend either to anybody out there. As a new shooter you won't necessarily know exactly what you like and don't like until you get some rounds down range. Pick a gun, buy some ammo and shoot the crap out of it. You would also be surprised how the firearms you mentioned hold their value and if you decide to go another route you can sell it for a good price and invest in something else. You would also have solid expectations of the next firearm you purchased if the first didn't work out. Most everyone on this forum has shot many different platforms depending upon what they wanted at the time and if you shoot long enough you will undoubtedly join those ranks. Good luck!
Semper Fi,
Tim
Unless you are in a big hurry, I would wait till after SHOT 2013, which is only two weeks away, to see if there will be any new or revised/updated models coming out by HK, S&W, Walther, Glock, etc. Once you decide on one, it *might* be wise to get as many extra hi-cap mags for it as you think you might need. From what I gather, it appears the Apex Extractor kit pretty well fixes most BTF issues on the Gen4 9mm pistols.
JackFanToM
12-31-12, 17:03
M&P is great, I own one, no accuracy issues with the gun, some with the shooter, but if I was getting a handgun right at this moment I would get a Walther PPQ...just 1 man's opinion
Michael2007
12-31-12, 18:05
My Gen 4 G19 ejects to the 330-400 reliably. Never been pinged in the head. And I'm in love with her.
I haven't seen any suggestions for FN Herstal's line of pistols. My EDC gun is a FNH FNX-9. I bought the handgun in June and several thousand rounds of everything from WWB to Nato rounds, no misfires. It's hammer fired, all controls are ambi, and came with Trijicon HD night sights. If you like striker fired guns, the FNS is essentially the same as the FNX series. Picked mine up for $650+ tax. Comes with 3 17rd mags.
I have Gen 1, 2, & 3 Glocks and I wouldn't hesitate purchasing a Gen 4 at some point. I love them - they just work.
I have Gen 1, 2, & 3 Glocks and I wouldn't hesitate purchasing a Gen 4 at some point. I love them - they just work.
Sometimes, yes. Maybe even most of the time, they work fine.
Glock 9mm. Gen4 are very accurate, reliability is improved esp 17, and aftermarket fixes are available at decent cost. Non withstanding current situation, mags and other spare parts are plentiful. With presence of a US based manufacturing, they are relatively protected against import restrictions, if there were any.
.40 is harder to shoot well than 9, and, as a rule, is more expensive.
You're a new shooter, unless you have a God-given talent and confidence, do you want to be in a position asking "Is it me missing those shots, or my MP is one of those that suck?"
PPQ is a popular choice, not my favorite but is liked by many, but my biggest concern about it in current climate is both present and future availability of standard capacity magazines.
Glock 9mm. Gen4 are very accurate, reliability is improved esp 17, and aftermarket fixes are available at decent cost. Non withstanding current situation, mags and other spare parts are plentiful. With presence of a US based manufacturing, they are relatively protected against import restrictions, if there were any.
.40 is harder to shoot well than 9, and, as a rule, is more expensive.
You're a new shooter, unless you have a God-given talent and confidence, do you want to be in a position asking "Is it me missing those shots, or my MP is one of those that suck?"
PPQ is a popular choice, not my favorite but is liked by many, but my biggest concern about it in current climate is both present and future availability of standard capacity magazines.
I agree with this on all counts. Glock 19 gen4 is my second handgun and I wish I would have started on it rather than the DA/SA .40 that I thought would be good for me before I knew better.
Business_Casual
12-31-12, 18:47
You're way overthinking this.
Just pick a gun and shoot it. Take classes, build your skills.
Pick a gun, run it. Change if needed. Enough said.
Learn it, live it and stop giving a shit what other people think.
This should be a sticky here! Take John's advice, practice and train with Vickers and Hackathorn.
bc
Finger bang all of them and pick the one you like.
Another vote for the PPQ. I was in the same boat and after shooting/handling all of them, landed on PPQ. Haven't found one yet though...
Failure2Stop
12-31-12, 18:58
I have been asked this question so many time I put it up on my website. Don't worry, I'm not going to quote it or link to it, but rather give an original and frank answer.
Easy answer: get a Glock 19 or 17, made either before Aug 2009 or after March 2011 and a set of aftermarket sights based on the recommendation of someone you trust.
No need to wait until after SHOT. While the pistol itself is important, its support equipment (holsters, spare parts, upgrade parts, magazines, aftermarket sights, etc.) is every bit as important, and I have yet to see a simultaneous release of new pistol along with a full compliment of support equipment to come anywhere close to what already exists for the M&P, Sig P-series, or Glock pistols. So, even if the best pistol that will ever exist is released at SHOT 2013, it won't be as supportable as those that are already established in the civilian and police/military markets.
Buy a few thousand rounds of ammo for said pistol and two classes from quality instructors. Recommend that one is a basic class based on fundamentals. After those classes, do some competition. After that, really examine the market and determine what makes a difference in your performance.
I will go totally against the grain here but my first large caliber handgun suggestion has 't changed in 30 years- find a good used smith and Wesson k frame revolver- rugged reliable and more inherent accuracy than any modern auto period. While not as much today it was pretty easy to find a used smith police trade in under 200 bucks. Now can still find them under 3.
My old used model 10 never missed a beat and could hold 5 inch 50 yard groups that no auto could hope for.
You really shouldn't be limiting yourself based on picking up and holding a gun at the LGS. Go rent a two or three, tell the range you're going to buy one and most ranges will cut you a break on the rental prices. Especially when you're renting more than one.
You're better served to spend $50-70 and shooting these 3 models to find out what works for you.
The best advice!!!
DanjojoUSMC
12-31-12, 20:30
I will go totally against the grain here but my first large caliber handgun suggestion has 't changed in 30 years- find a good used smith and Wesson k frame revolver- rugged reliable and more inherent accuracy than any modern auto period. While not as much today it was pretty easy to find a used smith police trade in under 200 bucks. Now can still find them under 3.
My old used model 10 never missed a beat and could hold 5 inch 50 yard groups that no auto could hope for.
I started with revolvers when I was a kid, and still enjoy them, but....
at least a few stock modern autos can do 5 inches or less at 50, more with the right ammo.
beschatten
12-31-12, 20:33
It's important for a gun to feel good in the hands. However, I remember I made a remark like that infront of a well known gunsmith and he made a very strong point in saying "It may feel good in the hand but that doesn't make it the best for your hands".
Try dry-firing the pistols you are looking into and see which one gives you the best results. Things like this can always be overcome with training but it's important for the grip of the gun to be either big enough or small enough to give you the best possible trigger pull.
My split times and accuracy did improve slightly with the Gen4 17 from the Gen4 19. However I still shoot both and love both.
With that said, buy with confidence in any of the pistols you mentioned and are mentioned in this thread. It really depends on what you perform the best with and what you like. This probably will not be the last gun you buy as your curiosity and what you like/dislike will change with time.
To give you an idea of how many guns I went through:
First gun was 1911, then P225 police trade in, went P226, sold P225, then bought a PPQ, bought G19, sold P226, bought G17, and now I will be planning to buy a Colt series 70 for some customization. That doesn't include shooting the snot out of my buddies guns (M&P's, H&K's, various 1911's).
And I'm sure my list is short compared to most on this forum. Goodluck OP.
I was dead set against the way Glocks felt, but after trying a G19 Gen4, It really changed my mind, now love it, replaced the with the Apex FRE & runs like a swiss watch. I was very temped to get the PPQ, love it, but mags are not too easy to find & 2x what the Glock mags go for. It it weren't for the mag issue, I would have bought a PPQ.
Try to find a Glock 19 RTF2. Some of the best Glocks I've ever used.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I was dead set against the way Glocks felt, but after trying a G19 Gen4, It really changed my mind, now love it, replaced the with the Apex FRE & runs like a swiss watch. I was very temped to get the PPQ, love it, but mags are not too easy to find & 2x what the Glock mags go for. It it weren't for the mag issue, I would have bought a PPQ.
Dude get the MR Eagle mags--that said EVERYTHING is backordered.
I was dead set against the way Glocks felt, but after trying a G19 Gen4, It really changed my mind, now love it, replaced the with the Apex FRE & runs like a swiss watch. I was very temped to get the PPQ, love it, but mags are not too easy to find & 2x what the Glock mags go for. It it weren't for the mag issue, I would have bought a PPQ.
I felt and did exactly the same as you did towards the Gen 4 Glocks. I now have two 17's and one 19 (all August FDE pistols), all with the Apex FRE, the Vicker's add ons and the triggers set up the way I prefer. No issues with mine either. I also own a PPQ 9 I got last Febuary, IMHO an underrated pistol and again no problems. If I could only keep one, it would be the Gen 4 G17.
Thanks for all the replies guys, on Wednesday I am going to the range to test out the M&P9, Glock 17/19, and the XD9.
It seems as though the glock is where people should start, and work from there, figure out what works and doesn't work about the gun for them. That's what I gathered from most of the replies...
I'll post back my findings hopefully Wednesday afternoon. Also, why is it so hard to find a good price on new handguns? This place near my house, riflegear, is cheaper than most for the M&P, but they want $605 for a Gen 4 Glock 17.
DanjojoUSMC
12-31-12, 22:45
Maybe a Cali thing, only good prices on Glocks I ever saw were LE trade in. When I moved back home to Ohio I saw better prices on everything. A lot of locals and other Marines I knew were ordering online.
I am new to shooting. . .
And the glock felt like something I could get used to, a bit like holding a block of wood though. . .
I don't want to spend more than $550. This will be used for the range, but it'll double as a home defense weapon . . . but I don't want to do the same for something that I may use one day for defense.
First of all the cost of the gun is the most over focused on issue! The cost of accessories (holster, mag pouches), the cost of mags, and the cost of ammo is way more an issue than X dollars. I'll tell you that the ammo, mags and accessories costs dwarf the firearm cost.
Since CA = no more then 10 rounds I would recommend stepping up to 40 or 45 in the Glock or HK (unless you plan on shooting many thousands of rounds, then 9mm).
HK 45, 45c and P30= the best quality, good ergos, mediocre triggers; Glock 35/21= the defacto standard; Walther PPQ (in 9mm)= best trigger, great quality and ergos, only minus is muzzle flip/recoil a bit more than Glock
If I were in your position I would get the 40cal Glock 35 gen 4 (or gen 3) or a 45cal Glock 21. Guns just shoot very well. No issues with these. You can be significantly more accurate than with a 23. Dont worry about the blocky thing. 40 cal gen 4s have only been a step up from the gen 3s. Or a 9mm Glock 19 (or 26 even) if you will cc.
The HKs or PPQ (similar ergos) are also "no regret" choices.
Since you are a newbie (and perhaps a bit shakey in the safe department--be honest) then I would go for a DA/SA with an external manual safety in the HK45/P30. Train a lot with the gun in the dry fire mode. You can shoot in many modes with that trigger. DA no safety, DA w safety, SA with safety (cocked and locked), DA to SA transition (live fire only). Decocking. Covering the hammer when reholstering. Think of this as learning on a truck manual transmission with double clutching. You'll be happy you did. When you go to the "automatic" ie the Glocks or PPQ you will be that much better; try going the other way and you'll be in for a surprise. I started on HK DA/SA and it was a great experience. In addition resale on the HK is excellent.
PS Just checked on prices. Right now the price gouging is INSANE re all guns. This is not logical as a total "ban" is unlikely. In 2008 dems had both houses and the presidency. Now they only have 1 house with a lower majority. This is just more gun industry hyping and gun nut behavior. If you can wait or by used. $605 for a gen 4 that is a good deal nowadays
PPS Forgot about the CA "list" nonsense. It can be legally worked around--but now it will be even tougher. Sorry Im not up on that.
Gutshot John
12-31-12, 23:15
First of all the cost of the gun is the most over focused on issue!
Ehhhh...no. The "most over focused on issue" has to be caliber...by a whole heap.
Cost, especially opportunity cost is certainly an issue and undoubtedly the easiest criteria to quantify. It is objective and therefore not subject to vagaries of opinion.
There is nothing wrong with prioritizing based on a budget.
Dannojo-My experience over 30 years plus on a trigger is nothing short of a tuned 1911 can beat a revolver for accuracy. Not a lot of people can shoot them well enough to get the accuracy they are capable of- I have never seen any stock combat auto do better than 8-10 inches at 50 yards. And I have shot at multiple national level competitions. Using a b27 target holding 9 ring or. Better for me is very doable with a revolver or a 1911 but that opens up to 8 ring with a modern combat auto, usually with a few uncalled flyers into the 7 ring
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-01-13, 09:11
My advice will mimic that already given.
1. 9mm is a great caliber for new shooters. The cost of ammo allows for more training, and given quality JHP's are chosen, it's well suited and capable of filling the defensive role. My first handgun was a 9mm, I've owned umpteen since in different calibers and am back with 9mm.
2. Pick a platform (Glock, M&P, PPQ or whatever) and try to master it. Don't give up on it after a few trips to the range.
3. Take as many classes as you can from reputable trainers, and don't overlook the value of a basic fundamentals class. I was a couple years into handgun ownership before I took my first basic fundamentals class. I learned a lot from it, more than I expected to, and the instructor was able to fix me of a few minor things I was doing wrong, things I was doing wrong from being self taught. If you take a basic handgun course right off the bat, you will save yourself from ingraining bad technique and habits into your shooting style.
4. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, and then dry fire some more. Use your dry fire time to also work on drawing from concealment, reloads, and other weapon manipulation drills. I know range and home defense is the primary use of the gun, not likely you'll get a ccw in CA, but those skills are important none the less.
Good luck.
My advice will mimic that already given.
1. 9mm is a great caliber for new shooters. The cost of ammo allows for more training, and given quality JHP's are chosen, it's well suited and capable of filling the defensive role. My first handgun was a 9mm, I've owned umpteen since in different calibers and am back with 9mm.
2. Pick a platform (Glock, M&P, PPQ or whatever) and try to master it. Don't give up on it after a few trips to the range.
3. Take as many classes as you can from reputable trainers, and don't overlook the value of a basic fundamentals class. I was a couple years into handgun ownership before I took my first basic fundamentals class. I learned a lot from it, more than I expected to, and the instructor was able to fix me of a few minor things I was doing wrong, things I was doing wrong from being self taught. If you take a basic handgun course right off the bat, you will save yourself from ingraining bad technique and habits into your shooting style.
4. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, and then dry fire some more. Use your dry fire time to also work on drawing from concealment, reloads, and other weapon manipulation drills. I know range and home defense is the primary use of the gun, not likely you'll get a ccw in CA, but those skills are important none the less.
Good luck.
Perfect advice.
If I may add something. Consider your financial situation and what you want in a pistol.
Want night sights? Get a Glock, because you'll get the most choices.
Don't want night sights, or can't afford to upgrade? Get an M&P, because the OEM sights are quite good.
Picky on triggers, but don't want to swap parts? Check out the PPQ.
Possibly chopping the grip down for concealment down the road? Get a GEN 3 Glock (not Gen 4, makes it a big headache).
Plan on running a Weapon Light? Consider the choices if you look at something like an M&P9/40 Compact that is more limited in options. Or the G26 which flat out doesn't allow WML.
Possibility of running an RMR in the future? Look at which model pistols offer a pre-milled aftermarket slide, so you can retain your OEM slide should you choose to do IDPA or just don't like the RMR. Glock seems to have the most available currently, but hopefully the M&P CORE slides will be available for sale.
Can you afford and do you maintain the skills to adequately shoot .45? If not, stick to 9mm. (I personally would anyways).
To make life as simple as possible for new shooters, I tend to recommend a Glock 19 if they are safe enough or don't desire an active safety (if so, the M&P sets the bar IMHO for external safeties outside of 1911s). The Glock 19 will do most tasks well, but isn't the best at any. It conceals well, has pretty high capacity (run G17 mags as reloads), has a non-compromised grip, cheap parts, and is incredibly easy to work on. The Gen 3 trigger is pretty damn good out of the box. It will get you through concealed carry, competition, and training classes (the light rail may become very important down the road). Accessories are cheap and plentiful.
I wouldn't look too far into the accuracy issues of the M&P. It still seems to be a pretty unlikely chance you would end up with one. Even if you did, you most likely won't be shooting 25 yard bullseyes at the start of your shooting career. If you like everything else about the M&P, go for it. There are fixes that aren't that expensive and add an advantage on top of fixing the potential problem. Also the new M&P triggers are world's better than the old ones (though it's still no Glock IMO, but thankfully companies like APEX and ATEI exist).
My personal favorite weapons for all around use are the Glock 19 and M&P9 Fullsize. I do like my M&P45c and M&P Shield as niche weapons. When I train, I generally do it on the Glock 19.
My personal vote would be to pick up a Gen 3 Glock 19, and try and find an M&P Shield for less permissive environments. Those two weapons should do just about anything you'd want out of a pistol, and the Glock platform allows a lot of room for growth and customization.
M4C may seem boring in that all you hear is "Glock and M&P" "Get 9mm" and to a lesser extend "P30 and PPQ" - but it's for good reason. These weapons set the bar IMHO for what a defensive pistol should be. Happy hunting.
To add to what Steve said, I feel like your choices substantially expanded if you're not planning on carrying. I guess it depend on preferences also.
I find that a full size M&P is just a tad bit too big for me to carry, so I don't consider it much of an option. The M&P compact feels like a slightly compromised grip, at in its stock form as it is rather slick. So to me a Glock 19 is just right in the size department, though I've still yet to compare it to the PPQ.
The external safety option is also quite important to many people who don't yet feel confident enough with a handgun. That would point towards an M&P. Ugh.. its such a toss up, they are all decent platforms. Not having those limitations, however, open your options up quite a bit. I think the advice of shooting them all if you can is quite sound. Not only will it make for good research into your purchase, it will be quite fun too!
Perfect advice.
If I may add something. Consider your financial situation and what you want in a pistol.
Want night sights? Get a Glock, because you'll get the most choices.
Don't want night sights, or can't afford to upgrade? Get an M&P, because the OEM sights are quite good.
Picky on triggers, but don't want to swap parts? Check out the PPQ.
Possibly chopping the grip down for concealment down the road? Get a GEN 3 Glock (not Gen 4, makes it a big headache).
Plan on running a Weapon Light? Consider the choices if you look at something like an M&P9/40 Compact that is more limited in options. Or the G26 which flat out doesn't allow WML.
Possibility of running an RMR in the future? Look at which model pistols offer a pre-milled aftermarket slide, so you can retain your OEM slide should you choose to do IDPA or just don't like the RMR. Glock seems to have the most available currently, but hopefully the M&P CORE slides will be available for sale.
Can you afford and do you maintain the skills to adequately shoot .45? If not, stick to 9mm. (I personally would anyways).
To make life as simple as possible for new shooters, I tend to recommend a Glock 19 if they are safe enough or don't desire an active safety (if so, the M&P sets the bar IMHO for external safeties outside of 1911s). The Glock 19 will do most tasks well, but isn't the best at any. It conceals well, has pretty high capacity (run G17 mags as reloads), has a non-compromised grip, cheap parts, and is incredibly easy to work on. The Gen 3 trigger is pretty damn good out of the box. It will get you through concealed carry, competition, and training classes (the light rail may become very important down the road). Accessories are cheap and plentiful.
I wouldn't look too far into the accuracy issues of the M&P. It still seems to be a pretty unlikely chance you would end up with one. Even if you did, you most likely won't be shooting 25 yard bullseyes at the start of your shooting career. If you like everything else about the M&P, go for it. There are fixes that aren't that expensive and add an advantage on top of fixing the potential problem. Also the new M&P triggers are world's better than the old ones (though it's still no Glock IMO, but thankfully companies like APEX and ATEI exist).
My personal favorite weapons for all around use are the Glock 19 and M&P9 Fullsize. I do like my M&P45c and M&P Shield as niche weapons. When I train, I generally do it on the Glock 19.
My personal vote would be to pick up a Gen 3 Glock 19, and try and find an M&P Shield for less permissive environments. Those two weapons should do just about anything you'd want out of a pistol, and the Glock platform allows a lot of room for growth and customization.
M4C may seem boring in that all you hear is "Glock and M&P" "Get 9mm" and to a lesser extend "P30 and PPQ" - but it's for good reason. These weapons set the bar IMHO for what a defensive pistol should be. Happy hunting.
LOL this has been exactly my line of thinking: my first 2 guns I bought were a Gen 3 G19 and an M&P Shield. Extremely happy with both purchases
To add to what Steve said, I feel like your choices substantially expanded if you're not planning on carrying. I guess it depend on preferences also.
I find that a full size M&P is just a tad bit too big for me to carry, so I don't consider it much of an option. The M&P compact feels like a slightly compromised grip, at in its stock form as it is rather slick. So to me a Glock 19 is just right in the size department, though I've still yet to compare it to the PPQ.
The external safety option is also quite important to many people who don't yet feel confident enough with a handgun. That would point towards an M&P. Ugh.. its such a toss up, they are all decent platforms. Not having those limitations, however, open your options up quite a bit. I think the advice of shooting them all if you can is quite sound. Not only will it make for good research into your purchase, it will be quite fun too!
I'm going to update my original post. I am NOT planning on carrying. I do live in California, so 10 rounds mags are my limit, it's basically a matter of platform.
I'm going to update my original post. I am NOT planning on carrying. I do live in California, so 10 rounds mags are my limit, it's basically a matter of platform.
Yeah I understood that, I should have made what I was getting at more clear. What I meant was to discuss how those guns fit my hands. One felt too small, another was too big for carry, another just right for both carry and my hand size. That's for me personally. The implicit advice from that is, you gotta get your hands on all of these and see how they fit you to make an educated decision.
sandsunsurf
01-01-13, 18:20
Glock 19. Period.
I have all three, but would only consider the Glock if I were going to own just one pistol. There are dozens of reasons, most mentioned above, but understated in their importance. There is literally no good argument to own only a PPQ, M&P or especially an XD that can overcome the combination of cheap and abundant magazines and parts for what is also arguably the most reliable platform, the Glock.
There's a reason that I own five glocks but only one M&P, one
XD and one Walther P99.
enforcer22
01-01-13, 18:46
The best advice I can give you is find something comfortable that you can shoot well. It doesnt matter if its a .22 or a hand cannon. Main thing is that its comfortable and you have confidence in your ability with it. See if you can find someone who will let you try their handgun fing one that works for you and then shooot it over, and over, and over until everything about it is second nature.
Good luck with your purchase and post a pic when you get it.
I'm right there with ya buddy. Not buying my first hand gun, but my first hi-cap 9mm. I've carried a 1911 in .45 for the last 7 years (since I turned 21), but thanks to being exposed to more information and intelligent gun owners I've decided to make the switch. FWIW I'm fairly set on a M&P9 FS. I've looked over Glocks, FN's, Caracal's, Walther's, and Steyr's, and the M&P seems to be the best compromise on quality, cost efficiency, and aftermarket support.
Ehhhh...no. The "most over focused on issue" has to be caliber...by a whole heap.
Cost, especially opportunity cost is certainly an issue and undoubtedly the easiest criteria to quantify. It is objective and therefore not subject to vagaries of opinion.
There is nothing wrong with prioritizing based on a budget.
You are right that caliber is an obsession with many. And for those in a "normal" state the 9mm choice is clear.
You state that: "There is nothing wrong with prioritizing based on a budget." That is what most do and is why Kel-tec sells so well and Hi-point sells at all. I am not a fan of either.
So say I prioritize based upon cost of purchase and not cost of ownership. The initial purchase price of M+P or XD is $75-125 lower. So after a couple of years of active shooting will that M+P/XD have cost less than say a G4 Glock? Just one thing will make that answer clear. Say I want to accumulate 10 magazines. I buy 2 more genuine glock mags at $22 shipped free and 5 more KCI at $13 dollars each shipped free. Cost $109 extra. Now how much will the M+P or XD mags cost? M+P mags at over 30 each shipped free--$240 extra. XD mags are pretty competitive at low 20's say $24 shipped (with no aftermarket?) so that will be at least $192. So with that one issue the Glock is as cheap or cheaper to own. And those examples will keep going in the Glock's favor.
Well, my father and I went shooting today, we brought his Smith and Wesson S9VE, which probably got more use today than it ever has. I rented a Glock 19...he's also been eying a glock for many years, but never bought one.
We loaded both guns up, he fired 5 from his gun, then 5 rounds from the glock. I did the same. We both agreed the glock is insanely great. I loved it, I was having a blast, no pun intended. We ended up putting about 150 rounds through the glock. We both want one, bad. The 19 fits in my hand perfectly, I had held a 17 before, but never a 19.
Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm shopping for a 19 for now, i'm also about to do a boat load of research on the different generations. I fired a Gen 3 today with no problems, my dad's SV9E stove piped today, but other than that, his gun performed well, but it was no glock.
The glock has numerous threads on reliability issues with the gen4 and being that I want to buy new, a gen3 would be out of the question.
Gen 4 is not on Cali approved list. Gen 3 or nothing
Also, i'm in California, so I'd have to get the 10 round mags, which from what I've been reading in a recent thread, a lot of people are having problems with...
Yes, 10 round mags have issues
I do live in California, I do not plan on carrying whatever what I decide on.
That sucks
uh, I bought a Gen 3 G19 new over the summer... I believe there are still new Gen 3's to be had... err that may have changed in the last months from firearmageddon
uh, I bought a Gen 3 G19 new over the summer... I believe there are still new Gen 3's to be had... err that may have changed in the last months from firearmageddon
So did I, who say's gen3's are not availible? I bought my G23 in August
My LGS has them now.
Gutshot John
01-05-13, 13:19
You state that: "There is nothing wrong with prioritizing based on a budget." That is what most do and is why Kel-tec sells so well and Hi-point sells at all. I am not a fan of either.
Straw man and false choice. I laid it out pretty clearly. Funds are never unlimited. Prioritization based on cost and available funds is something we all do...including you.
If your budget is $1k you're better off with a $500 gun and $500 in ammo/training than you are with a $1k gun.
This is what opportunity cost is. You're giving up the opportunity to train and practice, for the price of a shiny new $1k gun that you can't freaking shoot.
The rest of your argument pretty much proves my point. That said this is a new shooter, don't suggest what you would do...suggest what's best for him.
Really.
As for .45 in a ban state, I'd still prefer 10 rounds of 9mm where i can actually practice regularly with and shoot accurately, than I would .45 which is more expensive and harder for most people to shoot well...especially NEW shooters.
Terminally the difference between .45 and 9mm is negligible. You're maybe talking a whopping 0.05" in difference in permanent cavity.
You are right that caliber is an obsession with many. And for those in a "normal" state the 9mm choice is clear.
You state that: "There is nothing wrong with prioritizing based on a budget." That is what most do and is why Kel-tec sells so well and Hi-point sells at all. I am not a fan of either.
So say I prioritize based upon cost of purchase and not cost of ownership. The initial purchase price of M+P or XD is $75-125 lower. So after a couple of years of active shooting will that M+P/XD have cost less than say a G4 Glock? Just one thing will make that answer clear. Say I want to accumulate 10 magazines. I buy 2 more genuine glock mags at $22 shipped free and 5 more KCI at $13 dollars each shipped free. Cost $109 extra. Now how much will the M+P or XD mags cost? M+P mags at over 30 each shipped free--$240 extra. XD mags are pretty competitive at low 20's say $24 shipped (with no aftermarket?) so that will be at least $192. So with that one issue the Glock is as cheap or cheaper to own. And those examples will keep going in the Glock's favor.
Glock does have the most aftermarket support, but they really need to fix their problems with the brass to the face for some of their pistols. I hope this is coming soon.
First handgun? Get a 1911 of some variety. It's what I started on at SEVEN. I was not put off by the recoil, so most adults shouldn't be either... My second choice (I know I'm in the minority here) would be an XD or XDM of some sort or a CZ75/clone.
Michael2007
01-07-13, 13:19
I'm glad the 19 worked well for you. I find with a few simple mods like a weapon light, tango down mag release and floor plates you will be even more floored with it. Pun most definitely intended.
I'm glad the 19 worked well for you. I find with a few simple mods like a weapon light, tango down mag release and floor plates you will be even more floored with it. Pun most definitely intended.
Thanks
I am purchasing it Wednesday, I found a pretty good deal on calguns, so 10 days after that, it's to the range I go.
EDIT: Seller didn't work out :[ I'm on a mission to find a glock 19 gen 3, before Serial #MXXXXX so I don't get hit in the face all day.
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