View Full Version : Worth Changing Lower?
Kevslatvin
12-31-12, 22:14
Hello, I have a question about an AR( M4gery) I built a few years ago( 07 I think). Unfortunately I didn't find this site till I was finished. I feel good about it for the most part as I was picky on what I wanted. Mainly M4 feed ramps and 1:7 twist as most other than Colt didn't seem to have this at the time. I'll get to my delima in a moment ,here are the specs:
For the lower I started with a DPMS stripped lower. I used a CMT lpk, CMT 6 pos. milspec reciver extension, CMT/Stag M4 stock, and a carbine buffer.
For the upper I got a completed upper from PK firearms consisting of a Sabre Defence 16 in.barrel. 1:7 twist, 5.56 chamber and M4 feed ramps, F marked fsb and std handgaurds mated to a CMT M4 flattop upper with M4 ramps. I used a CMT semi bcg. Cut down a AIM carry handle for a rear sight.
I put a H-buffer in after finding this site and now have a KAC RAS.
My question is would it be worth it to change the lower to a BCM, LMT, etc or just a waste of money. It went together good and fits to the upper good. Mags drop free(though I don't have any Pmags). Shoots fine though I don't have alot of rounds through it. Only problem I've ever had was I got two mags that don't always hold the bolt open on the last round but it seems to be a mag problem. The reason I ask is DPMS seems to really get a bad rap around here and it has me questioning the quality of my lower. I bought it local and all he sold was DPMS and Bushmaster. I thought from my web searching on TOS a Lower was a lower as long as it wasn't an Oly and pick a rollmark you like. I picked the DPMS. Honestly I just plink with it and it probably won't see more than acouple hundred rounds a year max. I have no plans to sell it so resale isn't an issue for me. Thanks for your advice.
My opinion? No, it is not worth it. Shoot it and if it works okay, you're good to go.
Why change it if it works. The only real difference between them (if they work) is the rollmark on the side.
If it functions well and you are satisfied with the fit and finish... then keep it, and shoot it until something breaks (if ever).
Is there the remotest possibility that this rifle will ever be used for self defense or see battle? Ever?
If yes, I would get the BCM or LMT, just for the peace of mind.
Besides, who doesn't want to have more lowers around? :D
Shoulderthinggoesup
12-31-12, 22:31
A lower is a lower is a lower. If your having problems change out the LPK, but no need to get rid of the receiver due to a roll mark that isn't cool.
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wetidlerjr
12-31-12, 22:48
I wouldn't worry about it. I have a BCM upper (SS410 16" Mid Length w/ PRI 12" BLACK HG) on a 10 year old Bushmaster lower that works and looks fine. It does have a SSA FCG and a UBR stock on it.
Kevslatvin
12-31-12, 22:50
Is there the remotest possibility that this rifle will ever be used for self defense or see battle? Ever?
If yes, I would get the BCM or LMT, just for the peace of mind.
:D
I hope not but I can't say for sure it won't. Never know what the future brings. In that situation I may grab my AK as I don't know if I have enough rounds through this rifle to fully trust it.
If I did change it I'd kinda like a Sabre lower to match my barrel but since they're out of business I don't expect to find a stripped one so something else would have to do.
I'm not going to say a lower is a lower, but if its forged, the mag well and pin holes are in spec; what's to gain by switching lowers? Another lower is an excuse for another rifle.
Most people with more than one AR usually have at least one mixmaster.
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roland.g.breden
01-01-13, 07:34
I was in the same boat for a while...but decided to just sbr the one I had. Glad i did. Works great and didn't have to deal with the panic buying now.
Im in the camp of keeping your lower. I've had nothing but good luck with the few DPMS lowers I have, all in spec, several thousand rounds through one, and never a problem.
Now their parts kits were another story, i bought 3, all three were missing something different, and they failed to respond to calls, emails, and actually reaching someone at the company. This was several years ago.
Buy another lower just for fun.
There are definite practical challenges to swapping out the lower at this point.
If it's in spec, then you're fine. I have a very unsavory rollmark from my first rifle, but it suits its purpose now.
Is there the remotest possibility that this rifle will ever be used for self defense or see battle? Ever?
If yes, I would get the BCM or LMT, just for the peace of mind.
Besides, who doesn't want to have more lowers around? :D
Thats a somewhat misleading statement. (except for the more lowers part) If the thing works its good. like another poster said they are pretty much all the same but for the roll mark.
The parts inside are important, so quality LPK a must.
If its working, screw it...don't waste your money. I'd consider changing three things to top quality manufacturers.
1)Get a BCM Bolt
2)Get a BCM, DD, or Noveske barrel
3)Get a LPK from one of the above manufacturers.
Change out these parts...sell the other stuff on TOS
clmarshall21
01-01-13, 09:07
Do not fool yourself for a second thinking that you are going to find a stripped lower any time soon! Besides, you don't need it anyways (unless you are just looking to pick up another lower, which is never a bad idea).
I will not say a lower is a lower... Cause I don't think that is always the case. But I do agree that if yours has no issues, keep it. The LPK is far more important to worry about than the DPMS lower. If your parts kit is good, you are set.
hotbiggun42
01-01-13, 09:30
A lower is a lower is a lower. If your having problems change out the LPK, but no need to get rid of the receiver due to a roll mark that isn't cool.
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What is wrong with a CMT LPK?
Hello, I have a question about an AR( M4gery) For the lower I started with a DPMS stripped lower. I used a CMT lpk, CMT 6 pos. milspec reciver extension, CMT/Stag M4 stock, and a . I bought it local and all he sold was DPMS and Bushmaster. I thought from my web searching on TOS a Lower was a lower as long as it wasn't an Oly and pick a rollmark you like. I picked the DPMS. Honestly I just plink with it and it probably won't see more than acouple hundred rounds a year max. I have no plans to sell it so resale isn't an issue for me. Thanks for your advice.
Cover the RM with a BCM sticker and call it a day...;)
I'm agreeing its a non question due to no lowers left on the planet!
I have a S&W lower, and S&W buffer tub, and castle nut. It fits my CTR stock (MIL SPEC), H1 buffer, and Carbine Spring, SSA-E trigger, P-mags, and metal Pro-mags work, therefore its fine for me. Sure, I would want a matching BCM lower for my upper, but it works fine.
And I cannot buy a lower :confused: For some reason only complete rifles.
Kevslatvin
01-01-13, 13:10
Thanks guys. I guess I will leave it alone( no choice for now as someone mentioned there are no lowers anyway), I guess I just needed to hear it is ok to have a DPMS lower as long as it works. I still like the look of the rollmark just not the bad stigma associated with it. I think other than picking up a BCM bcg I will call it a day.
Acouple replies did raise a new question on the barrel and LPK. I thought other than no parkenizing under the fsb the Sabre barrels were ok? According to the list they are a true 5.56 chamber and the steel is correct IIRC. I now know CMT isn't the best lpk but I thought they were acceptable? Thanks.
Leave it alone if it works....nothing wrong with your set-up, especially if it works!
Bulletdog
And WTF does your comment have to do with this thread? :rolleyes:
How does what lower that is attached to the upper change how it will function in a combat situation? If it fully functional as is, how would being used to defend oneself change it or make it nonfunctional?:rolleyes:
OP if it functions correctly - shoot the hell out it!:D
I love the "for peace of mind" comments, like the roll mark on the lower means dick if you have to pull the trigger for real. If you built it, it works, spend your money on other things instead of another lower.
Here is my "mix-master". Noveske 14.5" pinned Blackout 51T Switchblock upper (16" OAL), Mega lower with Geissele SSA, Noveske 60deg safety, Magpul furniture, Leupold MK4 1.5-5x CM-R2 in AD-Recon mount, Surefire X300. Magazines with MK318 OTM. Someone on the receiving end of this weapon will have no idea that the lower roll mark didn't match the upper.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/ARs/7DD1B2DF-0176-4138-BCC6-E5FD7A7AEA47-65464-0000116E8C8484C2.jpg
Rhino
DPMS is my least favorite brand in the world. However, if the lower is in spec and working then leave it alone and focus your energy on getting training, mags and ammo and small repair parts. Also, tube to put it in made from PVC.
hotbiggun42
01-01-13, 15:38
DPMS is my least favorite brand in the world. However, if the lower is in spec and working then leave it alone and focus your energy on getting training, mags and ammo and small repair parts. Also, tube to put it in made from PVC.
PVC tube?:)
PVC tube?:)
To bury it in the ground, apparently. :rolleyes:
glock_40_caliber
01-01-13, 16:41
Don't forget the cosmoline and vacuum sealed bag.
Most of the builds I did were on Bushy and DPMS lowers. No issues since 2005. Perhaps putting together a repair kit of the internal parts, especially springs, would be an idea. Spend the $$ you would on another lower right now on range time or training.
Edit: Friggin' spelling
clmarshall21
01-01-13, 17:04
...I guess I just needed to hear it is ok to have a DPMS lower as long as it works...
No!!! It is NOT ok to have a DPMS lower!!!! Strip it down and send it to me so I can dispose of it properly!!! Better yet, just send it to me as-is to save yourself from any additional exposure!!! :D
...Actually, I'm surprised that more folks didn't chime in telling you to scrap it! I'm sure you know as well as anyone that there is no need to fix what isn't broken.
As for the quality of your LPK, I don't know one way or another about CMT... I just wanted to point out that the moving parts of the lower are bigger problem areas than the receiver itself.
Kevslatvin
01-01-13, 20:02
No!!! It is NOT ok to have a DPMS lower!!!! Strip it down and send it to me so I can dispose of it properly!!! Better yet, just send it to me as-is to save yourself from any additional exposure!!! :D
I guess I better keep it since I'm already contaminated.:D
I'm in a similar situation. My first ever AR came with a DPMS lower that I still have to this day, but that original rifle is pretty much gone.
That DPMS lower is on my latest build which is all quality parts and easily 10x better than my first AR. I don't care for the rollmark, but the lower functions 100% and has been compatible with every magazine I've thrown at it.
I may try to find a subtle sticker I can put over the rollmark, but otherwise I'm not losing sleep.
skywalkrNCSU
01-02-13, 17:23
As long as it isn't some polymer lower and everything is in spec there is no need to change it out. If you don't like the rollmark you can make it harder to read with some krylon ;)
It's a lower and it works. Who cares about a freaking roll mark other than a bunch of fanboys out there that take pictures of their guns all day and don't ever shoot them?
Shoot the hell out of it. Besides, there isn't much of anything out there right now that isn't going to cost you a kidney!
Here's a new wrinkle, what if it was a Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorne lower and appeared to be in spec. We've all seen pictures of split Vulcan lowers. Guess they don't take mortaring very well.
JackyYeung
01-02-13, 21:07
I would rather carry an M1 Carbine than use anything with DPMS on it.
ramairthree
01-02-13, 21:52
if it is not broke,
don't break it.
yes, that is how i meant to say it.
every engine is not a blueprinted, top of the line engine.
I doubt there would be a whole lot of difference if the machine work was done proper the the lower is the same. Some may have better external finishing. There are a few forge companies that make the milspec 7075 lowers and they are all good to go. I would say you rifle/carbine is fine good parts etc. That being said,,, BCM, Colt and Daniel Defense would be the spare parts to buy as they become available.
What is wrong with a CMT LPK?
Absolutely nothing.
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