View Full Version : 1-4x CQB Functionality
I'm looking at a 1-4x optic to mount on my LMT MWS and I'm hoping to gather real world experience.The two optics I'm looking at are the Leupold 1-4x VX-R Patrol and the SWFA SS HD 1-4x Tactical as seen in links below.
Leupold:
http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-R-Patrol-30mm-Riflescope-P49444.aspx
SWFA:
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx
Which of these would function best in a red dot capacity at 1x while still being relatively precise at midrange distances on higher magnification? I discounted the Accupoint because the triangle reticle lacks any markings for range estimation though it seems more suited to 1x red dot duty.
The Leupold isn't a true 1X, that would make a big difference to me. You might want to consider the Accupoint German reticle with center dot, although it doesn't have any kind of BDC or mil-dots.
The appeal of the Leupold to me is price and reviews saying the illumination is easily visible in daylight. While not a true 1x would it be impaired as a red dot in 20-75 yard ranges? As I understand it, the appeal of a true 1x is being able to keep both eyes open, right?
SomeOtherGuy
01-01-13, 19:58
The SWFA 1-4x is in a class above the VX-R from what I've seen. Its illumination is at least as bright, probably brighter, it has a true 1x low end, and it's probably more rugged. The SWFA is probably the best 1-4x or similar scope under $1000. For a bit less money I also like the Weaver 1-5x models, the African / Dangerous Game model (no illumination) and the Tactical model (illumination and a slightly funky CIRT reticle).
The 1x scopes with a true 1x work well for close distance shooting - not quite as well as a red dot, but close enough for most purposes. The main drawback vs. an Aimpoint is needing to have your eye somewhat centered in the image and at a fairly specific distance from the tube for best sight picture, while with an Aimpoint as long as you can see the dot it doesn't matter how off-center you are or how far back your eye is from the scope.
With practice, most people can shoot with both eyes open even using magnifying scopes up into the 4x range - look up "Bindon aiming concept", then ignore all the hype that implies it only works with Trijicon products - it is a technique, not a technology. However, a true 1x makes it easier by letting both eyes work normally, instead of having your brain basically switch between them depending whether you are scanning or aiming.
Take a look at the MEOPTA ZD, its a very nice 1-4 scope with an Aimpoint bright dot and bdc.
It's a scope that gets over looked but is better than the two you are looking at currently.
Take a look at the MEOPTA ZD, its a very nice 1-4 scope with an Aimpoint bright dot and bdc.
It's a scope that gets over looked but is better than the two you are looking at currently.
It is indeed a very nice optic but the BDC is for 5.56 and this will be on a 7.62 MWS (not a huge deal for me) and the price is a bit higher than I was planning on (slightly bigger deal)
Take a look at the MEOPTA ZD, its a very nice 1-4 scope with an Aimpoint bright dot and bdc.
It's a scope that gets over looked but is better than the two you are looking at currently.
I was looking at the ZD when I went with the (T-reticle) SWFA. I only went with the latter because I was able to get in on a group buy, getting the scope, Bobro mount, caps, and cat-tail switch for about what the ZD cost by itself.
The SS works well for close-in shooting, no real complaints. (Works well for distance at 4X, of course.) I prefer an Aimpoint or EOTech for most of my shooting, as I don't use/need magnification very often. My wife now has the SS on her carbine and loves it for doing both RDS and magnified duty.
I think my two chief concerns beyond price are daytime visible illumination and some form of BDC
I think my two chief concerns beyond price are daytime visible illumination and some form of BDC
The leupold vxr is a viable option for the money. It's red dot is visible in the daylight. As stated, not a true one power. I've cleared houses with one but in the end went back to a red dot bc it was quicker and more suited for what I was doing.
I've run a short dot and nxs in the past. NXS was not visible in daylight, but was a nice optic. Short dot was nice but mucho $.
In my humble opinion the leupold will be sufficient for your intended use.
After doing some more thinking and research, and considering I intend to mount this optic on a 7.62 MWS which is capable of and deserving to be employed in longer range shooting, I am now leaning towards waiting for the SWFA 1-6x.
Am I incorrect in thinking that this would be better suited or is a 6x vs 4x max power kind of a moot point?
Failure2Stop
01-06-13, 14:49
After doing some more thinking and research, and considering I intend to mount this optic on a 7.62 MWS which is capable of and deserving to be employed in longer range shooting, I am now leaning towards waiting for the SWFA 1-6x.
Am I incorrect in thinking that this would be better suited or is a 6x vs 4x max power kind of a moot point?
Depends on your needs and expectations.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Depends on your needs and expectations.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Target shooting, mostly under 500 yards. Out farther when the opportunity presents itself. My experience with magnified optics is very limited in practice.
For your application, the Leupold would do well. It's close enough to 1x for your use. Your rifle doesn't sound like it would be used for CQB anyway.
In all honesty, I don't know I'd be looking at a 1-4 for your rifle anyway. Here is a good thread with some discussions on various setups folks are using. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80781
Truth be told, I don't know exactly what I want. I was thinking that a 1-4 or 1-6 would serve as a good target optic while still being usable as an all purpose defense optic in SHTF scenario. Not having much trigger time on the MWS yet, I don't know if I'd reach for that or my AK.
Burris MTAC is a contender to those scopes also
Failure2Stop
01-06-13, 20:46
Target shooting, mostly under 500 yards. Out farther when the opportunity presents itself. My experience with magnified optics is very limited in practice.
At what targets, specifically?
For example, iron sights are fine for 40" wide black circles on a white background at 600 meters. Trying to hit a partially obscured figure at the same range takes a bit more.
Reticle composition makes a big difference if you need to rapidly apply hold over instead of just dialing in known dope.
The more descriptive and realisitc you can be in your expectations the better the advice will be.
What specific target? I don't know to be honest.
As far as reticle, I know I want something with hash marks or dots of some sort. I want to be able to do hold over at known distances. That's what attracted me to the Leupold and SWFA. I looked at the nightforce 1-4 scopes and didn't care for the reticles.
Just breaking in my Sig 716 and came to the same opinion. A 1-6 would be my best option.
Alittle extra magnification to fully realize the capabilities of the round. IMO.
The burris xtr is a great option in this category. They have 1-4, and 1-6. The 1-4 used to have the 556 reticle, and the 1-6 had the 762 reticle. Last time i looked the 762 reticle was available on both. It might have been a typo.
The one i had came with a printed out conversion. You could use the 556 reticle on a 762, and the 762 reticle on a 556. It only included some popular factory/mil loads, but the ballistic reticle is pretty simple to make work with any caliber. In the manual it shows exactly how many inches each stadia line is from the main aiming dot.
I just got a fullfield e1 with a similar reticle the only difference is it has dots for a ten mile an hour wind at that distance. If you Google the ballistic plex reticle you can see the difference between the 556, and 762 version.
They should fit exactly what you need. The glass is very clear. I was very surprised with the quality. I have not seen the ss 1-4 or 1-6. They probably have better glass from what i hear about them. The burris is a true 1x, and the xtr has a donut/ dot style reticle with the stadia lines. The illumination is daylight usable.
It is just an option, and seems to fill all your requirements.
Failure2Stop
01-08-13, 07:25
The burris xtr is a great option in this category. They have 1-4, and 1-6. The 1-4 used to have the 556 reticle, and the 1-6 had the 762 reticle. Last time i looked the 762 reticle was available on both. It might have been a typo.
Are you sure it is a 1-6?
Are you sure it is a 1-6?
I made a mistake there is the 1-4, and the 1.5-6.
I just installed the Burris Mtac 1.5-6x42 on my Colt M4. It's a bit bigger and heavier than I wanted on a carbine which is so light and handy, but it does work well. I was only able to sight it in briefly at 100 yards over the weekend, and got it dialed in pretty well for sub two inch groups, rested just casually shooting. This weekend I'll try to dial it in a little more, and also shoot offhand. I got the quick release Burris PEPR QD mount which is claimed to hold zero, so I'll test that as well. My goal is to switch off between this scope which is probably overkill for what I want from a carbine to an Aimpoint RDS. Prolly should have just got the RDS to begin with, but I do like seeing those targets better at long ranges 100 yds and over. A 1 - 4 is probably more versatile, but I got a great deal on the 1.5-6 so took the plunge. Still somewhat debating on keeping it, but probably will because it does seem to be a really nice scope for the $$$.
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