LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier Testing [Archive]

Iraqgunz

01-02-13, 22:00

It seems there have been numerous questions regarding the LMT enhanced bolt carrier and its' function in various set ups. So I decided to go out and do some basic function testing to satisfy my curiosity.

Test 1.

20" Colt M16A2 barreled upper receiver, A2 flash hider with Vltor A5, Vltor H3 buffer and green Springco spring.

Following ammo was test fired.

1. Hornady 75gr. Steel Match
2. Lake City M855
3. Federal M193
4. S&B M193
5. Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 (M855 clone)
6. PMC 55gr. Bronze Line

I fired 10 rounds of each using Magpul PMAG's. All ammuntion cycled 100% and lock back was 100%.

Test 2.

16" BCM Midlength barreled upper receiver, A2 flash hider with Vltor A5, Vltor H3 buffer and green Springco spring.

Following ammo was test fired.

1. Hornady 75gr. Steel Match
2. Lake City M855
3. Federal M193
4. S&B M193
5. Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 (M855 clone)
6. PMC 55gr. Bronze Line

I fired 10 rounds of each using Magpul PMAG's. All ammuntion cycled 100% and lock back was 100%

Test 3.

16" BCM Midlength barreled upper receiver, A2 flash hider with standard carbine spring and H buffer.

Following ammo was test fired.

1. Hornady 75gr. Steel Match
2. Lake City M855
3. Federal M193
4. S&B M193
5. Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 (M855 clone)
6. PMC 55gr. Bronze Line

I fired 10 rounds of each using Magpul PMAG's. All ammuntion cycled 100% and lock back was 100%.

Test 4.

16" Colt carbine upper receiver with Z-Comp, and Vltor A5, Vltor H3, and green Springco spring.

Following ammo was test fired.

1. Hornady 75gr. Steel Match
2. Lake City M855
3. Federal M193
4. S&B M193
5. Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 (M855 clone)
6. PMC 55gr. Bronze Line

I fired 10 rounds of each using Magpul PMAG's. All ammuntion cycled 100% and lock back was 100%.

In all 3 different uppers (rifle, carbine and midlength) with various ammunition types and lower configurations and all rounds fired and functioned 100%.

constructor

01-02-13, 22:31

They have always said it was to delay the cycle in carbines, kind of correcting the over-gassed issues.
If you took a normal carrier and shot it in a carbine then used the LMT carrier in the same carbine with the same ammo do you think it would change the ejection angle?

jaxman7

01-02-13, 22:35

Iraqgunz

01-02-13, 22:47

I didn't really pay attention to "ejection angles". Everything cycled fine and IIRC ejection was something like 300 o'clock. I have shot all those uppers with standard BGC's and honestly I didn't see much of a difference.

They have always said it was to delay the cycle in carbines, kind of correcting the over-gassed issues.
If you took a normal carrier and shot it in a carbine then used the LMT carrier in the same carbine with the same ammo do you think it would change the ejection angle?

Iraqgunz

01-02-13, 22:50

I would expect that the 14.5" would be good.

IG,

Thanks for taking the time to do the tests. Any chance of doing this with a 14.5" middie? I have a lower set up with an A5 with Vltor's H3 and just ordered a 14.5" middie along with a LMT enhanced carrier and their standard bolt. It will have BCM's MOD 1 comp.

I will post my results but it may take some time to get it all together. The BCG was ordered from another member. The comp from Grant and barrel from BCM.

Been a long time fan of the 16" mid length but decided to try something different. Thanks ,

-Jax

BufordTJustice

01-02-13, 23:26

IG,

Thanks for taking the time to do the tests. Any chance of doing this with a 14.5" middie? I have a lower set up with an A5 with Vltor's H3 and just ordered a 14.5" middie along with a LMT enhanced carrier and their standard bolt. It will have BCM's MOD 1 comp.

I will post my results but it may take some time to get it all together. The BCG was ordered from another member. The comp from Grant and barrel from BCM.

Been a long time fan of the 16" mid length but decided to try something different. Thanks ,

-Jax

You've actually described my duty carbine setup. ;)

I have a thread in the Tech forum about this. BCM 14.5" middy, FSC556, A5H3, springco Green. I also use mine with a std LMT bolt and a springco extractor spring. 100% on everything I've run through it.

My Thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109353

Magic_Salad0892

01-02-13, 23:50

BufordTJustice

01-03-13, 01:04

I think the reason that IG didn't see a difference is that the uppers he was running are good uppers that would've functioned fine without it.

IMHO, the LMT Enhanced carrier works better for SBR carbines, suppressor, or problem guns. It helps bleed off gas for overgassed guns, and helps cycle undergassed guns.

(I actually think a 14.5'' SOCOM barreled carbine with LMT Enhanced Carrier, and VLTOR A5 is kind of a brilliant setup.)

I appreciate IG doing the tests, and the guns not failing paints part of the picture.

I would pose the question that, if all of these properly ported guns ran 100%, does this either redefine what is "over gassed", or does it broaden the application for this part far beyond fixing over gassed carbines?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Iraqgunz

01-03-13, 01:39

The conclusion I reached is that it functions normally as a normal carrier and then performs it's other job once suppressed or with an SBR.

I use it when I run my 11.5" and 12.5" suppressed and I can tell the difference. YMMV

I would pose the question that, if all of these properly ported guns ran 100%, does this either redefine what is "over gassed", or does it broaden the application for this part far beyond fixing over gassed carbines?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

BufordTJustice

01-03-13, 02:42

The conclusion I reached is that it functions normally as a normal carrier and then performs it's other job once suppressed or with an SBR.

I use it when I run my 11.5" and 12.5" suppressed and I can tell the difference. YMMV

I concur.

It works so well in "standard format" AR15 gas systems and barrel lengths, I've started to rec it to my buddies who have quality guns (Colt/LMT/DD/BCM) even when they haven't had any problems with their std carriers. I find that a slightly softer recoil impulse results when I use the E-carrier. The difference is much more subtle on my BCM 14.5" middy than on, say a 6920. The difference is huge on a Bushy.

I'm guessing that the delayed cam pin track makes up for the extra gas vent (and consequent faster depressurizing of the system)....allowing chamber pressures to fall that much more before initiating extraction. I haven't had one malfunction that I could attribute to the E-carrier yet.

I don't have the equipment to do a cyclic-rate test for the E-carrier vice the std carrier...but that would be some real interesting reading.

eperk

01-03-13, 06:28

I have their enhanced bolt in a regular LMT Ar15 carrier. It functions well, other than that it's a heck of a lot easier to clean.

markm

01-03-13, 06:49

C45P312

01-03-13, 08:32

The conclusion I reached is that it functions normally as a normal carrier and then performs it's other job once suppressed or with an SBR.

I use it when I run my 11.5" and 12.5" suppressed and I can tell the difference. YMMV
So you actually run the LMT Enhanced Carrier with standard bolt in your SBRs? I have a spare LMT Enhanced Carrier with FN Bolt that I was thinking about dropping it into my 10.5in carbine.

wesessiah

01-03-13, 08:32

thanks for the testing. i ordered one a while back and i'm unsure of what kinda of upper setup i'm going to do with it. if it's something that hasn't been posted when i figure it up i'll add my findings.

RGoose

01-03-13, 08:53

IG, thank you for taking the time to perform these test and posting your real, end user results. There's a lot of misinformation that is perpetuated by those that spend a little too much behind the keyboard and not enough time behind the gun.

As soon as I can locate one or two enhanced carriers for my SBRs, I will scoop them based upon your previous recommendations. Both my SBRs run well, but noticeably smoothed out once I changed over to the A5 receiver extension, green Springco spring, and AH4 buffer. Again another recommendation you made based upon your actual experiences.

Thank you again for helping to make this board a viable and worthwhile community.

jaxman7

01-03-13, 09:04

You've actually described my duty carbine setup. ;)

I have a thread in the Tech forum about this. BCM 14.5" middy, FSC556, A5H3, springco Green. I also use mine with a std LMT bolt and a springco extractor spring. 100% on everything I've run through it.

My Thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109353

Buford T.

I am very aware of that thread. One of my all time favorites.
Thanks,

-Jax

Iraqgunz

01-03-13, 10:31

Correct. I wasn't sold on the bolt design and wanted parts that were easily located.

So you actually run the LMT Enhanced Carrier with standard bolt in your SBRs? I have a spare LMT Enhanced Carrier with FN Bolt that I was thinking about dropping it into my 10.5in carbine.

Magic_Salad0892

01-03-13, 13:36

So you actually run the LMT Enhanced Carrier with standard bolt in your SBRs? I have a spare LMT Enhanced Carrier with FN Bolt that I was thinking about dropping it into my 10.5in carbine.

I've run the Enhanced Carrier with KAC bolts (and E3 barrels), and am now running them with Colt bolts (and Colt barrels). They work fine.

BufordTJustice

01-03-13, 17:00

Has anyone noticed any peening on the Barrel extension or the protrusion at the front of the Carrier itself?

That's the part that made me a little nervous.... a non-flat surface slamming into the Barrel extension.

Nope. The lip fits into the concave portion of the extension.

No abnormal wear pattern.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Ferris2son

01-03-13, 22:16

Will you be posting any test data with an SBR suppressed and unsuppressed?

bruin

01-04-13, 00:33

Test 2.

16" BCM Midlength barreled upper receiver, A2 flash hider with Vltor A5, Vltor H3 buffer and green Springco spring.

Following ammo was test fired.

1. Hornady 75gr. Steel Match
2. Lake City M855
3. Federal M193
4. S&B M193
5. Prvi Partizan 62gr. SS109 (M855 clone)
6. PMC 55gr. Bronze Line

I fired 10 rounds of each using Magpul PMAG's. All ammuntion cycled 100% and lock back was 100%
Superb, thank you IG. This is my setup, except with a FN barrel and Griffin Flash Comp. Bolt is LMT with Sprinco extractor spring. I also polished the carrier rails and bearing surfaces per BufordTJustice's advice, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.

Any thoughts on the E-carrier with 300BLK?

Iraqgunz

01-04-13, 00:35

I shoot my 12.5" and 11.5" BCM uppers suppressed all the time with these carriers. Also, unsuppressed as well.

Will you be posting any test data with an SBR suppressed and unsuppressed?

LostinKY

01-04-13, 18:44

What about the SA version of the E-bolt carrier?

They make it for a reason so where would it be the right carrier?

BufordTJustice

01-04-13, 19:19

What about the SA version of the E-bolt carrier?

They make it for a reason so where would it be the right carrier?

I'm assuming that is more of a ban state item.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

jwperry

01-04-13, 20:19

So I think the purpose of this thread was to teach me to stop over analyzing things I have no experience with and to not have traded away my enhanced carriers? :D
I'll be interested to read about more usage of these in SBR (specifically 11.5")and 14.5" middies since I had concerns regarding reliability of the enhanced carriers in this particular varieties.

markm

02-04-13, 07:53

One of Pappabear's Noveske 16" guns wouldn't lock back on the last round with the Enhanced carrier this Saturday.

We swapped the BCG out to test the gun with a standard carrier, and the problem went away.

We then stuck the Enhanced BCG into my suppressed 11.5 upper and it ran and locked back fine.

Magic_Salad0892

02-04-13, 07:56

jaxman7

02-04-13, 08:06

Was the enhanced carrier a new addition to the Noveske or did it just decide to quit working all of a sudden?

-Jax

markm

02-04-13, 08:18

I'll have to ask PB what gas system it was. He's got too many builds to keep track of.:rolleyes:

It was a new addition to the upper. Ran fine... just wouldn't lock back. It didn't feel or eject as though it was under gassed at all.

LRB45

02-04-13, 08:25

jaxman7

02-04-13, 08:33

I'm kind of a visual type of guy so I was just wondering if anyone has pictures of both a standard bolt carrier group and the enhanced one side by side to see any differences in the two?

This was the complete bcg as it comes from LMT, correct?

Thanks

The clean one is an LMT enhanced carrier. The oiled one is a BCM BCG

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/2013-01-14_19-04-52_77_zpsf97d7ee2.jpg

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/2013-01-14_19-04-21_622_zps3c8bc308.jpg

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/2013-01-14_19-03-44_700_zps9c9c35fd.jpg

LRB45

02-04-13, 08:50

Thanks!

A few subtle differences that I see. I'm taking that the LMT bcg is just slightly heavier?

Pappabear

02-04-13, 08:54

Was the 16'' gun CAR gas?

If it was mid, that's why. It was bleeding too much gas.

Middy was the culprit. We are planning some test next week. We are going to run in 16 carbines, and a couple 11.5's. I bought a couple right when panic buying started so they gotta find a happy home.

Great thread IG, good to know these should run on 16 carbines. We will do a follow up next week.

markm

02-04-13, 08:56

Great thread IG, good to know these should run on 16 carbines. We will do a follow up next week.

We should invite old Gunzy Wunzy out to shoot with us! :eek:

TMS951

02-04-13, 09:04

Has any one had a gun that short stroked and then fully cycled with the enhanced carrier?

I have a Legacy KAC upper that short strokes underpowered ammo with my Vltor A5-A2.

I may just put in a lighter buffer, but if the Enhanced carrier can extend the operating range of my upper I would like that. I have a carrier to try, I have just been to lazy to get out there.

markm

02-04-13, 09:23

Has any one had a gun that short stroked and then fully cycled with the enhanced carrier?

I thought the thing was for overgassed guns. :confused:

Pappabear

02-04-13, 10:05

TMS951

02-04-13, 10:20

I thought the thing was for overgassed guns. :confused:

If its short stroking , the enhanced is going to worsen that issue. Especially with a KAC mid+length upper.

I am totally on board with this, and it is always what I had thought. However Magic_Salad posts things like the bellow and it goes unchallenged by SMEs or more respected posters, so I thought I'd ask.

It helps bleed off gas for overgassed guns, and helps cycle undergassed guns.

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 12:27

Full Auto carriers are legal everywhere( AFAIK) except where people don't know better.

I'm assuming that is more of a ban state item.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 12:30

Except I ran one in a new middy Carbine and it worked.

Was the 16'' gun CAR gas?

If it was mid, that's why. It was bleeding too much gas.

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 12:32

Your gun is short stroking because you are using underpowered ammo contrary to what KAC recommends. You have a smaller port and need to run hot ammo.

Has any one had a gun that short stroked and then fully cycled with the enhanced carrier?

I have a Legacy KAC upper that short strokes underpowered ammo with my Vltor A5-A2.

I may just put in a lighter buffer, but if the Enhanced carrier can extend the operating range of my upper I would like that. I have a carrier to try, I have just been to lazy to get out there.

TMS951

02-04-13, 14:14

Your gun is short stroking because you are using underpowered ammo contrary to what KAC recommends. You have a smaller port and need to run hot ammo.

I understand that, at this point I just use the KAC upper on a lower with a carbine buffer and spring and it is not a problem.

I understand not using the cheap ammo, but until the ammo market becomes same again a I prefer to shoot my cheaper steel case stuff and not dip into all my 5.56 brass case stuff.

It never made sense to me that the enhanced carrier would help underpowered ammo. Now I know Magic_Salad doesn't actually know what he's talking about, just wanted to check first though.

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 14:33

I didn't catch that statement until now. I don't see how it could reduce gas on one hand and help with underpowered on another. But, I tend to focus on more practical matters and things that I have actually tried out and that I know work based upon actual testing.

I understand that, at this point I just use the KAC upper on a lower with a carbine buffer and spring and it is not a problem.

I understand not using the cheap ammo, but until the ammo market becomes same again a I prefer to shoot my cheaper steel case stuff and not dip into all my 5.56 brass case stuff.

It never made sense to me that the enhanced carrier would help underpowered ammo. Now I know Magic_Salad doesn't actually know what he's talking about, just wanted to check first though.

eesmith4

02-04-13, 15:33

I keep hearing about how DD MK18 10.3" uppers have an excessively large gas port, sounds like the enhanced carrier would be the ticket to reduce wear and tear on the bolt.

markm

02-04-13, 15:48

I keep hearing about how DD MK18 10.3" uppers have an excessively large gas port, sounds like the enhanced carrier would be the ticket to reduce wear and tear on the bolt.

I'm not sure how/if the carrier works or does something different...

I mean... I can see it has an additional gas exhaust port.

But addressing overgassing at the end of the cycle strikes me as less than optimal.

TMS951

02-04-13, 16:14

The geometry of the cam pin track is different unlocking the bolt later, so it may in fact help the life of the bolt.

eesmith4

02-04-13, 16:49

The geometry of the cam pin track is different unlocking the bolt later, so it may in fact help the life of the bolt.

That's kind of what I was thinking.

Magic_Salad0892

02-04-13, 19:06

However Magic_Salad posts things like the bellow and it goes unchallenged by SMEs or more respected posters, so I thought I'd ask.

I'm talking primarily about SBRs when I say that. I should've clarified.

There are always going to be exceptions due to ammo, mags, etc. But the enhanced system was designed for CAR gas systems. So that's the envelope I'm referring to.

Magic_Salad0892

02-04-13, 19:08

Except I ran one in a new middy Carbine and it worked.

I'd bet your middy had a slightly bigger port then.

If not, then I guess I'm wrong.

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 19:30

It was a BCM so I doubt it was too large.

I'd bet your middy had a slightly bigger port then.

If not, then I guess I'm wrong.

Pappabear

02-04-13, 20:34

I'd bet your middy had a slightly bigger port then.

If not, then I guess I'm wrong.

Mine ran like champ , it just didn't lock back. I was shooting reloads that were not real hot. XM193 might have worked fine.

I'm going give these carriers a bigger run , as stated earlier.

jaxman7

02-04-13, 21:07

I've had good luck so far with my LMT e-carrier with my new setup using the weakest ammo I shoot on average-PMC .223 bronze 55g FMJBT. Chrono'd out of my 16" gun at 2650 fps.

Setup is an A5H2, green springco, e-carrier w/standard LMT bolt, 14.5" BCM middy, Vltor MUR1A, and BC comp. Third or so mag right after assembly failed to lock back. Week before last I placed 16 PMAGs in front of me. Each with one bronze round. Fired everyone off shoulder and one handed. Locked back every mag. Sample of one but has worked for me so far.

-Jax

MikeCLeonard

02-04-13, 22:19

It's my understanding that the e-carriers can also help under-gassed guns cycle completely by using the increased angle of the cam-pin track, which slows down the rate at which the bolt unlocks. If the bolt is able to extract the spent shell more easily under less pressure due to this delay, I would reason that it would be making more efficient use of it's rearward energy...allowing it to cycle completely on less gas. (less-energy wasted on tugging the shell out of the chamber)

I could be wrong on this, but it's the only way I've been able to make sense of the testing Grant did with his small-port SBR's. He effectively under-gassed his rifles, and ran them successfully only when using the e-carriers.

I've got two pending SBR's which I'm going to use to test this. 14.5" barrels cut to 11.5" without opening the gas-ports, Enhanced carriers, and Vltor A5 buffer assemblies. I'm very interested to see what happens :D

Iraqgunz

02-04-13, 22:22

If you want to know, just shoot them without a buttstock aka AR pistol and you will know now.

It's my understanding that the e-carriers can also help under-gassed guns cycle completely by using the increased angle of the cam-pin track, which slows down the rate at which the bolt unlocks. If the bolt is able to extract the spent shell more easily under less pressure due to this delay, I would reason that it would be making more efficient use of it's rearward energy...allowing it to cycle completely on less gas. (less-energy wasted on tugging the shell out of the chamber)

I could be wrong on this, but it's the only way I've been able to make sense of the testing Grant did with his small-port SBR's. He effectively under-gassed his rifles, and ran them successfully only when using the e-carriers.

I've got two pending SBR's which I'm going to use to test this. 14.5" barrels cut to 11.5" without opening the gas-ports, Enhanced carriers, and Vltor A5 buffer assemblies. I'm very interested to see what happens :D

MikeCLeonard

02-04-13, 22:39

If you want to know, just shoot them without a buttstock aka AR pistol and you will know now.

You know, sometimes I think I might be half-stupid...because I never even thought about trying them out prior to approval without the stocks!

I have a few different A5 buffer weights, and think I'll try out some of the weak 62gr. Wolf and full-power 62 gr. Federal M855 and report back with my findings.

Thank you for the idea Sir! :p

ZINCOGNITO

02-05-13, 00:53

Looking forward to reading your finding!

Magic_Salad0892

02-05-13, 04:09

It was a BCM so I doubt it was too large.

After I read Pappabear's post about running weak reloads it struck me that I didn't ask what kind of ammo you guys were running.

BCM's MID gas port is like .071'' or so right?

Iraqgunz

02-05-13, 04:40

Closer to .076. I generally don't shoot weak ammo. The weakest is probably PMC Bronze Line.

After I read Pappabear's post about running weak reloads it struck me that I didn't ask what kind of ammo you guys were running.

BCM's MID gas port is like .071'' or so right?

Magic_Salad0892

02-05-13, 05:40

Closer to .076. I generally don't shoot weak ammo. The weakest is probably PMC Bronze Line.

That explains it.

IIRC, Noveske's ports are .071'' or so. But I cannot confirm.

With weak enough ammo, it'd be enough to cycle the gun reliably (and soften it up), but not lock back.

markm

02-05-13, 06:42

After I read Pappabear's post about running weak reloads

He's nuts. I don't load weak ammo unless specified for a mission. :sarcastic:

Any ammo run is near, at, or over published max.

sdacbob

02-05-13, 06:56

PSA 10.5" upper with an A2 FH, ST2 buffer, LMT enhanced semi auto bolt carrier with standard bolt.
2x30rd mags of 5.56mm M193, bolt locked back on empty
2x30 rd mags of 55gr Fiochii .223, bolt locked back on empty
1x20rd Pmag of PPU .223 75gr match, bolt locked back on empty
2x30rd mags of 62gr .223 silver bear, bolt locked back on empty
2x30rd mags of 62gr .223 brown bear, bolt locked back on empty
2X30rd mags of 75gr .223 wolf steel case, bolt locked back on empty

No misfeeds, short strokes or stoppages.

Magic_Salad0892

02-05-13, 08:11

He's nuts. I don't load weak ammo unless specified for a mission. :sarcastic:

Any ammo run is near, at, or over published max.

You should put together a subsonic 5.56mm load. For teh lolz.

Pappabear

02-10-13, 00:27

He's nuts. I don't load weak ammo unless specified for a mission. :sarcastic:

Any ammo run is near, at, or over published max.

Im definitely nuts, I should say, its solid 223 , but not primer popping smoking hot 5.56 usually. Even though we just started a new scorcher for a MK262 load that is tities plus!

I was thinking I may have been able to get lock back with some primer popper ammo, but I rarely run it, so who gives ****. I want my shit to run on everything, no excuses.

We did test two LMT enhanced carriers on two 11.5's. One suppressed and one with a Battle Comp. Both had A5's. We ran Brown Bear, Wolf, 77 grain SMK's and Nosler 69"s Match. It ran everything and locked everything back.

markm

02-10-13, 09:34

You should put together a subsonic 5.56mm load. For teh lolz.

I have. Shot em out in the back yard.

LRB45

02-10-13, 11:50

Im definitely nuts, I should say, its solid 223 , but not primer popping smoking hot 5.56 usually. Even though we just started a new scorcher for a MK262 load that is tities plus!

I was thinking I may have been able to get lock back with some primer popper ammo, but I rarely run it, so who gives ****. I want my shit to run on everything, no excuses.

We did test two LMT enhanced carriers on two 11.5's. One suppressed and one with a Battle Comp. Both had A5's. We ran Brown Bear, Wolf, 77 grain SMK's and Nosler 69"s Match. It ran everything and locked everything back.

Are you guys running the complete enhanced BCG or just the enhanced carriers?

Heavy Metal

02-10-13, 11:56

I wish somebody would make a standard carrier with the LMT Enhanced cam track for guns that can't stand the extra gas bleed.

Frankly, that cam path alone would benefit any AR.

Pappabear

02-10-13, 12:47

Are you guys running the complete enhanced BCG or just the enhanced carriers?

One was the full on carrier with LMT Enhanced bolt , the other had a BCM BOLT in it.

jerrysimons

06-05-13, 11:39

Pappabear

06-05-13, 11:55

My issue may have been a BREAK IN ISSUE, but not sure. Can't remember if I went back to it and tried again. All that stuff was new on the gun.

I did have that issue though.

jaxman7

06-05-13, 12:33

I tHought BCM used smaller gas ports than Noveske? At least from reading many threads on the Vltor A5 and use in a 14.5 mids, statements from Todd K suggested Noveske's gas ports are slightly bigger than BCM. Odd that Igunz 16" BCM Mid setup would run with a e-carrier and A5H3 but the Noveske 16" mid would not.
Also if Pappabear is having problems with a Noveske 16" mid and e-carrier, how are you guys getting away with running an e-carrier and a A5H3 with BCM 14.5" mids (Jaxman, BufordTJustice)?

I honestly have run mostly 5.56 pressure ammo in both my uppers that are 14.5 middies running on an A5H3. One is a BCM barrel w/the E-carrier. The other a DD LW w/a standard BCM bolt.

Both run like champs with the H3. As mentioned most of my shooting with them have been with 5.56 pressure stuff after my precious PMC Bronze stash ran out but it ran perfect on that as well.

This is a finer threshold functioning setup as opposed to a 16" middy so every little thing you can do to smooth operation and improve performance helps. Taking Buford T's cues I polished the rails in both carriers and installed McFarland gas rings. Did I run a lot of rounds through it before doing this to see if it would work? No but it does work as is and quite well and extremely smooth.

Everyone who pulls back the charging handle on either of those two rifles comments on how smooth it is. Reducing friction can only help.

-Jax

Robb Jensen

06-05-13, 17:04

My BFH 16" mid LW w/A5 buffer, w/LMT enhanced carrier wouldn't lock back with PMC Bronze ammo in 36 degree weather this winter, ran fine with LC M855 ammo same morning.

BufordTJustice

06-06-13, 08:21

I thought BCM used smaller gas ports than Noveske? At least from reading many threads on the Vltor A5 and use in a 14.5 mids, statements from Todd K suggested Noveske's gas ports are slightly bigger than BCM. Odd that Igunz 16" BCM Mid setup would run with a e-carrier and A5H3 but the Noveske 16" mid would not.
Also if Pappabear is having problems with a Noveske 16" mid and e-carrier, how are you guys getting away with running an e-carrier and a A5H3 with BCM 14.5" mids (Jaxman, BufordTJustice)?

Jaxman said it. It could be as little as the difference between finish wear on the interior of one upper over the other (or one carrier over the other). Friction plays a big part when you set your gun to run like this. Get rid of the phosphate-on-phosphate friction and you open yourself up to some really smooth running guns.

I have actually have been running a VERY light coat of Shell #7 Aerogrease on the rails of the carrier, tail of the carrier, and the interior of the upper to great effect. It is literally a thin film that, if I didn't tell you about, you probably couldn't even see. That layer, plus a "floater" of Slip 2000 EWL applied normally makes things feel just as slick as when I used to run an NiB carrier.

BufordTJustice

06-06-13, 08:22

My BFH 16" mid LW w/A5 buffer, w/LMT enhanced carrier wouldn't lock back with PMC Bronze ammo in 36 degree weather this winter, ran fine with LC M855 ammo same morning.

PMC is good practice ammo, but I've found it to be consistently inconsistent in velocity and generally pretty weak. Has that been your experience, Rob?

markm

06-06-13, 08:28

I've seen some hotter and milder versions posted here. There's been a lot of different Chrono data posted on the hot and cold ends of the spectrum.

jaxman7

06-06-13, 08:42

PMC is good practice ammo, but I've found it to be consistently inconsistent in velocity and generally pretty weak. Has that been your experience, Rob?

Yeah I've chrono'd it as low as 2650 fps and as high as around 2870 I believe out of my old 16" DD barrel.

-Jax

Robb Jensen

06-06-13, 09:12

PMC is good practice ammo, but I've found it to be consistently inconsistent in velocity and generally pretty weak. Has that been your experience, Robb?

Better now vs 3-4 yrs ago back then it wouldn't cycle some guns. Even out out of my melonited BCM SS410 18" rifle gas bbl on my 3 gun rifle I'm only getting 3014fps muzzle velocity.

BufordTJustice

06-06-13, 09:23

Better now vs 3-4 yrs ago back then it wouldn't cycle some guns. Even out out of my melonited BCM SS410 18" rifle gas bbl on my 3 gun rifle I'm only getting 3014fps muzzle velocity.

Holy shit that was slow!

Thanks for the info, sir.

markm

06-06-13, 10:01

Holy shit that was slow!

Thanks for the info, sir.

I remember that ammo. It would short stroke 20 inch Rifles. I tried it when Robb posted about it... and sure enough, it was struggling in my 20.

MrSmitty

06-06-13, 11:55

Bronze was the only ammo that has ever given me trouble in my A5/enhanced carrier combo. The lot had had seemed to be very inconsistent, some felt like the M193 that I have and some would short stroke. This was summer.

kaltesherz

07-16-13, 23:15

Anyone have any leads on who has one of these (stripped) in stock?

ShadowMoses

06-07-17, 12:07

Super old thread, yeah. I get it. New question that's relevant, but would rather not start a new thread.

Has anybody tried one of these in a 11.5" SBR *without* the A5 system?

Looking to drop this into my Knight's SR-15 Mod 2 11.5" SBR with factory supplied HH (H2) buffer. Looking to use it suppressed and unsuppressed with a QDC 5.56.

Any help is appreciated.

Cheers

Pappabear

06-07-17, 15:20

firefighter37

06-07-17, 18:23

yes, you wont have any problems. good luck.

As long as the knights system accepts it. I know their stuff is somewhat proprietary, but a Knights guy can answer. I had one SR15 but sold it long ago.

PB

It will work with the E3 bolt system, as it uses a standard full auto carrier. I have yet to try it in my SR-15 SBR, but its on my list of things to do.

The gun shoots so well, I am reluctant to mess with it.

Jwknutson17

06-07-17, 18:37

I don't see much need to in a CQB Mod 2 11.5. Just toss in an H3 and rock on. No need to mess with it further. The e carrier has its benifits in some SBRs but I do not use them in properly ported rifles.

Iraqgunz

06-07-17, 19:00

Like I tell people all the time in class, go out and experiment and see what happens.

It will work with the E3 bolt system, as it uses a standard full auto carrier. I have yet to try it in my SR-15 SBR, but its on my list of things to do.

The gun shoots so well, I am reluctant to mess with it.

nightchief

06-07-17, 19:39

I am running an LMT E carrier/BCM bolt with a BCM 11.5" ELW barreled upper, carbine RE, H3 buffer and Sprinco "hot white" action spring. Several hundred unsuppressed rounds (Wolf Gold, GECO 223, Fed XM193, IMI M193, PMC Bronze, BH 556 77gr OTM/TMK) with no problem. I started running the LMT carrier in January, so its seen some "Texas cold" weather. I haven't run it on a 100+ degree day yet. Will be seeing how it operates suppressed in a few days.

NC