View Full Version : Vltor Fortis (Bren Ten) update?
The most recent update I could find was from about 2009-2010. Anyone know the status of this project?
The project was abandoned and the man behind the project is no longer with Vltor.
Would that be Eric Kincel?
The curse strikes again!
Alaskapopo
01-04-13, 04:53
The project was abandoned and the man behind the project is no longer with Vltor.
Damn I wanted one of these.
Pat
Gary1911A1
01-04-13, 06:17
The project was abandoned and the man behind the project is no longer with Vltor.
Did not know that. I wanted one too, but in this day of polymer striker fired pistols the Bren is outdated. The again some say the same of the 1911.:)
Alaskapopo
01-04-13, 06:26
I wanted one for Nostalga. When I was a kid I loved the way that gun looked. The finish on it actually looked blue not black.
Pat
I should have swiped the pistol I had in my hands when I was at Vltor. :(
I know for fact, that for about $15K, you could buy ALL of the Bren Ten prints and a trunk full of parts including a few receivers. A magazine to go with it is going to cost you a small fortune though...
TriviaMonster
01-04-13, 07:08
Any discussion of the Fortis may result in a black hole opening upon the surface of the Earth and swallowing all of our resources and magazines.
Its funny how we never traded a little bit of freedom of religion after the Jonestown Massacre.
So is the only fascination with this pistol nostalgia, or is there something great about it that I'm missing?
i.e. Why would you buy this over a Glock 20 if you wanted a 10mm?
So is the only fascination with this pistol nostalgia, or is there something great about it that I'm missing?
i.e. Why would you buy this over a Glock 20 if you wanted a 10mm?
You are missing nothing... This thread needs pictures.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSgsFMQ_5lpY2ZkrLbfdTDzuob8sOb_1FaHn9cJGA8ML0_qKA6CQ
I believe in a few episodes Sonny carried a S&W 1006. Probably because he could get magazines for it and when you get down to the nitty-gritty, it was a much better pistol. They can still be found, for relatively low cost on Gunbroker.
I believe in a few episodes Sonny carried a S&W 1006. Probably because he could get magazines for it and when you get down to the nitty-gritty, it was a much better pistol. They can still be found, for relatively low cost on Gunbroker.
The show bren 10 was a modified gun chambered to shoot 45 blanks as I recall.
I believe in a few episodes Sonny carried a S&W 1006. Probably because he could get magazines for it and when you get down to the nitty-gritty, it was a much better pistol. They can still be found, for relatively low cost on Gunbroker.
NOT TO HIJACK THIS THREAD, BUT, in the pilot episode Sonny carried a SigSauer P220 and thereafter went to the Bren Ten... As the show progressed thru the years he ended up with the Smith. And if I recall, he carried a Detonics as a BUG on the ankle...
Most if not all of the above description of the guns used by the Sonny Crockett character in Miami Vice is correct. He started the show with a Sig 220 then went to the Bren 10. When Dornaus and Dixon went under, Michael Mann, the director of the series felt that his main character should carry a gun that is actually available. So the props went to the S&W 645 and later the 6045. Crocket did used a Detonic as a back up gun but in the later seasons, when he switched to the S&W .45 acp, he also switched his back up to the mini .45 that S&W offered at that time.
Back in the late 80s, I knew a guy who shot USPSA with me that had the original Bren 10. He only had one magazine for it. The gun was heavier and bulkier than my Colt 1911. The full power 10mm load that was the only factory cartridge available at that time was a brutal to shoot. The gun was not comfortable at all.
As for the Vltor Fortis, here are a few from the SHOT show a few years ago:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/shot_005.jpg
So is the only fascination with this pistol nostalgia, or is there something great about it that I'm missing?
i.e. Why would you buy this over a Glock 20 if you wanted a 10mm?
I used to own well over 100 guns but 20 yrs ago or so got rid of almost all and focused on my shooting. The Bren/Fortis is the one pistol I would have bought today just for fun/nostalgia.
The Bren Ten came out at a time when I believed in hardware solutions and I wanted one badly. I did eventually get a chance to buy one but the problems were clear by then and I passed. The Fortis would have been nothing more that a fun walk down memory lane for me. Though I watched Miami Vice at the time, that connection didnt mean much for me (although I swear I heard Jan Hammer on keyboards in my head when I first heard about the Fortis).
I think most anybody who was interested in the project knew that there were better combat pistols out there and I never heard anyone talking about it like it was the second coming for fighting guns.
I guess in the end, for me, I kept enough of my old revolvers that I can walk down memory lane anytime and dont need to add another chunk of steel. But if they do ever come to production :D
By the way, thanks for all the info guys.
I bought, and still have, one of the originals. In fact, one of the first built of those originals... back then it was an advantage to be in Cali at the time. I've got three magazines too!
It was a good concept thought out by Col. Jeff Cooper based on the CZ75 with features the good Col. thought to be the way to go. Yes, it pretty much is just nostalgic now. It did have good ergos and was very accurate and trigger pull was very good. Personally I didn't find the recoil brutal as others did. The safety system Col Cooper though out just made the pistol too complicated as well IMO.
The faults are well documented, I think it was just a concept ahead of its time and the meturallgy available at the time wasn't the best for the application. That is what the Fortis was to address mostly plus a couple of small design changes to beef up weak spots.
The only issues I had with mine were bad magazines that led to FTF. Also, the set screws on the adjustable sights would loosen regularly... loctite is my friend. When the slides started to explode and the reasons why came to light, I found I had one of the casting flaws in my slide and so it is a safe queen now. Guess I was lucky because all it saw was 180gr and 200gr Norma loads... the original ones that were hot as hell. I still have some of the original 200gr sitting around.
And personally, I think it better than the Glock 20. Yes I have one (Glock 20) with a trigger job and extra power spring and steel guide rod. The Bren is better ergonomically and much more accurate. The Bren is a little heavier empty... but only carries 10 rounds so the 15 round Glock weighs close to the same. The Bren is also better balanced and a more natural pointer. That is my opinion anyway. Now I think my Wilson modded Delta Elite is the shit... but it only holds 8 rounds...
Most if not all of the above description of the guns used by the Sonny Crockett character in Miami Vice is correct. He started the show with a Sig 220 then went to the Bren 10. When Dornaus and Dixon went under, Michael Mann, the director of the series felt that his main character should carry a gun that is actually available. So the props went to the S&W 645 and later the 6045. Crocket did used a Detonic as a back up gun but in the later seasons, when he switched to the S&W .45 acp, he also switched his back up to the mini .45 that S&W offered at that time.
Back in the late 80s, I knew a guy who shot USPSA with me that had the original Bren 10. He only had one magazine for it. The gun was heavier and bulkier than my Colt 1911. The full power 10mm load that was the only factory cartridge available at that time was a brutal to shoot. The gun was not comfortable at all.
As for the Vltor Fortis, here are a few from the SHOT show a few years ago:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/shot_005.jpg
Thanks Sam!
Alaskapopo
01-04-13, 22:00
Most if not all of the above description of the guns used by the Sonny Crockett character in Miami Vice is correct. He started the show with a Sig 220 then went to the Bren 10. When Dornaus and Dixon went under, Michael Mann, the director of the series felt that his main character should carry a gun that is actually available. So the props went to the S&W 645 and later the 6045. Crocket did used a Detonic as a back up gun but in the later seasons, when he switched to the S&W .45 acp, he also switched his back up to the mini .45 that S&W offered at that time.
Back in the late 80s, I knew a guy who shot USPSA with me that had the original Bren 10. He only had one magazine for it. The gun was heavier and bulkier than my Colt 1911. The full power 10mm load that was the only factory cartridge available at that time was a brutal to shoot. The gun was not comfortable at all.
As for the Vltor Fortis, here are a few from the SHOT show a few years ago:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/shot_005.jpg
Correction a 4506 there was never a 6045.
Pat
מגן ולא יראה
01-05-13, 18:25
The project was abandoned and the man behind the project is no longer with Vltor.
As of less than four weeks ago, this was not the information that I received when I was in contact with VLTOR.
According to the information I received, the project has not been abandoned.
Correction a 4506 there was never a 6045.
Pat
Digital dyslexia. I knew the numbers didn't look right. Thanks for catching that.
As of less than four weeks ago, this was not the information that I received when I was in contact with VLTOR.
According to the information I received, the project has not been abandoned.
Would you care to elaborate?
I emailed Vltor about it just the other day; this was the reply:
"Thank you for your interest in our Bren Ten project. While we are very serious about this project, there have been significant delays in production. As of right now we do not have a solid release date for the Bren. As well as we do not have any major distributors lined up so we are unsure of what the retail price will be. I will take your email contact information and place you on our update list. You will receive any of the updates we have available on the Bren. We are hoping to have an update in the next couple of months."
Dropped this here since this thread is a top Google search result for "Vltor Fortis". I've been waiting for 4 years for this to come to light. I don't even want to own one anymore, I'm just seeing if they actually do it or not.
January 9, 2014
To Our Valued Customers:
Bren Ten Project
We, at VLTOR, know that the subject of the Bren Ten handgun is of great interest to many of our customers. We understand
this has been a long process for you. It has been a long process for us as well. We also know that you have been given some
information along the way, but that information was limited and not regularly updated. Ultimately through this whole project,
our biggest regret is that we have let you down.
A little history behind the story
In 2010, VLTOR began a project that consisted of reengineering the original Bren Ten, 10mm handgun. Without the rights to
the name, we began developing the product under the name, VLTOR Fortis. We purchased the rights to the Bren Ten name,
giving us the ability to replicate the original Bren Ten. The initial prototypes of the Bren Ten pistol were shown at SHOT show
in 2010.
In the process of working on the design of the weapon and showing some initial prototypes, we were communicating with a
company called Spirit Guns as a primary distributor. Spirit Guns organized a purchase of Bren Ten handguns, and without our
consent or instruction, began taking pre-orders for the weapon. Spirit Guns went out of business shortly after this, which
created speculation and discontent for us. There was much debate occurring as to whether or not Spirit Guns was lead to
believe that development was closer to production than it was or whether we had approved the company to begin taking pre-
orders. We would like to assure you that neither of those were the case. We released the Bren Ten prototype prior to full
production in order to engage our customers and gauge demand on such a weapon. We did not give consent for any dealer or
distributor to begin preorder sales of the weapon prior to full testing and production.
Why hasn’t it gone into production yet?
We’d like to attempt to answer the biggest question all of you have: why hasn’t it gone into production yet? Although we’ve
sold several prototype units to a select few development partners, we have not yet achieved a design that is representative of
the standard you have come to expect from VLTOR. As a result, we have gone back to the drawing board multiple times, trying
to create the best possible product for you. As to be expected in the design process, some of those modifications have led us
down more than a couple of dead ends. In addition to design difficulties, turnover in our engineering department, coupled
with tough decisions for maintaining cash flows in a bad recession have been difficult and have also affected the Bren Ten
project.
In short, we haven’t lived up to your expectations. For that, we apologize. We want the Bren Ten to be the best we can build
in order to maintain its legacy and represent the level of quality you deserve.
The future of VLTOR and the Bren Ten
Our goal is to fill your demands and to do everything possible to satisfy our customer base. With that said, we are going to
continue to pursue the manufacture of the Bren Ten handgun. We know you have heard time and time again that “we are
working on it” and we understand if there might be continued skepticism. However, we hope that you will take into
consideration that we are working to be a new company; more driven to bring the innovative products to the market in a
timely manner with the quality you expect from us.
We have made changes to the company structure and to our manufacturing processes that are allowing us to be more
efficient in pursuing these projects. We can tell you that the Technical Data Pack (TDP) is complete for the Bren Ten, and as a
result of the recent changes to the business structure, a full design and engineering review have been completed. The next
step is to conduct a manufacturing review focusing on the new frame casting and current state of all the casting tools. Once
we can be certain the tools are capable of producing a quality, consistent product with the new materials, we will proceed to
an initial run of new prototypes. This will be a perilous undertaking as changes to casting tools generally have extended
timelines. However, if we achieve positive results, we will begin production in late 2014.
Many of you have been very patient with the process and we greatly appreciate that patience and support. Our goal is to keep
you up to date as the process unfolds, so please continue to visit our website and social media pages for updates as they
become available.
Sincerely,
Gary Signature
Gary Abrams
President/CEO
Thanks for posting that update. I had given up all hope and normally I would not care.
However, as a very young man thenn I was lucky enough to get one of the very first Brens off the assembly line (one of the first 100 made-- also got one of the first Delta Elites too) I am now in the position to want one of the newer Brens as well and hope to get lucky again.
I bought, and still have, one of the originals. In fact, one of the first built of those originals... back then it was an advantage to be in Cali at the time. I've got three magazines too!
It was a good concept thought out by Col. Jeff Cooper based on the CZ75 with features the good Col. thought to be the way to go. Yes, it pretty much is just nostalgic now. It did have good ergos and was very accurate and trigger pull was very good. Personally I didn't find the recoil brutal as others did. The safety system Col Cooper though out just made the pistol too complicated as well IMO.
The faults are well documented, I think it was just a concept ahead of its time and the meturallgy available at the time wasn't the best for the application. That is what the Fortis was to address mostly plus a couple of small design changes to beef up weak spots.
The only issues I had with mine were bad magazines that led to FTF. Also, the set screws on the adjustable sights would loosen regularly... loctite is my friend. When the slides started to explode and the reasons why came to light, I found I had one of the casting flaws in my slide and so it is a safe queen now. Guess I was lucky because all it saw was 180gr and 200gr Norma loads... the original ones that were hot as hell. I still have some of the original 200gr sitting around.
And personally, I think it better than the Glock 20. Yes I have one (Glock 20) with a trigger job and extra power spring and steel guide rod. The Bren is better ergonomically and much more accurate. The Bren is a little heavier empty... but only carries 10 rounds so the 15 round Glock weighs close to the same. The Bren is also better balanced and a more natural pointer. That is my opinion anyway. Now I think my Wilson modded Delta Elite is the shit... but it only holds 8 rounds...
Would mind posting some pictures of it up for us. I'm sure we would all enjoy :)
Would mind posting some pictures of it up for us. I'm sure we would all enjoy :)
I'd be happy to as soon as someone loans me their camera.... :-(
Coogan-thanks for the definitive update on this. I had pretty much written the whole project off. I'm still interested if they ever do bring a product to the market. I just won't be holding my breath.
A 10mm makes a lot of sense for me as an open carry ranch gun. I've owned S&W 1006 and 1066's but neither were close to reliable for me (mostly extraction/ejection problems). I don't care for the large Glock platform 20/21 size and the 1911's seem a bit weak for full house loads (this may just be my perception). For now I'm just sticking to revolvers. But if the Fortis does come to fruition, it'll scratch two itches, the practical one, and the nostalgic one.
22921
OK, here's my trio of 10's
LMT Shooter
01-20-14, 20:22
You are one lucky dude.
That's good--and unexpected--news, as I had written it off for good. I owned an original Bren Ten a couple of years ago but I was nervous to shoot it with the concerns about the reputed porosity of the castings. I'd love to have a new one (preferably one with better slide to frame fit than mine as well as a black instead of plum slide!).
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-21-14, 20:26
Much rather you take your time and do it right than rush out a piece of junk. Bravo.
Gary1911A1
01-22-14, 04:57
I hope they are able to make the Bren Ten. I would buy a current version if the price isn't much over a thousand. Until then I'll just shoot my Witness when I'm in the mood.
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Gary1911A1
01-22-14, 05:10
Sorry about the link. Photobucket has changed and I'm not really good at this stuff.
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