View Full Version : Lawmaker proposes making gun owners' names public
Doc Safari
01-04-13, 10:45
Only in Connecticut for now, but this is why we do not want a national registry (as if we needed yet another reason):
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/-Lawmakers-Take-on-Gun-Control-Levels-185642011.html?dr
State Rep. Stephen Dargen, of West Haven, wants the names and addresses of about 170,000 handgun permit holders in the state to be made public.
Let them keep overdoing it, the backlash has already begun and I have a feeling the disgrace that took place in NY will end up being an unexpected victory for us in the end.
NoveskeFan
01-04-13, 11:01
Is this to try and shame people into giving up their guns? Stigmatize them like sexual predators? Are they trying to get homes burglarized? What legitimate purpose could this serve?
This is about as bright an idea as printing the names of all the molested children because our kids might be molested in their homes.
Doc Safari
01-04-13, 11:06
Stigmatize them like sexual predators?
This. Gun owners are the new pariah, worse than pedophiles.
Hadn't you heard? :sarcastic:
Fine, print my address also, I'll leave the door open...
How does this make anyone safer as stated in the linked article?
I don't get it.
brickboy240
01-04-13, 11:21
Yep...a national registry pretty much means the end if you ask me.
-brickboy240
Why? What would this accomplish other than violating the privacy of his constituents? The .gov already knows all the names, why should the public know?
Sounds retarded to me. :no:
I want a full-on listing of what everyone in the country watches on TV, at the movies, what books, newspapers, and other publications they read, what religion they are (or are not in the case of atheists,) sexual orientation, medical records, as well as income statements and tax returns. We need to know exactly who is living where.
Doc Safari
01-04-13, 11:27
I want a full-on listing of what everyone in the country watches on TV, at the movies, what books, newspapers, and other publications they read, what religion they are (or are not in the case of atheists,) sexual orientation, medical records, as well as income statements and tax returns. We need to know exactly who is living where.
I understand Obamacare involves quite a few items on your list. They want complete control and enslavement of the entire American public.
I want a full-on listing of what everyone in the country watches on TV, at the movies, what books, newspapers, and other publications they read, what religion they are (or are not in the case of atheists,) sexual orientation, medical records, as well as income statements and tax returns. We need to know exactly who is living where.
And SS#s and Mother's maiden names! Why make the crooks job harder than it has to be. :haha:
This is no different then what the Nazis did to the Jews. Mark them, stigmatize them, and when something bad happens blame them. There is no way releasing this information will make anyone safer or reduces crime.
We know that Muslims are responsible for most of the terrorist attacks so should we print the names and addresses of all of them? Most people would say no. It would be a violation their privacy and make them less safe. And since most Muslims are not terrorist, it would not reduce terrorist attacks.
Yet for some reason that reasoning doesn’t work with gun owners.
Cincinnatus
01-04-13, 12:51
How many here actually believe that this is intended to make anyone safer? How many believe gun-control has anything to do with safety? If you said, "aye" to either question, you are gullible. Rhetoric and demagougery are just smokescreens for the real agenda.
Reagans Rascals
01-04-13, 13:27
that's fine and dandy.... when one of those individuals is targeted, and has to use deadly force to prevent the theft of his weapons and to protect his home, family and self.... he can then sue the shit out of the state for Public Endangerment, Invasion of Privacy, Conspiracy... and so on and so on... any lawyer would have a damn field day after some bullshit like that...
Guys we have a "national registry" already....it's just not digital yet. The ATF has already used it to track people down, Irish has a nice personal experience with it. I could easily see them passing legislation requiring all FFLs to turn in their paper 4473 so they can be imputed. Plus, once you close up shop as an ffl don't you turn the 4473s over to the ATF?
telecustom
01-04-13, 14:04
*Sarcasm:
I think is a great idea. With a list of all the names and address of handgun owners in the area, it will make the selection on what homes and apartments to break into. Now I know who can or can’t defend themselves. I love it!!!
End of Sarcasm*
I want a full-on listing of what everyone in the country watches on TV, at the movies, what books, newspapers, and other publications they read, what religion they are (or are not in the case of atheists,) sexual orientation, medical records, as well as income statements and tax returns. We need to know exactly who is living where.
If they want to list gun owners, I want a list of welfare/food stamp recipients please:cool:
Reagans Rascals
01-04-13, 14:16
*Sarcasm:
I think is a great idea. With a list of all the names and address of handgun owners in the area, it will make the selection on what homes and apartments to break into. Now I know who can or can’t defend themselves. I love it!!!
End of Sarcasm*
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/jwmassaro/YardSign_zps961c321a.jpg
skullworks
01-04-13, 15:03
I want a full-on listing of what everyone in the country watches on TV, at the movies, what books, newspapers, and other publications they read, what religion they are (or are not in the case of atheists,) sexual orientation, medical records, as well as income statements and tax returns. We need to know exactly who is living where.
I have a better idea: in order for them to out us and keep records of us as (law-abiding) gun owners, they need to make their internet browser history public and register it as well. Oh, don't want to out us anymore? What a surprise...:cool:
How is this any different than if someone asked for all the driver licenses data? That is govt gathered data for a license. If handgun permit data is made public should not all drivers licenses, alarm permit holders, pet licenses, car licenses (where is that beemer I've been Jonesing for?) also be made public via FIA request?
Seems like the county or state could be sued if they publish some data but not other similar data.
10 gun related bills were introduced in the first day of the house. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275587-10-gun-bills-introduced-in-first-day-of-the-house
Some good bills introduced too.
Two freshman Republicans introduced contrary bills that would end federal law requiring that areas around schools be designated as "gun free zones." These bills, H.R. 35 from Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) and H.R. 133 from Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), are a response to findings that violence in and around schools has increased since the gun free zone law took effect in 1990.
"By disarming qualified citizens and officials in schools we have created a dangerous situation for our children," Stockman said. "In the 22 years before enactment of 'gun free school zones' there were two mass school shootings.
"In the 22 years since enactment of 'gun free schools' there have been 10 mass school shootings," he added. "Not only has the bill utterly failed to protect our children it appears to have placed them in danger."
10 gun related bills were introduced in the first day of the house. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275587-10-gun-bills-introduced-in-first-day-of-the-house
10 gun related bills were introduced in the first day of the house. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275587-10-gun-bills-introduced-in-first-day-of-the-house
Here's a jog down memory lane, with the socialist who introduced four of todays ten bills...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/carolyn-mccarthy-money-lobbyist-charged-funneling-illegal-cash-pols-article-1.442306
10 gun related bills were introduced in the first day of the house. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275587-10-gun-bills-introduced-in-first-day-of-the-house
McCarthy's H.R. 141 would require criminal background checks on all firearms transactions at gun shows, which would close the so-called gun-show loophole. Her H.R. 142 would require face-to-face purchases of ammunition, the licensing of ammunition dealers, and the reporting of bulk ammo purchases.
Wanting to take a class? Now you can pop up on the radar when you buy a couple thousand rounds to be shot up in one weekend. No one who doesn't train will ever understand why someone would want or need many thousands of rounds of ammunition.
Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) and Rush Holt (D-N.J.) each proposed their own bills tightening firearms licensing requirements — H.R. 34 and H.R. 117, respectively. And Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) proposed H.R. 65, which would raise the eligibility age to carry a handgun from 18 to 21.
Carry real battle rifles and high powered weapons in defense of the country when you are 18 but, sorry, we don't trust you to carry a handgun in your own defense if you're just a regular citizen.
I almost can't pay attention to this stuff anymore because of the absolute and complete lack of common sense that accompanies these bills and arguments.
Guys we have a "national registry" already....it's just not digital yet. The ATF has already used it to track people down, Irish has a nice personal experience with it. I could easily see them passing legislation requiring all FFLs to turn in their paper 4473 so they can be imputed. Plus, once you close up shop as an ffl don't you turn the 4473s over to the ATF?
That would really suck for me. Over the last 30 years I've probably bought, sold, and/or traded literally hundreds of guns. You could wallpaper a house if you had all of them together.:D Of course that was before I sold everything.:eek:
Littlelebowski
01-05-13, 14:53
since I read of a CT lawmaker wanting to publish the name and address of every gunowner in the state (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/connecticut-politician-moves-swiftly.html). I link to this not as an attempt to to get hits on my blog but as a warning. Connecticut members, write your representatives! Go see them in person! We need to nip this sort of state sanctioned bullying in the bud.
Doc Safari
01-05-13, 14:57
Beat you to it:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=120484
Love your thread title, though. :cool:
bondmid003
01-05-13, 15:18
Only in Connecticut for now, but this is why we do not want a national registry (as if we needed yet another reason):
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/-Lawmakers-Take-on-Gun-Control-Levels-185642011.html?dr
Didn't something like this happen in Germany a few decades back? Could have sworn one group was forced to wear identifying tags on their clothing.
How does this make anyone safer as stated in the linked article?
I don't get it.
None of the proposed gun legislation has anything to do with public safety. They know it doesn't affect crime. The politicians just feed that crap to the sheep who don't think for themselves.
Alaskapopo
01-05-13, 16:07
Lets publish his freaking house address and give a map to it on the net. One thing I hate in this society today is how easy it is for people to find out where you live.
Pat
Ann Coulter said it best. We should demand publishing the names of everyone women who has a government funded abortion. After all, Roe v. Wade as facilitated the murder of more children in this country that "assault" weapons ever have..
Alaskapopo
01-05-13, 16:20
Ann Coulter said it best. We should demand publishing the names of everyone women who has a government funded abortion. After all, Roe v. Wade as facilitated the murder of more children in this country that "assault" weapons ever have..
Yea lets try to fight stupid with stupid that works. Not.
Abortion is a religious issue that should be between the woman involved and her God. Its should not be a state matter.
Pat
Apparently you missed the sarcasm in my response. I was highlighting the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Regardless of your personal thoughts on abortion I made a valid statement.
Gutshot John
01-05-13, 16:49
Abortion is a religious issue that should be between the woman involved and her God. Its should not be a state matter.
Quite the contrary, health, safety, morality and welfare are long established "state police powers." Constitutionally this would include abortion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power
I'm all for allowing individual states to place whatever bans they wish on firearms if the inhabitants of those states consent.
The problem is that Roe was one of the key decisions that took those powers away from the states. Forcing it to be an all or nothing debate.
Federalism remains the key solution to our issues. I wonder if we have the courage to return to the principle.
Ann Coulter said it best. We should demand publishing the names of everyone women who has a government funded abortion. After all, Roe v. Wade as facilitated the murder of more children in this country that "assault" weapons ever have..
Good lord.
Having an abortion (legal) doesn't mean you surrender privacy rights any more than owning a gun.
If you want to publish some addresses, how about everyone getting welfare or similar government assistance.
Apparently you missed the sarcasm in my response. I was highlighting the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Regardless of your personal thoughts on abortion I made a valid statement.
"Murder of children" is very much a "personal thought on abortion" that renders your thought valid or invalid to the receiver and needlessly politicizes the point.
Submariner
01-05-13, 21:52
This. Gun owners are the new pariah, worse than Jews in Nazi Germany.
Hadn't you heard? :sarcastic:
Fixed it for you.
Alaskapopo
01-05-13, 22:08
Quite the contrary, health, safety, morality and welfare are long established "state police powers." Constitutionally this would include abortion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power
I'm all for allowing individual states to place whatever bans they wish on firearms if the inhabitants of those states consent.
The problem is that Roe was one of the key decisions that took those powers away from the states. Forcing it to be an all or nothing debate.
Federalism remains the key solution to our issues. I wonder if we have the courage to return to the principle.
Abortion is a a religious issue and there is a separation of church and state. Its not a health issue, its not a safety issue and while it is a moral issue its not one for the state to decide. The abortion issue is another one where people are trying to push their beliefs on others. Don't support abortions don't have one. Don't like guns don't buy one. But leave others alone in their own decisions.
pat
Yea lets try to fight stupid with stupid that works. Not.
Abortion is a religious issue that should be between the woman involved and her God. Its should not be a state matter.
Pat
The killing of unborn children is a religious issue? When you hold your child in your arms,hopefully in the future, you will see the folly of your statement.
Magic_Salad0892
01-05-13, 22:17
Abortion is a a religious issue and there is a separation of church and state. Its not a health issue, its not a safety issue and while it is a moral issue its not one for the state to decide. The abortion issue is another one where people are trying to push their beliefs on others. Don't support abortions don't have one. Don't like guns don't buy one. But leave others alone in their own decisions.
pat
Absolutely.
Alaskapopo
01-05-13, 22:19
The killing of unborn children is a religious issue? When you hold your child in your arms,hopefully in the future, you will see the folly of your statement.
I used to be very religious and feel the same as you. But here is the thing. I came to realize if I could be pregnant ( I am a man so its not possible) I would want the decision of rather to have a baby or not to be mine and not the states. If its murder as many believe and there is a God I will go to hell and justice will be served. But its not for men to judge or control.
I think kids are great too and I support adoption over abortion personally but I also believe in a womans right to chose trumps all because in the end its her body and she will have to live with that choice. I am not saying I am right and your wrong. I am saying its none of the Governments buisness.
From a practical standpoint if all the abortions became children today we would have even more welfare problems, more drug abuse problems more un-loved and un-wanted abused children as well.
Pat
Magic_Salad0892
01-05-13, 22:46
There are too many social and economical advantages to abortion to give it up.
Look at what happened in Romania.
xrayoneone
01-05-13, 23:13
This is an abortion thread? I thought it was about a proposed CT gun law.
Lets publish his freaking house address and give a map to it on the net. One thing I hate in this society today is how easy it is for people to find out where you live.
Pat
Here we go, along with interior shots (although it doesn't list which condo):
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=stephen+dargan+ct+home+address&ll=41.26105,-72.936387&spn=0.008307,0.01929&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=stephen+dargan+ct+home&cid=0,0,4789043167293505337&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A
http://www.trulia.com/property/3087929723-215-Beach-St-West-Haven-CT-06516
****ing coward politician.
Good lord.
Having an abortion (legal) doesn't mean you surrender privacy rights any more than owning a gun.
If you want to publish some addresses, how about everyone getting welfare or similar government assistance.
Once again I was highlighting the hypocrisy of the argument. The same people seeking to expose to the public who owns a handgun are the same people whogo ballistic at the mere suggestion of publicly outing those who engage in a equally lawful action, be it having an abortion or something else. I'm not sure why your trying to read into it more than that.
I think a more closely related action would be to submit Freedom of Information request for the names and addresses of every driver license issued in the state, the vehicle and owner data for every license plate issued,day care center, and every professional license (teacher, engineer, doctor, attorney), etc.
Force the issue that if they publish gun permit personally identifiable data then there is no reason not to do so for every other license issued by the county or state. It's all public, right, according to their thinking?
Maybe that would draw in support from other license holders that this is not a good precedent to set.
And if their reasoning is that permits are publicly funded or managed, then so are the other licenses to a simialr degree. And if that is the case then why not all EBT card holders personal info as well?
Ok, I know this isn't the original topic, but I'm going to wade in anyway
Background....I go to church when someone gets married or dies....I call myself a recovering cathaholic....abortion is not a religious issue to me
Second, in a past life I may have been a lawyer that spent a lot of time dealing with constitutional law
Abortion is absolutely a government issue. The core of the issue is when rights attach, and the scrutiny that should be given violating those rights to preserve another's right
The crux of Roe v Wade was point of viability, and when the fetus was sustainable and rights should attach...roe pretty much said that happened at the beginning of the third trimester...
The problem with that is it is limited by technology and is ever changing....when my wife was a medical student at UVA in the late 90s, UVA successfully delivered twins that were 20 weeks....that's a full month before the third trimester....and that was 13 years ago...as far as I know younger fetuses have been delivered and survived....point is what was viable in the 70s is not what was viable now
So if the fetus is viable, and rights attach, there then needs to be an evaluation of which right is more compelling....the right of the fetus to life, or the rights of the mother....that is absolutely an issue to be decided by the state
Complicating this matter further, we have muddied the waters by granting rights and protections to fetuses we did not before. In several states, if a pregnant women is murdered, and fetus terminates as well, the perpetrator is charged with two counts of murder. And in still other states, if a women is attacked, and the fetus terminates, but the mother survives, the attacker can be charged with murder.
So in some instances rights attach and the fetus is afforded protection under the law.
The other complication regarding technology is that it is conceivable that, at some point, probably not too far in the future, we will be able to remove a gestational embryo from a women's uterus as soon as it is detected and bring it to term. So when do rights attach there?
I have my own opinions, and the answer is complicated. But to say that abortion is strictly a religious issue simply isn't true.
Once again I was highlighting the hypocrisy of the argument. The same people seeking to expose to the public who owns a handgun are the same people whogo ballistic at the mere suggestion of publicly outing those who engage in a equally lawful action, be it having an abortion or something else. I'm not sure why your trying to read into it more than that.
Looks like I read into it, sorry for the conclusion jump.
Littlelebowski
01-06-13, 07:18
Let's get back on topic. Cease the infighting.
I think a more closely related action would be to submit Freedom of Information request for the names and addresses of every driver license issued in the state, the vehicle and owner data for every license plate issued,day care center, and every professional license (teacher, engineer, doctor, attorney), etc.
Force the issue that if they publish gun permit personally identifiable data then there is no reason not to do so for every other license issued by the county or state. It's all public, right, according to their thinking?
Maybe that would draw in support from other license holders that this is not a good precedent to set.
And if their reasoning is that permits are publicly funded or managed, then so are the other licenses to a simialr degree. And if that is the case then why not all EBT card holders personal info as well?
Yep, driver's licenses and registration/tags are a better example. In fact, many states have laws specifically denying 'public access' to such records due to the dangers it can pose. It's how John Bardo found Rebecca Schaeffer, that was one of the cases that really made the push for better safeguarding that info.
Here in FL, a law was passed under Jeb Bush safeguarding the info on holders of concealed carry permits.
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