View Full Version : Shortages for years
It seems like we've had gun shortages for years now. I've had to wait months for nearly every gun I have. gun makers have had years to ramp up.
We don't have shortages of anything else on this level. Even when gm went bankrupt, no shortage.
A lot of american gun makers (freedom group) are owned by private equity, yes the same vulture capitalists who gut companies. Perhaps this is their strategy to gut them and now sell them? after the shooting the oh so innocent bankers want to sell the companies.
Anyone with direct knowledge?
Just a thought here.
I was very surprised to learn how many gun shops that exist. Lately the media has happily pointed out that there are more gun stores than McDonald's in the US. Each store has inventory, so there a hell of a lot of "new" guns out there in circulation.
FWIW, I've never had a problem finding guns that I want in stock somewhere. Especially with internet vendors and those vendors who sell through gunbroker.
Now, if I want to order it from a specific store and wait for the manufacturer to fulfill the order, obviously there's going to be wait time involved. The same could be said for anything in the custom realm.
What guns in particular?
FWIW, I've never had a problem finding guns that I want in stock somewhere. Especially with internet vendors and those vendors who sell through gunbroker.
Now, if I want to order it from a specific store and wait for the manufacturer to fulfill the order, obviously there's going to be wait time involved. The same could be said for anything in the custom realm.
What guns in particular?Agree 100%. LGSs have issues getting what I want, but in the past two years Ive gotten everything I've wanted, to include SCAR 16 & 17, Benelli M2 Tac, HK handguns of all makes, suppressors, Noveske Uppers, etc, etc. And stuff I haven't bought, like SIG P210s, legit SIG 551/552 Swiss rifles... It's all out there to be had, but I've rarely seen any of it at the LGS...
If you can't find it / get it, you've been doing something wrong. And realize that if a LGS can move 10 Bubba Brand pistols / rifles for every 1 high end pistol / rifle, since they're making about the same on each, they stock Bubba brand. LGS are in it for profit, not getting you what you want.
OP - Lose the tinfoil hat. ;)
Rhino
Add that for typical buyers, firearms last MUCH, MUCH longer than cars do (from your GM example), and the auto industry has a well lubed finance industry to get people into new cars / trucks.
Just a thought here.
I was very surprised to learn how many gun shops that exist. Lately the media has happily pointed out that there are more gun stores than McDonald's in the US. Each store has inventory, so there a hell of a lot of "new" guns out there in circulation.
FWIW, I've never had a problem finding guns that I want in stock somewhere. Especially with internet vendors and those vendors who sell through gunbroker.
Now, if I want to order it from a specific store and wait for the manufacturer to fulfill the order, obviously there's going to be wait time involved. The same could be said for anything in the custom realm.
What guns in particular?
Thanks for your insight. Ptr 91, hk 45, sgl 21, ruger 1022, saiga 12, ar lower. I know some are smaller, niche brands.
Maybe my impressions are a bit skewed since I got them all within the past 4 years. The only gun I haven't had to wait for is glock.
I'm not familiar with the particulars of gun manufacturing but I used to work in private equity. They buy companies, load up on debt, fire half the people, run a pump and dump taking the companies public, then cash out. As you can see from this process it's very disruptive and does not encourage capital investment to ramp up production.
It seems like we've had gun shortages for years now. I've had to wait months for nearly every gun I have. gun makers have had years to ramp up.
We don't have shortages of anything else on this level. Even when gm went bankrupt, no shortage.
A lot of american gun makers (freedom group) are owned by private equity, yes the same vulture capitalists who gut companies. Perhaps this is their strategy to gut them and now sell them? after the shooting the oh so innocent bankers want to sell the companies.
Anyone with direct knowledge?
No direct knowledge, but I've pondered this too. If I ran a company that sold 1000 widgets a month, but there was a huge demand for widgets and I could easily sell 2 or 3 thousand widgets a month, why wouldn't I ramp it up? I can understand why someone might not want to buy up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of production equipment in today's uncertain times, but it seems like if there is THAT much of a demand, certain things could be done to increase production on at least a temporary basis. Pay some overtime to current employees. Hire and train new employees to work with the exisiting staff and eventually start running two shifts a day on existing equipment. The market price that people are willing to pay right now (and for the last four years) would certainly offset the extra costs...
Again, I do 90% of my firearms purchasing online and transfer to a local FFL. Saves money IME.
I've never had a problem finding what I'm looking for, aside from some niche weapons like my Beretta 87 (wanted an older production model without the lawyerese on the slide). Everything else has been easy to find - granted I usually wait for really good deals, so I can shoot them and sell them if I don't like them with little to no loss.
All the stuff you mention is easy to find online, well until the current rush, that is.
Rhino
PS - who remembers summer / fall 2009? Black rifles, lowers, mags galore after the huge buy post Obamas first election gun rush... It ebbs and flows...
steyrman13
01-06-13, 13:50
Not to mention that each person that comes in the store could buy about 50 or more guns to equate to one vehicle. So you do the math. say we have 100 people. We have an inventory of 1000 guns and 1000 vehicles. Each person could only buy 1 car which leaves 900 cars in surplus. Now with the guns based off of spending the ame amount, only 20 people could buy up every single gun in the inventory so 80 people are left empty handed.
Thanks for your insight. Ptr 91, hk 45, sgl 21, ruger 1022, saiga 12, ar lower. I know some are smaller, niche brands.
Maybe my impressions are a bit skewed since I got them all within the past 4 years. The only gun I haven't had to wait for is glock.
I'm not familiar with the particulars of gun manufacturing but I used to work in private equity. They buy companies, load up on debt, fire half the people, run a pump and dump taking the companies public, then cash out. As you can see from this process it's very disruptive and does not encourage capital investment to ramp up production.
There are too many AR manufacturers outside of the Freedom Group to believe that there is some sort of manipulation by investors keeping AR production or any other guns low.
Of the 5 guns on your list, up until two weeks ago, I could have walked into a local gun shop and purchased with no wait.
Hell, Colt 6920's were available in Walmart, too.
Daniel Defense has invested heavily in their manufacturing in the last three years and they still can't keep up. I imagine that they haven't invested as much as they could (as well as all other privately held producers) because there is so much uncertainty in the private AR market.
The beauty of what I have seen with high quality companies like BCM, DD, LMT, Noveske, LaRue etc. is that they haven't sacrificed quality (as far as we can tell) to ramp up production.
No direct knowledge, but I've pondered this too. If I ran a company that sold 1000 widgets a month, but there was a huge demand for widgets and I could easily sell 2 or 3 thousand widgets a month, why wouldn't I ramp it up? I can understand why someone might not want to buy up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of production equipment in today's uncertain times, but it seems like if there is THAT much of a demand, certain things could be done to increase production on at least a temporary basis. Pay some overtime to current employees. Hire and train new employees to work with the exisiting staff and eventually start running two shifts a day on existing equipment. The market price that people are willing to pay right now (and for the last four years) would certainly offset the extra costs... Too many variables such as supply of key components that you don't make in house. Not a single AR manufacturer forges their own uppers and lowers. That right there is a show stopper. Who would invest millions when a governing body wants to destroy their industry?
Rhino you gotta let me know where you shop. Any chance you want to find a scar for me after the scare?
I order most my stuff online too but will buy from lgs at a higher price.
Steyr good point, but how many people spend as much money on cars a guns (besides the fast and furious people)?
Ak doug, you read my mind! The companies that forge these parts are in the best position to expand. With our limit less spending on military, plus booming civilian market, they have less risk. But it's like getting opec to expand production - why produce more for less $? Control supply to keep prices high'
Pretty big player if they really control 20% of the market
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/business/how-freedom-group-became-the-gun-industrys-giant.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Edit: can't seem to post anything new here. Didn't mean to say there was a soros conspiracy, just that there might be some OPEC like actions (oligopoly that restricts supply to max profit) plus private equity inclination not to make capital investment.
It seems like we've had gun shortages for years now. I've had to wait months for nearly every gun I have. gun makers have had years to ramp up.
We don't have shortages of anything else on this level. Even when gm went bankrupt, no shortage.
A lot of american gun makers (freedom group) are owned by private equity, yes the same vulture capitalists who gut companies. Perhaps this is their strategy to gut them and now sell them? after the shooting the oh so innocent bankers want to sell the companies.
Anyone with direct knowledge?
Out of 5 firearms, I only waited one 2. One to be transferred, and one to be built...
bondmid003
01-06-13, 16:07
Again, I do 90% of my firearms purchasing online and transfer to a local FFL. Saves money IME.
I've never had a problem finding what I'm looking for, aside from some niche weapons like my Beretta 87 (wanted an older production model without the lawyerese on the slide). Everything else has been easy to find - granted I usually wait for really good deals, so I can shoot them and sell them if I don't like them with little to no loss.
All the stuff you mention is easy to find online, well until the current rush, that is.
Rhino
PS - who remembers summer / fall 2009? Black rifles, lowers, mags galore after the huge buy post Obamas first election gun rush... It ebbs and flows...
I'm the same way because most lgs don't carry what I want. Straight from an owners mouth about not keeping hk handguns in inventory was exactly what you said. Vast majority of shoppers want to buy cheap so he stocked lots of Taurus's and XD's. the HK's just don't sell
to the average buyer.
DreadPirateMoyer
01-06-13, 16:12
I doubt you'll see much capital investment (more machines, more material producers, etc.) in the coming months, as companies don't want to put all this money into their business, only to have it banned by Obama et al in March. Too much uncertainty in the market right now due to possible legislation.
If/when the gun control push dies, I agree -- it would be nice to see some more product flow. :)
Business_Casual
01-06-13, 16:16
yes the same vulture capitalists who gut companies. Perhaps this is their strategy to gut them and now sell them? after the shooting the oh so innocent bankers want to ?
What is a vulture capitalist? How many companies have you funded? What sort?
While I admit I have quite a waiting list for things like SCAR 17s, until very recently I had no problems getting things like 6920s.
So no, I don't think there is a plot except for the obvious one from the usual suspects.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.