Noveske N4 vs. LWRC piston system

[Blake]

Well I read something the other day on another forum that got me reconsidering to buy an LWRC piston gun. I had pretty much decided to go with the LWRC. I wanted a quality AR, and it seems that this system is quality, and the piston "seems" to alleviate some of the problems related to the AR system. I realize in my subject in a way I'm not comparing apples to apples, but I have a few questions and I would like some input. I want to state the will not be shooting 10,000 rds. per month. I will not shoot 5,000 rds per month. I do hope to shoot it often for practice/individual training. I would like to optimally attend a few high round count training courses throughout the year. It may be a future duty weapon (I say "may", cause I'm in the miliatry will possibly be getting out and getting in to LE work). This is where I'm at with my justification. A Noveske N4 low profile is $1895, comes with quality flip up sights and a good rail system. I understand that you can up grade to a MIAD grip and Vltor E-Mod or CTR. The LWRC M6A2 is $2040, does not come with sights. Has quality grip and stock. This will come fairly close to balancing out. +/- $60 or so, which is negligible to me when spending that amount. If ou incorporate discounts the prices come out nearly the same. If I understand right LWRC is a larger discount. This makes the prices pretty darn close. What I'm saying is that do the advantages of the piston system outweigh the advantages of the quality barrel of the other. I'm not an AR platform doctoral candidate so there might be a few things I'm missing. It just seems to me that the piston is a great offering for just a slight bit more money. Though I should mention that I would like to get an SBR, this isn't really an option for the N4, but it isn't a show stopper not going with the SBR if I decide I want the N4. I'm not really going to incorporate that in to the cost cause realistically I could get a 16 in. LWRC as well for a fair comparison. I've rambled any thoughts, are my comparisons off base?

[Failure2Stop]

I feel your pain.

A little bit ago I was in the same quandry; High-end DI or average piston?

It seems to me that you are really looking at cost/benefit ratio over any other factor, which is the same way I approached the situation.

Here is what I made my decision off of:

DI guns get hotter and dirtier than piston guns.
DI parts (seem to) wear out faster than piston parts.
Barrrel life is related to barrel type (SS, Chrome lined, Steel Type, etc), not operating system type.
DI guns in the 10.5 range are finicky, well made DI guns are not, piston guns are (apparently) fine regardless of barrel length.
DI guns suck with a suppressor, piston guns don't.
DI guns have been running for a long time.
I know how to keep a DI gun running.
DI has a huge amount of spare parts available.
I prefer 14.5 as a barrel length for a carbine.

Larry Vickers gave the following reasons to go with a piston gun:
a) barrel length less than 14.5 inches
b) extensive full auto fire
c) wide variety of ammo being used
d) suppressed use

Those do not apply to my current ARs. It will apply to my upcoming SBR, but that won't happen for a little bit, but when I an in the position for it, it will be a LWRC.

[JimmyB62]

I only have one thing to offer which may help in your decision. I would completely disregard the LE duty aspect of your decision. There are so many departments and they all have different requirements for duty gear authorization. In fact many departments have no endorsement of the AR platform. A non piston, traditional DI gun is more likely to be approved but not enough for it to affect your decision. SBR almost a definite no.

Whatever you get, do it for yourself and your own personal training. Maybe you'll get lucky with your choice but I wouldn't count on it, even a little bit.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[QuickStrike]

Why not both?


N4 upper + piston conversion. I think the final cost will be close to getting an LWRC upper.

[NightFighter]

Why not both?


N4 upper + piston conversion. I think the final cost will be close to getting an LWRC upper.

Here is a suggestion. A Noveske N4 Basic and a PWS piston conversion (the complete conversion comes with some really nice rails). That way you get the build quality of the Noveske and the reliability of a piston system. Plus you could use the Noveske lower to build an SBR in the future. Add a suppressor and you are in business.
I am interested in what others think of my suggestion:eek:

[Failure2Stop]

That way you get the build quality of the Noveske and the reliability of a piston system.

I would like to know what reliability problems have been reported about the Noveske N4 :confused: , as I have heard of none. The build quality of the Noveske is what gives it it's reliability.

Cost to benefit is very low; $400 to fix a non-existant problem.

[NightFighter]

I would like to know what reliability problems have been reported about the Noveske N4 :confused: , as I have heard of none. The build quality of the Noveske is what gives it it's reliability.

Cost to benefit is very low; $400 to fix a non-existant problem.
I did not mean to say there was anything wrong with Noveske rifles; espeically with reliability. I was just trying to say why not take a good rifle and add a piston system.

Especially since Dark Lord had mentioned he was thinking of that option.
Why not both? N4 upper + piston conversion. I think the final cost will be close to getting an LWRC upper.

[NoBody]

I would like to know what reliability problems have been reported about the Noveske N4 :confused: , as I have heard of none. The build quality of the Noveske is what gives it it's reliability.

Cost to benefit is very low; $400 to fix a non-existant problem.

My N4 is still pretty new with a low rounds count, but its been reliable thus far for me. The only advantage I really saw with a piston over my N4 is the cleaning aspect. I'm not so old that I'm too lazy to clean my carbine, yet! ;)

[QuickStrike]

Especially since Dark Lord had mentioned he was thinking of that option.


https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11949

[NightFighter]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11949
Thanks for the hyperlink to the other thread. How is the conversion working out so far? What if any pro or cons have you noticed with the conversion? I am very interested in this option. Have you shoot the conversion with a suppressor? :confused:

[CarlosDJackal]

I just got my LWRC 10.5" upper and so far I like it. If your planned use does not fit the recommended criteria as provided by Larry Vickers (listed in a previous post) and you don't mind cleaning your DI rifle regularly, then that might be the way to go.

But if the end cost for you between the Noveske and the LWRC is marginal, I would recommend the LWRC. All I do to clean it is to wipe down the bolt carrier group with a rag and lube it before dropping it back into the rifle. And the only reason it gets pretty dirty in my case is because I always use a suppressor. I suspect that if I didn't do this, I would not have as much crud blown back into the receiver when I shoot. YMMV.

[Spurholder]

Blake,

Suggest that you call/email LWRC and get a quote. The price quoted with a .mil discount made the decision easy for me, but like always, YMMV.

[QuickStrike]

Thanks for the hyperlink to the other thread. How is the conversion working out so far? What if any pro or cons have you noticed with the conversion? I am very interested in this option. Have you shoot the conversion with a suppressor? :confused:

I'm still testing it. Only 290 rounds through it so far. Hopefully that'll change this weekend.


PRO's:
All I really had to do was clean the barrel. Cleaned the firing pin hole/funnel in the bolt too. Prvi Partizan's red primer sealant is kind of annoying...

CONs:
Slightly sharper recoil


Since the lube doesn't get blown away, I think I'll shoot a thousand rounds through it without cleaning/lube and see what happens.


Don't think I'll ever mess with suppressors....

[thmpr]

LWRC did mfg. a rifle using the Noveske Barrel, "ODA", which was very limited .

Special Forces ODA
LW Gas Piston forged Flat Top upper receiver, with
Limited Edition engraving.
Noveske Custom Barrel 14.5’
Government Profile
Stainless Steel/Chrome lined
1 in 7 Polygonal twist rifling, 5.56

[Blake]

Blake,

Suggest that you call/email LWRC and get a quote. The price quoted with a .mil discount made the decision easy for me, but like always, YMMV.

I'm familiar with their discount, that is why the price is very close on the two rifles. Though I did just have some unexpected bills come up with the house and truck, so I may now be delayed o this purchase.

[NightFighter]

I'm still testing it. Only 290 rounds through it so far. Hopefully that'll change this weekend.


PRO's:
All I really had to do was clean the barrel. Cleaned the firing pin hole/funnel in the bolt too. Prvi Partizan's red primer sealant is kind of annoying...

CONs:
Slightly sharper recoil


Since the lube doesn't get blown away, I think I'll shoot a thousand rounds through it without cleaning/lube and see what happens.


Don't think I'll ever mess with suppressors....
When and you put more rounds through your rifle let me know how it performs. I would like to get an LWRC, but I think the wait times are like 4 months. I cant wait that long. Money burns a hole in my pocket and spending noney and not seeing what I bought for four months would drive me crazy:rolleyes:

[74 Camaro]

I just went through this very same choice. With the LE discount they are pretty close in price. I went with the LWRC because I am getting old and I am now too lazy to want to do much cleaning.

I should be getting the LWRC next week. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

[thmpr]

I waited for almost 6 months for my two LWRC. Well worth the wait!!!

[abnartyguy]

Gents,
I keep telling my buddy, call them up and get an upper that they might have in stock, i picked up two of them that way and with the Mil discount it was the best decision I've ever made! May want to hurry though, i hear they got bought out and might be busy for awhile, later!
-Zef:cool:

[Seth Harness]

i hear they got bought out and might be busy for awhile, later!
-Zef:cool:

I dont want to change the direction of this thread, but show me some documentation on this. :confused:

[txswat]

I have 2 N4's.One is a standard low profile and the other is a low profile with VIS. They both shoot MOA and are tack drivers. The double chrome lined barrel is the heat. Delivery time was lessthan 2 weeks.

[Seth Harness]

Well your right MATECH bought out a commanding portion of LWRC, and is going to start their rifle production, maybe other stuff too. Im not for sure. WOW.......

OK back on topic.

[carbinero]

Might be the old issues with Paul? Apparently he's distributing a new "advanced combat bolt" to JP Rifles under "L-W-Defense."

[abnartyguy]

And you question my powers "Seth Harness," now will you go to the dark side of the force and get an LWRC: Here's mine!
-Zef M.



http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/IMG_0465.jpg

[Seth Harness]

And you question my powers "Seth Harness," now will you go to the dark side of the force and get an LWRC: Here's mine!
-Zef M.



http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/IMG_0465.jpg

Dark side, here I come. :D
OHHH YEAH ! Im buying one. If one with all the new features can be had before 09' or a new AWB falls into place, which ever comes first.