View Full Version : 'This Country is on the Verge of an Explosion'
Doc Safari
01-09-13, 09:35
This is coming from someone I have considered pretty liberal over the years.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/01/08/Caddell-This-Country-Is-On-The-Verge-O-An-Explosion
Pat Caddell, committed Democrat and political film consultant...(SNIP)...perfectly articulated what’s broken in politics today: government no longer operates by the consent of the governed, it’s rigged against the ordinary citizen by lobbyists, special interests, and corruption, and as a Gallop poll announced today, two-thirds of Americans believe Congress cares more about retaining their power, even to the detriment of the country, than they do about serving and preserving the country.
Caddell called such sentiment a “pre-revolutionary condition” and said, “this country is on the verge of an explosion.”
The Government is made up of nothing but a bunch of money grubbing authoritarian GOONS.
They get into office to get lobbyist kickbacks, insider trade and to dominate people.
What they dont realize is the people calling the shots, dont give a crap about the politician goons they use to enforce their will.
No argument on the level of corruption or the fact that government is not really representing the interests of its citizens.
How does Caddell get from there to proving that the "country is about to explode"? This seems like hyperbole or overheated rhetoric. There are definitely a lot of angry, frustrated people. But actually I'm quite amazed at how peaceful and willing to work within the systems most Americans still are. Including those who own firearms and uphold the 2A.
brickboy240
01-09-13, 10:49
Although I admit to being a "light prepper" I am not really sure that we are THAT close to an "explosion."
Why? Well...things are still pretty good for most people. They still drive their SUVs, watch 300 channels, have I-phones and dine out.
Once the unemployment reaches around 25-30%, the food goes way up in price, the gasoline doubles in price in the next 4 years (like it did over the last 4 years) THEN....we might see an explosion.
But right now....forget it...still too many people living too well.
We are getting closer, though and it WILL happen...I'll give you that.
-brickboy240
Along these lines, but not specifically related to the article, I am in total agreement. The more that im wrapped up in all this, listening to radio talk, watching tele. news broadcasts, reading blogs, talking with people...the more im filled with a deeper unease that overshadows 2A outcomes or fiscal cliffs. Increasingly, the discussions between conservatives and liberals shifts into discussions on morals and beliefs. Those are the makings of perceived certainty; historically, some pretty awful decisions were made based on that justification.
"Crony capitalism" and "corporations in bed with corrupt govt" are really describing fascism. And that is what I think is trying to emerge in our country today. Hard fist of govt through massive regulation and legislation of every detail of life: mandatory health care with prison terms for noncompliance, disarming the population, seizing property, TSA, and not just at airports but trial runs with them at roadblocks and train stations, etc.
This heavy burden of regulations with harsh punishments leads to corruption and buying of favors from those who can afford it: the large corporations which are more than happy to cooperate in exchange for exclusions or exceptions. Look at the travesty of banks not only getting off Scot free from bad investments but actually being handed massive sums to cover those bad gambling bets AND buy out their competitors. There are dozens more examples with GM, Chrysler, solar, etc.
In Nazi Germany it took about 15 years from the emergence of fascism to the point of no return. There was no explosion of protest because enough people benefited from still having jobs that they turned a blind eye to those being crushed by the boot heel of the State.
Sadly our country is headed in this direction. Goebbels would salivate to have a press and education system so accommodating as we have today, and not even through constant threat but willingly and enthusiastically trumpeting the fascist message. Either we will slowly boil away our freedoms under the grindstone of Govt regulation and punishment, or the State will overstep its abuse enough to set off an explosion of protest and civil disobedience. A gun ban could be one of those tripwire events. Seems inevitable that something will happen but it may take a few more years, or it could happen suddenly. That uncertainty is what is driving a lot of the concern right now.
No argument on the level of corruption or the fact that government is not really representing the interests of its citizens.
How does Caddell get from there to proving that the "country is about to explode"? This seems like hyperbole or overheated rhetoric. There are definitely a lot of angry, frustrated people. But actually I'm quite amazed at how peaceful and willing to work within the systems most Americans still are. Including those who own firearms and uphold the 2A.
Caddell is a pollster, this is what he does, he is constantly sampling the breeze via the scientific polling process, you are generalizing....
Caddell is a pollster, this is what he does, he is constantly sampling the breeze via the scientific polling process, you are generalizing....
Great, so again: what's the evidence (poll or otherwise) Caddell has that proves things are about to explode?
Doc Safari
01-09-13, 15:07
Great, so again: what's the evidence (poll or otherwise) Caddell has that proves things are about to explode?
I think he was just giving his opinion.
The reason I posted this thread is that his reasoning is not often the liberal line of thinking.
Moose-Knuckle
01-09-13, 16:55
Caddell called such sentiment a “pre-revolutionary condition” and said, “this country is on the verge of an explosion.”
I concur, the writing has been on the wall for some time.
"Sheep have two speeds - graze and stampede".
Great, so again: what's the evidence (poll or otherwise) Caddell has that proves things are about to explode?
Fair question, which I cannot answer to either of our satisfaction...Nonetheless, I confer greater weight to his statements than simple "generalization" due to his professional expertise. I live in Northwestern Wisconsin, up here, his observation fits to a T!
ThirdWatcher
01-10-13, 03:57
I have always believed Pat Caddell to be a straight shooter.
I know many people whom I have spoken with in Arizona and other places have stated they the government interference in our daily lives, their ineffectual leadership and inability to accomplish anything is making people angry.
Now we have an assault on the 2nd Amendment mostly by groups and people who think they have a mandate to rule the country as they see fit. Not to mention things like the President giving pay raises to idiots who are doing nothing, huge debts, etc... etc...
I also think that many people feel the President and the AG have done alot of harm when it comes to race relations as well.
lethal dose
01-10-13, 06:38
I don't believe I've yet commented on any thread pertaining to the current climate of things in the USA. With that said, I agree with brickboy. I may be wrong, but I feel it will be many years before any "explosion." There's a lot of chips that are going to have to fall into place first. Then again, I've been known to be wrong once or twice in my life. Another note- Caddell may be a Dem, but I've always thought him to USUALLY very sensible and straightforward. Again, I may be wrong. :cool:
The_War_Wagon
01-10-13, 06:41
Once the unemployment reaches around 25-30%...
Phoney baloney gummint statistics aside, REAL unemployment is already over 23%... :eek:
http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-emp.gif?hl=ad&t=1357312172
It's been OVER 20% since 2008.
Although I admit to being a "light prepper" I am not really sure that we are THAT close to an "explosion."
Why? Well...things are still pretty good for most people. They still drive their SUVs, watch 300 channels, have I-phones and dine out.
Once the unemployment reaches around 25-30%, the food goes way up in price, the gasoline doubles in price in the next 4 years (like it did over the last 4 years) THEN....we might see an explosion.
But right now....forget it...still too many people living too well.
We are getting closer, though and it WILL happen...I'll give you that.
-brickboy240
I agree. The more I learn about our governed right now, the more disgusted I become, but there are just too many people that are happy in their ignorance for anything serious to happen yet. There may very well be some shit going down depending on the scope of any ban, but I don't think it'll piss off enough of the country to actually do much in the long run.
brickboy240
01-10-13, 11:36
The other thing I left out on why I think the "revolution moment" is still quite a ways off:
We have a mainstream media that is constantly telling everyone that the "recovery" is on. They also downplay or chose to not report on the bad things that are going on like credit downgrades and other economic news. Basically...any economic news that does not help the current administration gets left out or reported to make it seem as if it is the fault of Bush or the "mean ol' GOP controlled House."
There is also no education in public schools on how deficits work and the dangers of fiat currencies. So the younger people are clueless to what is going on in the economic world.
THAT is a huge factor on why the "explosive moment" is still a very long ways off. Right now, John Q. Public thinks that....
A: America is in "recovery mode"
B: the unemployment rate is 7.8% and going down
C: the mess we are in is because of Bush
D: Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess and this takes time
So therefore....the majority see no danger at all.
-brickboy240
As Patrick Swayze said in the movie Roadhouse, " its going to get worse before it gets better ." Unfortunately IMHO, (and I hope I am wrong), the same phrase could be said about this country, with the exception of the words, *before it gets better*. I always try to be positive about things, but unless something new and big happens to drive the economy in the future and it creates a lot of decent paying jobs, I don't think it will ever get any better. For me this old Merle Haggard song appears to be the way the country is headed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ9OzIn9-o4
But right now....forget it...still too many people living too well.
-brickboy240
Yes. We're nice and comfy. It'll take some real Revelation stuff to get many people out of bed
ETA: Although remember, only about 1/3 of the founding population actively supported the effort for independence. It's never "everybody"
brickboy240
01-10-13, 14:29
When the guns are banned, gas doubles in price in the next 4 years (like it just did) and people's credit cards stop working....THEN the explosion will begin.
-brickboy240
Belmont31R
01-10-13, 19:43
Yes. We're nice and comfy. It'll take some real Revelation stuff to get many people out of bed
ETA: Although remember, only about 1/3 of the founding population actively supported the effort for independence. It's never "everybody"
I don't like the comments about people have TV or phone or interment or blah blah blah. It's all relative. The big cities back then were modern for their times. People think the founders were backwoods living 'necks who ate out of the forest or something. Monticello is a nicer house than most of modern day American's live in. It's all relative. There were a shit ton of people back then, based on perspective, that were as comfortable as we are today, because they didn't know any better. Just like those of us today aren't going to know any better than how people are living 100 or 200 or 500 years from now. I am sure people, even in 40 years from now, will wonder how we lived in 2013.
Moose-Knuckle
01-10-13, 20:12
I don't like the comments about people have TV or phone or interment or blah blah blah. It's all relative. The big cities back then were modern for their times. People think the founders were backwoods living 'necks who ate out of the forest or something. Monticello is a nicer house than most of modern day American's live in. It's all relative. There were a shit ton of people back then, based on perspective, that were as comfortable as we are today, because they didn't know any better. Just like those of us today aren't going to know any better than how people are living 100 or 200 or 500 years from now. I am sure people, even in 40 years from now, will wonder how we lived in 2013.
Monticello was the execption and designed by a freaking genius of a man. Your average cottage in town or cabin in the woods was anything but ideal. Yes, the vast majority of people then were harder than people today. This is not to say that a Revolution in our day would be lost by a bunch of metro sexual hipsters as I am sure you, I, and members of this board don't fit that bill.
I know many people whom I have spoken with in Arizona and other places have stated they the government interference in our daily lives, their ineffectual leadership and inability to accomplish anything is making people angry.
Now we have an assault on the 2nd Amendment mostly by groups and people who think they have a mandate to rule the country as they see fit. Not to mention things like the President giving pay raises to idiots who are doing nothing, huge debts, etc... etc...
I also think that many people feel the President and the AG have done alot of harm when it comes to race relations as well.
Yep. Problem is just as many feel the opposite.
If only we could divide the nation in half and let each half have its own place so everyone would be happy (not really, the other half would be trying to cross the border into our half pretty quickly). If only life were that fair though.
I'm sure that Obama and his ilk are sensing the growing dissatisfaction of tax paying middle class citizens, the increasing level of frustration with a Federal government that continuously chips away at our freedoms, at true taxation without representation.
A Federal government that refuses to secure the border, that gives amnesty to illegals, that will simply not reign in spending, that does nothing to create energy independence while throwing tax payer money at boondoggles that continue to fail.
A Federal government that runs guns into Mexico, then tries to use those crimes involving those same guns to impose new anti-gun laws here.
A Federal government (and state and local, for that matter) that continues to grow unabated, increasing taxes more and more.
A Federal government that does everything they can to increase the so-called 47% so they have a permanent voting base, while those of us who work support them.
A Federal government that left American citizens to die in Benghazi, and is doing everything possible to avoid taking any responsibility or answer any questions with regards as to what happened and why.
A Federal government that gives Brazil $2 billion to extract oil that Obama promises we look forward to buying, but will not allow expansion of drilling here, keeping gas prices well over $3 a gallon.
A Federal energy policy that mandates ethanol in our gasoline so that our farmers grow more corn, less wheat and other crops and commodities, which along with fuel prices drives up the cost of everything.
A Federal government who does nothing to improve the business climate here to encourage growth and job creation.
A Federal government who encourages the Federal Reserve to simply print money, devaluing our currency, which also keeps oil prices high (among other things).
They don't want an armed citizenry; they want to take our guns away before it gets to the point that Caddell is talking about.
There are only two things they fear: losing an election and the true meaning of the Second Amendment.
I'm sure that Obama and his ilk are sensing the growing dissatisfaction of tax paying middle class citizens, the increasing level of frustration with a Federal government that continuously chips away at our freedoms, at true taxation without representation.
A Federal government that refuses to secure the border, that gives amnesty to illegals, that will simply not reign in spending, that does nothing to create energy independence while throwing tax payer money at boondoggles that continue to fail.
A Federal government that runs guns into Mexico, then tries to use those crimes involving those same guns to impose new anti-gun laws here.
A Federal government (and state and local, for that matter) that continues to grow unabated, increasing taxes more and more.
A Federal government that does everything they can to increase the so-called 47% so they have a permanent voting base, while those of us who work support them.
A Federal government that left American citizens to die in Benghazi, and is doing everything possible to avoid taking any responsibility or answer any questions with regards as to what happened and why.
A Federal government that gives Brazil $2 billion to extract oil that Obama promises we look forward to buying, but will not allow expansion of drilling here, keeping gas prices well over $3 a gallon.
A Federal energy policy that mandates ethanol in our gasoline so that our farmers grow more corn, less wheat and other crops and commodities, which along with fuel prices drives up the cost of everything.
A Federal government who does nothing to improve the business climate here to encourage growth and job creation.
A Federal government who encourages the Federal Reserve to simply print money, devaluing our currency, which also keeps oil prices high (among other things).
They don't want an armed citizenry; they want to take our guns away before it gets to the point that Caddell is talking about.
There are only two things they fear: losing an election and the true meaning of the Second Amendment.
Well then, why the electoral landslide a month and a half ago?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-10-13, 22:09
Taking guns away will not be the catalyst. Taking the social welfare programs away will...
Well then, why the electoral landslide a month and a half ago?
An electoral win, but hardly a landslide. Obama received a bit over 4 million votes than did Romney. In a country of over 315 million, that's not a mandate.
The fact that there is 47% went a long way towards Obama's second term.
There are plenty of liberals in the major cities, not just the 47%. You add up the teachers, the union members, the professors, the government workers, the voters 18-29 or so, the people who still have white guilt, the minorities who overwhelmingly support a minority blindly.
Factor in the MSM (TV, magazines, Hollywood and newspapers) who went along with Obama and blamed Bush for everything, even four years later, and never called Obama on any of his failed policies.
Add it all up, and the 47% who get free rides, coupled with all the groups I mentioned, along with voter apathy and lack of education and interest in politics that has been conditioned into people over years along with a poor campaign run by Romney, and it's not difficult to see how Obama won again.
Taking guns away will not be the catalyst. Taking the social welfare programs away will...
The difference is one one of those is a desired result of their active strategy/agenda, the other will be an unavoidable result of the same. Their authoritarian nature will attempt the former, their socialistic economic policy will result in the latter.
Taking guns away will not be the catalyst. Taking the social welfare programs away will...
That would be one, but that will only happen when people are so taxed to death that the economy collapses.
I could see something happening if gun seizures were to start, and someone decides to resist. The first one or two would be labeled some extremist, but it would be difficult to keep covering them up.
Once average citizens are being arrested or killed in anti-gun raids, that would likely do it.
Alaskapopo
01-10-13, 22:19
An electoral win, but hardly a landslide. Obama received a bit over 4 million votes than did Romney. In a country of over 315 million, that's not a mandate.
The fact that there is 47% went a long way towards Obama's second term.
There are plenty of liberals in the major cities, not just the 47%. You add up the teachers, the union members, the professors, the government workers, the voters 18-29 or so, the people who still have white guilt, the minorities who overwhelmingly support a minority blindly.
Factor in the MSM (TV, magazines, Hollywood and newspapers) who went along with Obama and blamed Bush for everything, even four years later, and never called Obama on any of his failed policies.
Add it all up, and the 47% who get free rides, coupled with all the groups I mentioned, along with voter apathy and lack of education and interest in politics that has been conditioned into people over years along with a poor campaign run by Romney, and it's not difficult to see how Obama won again.
The real problem is the Republicans need to reach out to more than just white male, wealth buisness owners.
Pro gun and pro union here. Tired of having the republicans trying to attack my wallet every chance they can get. We need to separate the issue of guns from other politics as there are pro gun people on both sides of the aisle and we as gun owners don't need to exclude any allies.
Pat
I'm sure that Obama and his ilk are sensing the growing dissatisfaction of tax paying middle class citizens, the increasing level of frustration with a Federal government that continuously chips away at our freedoms, at true taxation without representation.
Yes, I'm sure it ruffles their narcissistic feathers. That he has to pretend to be playing by the book. I'll bet some are spitting mad that they can't simply do away with the Constitution completely and appoint Obama as King.
One other little problem with your theory. The people that elect him are concerned over the feud between Nicki Minaj and Mariah Carey. Not the Constitution.
The real problem is the Republicans need to reach out to more than just white male, wealth buisness owners.
Pat
The Republicans are going to sell us down the river on the 2A. Bet on it.
Everyone that believes in the Republicans is in denial. They can not be trusted. In some ways are worse than a Liberal. You know a Liberal is out to get you. You never know what you are going to get out of a Republican. They have been a necessary evil to defeat the Liberal but certainly will bite the hand that feeds them.
The have no offense and suck at defense.
brushy bill
01-10-13, 22:36
The real problem is the Republicans need to reach out to more than just white male, wealth buisness owners.
Pro gun and pro union here. Tired of having the republicans trying to attack my wallet every chance they can get. We need to separate the issue of guns from other politics as there are pro gun people on both sides of the aisle and we as gun owners don't need to exclude any allies.
Pat
Pat, check your next pay statement. I about guarantee you took a cut and it wasn't the Republicans who did it to you.
Once upon a time when candy was free and ponies could talk, I believed unions COULD have a good purpose. I'd never owned a Japanese/Korean vehicle and I'm probably a good deal older than you...once I and my descendents were forced to pay for automobile (and other) bailouts that will never be paid back and left the .gov billions in the hole made me a "never again" 'American' car buyer except maybe Ford who declined the bail out.
If there are really Dems who support the 2A, they need to make themselves relevant to their party...from what I can tell, they are not at present.
I'm sorry but I have to call BS on that one (AlaskaPoPo)
While the Republican party is not exactly saints, I have yet to find a Democrat worth crossing the street to piss on these days. If you think that the (R) party is the party of white wealthy business man, you need to look at the rotating Cabinet positions between Wall Street and the (D) party. You are falling hook line and sinker for that BS the media feeds you about and (R) standing for "R"ich White People.
Unions may have been necessary once...but right now they are just the same as the corporations they claim to fight. Pocketing for the bosses and not the worker.
I don't like the comments about people have TV or phone or interment or blah blah blah.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that we don't have to toil in a farm field for 10 hours a day just to eat. We don't need (most of us) to build a fire to keep warm. That sort of stuff
Alaskapopo
01-11-13, 00:38
I'm sorry but I have to call BS on that one (AlaskaPoPo)
While the Republican party is not exactly saints, I have yet to find a Democrat worth crossing the street to piss on these days. If you think that the (R) party is the party of white wealthy business man, you need to look at the rotating Cabinet positions between Wall Street and the (D) party. You are falling hook line and sinker for that BS the media feeds you about and (R) standing for "R"ich White People.
Unions may have been necessary once...but right now they are just the same as the corporations they claim to fight. Pocketing for the bosses and not the worker.
Unions will always be necessary. I have worked for both union and non union departments and things are better acrosst he board in the union departments. But we will have to agree to disagree. The republicans have done things to make it harder and harder on employees. They are great if your a buisness owner but not so great if your the guy working for that buisness owner.
Pat
What exactly have Republicans done to hurt employees? Not given them enough free stuff? Not run to help make unions employment monopolies with the force of govt enforcement?
The worse thing that has happened to employees if so-called free trade and Dems and Repubs were both eager beavers on that. I am not a fan of either party so I am not going to say the Rs are great, but it is the incestuous relationship of unions voting lockstep for Democrats that has helped get things like GM bailout, solar energy giveaways, OBAMA in office, Eric Holder as AG, debt going from $400 billion/yr to ho-hum another $1.2 trillion pissed away every year now.
Govt employee retirement and health benefit contracts are driving local govts into the ditch. When teachers, firefighters, and police depts layoff massive numbers of employees in the next few years it will be largely due to the crony labor politics that swelled those benefits you enjoy to unsustainable levels. Entire towns and cities are going bankrupt. School districts beg for more money but it all goes to an increasingly large body of retirees, not the classrooms.
Yes, all those govt employees work hard and do great stuff and deserve just compensation. But it was their block voting union support that elected the officials that appointed dept heads who agreed to unsustainable benefits. Just as they intended to happen. If you enjoy your benefits today and support the policies of your union then do not cry when your town or state lays you off, cuts your retirement account, or goes bankrupt and defaults on the whole shebang. Take pride and claim, "I voted for this and I love it!"
Yes it is nice to have a large police force, have the latest equipment, have a SWAT unit, etc. But for many towns and cities that scale and degree of sophistication is not affordable. If we need to give that level of benefits for just compensation then most places need to cut way back on the number of employees. But unions work very hard to make it exceedingly difficult to trim back headcount, and they work hard to get officials elected that will not reduce headcount nor benefits.
Unions are dying. Their total numbers are dwindling except for govt employees and that is growing. I vote for you, you protect my job, and the taxpayer picks up the tab. Enjoy the ride while it lasts because when the money runs out, it won't be pretty.
By the way what is the union's position on gun rights? On citizen privacy versus surveillance? Not the individual officers, but your beloved unions'? The vast majority of unions are not for gun rights, they are backing the very Democrat politicians we are writing to now to convince them not to vote they way they campaigned and told us they would, or how they have voted with the party in the past.
I know other union guys that get puffed up with patriotism while they vote the union line for douchebags like Obama, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Even if they vote otherwise, their union they love so much is spending millions and millions to get those (D) politicians elected and expect rewards in return. I have nothing against a guy being in a union because it is a monopoly that is the only way to get that job and provide for his family. But the unions are not your friend. You are their foot soldier to do their dirty work on the picket line and voting booth. The union officials and politicians will be well taken care of long after your ponzi benefit plan has gone bust. Just remember who built that pyramid for you. It was not the Rs who built that house of cards of ever increasing promises that cannot possibly be kept. This will collapse in our generation. It is already collapsing.
I agree, we disagree.
Alaskapopo
01-11-13, 05:08
What exactly have Republicans done to hurt employees? Not given them enough free stuff? Not run to help make unions employment monopolies with the force of govt enforcement?
The worse thing that has happened to employees if so-called free trade and Dems and Repubs were both eager beavers on that. I am not a fan of either party so I am not going to say the Rs are great, but it is the incestuous relationship of unions voting lockstep for Democrats that has helped get things like GM bailout, solar energy giveaways, OBAMA in office, Eric Holder as AG, debt going from $400 billion/yr to ho-hum another $1.2 trillion pissed away every year now.
Govt employee retirement and health benefit contracts are driving local govts into the ditch. When teachers, firefighters, and police depts layoff massive numbers of employees in the next few years it will be largely due to the crony labor politics that swelled those benefits you enjoy to unsustainable levels. Entire towns and cities are going bankrupt. School districts beg for more money but it all goes to an increasingly large body of retirees, not the classrooms.
Yes, all those govt employees work hard and do great stuff and deserve just compensation. But it was their block voting union support that elected the officials that appointed dept heads who agreed to unsustainable benefits. Just as they intended to happen. If you enjoy your benefits today and support the policies of your union then do not cry when your town or state lays you off, cuts your retirement account, or goes bankrupt and defaults on the whole shebang. Take pride and claim, "I voted for this and I love it!"
Yes it is nice to have a large police force, have the latest equipment, have a SWAT unit, etc. But for many towns and cities that scale and degree of sophistication is not affordable. If we need to give that level of benefits for just compensation then most places need to cut way back on the number of employees. But unions work very hard to make it exceedingly difficult to trim back headcount, and they work hard to get officials elected that will not reduce headcount nor benefits.
Unions are dying. Their total numbers are dwindling except for govt employees and that is growing. I vote for you, you protect my job, and the taxpayer picks up the tab. Enjoy the ride while it lasts because when the money runs out, it won't be pretty.
By the way what is the union's position on gun rights? On citizen privacy versus surveillance? Not the individual officers, but your beloved unions'? The vast majority of unions are not for gun rights, they are backing the very Democrat politicians we are writing to now to convince them not to vote they way they campaigned and told us they would, or how they have voted with the party in the past.
I know other union guys that get puffed up with patriotism while they vote the union line for douchebags like Obama, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Even if they vote otherwise, their union they love so much is spending millions and millions to get those (D) politicians elected and expect rewards in return. I have nothing against a guy being in a union because it is a monopoly that is the only way to get that job and provide for his family. But the unions are not your friend. You are their foot soldier to do their dirty work on the picket line and voting booth. The union officials and politicians will be well taken care of long after your ponzi benefit plan has gone bust. Just remember who built that pyramid for you. It was not the Rs who built that house of cards of ever increasing promises that cannot possibly be kept. This will collapse in our generation. It is already collapsing.
I agree, we disagree.
Not wanting free stuff and yes UNIONS are the workers friend. They simply represent our interests at the bargaining table. And no government employees retirements are not the reason for the financial hurt right now with local governments. Uncontrolled health care costs were but the affordable health care act has already started to help that as insurance costs have not gone up nearly as much since it was past.
Both sides (republicans and democrats) have their flaws. Just as many douche bag republicans if not more. Republicans have made it easier for employers to not pay overtime by changing FLSA. They have taken away bargaining rights in a few states. They are not the working mans friend in fact they are quite the opposite. Across the country if you look at comparable jobs union workers get paid approximately 30% more and have better benefits. The reason is simple united we stand divided we fall. Its just like the battle over our gun rights. If we stand as a collective group in opposition we are much stronger than as individuals.
Also there are anti gun republicans and pro gun democrats and as time goes on the gun issue is becoming less and less partisan and more a reflection of where the politician is from. (rural vs urban.) The only reason unions are backing democrats is because the republicans are in the pocket of big business and are not a friend to the average working man. I only vote republican anymore when they are pro labor which does happen on a local level or when the other choice is anti gun which fortunately in Alaska does not happen. In the last election the only republicans I voted for was Romney (grudgingly and only because of the gun issue) and Don Young who is a good man. Our democratic senator is pro gun as is our republican senator. As for unions dying that is true in large part to a lot of money from big business going to political candidates that are trying to crush workers rights. But I think you will see a shift as the republicans are obviously losing their power base and people are getting fed up with 1% of the population controlling 99% of the wealth. By the way Bush started the bailouts and last I checked he was Republican. They also bailed out the rich (banks). The biggest advantage I have seen to working in a union department vs a non union one (worked both) is you have a contract that must be followed by both sides in a union department. Both sides know the rules and what is expected. There is less employee abuse. No one is fired for political reasons like say arresting the mayors son for DUI etc. You have a chance to argue for pay raises when the time comes and you don't have to just rely on the mercy of a penny pinching employer to do the right thing.
But as we said earlier we have bigger worries on the gun issue and we need to unite and put aside our other differences no matter what they may be to win this.
Pat
polymorpheous
01-11-13, 05:18
I am a member of a trade labor union.
I pay dues and that's it!
I won't vote the way they want me to.
I won't attend their meetings.
Their propaganda mail goes right into my recycling.
I can not imagine why a trade union would support a political party who wants to grant amnesty to illegals who take jobs away from skilled tradesmen.
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