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View Full Version : _______ is to revolvers as the G19 is to autos.



Moose-Knuckle
01-10-13, 02:44
Gents I'm attempting to help my sister select a new revolver to use as a CCW. She wants to pick one up prior to her taking the class so she can get some time training with it. She currently owns some 4" Taurus .38 monstrosity. She came to me but I'm no a wheel gun guy, the first thing that came to mind was an S&W J-Frame. But which one? She mentioned that she would be interested in an Airweight model as she finds her Taurus a tad on the hefty side. I explained to her that there is no free lunch and with a lighter gun she would be dealing with increased recoil.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

JCIN
01-10-13, 03:33
I have an unhealthy addiction to revolvers.

If I was going to pick a J-Frame it would be the 442. I have carried one of and on for a long time. Usually in the summers in a pocket. For a new shooter that is a very tough revolver to shoot well though. Any J frame will be. A short barreled K frame like a 19 or 66 is easier but no matter what you have to get around that double action pull. They also do not make them anymore so they can be hard to find.

I am a Smith guy so I know nothing of the Ruger line up. Maybe a SP101 of one flavor or another could work. If possible I would have her shoot whatever she is looking at first. Lots of people like the attributes of small revolvers till they try to hit something with them.

Norinco
01-10-13, 04:29
I would say SP101 if she is dead set on a revolver. Personally I would get her to try a PPS or a M&P Shield.

dstocum
01-10-13, 04:54
I know it's not really an answer to your question, but I'd say try to convince her to buy a G19 or S&W Shield or whatever. It's a lot easier to learn to manipulate a compact auto than to shoot a small 38 well.

Otherwise...

I had a S&W 442, and a 2.5" 686+, and they were both really nicely made guns. The 686+ was a hell of a lot more enjoyable to shoot, obviously, and I could actually use it effectively. I would never carry a 442 or similar without lasergrips, and a larger grip. The boot grip is just too small; it would rotate in my hand with every shot. And the fixed sights were not very useful, they were hard to see and POI was nowhere near POA--though, that's highly ammo dependent. Recoil was not fun at all. I'd much, much rather shoot factory 357 Magnum in the 686+ than factory 38 Special +P in the 442.

If you can find a shrouded ejector Detective Special for a decent price, they're really nice little guns. It'd probably need a trigger job. I really liked the one I had (with a factory-bobbed hammer with the SA notch removed), the steel frame gave it enough weight to tame the recoil but it was still extremely easy to conceal, and you get 6 shots instead of the 5 in a J-frame. But, the guns aren't built for high volume +P shooting.

I've never heard anything bad about SP101s. I don't like their triggers, but I am very much a S&W revolver guy, and Rugers are just different. They're overbuilt for the application, however. 5 ounces heavier than a Detective Special and a 5 shot gun, for reference. I have friends that like them, and Ruger revolvers are generally considered bulletproof.

The Ruger LCR and the S&W Bodyguard 38 seem fairly popular. I have only handled them. I was impressed with the trigger pull on the LCR I played with at the shop, but just like an alloy J-frame, recoil must be a complete bitch. The S&W Bodyguard 38 with the integrated laser seems interesting, very cheap compared with a 442 + lasergrips and a bit lighter.

The only revolver brands I recommend that are currently producing guns are Ruger and S&W. Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus, or whatever other pot metal manufacturers there are out there are not worth even looking at, IMO. The QA/QC just isn't there, and I'd rather not buy something that will start spraying bullet shavings at 500 rounds because the timing went to shit.

Whatever the choice, if she goes with a 38 revolver, I'd recommend a trigger job. And have her focus heavily on mastering the DA pull. Far too many people go to the range and shoot in SA because they want to make nice little groups on paper, but that really doesn't help when there's no time to cock the hammer after every shot. Any revolver I own for defense purposes I treat like a DAO, because that's how I'm going to use it if I have to draw it in earnest.

But seriously, try to get her to buy an auto instead. A J-frame style 38 really is not a novice's weapon; it is one of the hardest weapons to become proficient with. It's very easy to develop a horrible flinch when you combine a heavy DA pull with the nasty recoil. It drives me nuts when I hear a gun shop employee pushing a J-frame on a woman buying her first gun, because they are just setting her up for failure. A S&W Shield or similar pistol would be orders of magnitude easier to learn on.

Armati
01-10-13, 06:01
S&W M10, stainless or chrome (girls like shiny stuff), with 4" heavy bbl. Add Crimson Trace grips and modern +P .38 JHP. The S&W Model 10 was THE serious LE gun for generations. It should suit the casual home user just fine.

TiroFijo
01-10-13, 06:27
The model 10 was the G17/19 revolver equivalent in its time. THE standard LE service hangun.

I agree there is no such thing as a free lunch, so while an airweight J frame is far more carriable, the M10 is IMO much better for shooting: better grip, action, more weight and control.

I would take her to the range with several guns and see what fits best her abilities and needs.

Straight Shooter
01-10-13, 06:29
SP101.

glocktogo
01-10-13, 07:52
The direct equivalent would be a 2.5-3" barreled K frame. I've always though the 442 to be the best of the J's for carry, but my 3" Model 66 is a far better gun for actual shooting. I wouldn't discount the LCR though. The trigger pull on the ones I've handled is superb compared to the SP's and Smiths.

ST911
01-10-13, 08:20
How does she intend to carry it?
If the Taurus is "hefty", how much relief is she looking for?
Does she truly understand the difference in shootability with the lightweights?

3" K-frames and 3" J-frames in standard weights with decent grips can be very shooter friendly. I know a number of ladies and youth that like them. (A 3" model 60 is particularly popular.) An SP101 is also a good compromise, but will likely qualify as "hefty".

Vic303
01-10-13, 09:33
My first reply for women wanting revolvers is a 4" Ruger GP100 .357. (I love mine, and so have all the other women I have let shoot it.)

However if she wants smaller and lighter, I guess I would say the Ruger SP-101 in .357 in a 2-3" barrel.

montanadave
01-10-13, 09:48
I've got a SP101 that I had "tuned up" by Gemini Customs. Haven't had an opportunity to shoot it much but it sure turned out nice. Not sure what kind of coin you're looking to spend, but take a look see at some of the S&W and Ruger revolvers on the Gemini website and the various tune-up and carry options. If nothing else, you'll end up with a new revolver in your collection. :laugh:

ST911
01-10-13, 11:08
My first reply for women wanting revolvers is a 4" Ruger GP100 .357. (I love mine, and so have all the other women I have let shoot it.)

However if she wants smaller and lighter, I guess I would say the Ruger SP-101 in .357 in a 2-3" barrel.

I have more success with the SP101 than the GP100, due to the lower bore axis, weight, and trigger reach. Ladies also report perceptually less recoil (likely due to those attributes) with the 101 vs the 100. GP100 would also require more dedication to carry than the smaller.

I've never quantified the difference in performance between the Js and Ks / 101s and 100s. That's probably worth doing.

okie john
01-10-13, 13:00
A J-frame style 38 really is not a novice's weapon; it is one of the hardest weapons to become proficient with. It's very easy to develop a horrible flinch when you combine a heavy DA pull with the nasty recoil. It drives me nuts when I hear a gun shop employee pushing a J-frame on a woman buying her first gun, because they are just setting her up for failure. A S&W Shield or similar pistol would be orders of magnitude easier to learn on.

^ This x 1,000.

I grew up on revolvers, and the little ones are very difficult to shoot well. I still have an Airweight J-frame that I keep more for sentimental reasons than anything. I dread shooting it. That said, if she insists on a revolver, then get her a revolver and make sure that she trains with it.

If you feel that the G19 is the all-purpose semi-auto, and you want the revolver equivalent, then you want a 6-shot 357 with a 3” or 4” barrel. Any Smith K-frame would do, with Models 13, 19, 65, and 66 at the top of the list. The Ruger Speed Six and Security Six are also excellent choices. These guns live in a very sweet spot—small enough that most women can conceal them but big enough to be easy to shoot well.

5-shot 38/357’s are the G26 of revolvers--ideal as a BUG, hide-out gun, or a primary for a very small person. Smith J-frames and the Ruger SP101 are the only ones worth owning. 5-shot guns by Rossi, Taurus, etc. are OK for occasional shooting, but I've seen a lot of them fall apart in sustained use. The Smith is the gold standard—small, light, accurate—but they’re so small that they kick like a mule with hot ammo whether the frames are steel or aluminum, plus the sights are very hard to see. (Smith occasionally makes 3” J-frame guns with adjustable sights. They’re a very different story.) Also, the alloy guns don't last as long as the steel guns in heavy use. Back in the day, serious shooters would train with a steel J-frame and carry the identical alloy model. The SP101 is built like a tank, so it weigh almost as much as a 6-shot Smith, but it certainly handles recoil well. The sights are usable and it’s not that hard to swap out the front for a tritium blade. They also make a bobbed-hammer version that’s truly slick.

The Detective Special and the Cobra were Colt 6-shot 38’s built to compete with the J-frame Smith. They’re a good choice as mentioned above, especially with the shrouded hammer, but they’re hard to find and their lockwork is so complex that almost nobody remembers how to work on them. It’s also getting hard to find holsters and grips for them.

Medium-heavyweight 357’s (L-frame Smiths, Ruger GP-100, etc.) are more like the G17. They soak up recoil and are easy to shoot well. If she’s not going to carry, these are probably the best choice. They’re also probably the least expensive.

Revolvers are still a valid CCW choice, but a G19/Shield/PPS makes a hell of a lot more sense in this day and age.


Okie John

Moose-Knuckle
01-10-13, 16:10
I appreicate all the info guys, I will take my time and re-read all the posts. I have a GP-100 and the first gun I every CCW was a SP-101 (5720 concealed hammer). I'm going to try and talk her out of an Airweight and a J-Frame for the reasons mentioned above.

While I'm at it, someone mentioned the LCR. What is the word on these, have they been out long enough for some serious end user feed back?

Thanks again!

okie john
01-10-13, 16:17
I'm going to try and talk her out of an Airweight and a J-Frame for the reasons mentioned above.

Let her shoot one--she'll talk herself out of it.


Okie John

DocH
01-10-13, 22:49
SP101 IMO. I think I still have some spring kits for them.

Alaskapopo
01-11-13, 01:59
I think revolvers are better guns for those who are not willing to train to master their guns. I love autos and carry them but they require more manipulation. You have reloading, malfunciton clearance drills etc. You can limp wrist them. None of these are issues for those who train and know their guns but it could be very bad for a person who will not put much time in other than learning the basics for safety. I have bought revolvers for my mother and my brother. Because they are not really gun people. I gave them the basics on how to operate them and took the shooting until they felt comfortable with it. I feel I made the right choice. Now if the person has an interest and wants to shoot enough to learn the auto is the better choice.

That said for CCW for a female I would look hard at the Ruger SP101 or of a J frame with a 3 inch barrel and good sights. (rare)
Pat

francis
01-11-13, 02:21
If we went with pure rugged reliability I would have to say the Ruger Six series. I believe that they never got one back to the factory that was shot out of timing?

Norinco
01-11-13, 03:02
If we went with pure rugged reliability I would have to say the Ruger Six series. I believe that they never got one back to the factory that was shot out of timing?

My Mother keeps an old Police Service Six holstered under her pillow. It’s a pretty nice revolver.

KTR03
01-11-13, 15:19
Agreeing with those above me. Have her shoot an air weight before she buys one. They are pretty brutal. Given the reliability and quality of autos these days, I see limited use for a wheel gun. I certainly wouldn't have one as a primary.

Redstate
01-12-13, 09:44
Another vote for the SP101, if she can live with the weight. I shoot my SP101 better than any other snubbie i have ever tried. It is fun to shoot. It's recoil, even with .357 is manageable for me. I am not recoil sensitive; however, i had an aluminum framed snubbie that was no fun to shoot with 38+p.
Bottom line is that she needs to choose what she wants, preferably after an opportunity to try several different ones.

skipper49
01-12-13, 11:07
I think revolvers are better guns for those who are not willing to train to master their guns. I love autos and carry them but they require more manipulation. You have reloading, malfunciton clearance drills etc. You can limp wrist them. None of these are issues for those who train and know their guns but it could be very bad for a person who will not put much time in other than learning the basics for safety. I have bought revolvers for my mother and my brother. Because they are not really gun people. I gave them the basics on how to operate them and took the shooting until they felt comfortable with it. I feel I made the right choice. Now if the person has an interest and wants to shoot enough to learn the auto is the better choice.

That said for CCW for a female I would look hard at the Ruger SP101 or of a J frame with a 3 inch barrel and good sights. (rare)
Pat

Agree with every point here. Exactly what I've advised for years.

Skip

redhands
01-12-13, 14:57
The S&W model 19?

I would also vote for a S&W model 60, with a 3 inch barrel. I just looked at S&W's website and they offer everything from a base model with a shorter barrel to performance center versions. They can be had used cheap and they are relatively easy to find. I have never looked at the Ruger SP101 although I wanted one when they first came out for a camp gun. I remember that they were available with a conversion cylinder to make use of 9mm on full moon clips. I don't know if they still do.

My 72yo MIL shoots my model 60 very well with iron sights.
I am always polite at family gatherings as it now resides with her.

jsbcody
01-12-13, 16:35
My suggestion: a S&W J Frame of some sort with Crimson Trace grips and Apex J Frame kit with a couple Bianchi Speed Strips and Safariland Speedloaders.

My niece has a similar set up (S&W 340PD with the above additions). For practice she will usually shot 50 rounds of .38 wad cutters and finish up with 5-10rounds of her carry ammo (right now it is Corbon 38+P DPX). This way she can practice and work on her skills with the wad cutters without taking a thumping on her hands while also shooting a few full power rounds to get use to it.

Ready.Fire.Aim
01-12-13, 16:43
If you get a Jframe, I recommend the Crimson Trace extended grip LG305 grip. Makes a big difference in controlling. CTC also makes a smaller grip that is harder to control.

I put these on my SW638 shrouded hammer J frame. It is my concealed carry pistol. Light and very easy to conceal pistol. I also had the trigger pull lightened, made a big difference.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/s-w-pistols-revolvers/01-1150

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/Aggie84/82d41f522d5c14a9a0808ce8ebe0c24e.jpg

Have fun
RFA

Blayglock
01-12-13, 19:11
I vote Ruger sp101 with 3" barrel. Tough little guns, accurate, fun to shoot, and she could conceal it. My wife carried one for the longest.

A lot of women (IME) won't practice with a J frame because the recoil.

francis
01-13-13, 00:46
My Mother keeps an old Police Service Six holstered under her pillow. It’s a pretty nice revolver.

i've got a stainless security six myself. great wheelgun.

Fly'nBuff
01-13-13, 03:05
Had the same issue. We found a Sp-101 with a set of Crimson Trace for a steal. Absolutely no regrets. She prefers .38s over the magnums for obvious reasons. She likes it, therefore I do too.

7 RING
01-13-13, 10:32
I bought a Smith & Wesson BG38 and gave it to my wife on her birthday. The J-Frame can be a handful, but she is able to shoot it effectively and making C.O.M hits out to 25 yards is not a problem for her. She usually does not care to shoot any more than 150 rounds during a practice session, but most men feel the same way. It is her CCW handgun.

I liked shooting her BG38 so well that I bought one for myself. I carry it daily and it is a good carry handgun when it is not practical to carry something bigger.

Depending on your wife's needs, I would not rule out a J-Frame or SP101 for carry. I would be hesitant to recommend the Taurus after the problems I have seen with several of their smaller handguns.

19852
01-14-13, 09:15
Any Ruger, Colt or S&W 4" revolver. The G19-17 of their day.

JHC
01-14-13, 15:33
3" J-frames in standard weights with decent grips can be very shooter friendly.

I just picked up an older 3" Model 36 square butt and this is really true. It's got a little heavier barrel and of course the extra inch. Its still small and thinnish. A delight to shoot vs airweight J frames. But still . . . svelte.

jp0319
01-16-13, 11:12
S&W J Frame

SteveS
01-16-13, 19:56
My wife CCW a 642 light and small and she has no problem with +Ps though she bought VZ grips because they were pretty. She also has a SP101 with a 3 inch barrel which stays at home due to the 642 being light and small. Though the SP101 is her favorite to shoot. You will have to let the Mrs. pick out one that feels the best in her hands.

Suwannee Tim
01-16-13, 20:26
Ruger LCR in 38 and another in 22 long rifle to practice with. If she won't spend the money for two revolvers I would not discourage the purchase of a 22 alone or the 22 now and the 38 later. She might shoot the 22, she probably won't like shooting the 38. A 22 she know how to handle might be better than a 38 she is afraid of.

wesessiah
01-17-13, 01:26
i agree with all the posts for the sp101. perfect match for my wife, and i think they have an excellent size and weight compromise compared to a lot of others.

The Dumb Gun Collector
01-20-13, 22:32
Airweight J-frame with laser grips. Let her practice with light loads. They are like a guitar. They are easier than most guns to learn the basics but harder to absolutely master.

Jake'sDad
01-22-13, 11:59
Airweight J-frame with laser grips. Let her practice with light loads. They are like a guitar. They are easier than most guns to learn the basics but harder to absolutely master.

Well said.

A lot of folks don't have the drive to become a combat shooter with their CCW guns. That doesn't mean that if they learn to make COM hits at 10 yards, with an Airweight J frame loaded with 148 grain wadcutters, they aren't better off than being unarmed.

It's a rare woman who's going to CCW a 4" steel frame K or GP100, even though she'll more than likely shoot it better. I'd rather see someone I care about have a gun they'll actually carry.

TacCommE21
01-22-13, 21:21
I carry an LCR as a BUG. .38 is cheap enough (and available) to shoot and some really great loads are available for defensive carry (Gold Dot 135 +P Short Barrel comes to mind and is what I carry). With the Hogue Tamer grip it is bearable to shoot lots, but not fun. Crimson Trace grip is a bit more cringe worthy, but out to typical defensive distances really makes it surprisingly accurate.

On either, paint the front sight a nice bright color. Practice as much as your hand can manage the recoil.

Not my first pick as a primary, but among the available revolvers a solid choice as a light, easily concealable piece.

(P.S. I have about 1500 rounds through mine without a problem.)

Hope this helps.

thegeneric
01-23-13, 18:57
S&W 642 w/wadcutters.

Doc Safari
01-31-13, 10:28
A lot of folks don't have the drive to become a combat shooter with their CCW guns. That doesn't mean that if they learn to make COM hits at 10 yards, with an Airweight J frame loaded with 148 grain wadcutters, they aren't better off than being unarmed.


I would think trying to hit something more than 20 feet away with one of these little guns defeats the purpose of it. It's a "belly gun" to be used on assailants that are closer than 10 yards. I'm of the opinion that's why the sights are kind of crude: you don't really need them at that range.

TiroFijo
01-31-13, 11:17
Perhaps the main purpose (like any combat handgun) is short range, but I always plink at relatively small targets at 25 m and beyond, no problem even with the small sights.

Jake'sDad
01-31-13, 14:10
I would think trying to hit something more than 20 feet away with one of these little guns defeats the purpose of it. It's a "belly gun" to be used on assailants that are closer than 10 yards. I'm of the opinion that's why the sights are kind of crude: you don't really need them at that range.

Seriously?

While revolver shooting may be becoming a lost art, let me assure you, a 2" J frame is capable of far more than being a "belly gun" in moderately trained hands. We used to have to qualify at the 25, and once a year at the 50 with our 2" guns we wanted to carry in plain clothes. Most of us passed. And yes, we needed our sights.

When I was teaching, I often shot at a 100 with a 2", just to show the recruits it could be done.

Here's the late Bob Munden shooting a 2" model 60 "belly gun" at 200 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

I've seen him do the same at 300.

Doc Safari
01-31-13, 14:15
I'm not saying that type of performance is not possible, just not what the gun was primarily designed for.

All I'm saying is don't sweat it if you aren't very accurate beyond a few yards, since that's what the gun was intended to be.

EDITED TO ADD:

I do have a question, though.

I know a lot of people will only buy "pre-lock" Smiths. Is this just gun snobbery or are there valid reasons for this?

Doc Safari
01-31-13, 14:28
dupe.

Serlo II
01-31-13, 16:57
Although I have a J frame S&W 442 with crimson trace grips.

My favorite revolver has always been the S&W 586 with a slicked up action and good grips. Its nice to carry and does most things well. Like a G19

Jake'sDad
01-31-13, 18:49
I'm not saying that type of performance is not possible, just not what the gun was primarily designed for.

All I'm saying is don't sweat it if you aren't very accurate beyond a few yards, since that's what the gun was intended to be.

No, you're wrong.

The J frame Chief's Special was designed for law enforcement use in plain clothes. It was carried as a backup and as a primary weapon by several generations of cops, who were expected to be able to use it effectively at further than a "few yards". It is quite capable of combat accuracy at reasonable handgun distances.

It only became a "belly gun" to those who didn't bother to learn to shoot it well. It's not that hard. I've taught 15 year old girls, and 70 year old ladies to do so.

I still hear guys say AR's are inaccurate beyond 100 yards. They're wrong too.




EDITED TO ADD:

I do have a question, though.

I know a lot of people will only buy "pre-lock" Smiths. Is this just gun snobbery or are there valid reasons for this?

Different guys have different opinions. I've seen and heard enough that I wouldn't carry one for serious purposes that hadn't been removed.

MountainRaven
02-24-13, 11:44
I disagree with people advising that one who is inexperienced buy a revolver, unless they lack the grip strength to run an auto.

The advantages of the revolver over the auto are like those of the shotgun over the carbine: They exist, but they are few and mostly exaggerated.

The revolver is harder to shoot well than the auto.
The revolver is actually more manipulation intensive than the auto (your auto probably won't jam every 5-6 shots, and with the revolver you have to open the cylinder, eject the spent brass, and then reload it. God help you if you have to do it one-handed).
The revolver holds fewer rounds and typically of less potency than an auto (and I would think that the recent shooting in GA and LAV's and m4c's response would amply demonstrate this).

This is on top of the lightweight revolvers, which draw the inexperienced like flames draw moths, being absolutely brutal to shoot.

That's not to say that I believe that revolvers are useless or anything of the sort. Merely that their utility for the inexperienced is grossly over-exaggerated. Simply put, they need more training to use well than the auto, not less.

Having said that, I agree with everyone's advice on which models to look at: Steel frame .38s and .357s of small- or medium-frame size with 2-4 inch barrels, manufactured by Smith & Wesson or Ruger. (Add Colt, if we're looking at used.)

Jake'sDad
02-24-13, 13:57
I disagree with people advising that one who is inexperienced buy a revolver, unless they lack the grip strength to run an auto.

The OP asked for advice on which revolver to recommend for his sister who wants to buy one. It wasn't a revolver vs auto thread.

MountainRaven
02-24-13, 14:21
The OP asked for advice on which revolver to recommend for his sister who wants to buy one. It wasn't a revolver vs auto thread.

True. But that did not stop people from saying, "I recommend revolvers (over autos) for people who aren't serious shooters."

Jake'sDad
02-24-13, 18:24
True. But that did not stop people from saying, "I recommend revolvers (over autos) for people who aren't serious shooters."

Wow, in the revolver forum?

Whoda thunk?

And btw, for some people, that advice is spot on.

bigwagon
02-24-13, 19:15
In my experience with a steel 2-inch Model 36, it's in no way unpleasant to shoot. Mine has an oversize Hogue grip, which is a big factor in that, but I have taught several women to shoot it and none of them have complained or been turned off by the recoil. For a compact, light, convenient carry gun, I think it's a top choice. It's impossible to predict every SD scenario that might occur, but I would rather have a 5-shot J frame in my pocket than something else in the glovebox because it's too heavy and bulky to carry.

DWood
02-24-13, 19:41
.....

bigwagon
02-24-13, 19:43
That might be the thread title, but did you actually read the OP's question? He specifically asked about recommendations for a J-frame or other compact revolver.

vodomagoo
02-24-13, 20:31
My fiance carries my airweight jframe due to the size and weight of it. She much prefers my g19 but wont carry it and cant manipulate my pm9's slide.

It took her a good bit of practice to become proficient with the jframe vs. the glock. She can clear any malfunction and shoots the g19 great it's just to big and bulky for her to actually carry.

For everyone saying a revolver is for people that dont want to practice and get good with there carry gun is really short sighting it. It took her a few hundred rounds to be really proficient with the g19 and learn how to clear malfunctions, with the jframe about the same amount of rounds but a whole lot more dry firing. Shes accurate out to 25yds and pretty small so it is definatly not a belly gun for her.

With everyone talking about a 3in option I would say I'm all for it or at least a steal jframe and not a airweight mainly due to the practice factor. I can get her to shoot the g19 with out question, actually she loves shooting it but the jframe she will shoot 30-40 rounds max and be tired of it. If it was heavier or a 3in barrel with a boot grip she would treat it the same as the g19.

Alaskapopo
02-25-13, 01:10
I disagree with people advising that one who is inexperienced buy a revolver, unless they lack the grip strength to run an auto.

The advantages of the revolver over the auto are like those of the shotgun over the carbine: They exist, but they are few and mostly exaggerated.

The revolver is harder to shoot well than the auto.
The revolver is actually more manipulation intensive than the auto (your auto probably won't jam every 5-6 shots, and with the revolver you have to open the cylinder, eject the spent brass, and then reload it. God help you if you have to do it one-handed).
The revolver holds fewer rounds and typically of less potency than an auto (and I would think that the recent shooting in GA and LAV's and m4c's response would amply demonstrate this).

This is on top of the lightweight revolvers, which draw the inexperienced like flames draw moths, being absolutely brutal to shoot.

That's not to say that I believe that revolvers are useless or anything of the sort. Merely that their utility for the inexperienced is grossly over-exaggerated. Simply put, they need more training to use well than the auto, not less.

Having said that, I agree with everyone's advice on which models to look at: Steel frame .38s and .357s of small- or medium-frame size with 2-4 inch barrels, manufactured by Smith & Wesson or Ruger. (Add Colt, if we're looking at used.)

Autos are far more manipulation intensive due to the different malfunction clearing drills, speed reloads, tac reloads etc. With a revolver its simply point and pull and when it goes click reload. I much prefer autos for a fighting gun but revolvers are far simpler for the inexperienced.

QuickStrike
02-25-13, 01:45
A double action revolver is a bad idea for many women IMO. My sister cannot even pull the trigger to fire it in DA mode.


Long heavy trigger + usually harder recoil with defense rounds + low capacity = bad idea for beginners, especially ones with limited grip strength.


That said, the Ruger sp101 or GP100 is probably the closest you'll get to a g19 in terms of durability, ruggedness IMO.

Alaskapopo
02-25-13, 01:51
A double action revolver is a bad idea for many women IMO. My sister cannot even pull the trigger to fire it in DA mode.


Long heavy trigger + usually harder recoil with defense rounds + low capacity = bad idea for beginners, especially ones with limited grip strength.


That said, the Ruger sp101 or GP100 is probably the closest you'll get to a g19 in terms of durability, ruggedness IMO.
If they can't pull the trigger on a revolver how in the heck are they going to rack the slide on an auto. Very weak argument considering a good DA revolver can be tuned to 8 pounds or so. Recoil with .38 +p ammo is negligible and comparable to the 9mm. Lower capacity yes but capacity while important does not trump reliability for a new shooter who are more prone to limp wristing and other user induced malfunctions with autos. I prefer autos for carry but for new shooters who are not willing to spend much time training I think revolvers are the best choice.
Pat

thei3ug
02-25-13, 13:27
my wife is in the same boat. She's small. It's very frustrating to see her fumble with a slide on some pistols. The revolver is much easier for her to manage. She carries an LCR.

Nephrology
02-25-13, 20:47
I just took out a new shooter - 23 year old girl - the other day. She had shot some before but almost none with handguns. I ran her through some warm-ups with a .22 pistol before we moved onto my 9mm glocks (19, 17, 26) and my revolver + a friend's revolver (my 442, his competition 686). Also gave her a mag's worth of .45 (the only .45 I had really) through my 1911. Of all of these guns, she preferred the 442. She managed to keep all of her shots on 8.5x11" sheet of paper at 15yds after the 2nd cylinder's worth. She did equally well with the Glocks but I do not think it is fair to relegate revolvers to those with some mystical know-how.

They're guns. You can learn to shoot them if you try and have good training. How well practiced you have to be to be satisfied with your skill with them is between you and your maker but from casual observation I think even a relatively novice shooter can be brought up to speed on a wheelgun at the same rate as the could on a semi auto. Sure reloads and stuff are harder with a wheelgun, but do you think Joe Blow practices his reloads....ever???

CAVDOC
02-26-13, 09:03
In every day carry with a proper carry system the few ounces added weight for a steel j frame is not noticed but the difference on the range when shooting is significant. Go steel frame. I prefer the k for general use if possible for the extra shot. Fwiw my wife's favorite gun to shoot is a 1911! She doesn't shoot much but is 3 inch group accurate to 15 yards with a 1911 but the heavy revolver triggers are tough for her to manage

SkiDevil
02-26-13, 21:58
Gents I'm attempting to help my sister select a new revolver to use as a CCW. She wants to pick one up prior to her taking the class so she can get some time training with it. She currently owns some 4" Taurus .38 monstrosity. She came to me but I'm no a wheel gun guy, the first thing that came to mind was an S&W J-Frame. But which one? She mentioned that she would be interested in an Airweight model as she finds her Taurus a tad on the hefty side. I explained to her that there is no free lunch and with a lighter gun she would be dealing with increased recoil.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Although it is no longer in production, the Smith & Wesson model 65LS (Ladysmith) is a great choice. It is still available on the used market.

http://www.genitron.com/Handgun/Smith-Wesson/Revolver/65LS-(Ladysmith)/357-Mag/Variant-1

My personal recommendation would be an auto pistol.
Either of the following three HK models: USP compact, P2000, and the P2000SK in 9mm or .40SW.


http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/pistols.asp

I have let two adult females shoot my USP Compact in 9mm and they were able to fire with acceptable combat accuracy. Both commented on the ease of manipulating the slide and loading the gun. A G19 or G26 would be equally well suited for concealed carry.

Best suggestion is to take her to an indoor shooting range and rent several models to help narrow down the field of choices.

Andyd
03-15-13, 03:50
The model 10 was the G17/19 revolver equivalent in its time. THE standard LE service hangun.

...


I agree with this statement. The 4" S&W M10 is a great shooter, the 3" version is a little bit easier to conceal.

The Ruger SP101 is quite heavy as a carry gun but that helps with felt recoil and shootability. Overall, I bought a S&W 642 for my oldest son, knowing that he would not want to be inconvenienced carrying a gun. My youngest carries a G26 that he got from me and loves it, it replaced a G30 and made his Ruger LCP a back-up.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/photo7_zpsd3065ee0.jpg

Jake'sDad
03-15-13, 13:12
Although it is no longer in production, the Smith & Wesson model 65LS (Ladysmith) is a great choice. It is still available on the used market.

For concealed carry?

Honestly, I think it's great that lots of gun guy's wives and girlfriends are competent with, and daily CCW 1911's, Glock's, and medium/large steel revolvers. But more often I see women who rarely carry those guns their man brags they do, and when they do "carry" it, it's under the seat of their car, or at best, rolling around in a large purse. And I also often see women carrying those guns with an empty chamber, because they really aren't competent or comfortable with it.

To be fair and non sexist though, I see guys doing the same thing, (except the purse bit though).

Rule 1 of gunfighting is "have a gun". If the gun the woman in your life likes to shoot at the range better, isn't really being carried, perhaps stepping down to something she will actually carry is a better idea.

I'd rather be lectured and chided because my wife is "only" carrying a J frame, or even an LCP, than be proud of how big of a gun she isn't carrying.

SteveS
03-24-13, 20:18
Let her make her own choice.

Moose-Knuckle
03-25-13, 02:48
Let her make her own choice.

She is, I'm just helping her narrow down the list.

titsonritz
04-15-13, 06:43
All SS J-frame, pick your hammer option:

60-exposed
640-shrouded
649-concealed
Start with 38s then check out comfort level with 357s.

The all steel Js are a great compromise between size, weight & controllability. I’ve known a few chicks that didn’t care much for my 442/642s but liked my 640 a lot. There is just enough weight increase to make all the difference without jumping up to the size & heft of a K frame or SP101.

RHINOWSO
04-15-13, 07:58
One of these is equivalent to the G19.

640-1 / M65 3"

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/Smith%20and%20Wesson/4563793067_c8991e88b6_z.jpg

Jake'sDad
04-15-13, 11:02
One of these is equivalent to the G19.

640-1 / M65 3"

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/Smith%20and%20Wesson/4563793067_c8991e88b6_z.jpg

Not exactly.

Besides the obvious capacity differences, either of those two guns weighs more than a Glock 19. The 3" 65 weighs more empty, than the Glock weighs fully loaded.

Again, a J frame Airweight loaded with non +P ammo, is controllable by most shooters. It's not fun to shoot, but the tradeoff is far more women will actually carry it, than a steel K frame. That's just a fact.

RHINOWSO
04-15-13, 11:48
Not exactly.

Besides the obvious capacity differences, either of those two guns weighs more than a Glock 19. The 3" 65 weighs more empty, than the Glock weighs fully loaded.

Again, a J frame Airweight loaded with non +P ammo, is controllable by most shooters. It's not fun to shoot, but the tradeoff is far more women will actually carry it, than a steel K frame. That's just a fact.

To me I find that women who "carry" rarely carry on their body, the weapon is in a purse. So the weight argument goes out the window right there.

Most women that I have had shoot a J-frame (640 or 442) have hated it.

To me I was going more what is the quintessential do all revolver. A revolver that is as comfortable to shoot as a Glock 19 is going to weigh more and carry less ammunition. Reloads are going to be slower, and in general sights on revolvers have lagged compared to what is available for semi autos.

titsonritz
04-15-13, 18:51
Rhino, nice fists man. Two of my favs.

Toxa
04-22-13, 11:10
GP100 or sp101

Jake'sDad
04-22-13, 12:03
A CCW gun for a woman that finds a Taurus .38 "too hefty", and many/most of the recommendations are for steel frame guns that are larger or/and weigh more. A 4" GP100 weighs twice as much as a steel frame J or a Glock 19, and is heavier, longer, and wider than a full size steel 1911. 98% of women would never CCW one, and that's being conservative.

I'm not sure how many of the posters can't read, or how many just don't know any women that actually CCW a gun. Carrying and shooting at the range for 20 minutes are two entirely different things.