View Full Version : British Army goes GLOCK
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ock-17-1528571
Glock and load: British Army unveils powerful new pistol
11 Jan 2013 02:00Defence chiefs bought 25,000 of the handguns for £9million and UK troops will be issued them for Afghanistan patrols within weeks
Take aim: Royal Marine Royal Marine Sgt Steve Lord tries it out
Phil Harris
British soldiers are ditching the traditional Browning pistol for the more sophisticated and deadly Glock 17 – as used by our police.
Defence chiefs bought 25,000 of the handguns for £9million and UK troops will be issued them for Afghanistan patrols within weeks.
The new Glocks, which can hold 17 bullets as opposed to the 13 used by the Browning, replaces the Browning after more than 70 years since it was first used by our forces in World War II..
The contract with Viking Arms Ltd of Harrogate, North Yorkshire, also includes more than 25,000 holsters.
The MoD said the contract for a replacement pistol was put out to tender two years ago and is not in response to any specific or increased threat.
Soldiers under threat from close quarters - as in during patrol, whilst driving or if they are mentoring Afghan forces- are issued with the 9mm handguns.
Deadly: Glock's clip
Phil Harris
Change: New Glock under old Browning
Phil Harris
Warrant Officer 1 Mark Anderson, Royal Marines, from Exeter in Devon, tried out the new weapon before the contract was awarded.
He said: “Pistols are vital in close combat and are a key part of a soldier’s armoury.
“Reliable, light and easy to carry, the Glock inspires confidence and performs exceptionally well.”
Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, Philip Dunne said: “We are determined to provide our troops with the best possible personal kit available and these new Glock 17s will give them greater firepower and accuracy on operations.
“Now that we have balanced the budget we can invest with confidence in the equipment our Armed Forces need for the future.
“I have seen this pistol demonstrated in target ranges and am impressed that this new lighter, safer generation of pistol provides both better value for money for the MoD and will complement the wide range of weapons already available to front line troops.”
The Glock pistol, manufactured in Austria, will be used alongside the range of weapons available to the military, including SA80A2 assault rifles, light machine guns, sharpshooter rifles, general purpose machine guns, combat shotguns, and sniper systems.
What were they using, BHPs prior?
Good to see guys on the ground getting modern equipment that works in such a nasty and varied environment.
What were they using, BHPs prior?
Good to see guys on the ground getting modern equipment that works in such a nasty and varied environment.
Yes,
I have a friend visiting who is now recently discharged as a British Army Household Cavalry officer. For some reason there is a feeling in the US gun community that they switched over to the P226. SAS did, but only so many p226's were bought as a stop gap measure for afghanistan. He was trained on the platform but everyone still carried BHP's.
What were they using, BHPs prior?
Webley Mark IV .38/200
There's a relatively recent photo of Prince Harry carrying a Browning Hi Power in Afghanistan. With flush fit Mec Gar mags, the capacity is 15 + 1 for the Hi Power, and with mags that protrude slightly 17 + 1. I think they switched more for COST, manual of arms, and less training, than mag capacity.
vicious_cb
01-11-13, 05:07
Now the question is when will WE get our heads out of our asses and get a decent service pistol to replace the M9?
ThirdWatcher
01-11-13, 05:13
I really like the BHP but IMHO the Brits made a good decision to go with the Glock.
Business_Casual
01-11-13, 05:25
Let's not go nuts, these are the guys that deployed the SA80...
:sarcastic:
j/k, good on the UK!
bc
Alaskapopo
01-11-13, 05:58
Isn't there some guy who posts on here from the Polish Army who thinks Glocks are not rugged enough for military use LOL.
Glad to see the UK make a great pistol choice.
Pat
Amp Mangum
01-11-13, 06:34
Gen 3 or Gen 4?
Will their guns eject brass?
Or do they get the same crap we have? :rolleyes:
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-11-13, 07:10
Should have picked up Walther P99/PPQ in honor of Bond.
British soldiers are ditching the traditional Browning pistol for the more sophisticated and deadly Glock 17
WTF is this "reporter" talking about? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
WTF is this "reporter" talking about? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Will, I read the same thing..."more deadly"? Who knew....
Failure2Stop
01-11-13, 07:39
What were they using, BHPs prior?
Good to see guys on the ground getting modern equipment that works in such a nasty and varied environment.
I know the guys mentioned in the article. Nostalgic to see them in the news.
The Brits were transitioning to the P226R from the BHP while I was there. While the P226s were a step up, the guns that were associated with their specific contract had a lot of issues.
ETA: the link isn't working for me.
This one worked though: http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/forces-issued-with-new-pistols-1
Will, I read the same thing..."more deadly"? Who knew....
It means MORE KNOCK DOWN power! :cool:
"Like a brick through a plate glass window."
Now, overseas forces will be seeing a lot of British soldiers with a lot of little burn marks on their forehead.
Business_Casual
01-11-13, 08:21
I never had a problem with NATO-spec 9mm ejecting well from a Glock.
I don't think they issue WWB.
bc
Insta-Gator
01-11-13, 08:36
Will, I read the same thing..."more deadly"? Who knew....
Part of the Media Handbook on how to sensationalize anything/everything relating to firearms.
Black rifles, black handguns ... mama said it's the devil. :laugh:
I never had a problem with NATO-spec 9mm ejecting well from a Glock.
I don't think they issue WWB.
bc
Not ammo related. This has been discussed ad nauseum. Glock has put out some defective guns. Let's hope they get their act together for the British army and they aren't disappointed as they were with the Sigs.
It's hard to imagine something like this being big news in America, but perhaps that's a sign of things to come. So many absurd statements made in that article hint at what it would be like to live in a society where the only thing civilians know about handguns comes from glimpses at what the military or law enforcement are allowed to possess.
Sad.
DanjojoUSMC
01-11-13, 10:06
Every article on it that I've checked out has a bit of sensationalism.
Is my thinking correct that they did not carry condition 1 with the HP?
Failure2Stop
01-11-13, 11:34
Is my thinking correct that they did not carry condition 1 with the HP?
Depends on the "who", "where", and "why".
brickboy240
01-11-13, 11:34
If I was serving...I'd MUCH rather have a G17 or G19 over the thick, chunky and huge M9. The M9 is too big and the safety is way up on the slide and makes power-stroking a problem.
Great choice with Glocks for the Brits, though.
-brickboy240
Alaskapopo
01-11-13, 12:29
I never had a problem with NATO-spec 9mm ejecting well from a Glock.
I don't think they issue WWB.
bc
Yep good ammo and not holding the gun like a limp noodle will do a lot to stop the crying I hear about brass in ones face. I have shot a fair number of Gen 4's including the one I purchased and never had an issue.
Pat
crusader377
01-11-13, 12:59
Even though the BHP is a great handgun, it is probably about time that the Brits upgraded their pistols. I may be wrong but I believe that most of the BHPs that the British Army have were built in the 1940s thru 1960s and are probably getting very worn out. I don't think they ever bought any of the newer versions like the MKIIIs.
Not to M9 dump as they really are a great pistol and design that I personally love, but...
It is telling that my wife's cousin who is serving in the Italian Navy was issued a Glock 17 and not a Beretta 92.
I think the Brits got this one right. The P226 is another great design, but not nearly as cheap, easy to train, and soldier proof as a Glock.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
01-11-13, 13:39
It means MORE KNOCK DOWN power! :cool:
We're talking about British Reporters.. Much like our own. Zero knowledge about firearms and, while on the subject of the British, this is right in line with Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels. I'm on the second book, Die Trying, and Reacher explains, after having a Glock 17 pointed at him, how he was involved in the original trials to replace the 1911 and chose the M9 over the 17 because it wasn't plastic and had a bit more "stopping power." This after he just mentioned both are 9mms. DUMMY. Good choice for the Brits but don't expect idiot reporters to do anything but sensationalize.
So will we get their surplus HP's? I could use a couple extra range guns for new shooters, maybe extra HD/boat gun.
Business_Casual
01-11-13, 13:53
We're talking about British...
In other news, UK Pistol Qualification Targets largely unscathed during range sessions...
bc
Failure2Stop
01-11-13, 14:37
Whille I do not think that the reporter has any knowledge on the subject whatsoever, it can be stated that weapons that carry more ammunition have higher battlefield lethality, and therefore increasing magazine capacity from 13 to 17 would make the G17 "more lethal" than the BHP.
Semantics, I know, but an unknowledgable reporter reading a release or listening to a presentation could make the jump in technical definition.
morbidbattlecry
01-11-13, 15:19
There go the rest of the Gen 4 mags.
Soldier Systems has an article on it:
http://soldiersystems.net/2013/01/11/uk-adopts-glock-replace-browning-hi-power/
In a SERPA type holster no less.
There go the rest of the Gen 4 mags.
Which only really affects south paws. I do wonder what this contract will mean for the US market in terms of supplies and availability.
It's hard to imagine something like this being big news in America, but perhaps that's a sign of things to come. So many absurd statements made in that article hint at what it would be like to live in a society where the only thing civilians know about handguns comes from glimpses at what the military or law enforcement are allowed to possess.
Sad.
I do like to wake up in the morning to see an article involving a man posing with guns. How macho and invigorating. And it holds four more bullets. Wonderful. Four more serious injuries or deaths dished out before that OH so tedious reloading nonesense. Good work DM.
- S Platt, Chesham, 11/1/2013 1:41
DM, there's something very troubling about your readers' comments..that they all know too much about guns and side arms. Let's not forget that these are not playthings; these are primarily designed to disable if not end a man's life and send him into eternity for ever.
- bille1319, portrush, 11/1/2013 3:12
Damned pansy Brits.
Smart move for the Brits.
Congrats.
In one of the Jack Reacher novels, it's mentioned that his recommendation to select the Beretta rather than the Glock resulted in the military selecting the M9 as the new service pistol. That really explained why all those people have tried so hard to kill him in all seventeen novels. They're current and former members of the Armed Forces stuck with the M9 all these years!:p
Good decision by the Brits.
DanjojoUSMC
01-11-13, 21:30
Isn't there some guy who posts on here from the Polish Army who thinks Glocks are not rugged enough for military use LOL.
Glad to see the UK make a great pistol choice.
Pat
Think he is talking about the light strikes. Still a reason some pick hammer-fired DA or DA/SA. Most civilian shooters have fresher, better ammo and cleaner conditions.
Business_Casual
01-12-13, 06:12
Think he is talking about the light strikes. Still a reason some pick hammer-fired DA or DA/SA. Most civilian shooters have fresher, better ammo and cleaner conditions.
I understand second-strike, but that isn't what many, if not most, train to do.
Non-diagnostic gun handling teaches tap-rack-bang, regardless of empty chamber or too hard primer...
bc
sinlessorrow
01-12-13, 12:42
Now the question is when will WE get our heads out of our asses and get a decent service pistol to replace the M9?
The M9 is a good service pistol though large. The issue is they are still rocking Gen 1 locking blocks last I heard from my friend. Current Gen 3 blocks have a life of 20,000 rounds.
Good for the Brits though, I wonder if they fixed the extractor issues?
DanjojoUSMC
01-12-13, 14:14
I understand second-strike, but that isn't what many, if not most, train to do.
Non-diagnostic gun handling teaches tap-rack-bang, regardless of empty chamber or too hard primer...
bc
For light-strikes specifically besides the hard primers, if the innards are dirty you can have it simulating under-powered ammo - "clean the channel" As far as I know none of the striker fired pistols have as strong or positive ignition.
I believe second strike could come into play in a small space where you are emergency pointing and pulling the trigger till the bg goes down. Average person in that situation won't notice the first click immediately. People still often pull the trigger a few times after mags are empty on carbines and pistols.
my friend in the British army has told me they were having ad/nd's galore with the sig p226's!
Glocks will serve them well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gawXdz8PaqE
They are moving to the model of clearing rooms with pistol instead of rifle. A
sinlessorrow
01-14-13, 01:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gawXdz8PaqE
They are moving to the model of clearing rooms with pistol instead of rifle. A
Ewww room clearing with a handgun......
Also saw some L129A1 goodness in the background.
my friend in the British army has told me they were having ad/nd's galore with the sig p226's!
If they're having a problem with ND's with the SIGs, then just wait until they Glocks. I'm sure the SERPA's will help too.:rolleyes:
I highly doubt that, it was more of an off-the-cuff remark. Doesn't necessarily mean SOP will be to sling your 5.56 BULLPUP RIFLE for your pistol--even if he may think it "makes it a lot safer to conduct your job".
As a 21st century military there are probably 1 million important things you dwell on. #1 million and 1 might be what your standard issue pistol is. YMMV
Everyone wants to replace the M9 but I don't seem to hear as much chatter about replacing the 110 year old bullet construction?
I have shot a fair number of Gen 4's including the one I purchased and never had an issue.
PatNot saying you're wrong, but I'd have to see it. The 30274 ejector helps but if you ever watch ejection from third person it can get ugly on stock guns.
We're talking about British Reporters.. Much like our own. Zero knowledge about firearms and, while on the subject of the British, this is right in line with Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels. I'm on the second book, Die Trying, and Reacher explains, after having a Glock 17 pointed at him, how he was involved in the original trials to replace the 1911 and chose the M9 over the 17 because it wasn't plastic and had a bit more "stopping power." This after he just mentioned both are 9mms. DUMMY. Good choice for the Brits but don't expect idiot reporters to do anything but sensationalize.
Good stories, but he makes mistakes on guns in every one of them!
I would like to comment on the first Gen4 Glock 19 pistols! They were Rubbish! "Limp wristing" was given by Smyrna GA for problems.
I sent a registered letter to the head office in Austria. Reply "Make this man happy?" Gift of 6 G17 magazines were sent. I was happy!
But after Glock GA refused to sell Gen4 till the problems were fixed! They were fixed, main spring, ejectors, extractors, replaced, lots of trial and errors. Heard of no more problems with new issues.
When the first Glocks were brought into Canada, in 1984, light primer hits were noted, on IVI hardball, primers were hard (Ammo made for Sterling Sub Guns) I had conversations with plant, my suggestion, make firing pin spring stronger. They tried that, pull trigger, slide started to open!
Solution, the profile of the firing pin was changed, thinner point, problem fixed. Not a bad change, Glock pistol.
Good stories, but he makes mistakes on guns in every one of them!
This is why I prefer more mature writers like Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child. That said, seems every army is going Glock nowdays when they select a new pistol.
my friend in the British army has told me they were having ad/nd's galore with the sig p226's!Nasty side effect of having a sissy population never touching a gun until they get into the military.
Business_Casual
01-14-13, 17:14
Nasty side effect of having a sissy population never touching a gun until they get into the military.
Yep, sure. Go roam around a housing estate with an American accent.
bc
G34Shooter
01-14-13, 17:27
Yep good ammo and not holding the gun like a limp noodle will do a lot to stop the crying I hear about brass in ones face. I have shot a fair number of Gen 4's including the one I purchased and never had an issue.
Pat
With all do respect, you shouldn't be so cocky just because you've been lucky with the ones you shot. My eight prior Glocks did not eject brass into my face consistently like my Gen 4 G19 before I started using Apex's extractor. I think the years of Glock Talk rubbed off on you.
morbidbattlecry
01-14-13, 18:19
With all do respect, you shouldn't be so cocky just because you've been lucky with the ones you shot. My eight prior Glocks did not eject brass into my face consistently like my Gen 4 G19 before I started using Apex's extractor. I think the years of Glock Talk rubbed off on you.
I know it will be a long time before i trust another glock. And i wanted to be a fanboy.
Alaskapopo
01-14-13, 18:57
With all do respect, you shouldn't be so cocky just because you've been lucky with the ones you shot. My eight prior Glocks did not eject brass into my face consistently like my Gen 4 G19 before I started using Apex's extractor. I think the years of Glock Talk rubbed off on you.
I have not had the bad experiences nor seen them and a fair number of guys are shooting Gen 4 glocks at the club. I don't think the issue is with the extractor at all rather the guns are a bit over sprung or at least were when they first came out. The reason I say that is when you shoot these guns with hotter ammo the problem seems to go away. I simply feel the problem is way overstated. I need to see it in person as well.
Pat
G34Shooter
01-14-13, 20:35
You didn't experience it but what about Randy Lee, Wayne Dobbs, Nyeti, Tim Lau and dozens of other members here?
Alaskapopo
01-14-13, 20:59
You didn't experience it but what about Randy Lee, Wayne Dobbs, Nyeti, Tim Lau and dozens of other members here?
I can't speak for them only what I have seen. What ammo where they using? When where their guns made what spring number was in them. Glock has recoil springs numbered now to make sure you get the correct one.
Pat
G34Shooter
01-14-13, 21:31
I can't speak for them only what I have seen. What ammo where they using? When where their guns made what spring number was in them. Glock has recoil springs numbered now to make sure you get the correct one.
Pat
11 of us tested, I can only speak for me but my Gen 4 G19 was manufactured March of this year with the current RSA, and I've used various practice to duty ammo. The hotter ammo had less btf but it still existed.
Notes.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/13d7b205.jpg
Will, I read the same thing..."more deadly"? Who knew....You have to relize the ignorance of the majority of the public on any matter. Most lack any critical thinking skills and without thought believe what ever in said on the T.V news and the movies like they were words spoken from God Almighty, The mass T.V educated are misinformed,illinformed and underinformed, I call them vidiots.
Yep, sure. Go roam around a housing estate with an American accent.bc
That is so true, it even works with a Scouse accent (Liverpool accent)
My Wife and I, years ago, we are 20 years married now.
Living in Canada then, off the plane in London, two signs, riff raff, and Yanks, go left, Right, returning Brits (OK maybe not exactly like that!)
we trudged off to the right.
Just my Wife and I! Hundreds went the other way. Two young guys, standing behind a desk, chatting, we stood behind the red line, as indicated.
Just come off a 6 hour flight! Me "You two on strike, or what?"
One went behind his own desk, the other said "Come forward" not that pleasant, we walked forward, he snapped "One at a time!"
Me, "If you think you are talking to my Wife, without me, you better think again" Now the Liverpool accent gets stronger, when my mood takes a dip.
He, "No trouble Scouse" thinking he was just about to be dragged over the counter (It was not going to happen, but he did not know that) he was real pleasant then.
Love coming in from an International Flight, "Welcome home" as I hand my US Passport over.
11 of us tested, I can only speak for me but my Gen 4 G19 was manufactured March of this year with the current RSA, and I've used various practice to duty ammo. The hotter ammo had less btf but it still existed.Yeah we're OT but I wouldn't bother. The people I've seen with "no issues" usually means they haven't had a stovepipe and don't notice the occasional 5 or 6 o'clock ejection over their head. I laugh when ammo gets mentioned. It's a 9mm luger gun that shoots 9mm luger. If a 5.56 AR choked on decent 223 we would rightfully tear it a new one.
Magic_Salad0892
01-15-13, 12:06
If a 5.56 AR choked on decent 223 we would rightfully tear it a new one.
Actually. A lot of members here defended KAC for porting the early SR-15s for 5.56mm pressured ammo.
They wouldn't cycle almost any .223.
Alaskapopo
01-15-13, 14:30
Yeah we're OT but I wouldn't bother. The people I've seen with "no issues" usually means they haven't had a stovepipe and don't notice the occasional 5 or 6 o'clock ejection over their head. I laugh when ammo gets mentioned. It's a 9mm luger gun that shoots 9mm luger. If a 5.56 AR choked on decent 223 we would rightfully tear it a new one.
If that were the case then there is no problem. Lets see your complaining about a gun that works and throws brass over your head once in a while. If that is the extent of your problems then life is good. The reality is semi auto firearms are designed with a certain specification range in mind. Sometimes ammo on the low end of the power scale does not work in gun sprung for ammo on the higher end. Not the end of the world. Simple solution is not shoot better ammo.
Pat
Bottom line...Glock is putting out at least some defective handguns and haven't acknowledged, let alone fixed, the problem.
Alaskapopo
01-15-13, 19:03
Bottom line...Glock is putting out at least some defective handguns and haven't acknowledged, let alone fixed, the problem.
That is where I disagree. Something must have been fixed as I am not seeing any problems. They did address early problems with different recoil springs. Anyone done a poll to find out how many problem guns their are out there percentage wise.
Pat
Actually. A lot of members here defended KAC for porting the early SR-15s for 5.56mm pressured ammo.
They wouldn't cycle almost any .223.Do you know if they were tuned to 5.56 with a CAR buffer? (talking brass 223 of course)
If that were the case then there is no problem. Lets see your complaining about a gun that works and throws brass over your head once in a while. If that is the extent of your problems then life is good.As I mentioned before the 30274 ejector helps (had a stoppage w the stock ejector out of the box). Yet the extra clearance that turns potential stoppages into poor extractions is not an acceptable margin of safety for me. Randy has put time into this, he's highlighted the flaws in Glock's LCI design and its overreliance on the mag for support during extraction. So all of this may not bother you, I get that. For me, different story.
The reality is semi auto firearms are designed with a certain specification range in mind. Sometimes ammo on the low end of the power scale does not work in gun sprung for ammo on the higher end.Understand what you're saying and agree. obviously Glock gears the RSA for duty and +P loads. Again, for my use, I want proper function with other saami 9mm.
Take care.
Magic_Salad0892
01-16-13, 07:03
Do you know if they were tuned to 5.56 with a CAR buffer? (talking brass 223 of course)
They were. The SR-15 uses a 3 oz. CAR buffer.
Thought so, thanks. I'd be interested in hearing those user's arguments. For now I'll have to stand by my original statement. The only merit I see for setting a gun up like that is running suppressed but no one is going to buy a 16" gun for that.
Now the question is when will WE get our heads out of our asses and get a decent service pistol to replace the M9?
There's nothing inherently wrong with the M9... Yes it's big and heavy, but it's accurate and with decent (not checkmate) magazines reliable.
The military being what it is, even if the M9 is replaced, the magazine supplier will go to the lowest bidder, most likely leading to the same reliablity issues we see in the M9.
sinlessorrow
01-17-13, 21:55
There's nothing inherently wrong with the M9... Yes it's big and heavy, but it's accurate and with decent (not checkmate) magazines reliable.
The military being what it is, even if the M9 is replaced, the magazine supplier will go to the lowest bidder, most likely leading to the same reliablity issues we see in the M9.
I have also heard they Army contracted out locking blocks and are still using gen 1 blocks? Those have a horridly short life span vs the new gen 3 that require a pin to punched out to remove them and are designed to be tougher.
That said the british will be served well but if they are indeed having ND's with the Sig I can only imagine the glock...
Nasty side effect of having a sissy population never touching a gun until they get into the military.
Exactly... The German's over here average one ND a week. Luckily most of them have been rifles but 2 have been .50's inside the wire!
They've also shot 2 of their own guys since I arrived...
Alaskapopo
01-17-13, 23:35
There's nothing inherently wrong with the M9... Yes it's big and heavy, but it's accurate and with decent (not checkmate) magazines reliable.
The military being what it is, even if the M9 is replaced, the magazine supplier will go to the lowest bidder, most likely leading to the same reliablity issues we see in the M9.
The M9 has a short service life because parts break on it. Slides locking blocks etc. Glocks are much more durable and glock mags are inexpensive so I am not worried about getting stuck with unreliable mags. Plus the M9 is a DA SA with a long trigger reach in DA.
Pat
sinlessorrow
01-17-13, 23:59
The M9 has a short service life because parts break on it. Slides locking blocks etc. Glocks are much more durable and glock mags are inexpensive so I am not worried about getting stuck with unreliable mags. Plus the M9 is a DA SA with a long trigger reach in DA.
Pat
The current gen 3 locking blocks have a life of 20,000+ rounds, gen 1's had like a 6,000 round life. Slide life is also around 25,000+. Then again I am pretty sure the Army M9 still uses gen 1 blocks contracted to others than Beretta but I could be wrong. You can tell because the Gen 3 blocks require the removal of the roll pin holding the block plunger, the plunger has to be removed then the block comes out. It has 3-4 key design changes greatly reducing wear and increase strength.
While the DA trigger sucks, when the hammer is back the trigger is great. Beretta mags are also inexpensive at $14 for Check mate mags(the new ones are very good, not the phosphated ones) The reason check mate mags got a bad rep was they were originally required to be phosphated by contract, when you mixed that with the sand they were jam-o-matics, they fixed this.
The Glock is an excellent weapon but alot of the bad rep that the M9 gets is the same bad rep the M4/M16 gets. Old outdated parts, improper maint/replacement, and crappy mags.
Whille I do not think that the reporter has any knowledge on the subject whatsoever, it can be stated that weapons that carry more ammunition have higher battlefield lethality, and therefore increasing magazine capacity from 13 to 17 would make the G17 "more lethal" than the BHP.
Semantics, I know, but an unknowledgable reporter reading a release or listening to a presentation could make the jump in technical definition.
Glocks are easier to shoot at speed too, possibly upping their lethal quotient.
Alaskapopo
01-18-13, 02:46
The current gen 3 locking blocks have a life of 20,000+ rounds, gen 1's had like a 6,000 round life. Slide life is also around 25,000+. Then again I am pretty sure the Army M9 still uses gen 1 blocks contracted to others than Beretta but I could be wrong. You can tell because the Gen 3 blocks require the removal of the roll pin holding the block plunger, the plunger has to be removed then the block comes out. It has 3-4 key design changes greatly reducing wear and increase strength.
While the DA trigger sucks, when the hammer is back the trigger is great. Beretta mags are also inexpensive at $14 for Check mate mags(the new ones are very good, not the phosphated ones) The reason check mate mags got a bad rep was they were originally required to be phosphated by contract, when you mixed that with the sand they were jam-o-matics, they fixed this.
The Glock is an excellent weapon but alot of the bad rep that the M9 gets is the same bad rep the M4/M16 gets. Old outdated parts, improper maint/replacement, and crappy mags.
A Glock 17 can go well over 150K. The M9 is not a terrible but give me a Glock any day of the week.
pat
G34Shooter
01-18-13, 10:25
If that were the case then there is no problem. Lets see your complaining about a gun that works and throws brass over your head once in a while. If that is the extent of your problems then life is good. The reality is semi auto firearms are designed with a certain specification range in mind. Sometimes ammo on the low end of the power scale does not work in gun sprung for ammo on the higher end. Not the end of the world. Simple solution is not shoot better ammo.
Pat
Brass to my FACE and EYEBALL is not over my head, the only time I truly tried to record it was when it happened to be 114 degrees at the range so we stopped way short with the gun being so hot I couldn't even hold it. Below is the pic and video of it hitting me in the glasses.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/brasstoglasses2_zpsf1ec65c8.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/brasstoglasses_zps518b9063.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lQIQiBf7SWY#t=57s
sinlessorrow
01-18-13, 12:50
A Glock 17 can go well over 150K. The M9 is not a terrible but give me a Glock any day of the week.
pat
Is there any documentation about the service life of glock parts showing 150,000 rounds?
DanjojoUSMC
01-18-13, 13:21
Personally would not want to be on the line with 20+ military personnel learning and qualifying with Glocks, many of them holding and shooting a pistol for the first time (especially in the UK). No matter how much we stress safe handling and basic safety rules, people goof up.
Failure2Stop
01-18-13, 14:24
Glocks are easier to shoot at speed too, possibly upping their lethal quotient.
Eh, that's a really hard one to quantify.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Bottom line...Glock is putting out at least some defective handguns and haven't acknowledged, let alone fixed, the problem.
I walked right up to a salty looking guy behind the Glock counter at the SHOT show and asked him for some insight into this issue. He DID admit that there WAS a problem and proceeded to show me what it was and how it was fixed. He also told me that Glock will happily fix any of the guns that went out during the run of guns that had the issue.
According to him the Glocks coming off the shelves today do not have this issue. I would love to hear anyone with experience to the contrary. I bought all of mine before this issue and they work perfectly. Other people have bought theirs after this issue was corrected and from what I have seen so far, the issue has been dealt with and corrected. For those who acquired their Glock during the bad run, Glock will fix it free of charge.
Congrats to the Brits. That is what I'd want to carry if I were one of them.
Failure2Stop
01-18-13, 15:49
Personally would not want to be on the line with 20+ military personnel learning and qualifying with Glocks, many of them holding and shooting a pistol for the first time (especially in the UK). No matter how much we stress safe handling and basic safety rules, people goof up.
Plenty of militaries and police departments don't seen to have much of an issue with it.
Don't like Glocks? Don't buy one.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
The actual worse pupil's, ex British Cops! They had no idea, now these were Ex Cops in Canada, immigrated there, and they had gone into the Private Security Industry, Revolver, or Glock, not so good.
The QPF Tactical team, went Glock in 1987, in Quebec, I gave the 6 firearms Instructors a one day program, so they could teach the 30 man team.
I left them with the written lesson plan, on ringed binder's, they made notes during the program. Did not have any problems.
Actually sent me a nice thank you letter.
My Gen4 Glock 19, had all kinds of problems, OK now. Likes 147g rounds, more than 115s.
morbidbattlecry
01-18-13, 17:37
I walked right up to a salty looking guy behind the Glock counter at the SHOT show and asked him for some insight into this issue. He DID admit that there WAS a problem and proceeded to show me what it was and how it was fixed. He also told me that Glock will happily fix any of the guns that went out during the run of guns that had the issue.
According to him the Glocks coming off the shelves today do not have this issue. I would love to hear anyone with experience to the contrary. I bought all of mine before this issue and they work perfectly. Other people have bought theirs after this issue was corrected and from what I have seen so far, the issue has been dealt with and corrected. For those who acquired their Glock during the bad run, Glock will fix it free of charge.
Congrats to the Brits. That is what I'd want to carry if I were one of them.
If you can convince them your gun has the problem. Some people have sent there guns in 3-4 times. I have a Sept dated gen 3 that through brass at my face every 3-4 rounds. Gen 4 guns seam to be running good now but I think the could care less about Gen3s.
I walked right up to a salty looking guy behind the Glock counter at the SHOT show and asked him for some insight into this issue. He DID admit that there WAS a problem and proceeded to show me what it was and how it was fixed. He also told me that Glock will happily fix any of the guns that went out during the run of guns that had the issue.
So...what was the issue and what was the fix?
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