Rem 700 SPS in .223 or .308?

[Blstr88]

I was pretty set to get the Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 until I saw the .223 sitting right next to it and got to thinking...

.223 PROs
- .223 is considerably lower priced than .308
- I already have all the dies and a ton of brass to reload .223

What kind of realistic, accurate range can I expect with the 700 chambered in .223? I think the majority of my long range shooting (at least at first) will be inside 300 yards...but I'd like the ability to reach out further than that in the future.

Will I always wish I went with the .308 after I get the .223? Or can the .223 fill the bill?

A little background on what Im looking to get the rifle for...Im a long time shooter but almost entirely pistol. I built my first AR a little while ago and have been enjoying it. Looking to get a bolt gun for longer ranges, just punching paper really. With all this AR/AK buying frenzy going on, I thought itd be a great time to concentrate on something else for now.

I've already narrowed it down to the 700 since it seems to shoot great from the box, but can be upgraded little by little with time as I shoot more...just not sure what caliber to go with?

[ForTehNguyen]

ive noticed resale on .223 remmy 700s is pretty bad, seems like not a lot of people want one. .308 always holds their value better.

[TriviaMonster]

If you are just shooting paper with hand loads, you can shoot a 223 bolt gun out to 700-800 all day long with some quality SMKs or other heavier grain bullets. Inside that range .308 offers nothing for punching paper over .223 except for slightly easier holes to see and bucking the wind a little better. But .308 can take care of predators at much greater range than .223.

Its funny how we never traded a little bit of freedom of religion after the Jonestown Massacre.

[Blstr88]

Hmm so .223 will get me out to 700-800 yards comfortably? I cant imagine any scenario when I'd ever go further than that. Im not even sure where I could go to get a shot further than 700 yards...

Im not planning to hunt with it either...hmm that .223 is sounding pretty good.

[jpipes]

With the right twist barrel and bullet weight combo, you can get a .223 to 1200 with no issues.

If it's a factory 700, it most likely comes with a 9 twist...Remington hasn't figured out that 8 twist gives every shooter much more flexibility. As such, be wary that you might be limited to 69-75 grain bullet weight maximum. If its a 9 twist, the 75 amax *should* stabilize, and will get you to 800 with no problem, 1k if you are masochistic.

All of the above is assuming you load your own. If you don't, and are limited to factory ammo, a 308 might be your better option due to ammo selection.

FWIW, my .308 sits and collects dust while my .223 sees the most action. It's stupid accurate, cheap to load for, components are usually easy to come by (the current mess not withstanding), and smokes my 308 to 1k and beyond. In my opinion, there is no downside.

[SteveS]

223 is half the cost of 308 and makes holes in paper just fine. Try to get a 1 in 7 if you build it.

[TriviaMonster]

223 in bolt guns is pretty underrated for paper punching. I see a lot of guys on the 300-500yd range wasting a lot of cash on 308 & the like when a 223 will be just as fun at those distances with a gun they don't hunt with anyways.

Its funny how we never traded a little bit of freedom of religion after the Jonestown Massacre.

[andy t]

I would say get .223. That's what I did when I first got into it. I found a good deal on a used LTR 700. I am able to get sub MOA groups at 300 yards (the longest range I have regular access too).
I am sure you could get to at least 600 yards with no issues.
It would probably be best to find one with 1 in 9 twist instead of the more common 1 in 12 if you want the option of longer range.

[Alaskapopo]

A vote for .308 here. If its going to be a bolt it might as well have some authority.
Here is mine.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/manually%20operated%20rifles/Remington700withNightforce.jpg

[dstocum]

It comes down to figuring out what your realistic expectations of the rifle are.

The thing is, while you certainly can build a 223 that will shoot well out to 800+, most factory rifles are not designed for it. You're pushing the ability of the cartridge at that point. A 1:12 twist rifle isn't going to cut it, and a 20" 1:9 is a gamble regarding stability of heavier bullets (70+ grain). Whereas, it's pretty easy to buy a factory 308 that will shoot past 800 without any special needs.

My advice would actually be to bypass the 700, since the SPS Tactical is the only heavy barrel 223 that I see that's even a 1:9 twist and the stock is a freaking joke. I just bought an AAC-SD (same as an SPS Tactical with a threaded barrel) and I'm not even going to shoot it until I restock it, because the stock will flex and touch the barrel when I'm shooting off a bipod, guaranteed. I knew that when I bought it but just FYI, the stock is known to be a total piece of shit.

Nothing against the 700, I own several myself, but if you want a 223 that you can shoot at extended range without putting extra work into it, there just aren't any factory 700s that fit the bill.

I would strongly suggest buying a Tikka T3 Varmint, 223 with a 1:8 twist, 24" barrel instead. The stock on the T3 is worlds better than on the SPS Tactical (I own both guns, so I can compare them side by side), and the 1:8 twist will allow you to use heavier bullets, up to the 82gr Berger non-VLD probably, with no problems. It's even a bit less expensive than the 700 SPS Tactical. An 82 grain Berger BT Match at 2700 fps won't give up much to a 175 grain Sierra Matchking 308 at 2600 fps out to 1000 yards.

Another option is a CZ 527 Varmint; it's a 24" barrel, 1:9 twist which is not ideal, but at least the stock is decent (though it looks goofy).

The Savage 10 Precision Carbine and 10 FCP-K are options, but again, they're 1:9 twist. Also, my Savage 10 FP-SR in 308 is nowhere near the quality of my Tikka or any of my 700s. The accustock is supposed to be pretty good, and they have nice triggers.

The Ruger M77 Tactical is, again, 1:9 twist. I've never been all that impressed with the Ruger M77 triggers, either. Looks like it has the same shitty Hogue stock as the SPS Tactical. It's likely the most expensive of the rifles I mentioned.

There are probably other options in the same price range, but of the ones I've looked at the Tikka is the clear choice. There is one downside I should mention, which is that it is a 6+1 round magazine fed gun and the magazines are stupid expensive, $70 or so. Buy one spare, keep it in your range bag, and try like hell not to lose the mag that came with the gun.

[Matt-J2]

I'd second the Tikka recommendation, though I don't own one, I've just shot one. I don't know about any other companies offhand, but I know that Manners will inlet stocks for the T3 action if you want to change the stock style. A few stocks keep the T3 bottom metal/mags, but most you need to get the CDI bottom metal and AI mags(which might be a plus?). I don't know CDI quality, though.

Another note, if you decided to go with something other than .223, the T3 has a pretty wide range of chamberings and you can even get the .260 Rem, something Remington itself doesn't seem to offer.
I'll repeat my disclaimer that I've never owned a Tikka, I've just shot a few and have been impressed with their feel and accuracy. Very small sample size for sure, but it's enough that I'm looking at getting one myself.

[Butter]

Icame across this as well, but decided to go .308 simply because I wanted to go 1,000+

[jpipes]

An 82 grain Berger BT Match at 2700 fps won't give up much to a 175 grain Sierra Matchking 308 at 2600 fps out to 1000 yards.


Excellent post, and I think it's important to point out this quote in particular. I shoot that same bullet out of a fast twist Brux, and I point them. 8208xbr, Wolf SRM primers, and LC brass has me right at 2905 fps, and this combo puts a 308 of any configuration to shame in cost, recoil, and performance out to 1200 (furthest I've shot it). I'm flirting in 6.5mm territory with this one.

When you have a .223 bolt gun set up correctly, there is really no reason to shoot a 308 unless you don't roll your own ammo, or have a specific need for a .30 cal bullet.

[-one-]

Will I always wish I went with the .308 after I get the .223?

I had the same question when I was deciding on a 700. I ended up building a 6.8 SPC upper in the meantime and fell in love with it. I think I'm a recoil junky or something. I ended up getting the 700 in .308 and I'm reassured in my decision every time I pull the trigger. :)

[-one-]

If its going to be a bolt it might as well have some authority.

Hahaha, I fully agree with that one.

[-one-]

Figure I'd join the picture posting fun.
14866

[xjustintimex]

I think it will leave you wanting. Nothing wrong with the .223 for what you say your needs are.. but if regret is what you are worried about, I know I would regret not getting a bolt gun in .308. If its a bolt gun you might as well make it hit hard.

Despite that.. As listed above there are a lot of reason to go with the .223

[lunchbox]

What about a 700 in 30-06? You'll never have to worry about there ever being a shortage of bullets, relaoding supplies, or worry about crazy times. 223/308 is slap out (or high$)just about everywhere now, 30-06 is plentyful. Just a thought.

[KAZ22]

I'll never be without my 308, but since I've retired and have the time to shoot I leave them aside and shoot the 223. It is a sweet round to reload and will deliver sub 1/2" with many bullet/powder choices with a 1 lb can of powder going a long way and cheap brass to be had. I'm playing out to 500yds and an afternoon of shooting doesn't punish. Regards

[markm]

We run them both. The .223 is funner and cheaper to shoot and reaches out to 1000 yards with 77 SMKs.

I wouldn't give up my .308... I love shooting it too... but I love the .223 with a suppressor. It's like a 1000 yard pellet gun.

[JBecker 72]

A vote for .308 here. If its going to be a bolt it might as well have some authority.
Here is mine.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/manually%20operated%20rifles/Remington700withNightforce.jpg

I like this. Soon, I plan on taking my stock 700 SPS tactical and recreating something along these lines.

[JStor]

I'd go with the .308 Win. since you already have the AR15 area covered. Look beyond just punching paper...some day you might need that heavier bullet.

[-one-]

I'd go with the .308 Win. since you already have the AR15 area covered. Look beyond just punching paper...some day you might need that heavier bullet.

Indeed. OP, you asked if you'd regret not getting a .308. I've never heard anyone wonder if they'd regret not getting a .223 over a .308. That should tell you all you need to know. ;)

[Gem1950]

Rem 700 SPS Tactical (.223) - Receiver & Barrel
Bolt knob by Keith Johns @ AZ Precision
Timney Trigger
Rad Tac Bottom Metal by Randy @ R&D Precision
Accuracy International 10 rnd. Magazine
EGW 20 MOA Scope Base
Nikon M-223, 3 -12 x 42 FS BDC 600 Scope
Leupold QRW Quick Release Scope Rings
Manners MCS-T2-700 Stock
Harris S BRM Bipod (6"-9") w/ Alpha-Bravo Locking Lever

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/draper1950/Rem700008.jpg