View Full Version : What Makes An AK PreBan?
Hey Everyone,
First I used the search function and didn't find an answer.
Second I realize this question is very naive but this site has always been good to me regarding gun questions so I figured I would turn here for an answer to what is probably a very simple question for those in the know.
So what makes an AK pre ban? I have a 1964 Romanian AK imported by Century Arms that I purchased legally from a registered FFL in the State of NY over two years ago. It came with a pre ban 30 round magazine.
The climate in my state at the moment seems to be suggesting that there will be a very strict capacity restriction put in place in the near future. To be honest the climate is so sensitive I am reluctant to bring any high capacity magazines to the range with either of my rifles. But, I'm a huge fan of my AK at the moment. I've been running it more then my AR as the ammo is a tad cheaper, and I was lucky and got a very accurate Romanian that is holding groups well within what I have read as being top notch for the platform.
I only own pre ban high capacity magazines for this rifle, all purchased legally. The rumors I am hearing around the fire are suggesting that our capacity ban will eliminate our ability to use pre ban magazines in post ban guns, turning what is currently my favorite rifle into just a hunk of steal if I stay in this state.
Please don't tell me to move. I have a job here, I have benefits here and I have a wife with a disability and a new born son. Moving is not an option for me at this time.
Thanks in advance for any advice you are willing to give.
Preban generally refers to a gun brought to the US before the 1989 import ban.
yeah, pre ban obviously means before the ban, but there have been several bans, including some in NY, I think...
Based on what you describe, your rifle is before any ban, which should allow you to do what you please without worrying about 922r, domestic parts... Of course thats federally. Probably post on the NY forums to see what is relevant specific to your locale.
If you live in NYS a firearm legally possessed prior to Sept 14,1994.
As in legally possessed by the current owner, or by someone in the United States?
I don't think Century imported Romanian parts guns until recently.
I don't think Century imported Romanian parts guns until recently.
AFAIK...
Romanian AK type firearms and AK parts kits didn't get imported until after the Cold War ended and industry in Romanian started to privatize (post-1992).
Inter-Ordnance imported Romanian semi-auto only AKs (WUM-1, WUM-2) from the mid/late-1990s and, I believe, these were the first Romanian AK rifles to be imported into the USA.
So what makes an AK pre ban? I have a 1964 Romanian AK imported by Century Arms that I purchased legally from a registered FFL in the State of NY over two years ago. It came with a pre ban 30 round magazine.
The parts that make up your AK were made in 1964. This is what is stamped on the trunion.
This gun was assembled over here sometime in the mid 1990s to today.
It is not preban.
Century Arms imports used AK parts and builds them into a compliance rifle to comply with the import ban.
The parts that make up your AK were made in 1964. This is what is stamped on the trunion.
This gun was assembled over here sometime in the mid 1990s to today.
It is not preban.
Century Arms imports used AK parts and builds them into a compliance rifle to comply with the import ban.
This is the kind of answer that makes this site a reliable source of information. Thank you ScottRyan.
KalashniKEV
01-14-13, 14:17
This is the kind of answer that makes this site a reliable source of information. Thank you ScottRyan.
Except that he's wrong.
The vast majority of CAI Romanian AKs are factory guns from Cugir.
Only the GP 1975 rifles are built on the US made receiver (DCI/ NoDak) and Green Mountain barrel.
Starting from the original importation in 1997:
1) All WUM-1 and WUM-2 guns are factory Romanian AKs.
2) All ROMAK-1, ROMAK-3, and ROMAK-3 guns are factory Romanian AKs.
3) All SAR-1, SAR-2, and SAR-3 guns are factory Romanian AKs.
4) All the WASR 10s (no features), GP WASR 10s (threaded and bayo lug), and WASR-10/63s (underfolder) are Romanian factory AKs. These are the guns that were coming in with a standard bolt and carrier, standard trunion, inside a narrow, single stack mag well that was opened up post importation. You can spot them because they have no dimple in the receiver.
KalashniKEV
01-14-13, 14:20
Except that he's wrong.
I should add that he is correct in pointing out that the date stamped on the trunnion has nothing to do with when the receiver was manufactured or when the rifle was assembled... but we all knew that, right?
I should add that he is correct in pointing out that the date stamped on the trunnion has nothing to do with when the receiver was manufactured or when the rifle was assembled... but we all knew that, right?
And just for further clarification.
When SAR 1, 2 & 3s were made 922r compliant by CAI that qualifies as "assembled" even if it is still a Romanian receiver. So I'm not sure we can correctly say Scottryan was wrong.
Furthermore, I don't think many of the imported "sporters" came in with 1964 dates so it probably is a build.
As in legally possessed by the current owner, or by someone in the United States?
By anyone,any where.
your fine, you have a wasr-10 correct. This is a post-ban or ban complient gun,no bayo bug flash hider ect ect.. Your mags are most likely fine aswell. That being said a local shop said their supplier wont guarantee this so they wont sell them my guess is they deal alot with alantic firearms. That being keep shooting them, Shit i was shooting my brothers wasr last weekend with a 75 round drum.
forget what i said....were done
KalashniKEV
01-15-13, 09:16
And just for further clarification.
When SAR 1, 2 & 3s were made 922r compliant by CAI that qualifies as "assembled" even if it is still a Romanian receiver. So I'm not sure we can correctly say Scottryan was wrong.
That depends on your opinion of "built" vs. "assembled."
If the gun was built in Cugir and post-import CAI dropped in a US FCG and installed a piston... well unless the infamous drunken monkeys put the piston on backwards (not possible) you should be able to fix most problems pretty easily in less than ten minutes using youtube.
If it's a Romanian Factory AK that Century opened up from single stack, there's more to go wrong and if too big it can't be fixed... but I've only seen too tight magwells and loose ones that Bubbah tried to "fix" so he could use ((10)) mags.
It's a very small... tiny percentage of CAI AKs that were Built here.
Furthermore, I don't think many of the imported "sporters" came in with 1964 dates so it probably is a build.
The "date" you are referring to is on the front trunnion. A "1964 dated" trunnion could potentially be found on any of the above rifles. It could have sat in a forgotten parts bin at Cugir, it could have been Commie DRMO'd from a Romanian Army installation, it could have come out of their Commie RESET program.
It's only a date that says when that trunnion was made. It's not the date of the rifle's manufacture.
As was pointed out, the first Romanian AK's were imported in 1997. There is no such thing as a "preban" Romanian AK (assuming that you're talking about a federal ban). In my opinion, the early imports showed the best quality.
That depends on your opinion of "built" vs. "assembled."
I'm using the ATF definition.
The "date" you are referring to is on the front trunnion. A "1964 dated" trunnion could potentially be found on any of the above rifles. It could have sat in a forgotten parts bin at Cugir, it could have been Commie DRMO'd from a Romanian Army installation, it could have come out of their Commie RESET program.
It's only a date that says when that trunnion was made. It's not the date of the rifle's manufacture.
Yes, I understand that. However the vast majority of CAI AKs were imported as "sporters" and then manufactured (ATF term) into 922r compliant rifles. I don't think any of those sporters had 1964 trunnion dates as most were current production rifles.
A 1964 trunnion date is usually a very good indicator of a parts kit gun. I've never seen a SAR or WASR series with anything like that kind of trunnion date.
KalashniKEV
01-17-13, 09:31
A 1964 trunnion date is usually a very good indicator of a parts kit gun. I've never seen a SAR or WASR series with anything like that kind of trunnion date.
Lot's of people have almost literally made themselves go insane trying to figure out which minor features and parts are characteristic of which model of Chinese AK imported from which year.
The Romanian guns are no different- the first rule is that there are no rules. (Example- 5.45 AK charging handles)
Lot's of people have almost literally made themselves go insane trying to figure out which minor features and parts are characteristic of which model of Chinese AK imported from which year.
The Romanian guns are no different- the first rule is that there are no rules. (Example- 5.45 AK charging handles)
For example, my "new" all matching entirely made in Romania Draco-C has a 1979 dated trunnion. It was obviously made using a new receiver and parts from a demilled rifle.
Lot's of people have almost literally made themselves go insane trying to figure out which minor features and parts are characteristic of which model of Chinese AK imported from which year.
The Romanian guns are no different- the first rule is that there are no rules. (Example- 5.45 AK charging handles)
KEV, I know you know this subject.
And I agree that all those things "could" have happened. But of the hundreds of "imported" sporters made compliant via 922r that have been in my hands I don't think I've ever seen a trunnion date from earlier than 97.
Seeing such a date would make me assume "parts kit" gun and I'd check the manufacturer of the receiver for the answer. Obviously if it is a Romanian receiver it most likely is an imported sporter.
I think you and I are probably debating a minor issue.
KEV, I know you know this subject.
And I agree that all those things "could" have happened. But of the hundreds of "imported" sporters made compliant via 922r that have been in my hands I don't think I've ever seen a trunnion date from earlier than 97.
Seeing such a date would make me assume "parts kit" gun and I'd check the manufacturer of the receiver for the answer. Obviously if it is a Romanian receiver it most likely is an imported sporter.
I think you and I are probably debating a minor issue.
I think you guys are and are probably confusing the OP further. The fact is that the OP's rifle is not pre-ban in the true sense, which I understand as the 1989 import ban. In fact, there are no Romanian pre-ban rifles.
As far as the AK/AKM platform goes, there are very few national variants with specific importers that are true pre-bans.
Except that he's wrong.
There is nothing in my post that is incorrect. You are reading into what I said and implying.
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