NY AWB II: Voted On And Passed [Archive]

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30 cal slut

01-14-13, 08:18

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/gov-cuomo-legislative-leaders-confident-gun-control-deal-finalized-days-article-1.1239477

I know this is probably repetitive, but here's what to do about it:

http://www.nysrpa.org/files/standupflyer.pdf

I've joined NYSRPA. Would encourage same.

Good luck NY.

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 08:23

He can go **** hisself.

montanadave

01-14-13, 08:46

Cuomo, who I don't know a lot about but am lead to believe has aspirations to national political office, may learn that gun-control for Democrats is much like abortion for Republicans. It's an issue that plays very well with the base, can win a lot of primaries, but will cost precious votes in a general election.

newyork

01-14-13, 08:58

And becoming prez is all this is about for him. "Making us all safer" with these bullshit laws will be a resume builder in his mind. He's a ****ing scum ****er.
Crossing fingers it won't pass. Called and emailed everyone.

Business_Casual

01-14-13, 09:05

Is there anyone who really thinks that going to 7 from 10 would do anything?

Who is going to make 7-round Glock 17 mags? This is just silly.

bc

newyork

01-14-13, 09:12

Noone will for 1 state. In effect, we won't be able to have anything but revolvers, 1911s, minis, and hunting style guns, levers, or Garands

Business_Casual

01-14-13, 09:19

Noone will for 1 state. In effect, we won't be able to have anything but revolvers, 1911s, minis, and hunting style guns, levers, or Garands

That's the calculus, I'm sure.

bc

VooDoo6Actual

01-14-13, 09:22

Oh yea like that will be effective.

BRILLIANT !

Spiffums

01-14-13, 09:22

Did Ya'll see the shark when NY jumped it or was it just an implied shark?

bondmid003

01-14-13, 10:41

Bad news for New Yorkers, I feel for them

sjc3081

01-14-13, 11:34

**** it I'm looking for any excuse to leave this whore house NY.

**I'd watch the thinly veiled racial tones and posts**
SWATcop556

JBecker 72

01-14-13, 11:51

Wait, so first you didn't need 17 rounds in your pistol or 30 in your rifle, so they made it 10. Now you don't need 10 rounds, so they make it 7. I see a pattern here and people who say they support the 2A but want "common sense" gun laws need to realize soon they will be coming for their bolt action hunting rifles and over under trap shotguns if they keep giving in to their demands.

I feel sorry for those stuck in NY, I have a bit of family there.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 12:28

Sorry, but I don't see that kind of rhetoric as helpful or appropriate.

Yep, I don't think I prefer any liberal socialists based upon religion. As far as being jewish, we could use another guy like Aaron Zelman.

That said, it mystifies me EVERYTIME when somebody jewish advocates gun control and statism. You'd think if anyone would know better it would be people who learned a really hard lesson only a few generations ago.

jmp45

01-14-13, 12:38

That said, it mystifies me EVERYTIME when somebody jewish advocates gun control and statism. You'd think if anyone would know better it would be people who learned a really hard lesson only a few generations ago.

I've never gotten that either.. really, really blind.

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 12:41

I've never gotten that either.. really, really blind.

Even worse is when people feel the need to point it out. ALL THE TIME. Nobody should advocate for gun control...PERIOD. none more so than the other.

montanadave

01-14-13, 12:59

Yep, I don't think I prefer any liberal socialists based upon religion. As far as being jewish, we could use another guy like Aaron Zelman.

That said, it mystifies me EVERYTIME when somebody jewish advocates gun control and statism. You'd think if anyone would know better it would be people who learned a really hard lesson only a few generations ago.

This group definitely DOES NOT fit in that category: http://jpfo.org/

I don't know anything about this group (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) beyond what I've seen while briefly surveying their website, but they are definitely on our side in this fight.

HackerF15E

01-14-13, 13:03

But of course there's no "slippery slope", right?

Once they get 10...that's all they'll ask for. Not 7. Certainly not going to 5. Definitely not 3 or 1.

NWPilgrim

01-14-13, 13:42

I think Cuomo owns stock in 1911 companies and is trying to force everyone to buy 1911s instead of plastic pistols!!! Oh, OK Mr. Cuomo I'll go buy another Springfield 1911. Anyone who prefers 1911s can't be all ad, right?

Seriously though, this is sTupid with a capital T. 7 rounds? Where does that number come from? His butt?

I dearly hope he will be the Democrat candidate for president in 2016. Someone this stupid would have to read everything he said from a teleprompter, and how could an idiot like that ever get elected president?!!

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 13:44

and how could an idiot like that ever get elected president?!!

Happened in 08, then again in 12.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 14:00

and how could an idiot like that ever get elected president?!!

Because we are a nation of idiots unfortunately. When more people watch Oprah or the Springer show than vote you know you have a problem.
Pat

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 14:01

Happened in 08, then again in 12.

:haha:

brickboy240

01-14-13, 14:09

Obama ran as Santa Claus.

There is no beating Santa Claus.

-brickboy240

30 cal slut

01-14-13, 14:22

Maybe some good will come of this.

The forthcoming legislation (what I've heard of it - it still remains to be fleshed out behind closed doors) would gawruntee a constitutional challenge on 2A and 4A grounds.

Mr. Gura will be very very busy, methinks, lol.

SMETNA

01-14-13, 14:25

The worst parts of this are:

"Under the plan, if a mental health professional believes someone--gun owner or not--poses a threat, they will be able to report that to their county mental health office, which would then convey the warning to law enforcement.
The information would then be included in a database that is used for background checks for gun purchasers. Should that person already be found to have a licensed weapon, police could suspend or revoke the license and confiscate the firearm."

DUE PROCESS ANYONE?????

" . . . . sale of ammunition on the Internet would be prohibited in New York; and background checks would be required for ammunition purchases."

" . . . . owners of firearms that are outlawed as a result of the expanded assault weapons ban would have to register them with the state and would be prevented from selling them in New York. Owners of those models would also not be able to keep the gun’s ammunition magazines."

I think much of this violates the constitution. The courts are going to have a field day with this.

Noodles

01-14-13, 14:58

But of course there's no "slippery slope", right?

Once they get 10...that's all they'll ask for. Not 7. Certainly not going to 5. Definitely not 3 or 1.

It's ok. If they pass this, it will be THE BEST argument for Slippery Slope. The next time someone proposes a 10 round mag limit, you can ask why not 7 like NYC, when they say 7 you can point to how poorly 7 is working in NYC, when they say 5 or 3 then they know it's getting too low and will start angering hunters and "rational" people.

The people of New York City have screwed themselves and it's time to pay up. I do feel bad for the people of NY State, but hey, you're free to move a little to the left until PA gets worse. My take on the USA is keep moving left, if you've hit California, you've gone too far.

I'm a little cautious because magazine limits in NY could become a Supreme Court case for the country... Depending on when that happens, it's possible that could go the wrong way and screw all of us for a long time. Hellar and McDonald only just barely worked out. If Magpul v NewYork didn't, a lot of damage could be done.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 15:14

Even worse is when people feel the need to point it out. ALL THE TIME. Nobody should advocate for gun control...PERIOD. none more so than the other.

While I agree that nobody should advocate gun control, there are some people who "should" know better than others.

For example Cuban immigrants tend to have a better real world understanding of the dangers of communism when compared to some liberal with a university degree in political science.

And sorry if it gets mentioned a lot, but guys like Metzenbaum were already politicians during WWII. He HAD to understand what happened in Europe. Yet he was willing to walk down that same road for some reason. And I'll never truly understand it.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 15:16

This group definitely DOES NOT fit in that category: http://jpfo.org/

I don't know anything about this group (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) beyond what I've seen while briefly surveying their website, but they are definitely on our side in this fight.

Pssst, look up the name I mentioned in the same post.

;)

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 15:23

While I agree that nobody should advocate gun control, there are some people who "should" know better than others.

For example Cuban immigrants tend to have a better real world understanding of the dangers of communism when compared to some liberal with a university degree in political science.

And sorry if it gets mentioned a lot, but guys like Metzenbaum were already politicians during WWII. He HAD to understand what happened in Europe. Yet he was willing to walk down that same road for some reason. And I'll never truly understand it.

I agree we should appoint an Apache to head up immigration reform.:stop:

NeoNeanderthal

01-14-13, 15:30

While I agree that nobody should advocate gun control, there are some people who "should" know better than others.

I am not as right wing as most of the other members of this board. I dont agree that nobody should advocate gun control ever. As gun owners we feel it is a dirty word/philosophy (rightfully so). But some of the "gun control" polices that are already on the books are totally sensible and i support many of them. (No auto-weapons, ffl background checks every time you buy, felons not being able to be armed)

I mean the real question is where do you draw the line? do you think incarcerated should be allowed to own guns in prison? no one does.

I think the honest answer is that we already have a shitload of gun control in this country. A lot of it is bullshit and needs to go. and very few "new" things could be added with out infringing on peoples basic rights. All the righties are about state rights, but if you really believe in the 2nd amendment then no state should have the right to trump that federal document. States cannot decide murder or slavery are ok there. Its ****ing ludicrous.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 15:30

I agree we should appoint an Apache to head up immigration reform.:stop:

Not sure why we should do that, sounds like PC crap. And that is a long way from saying "you would think (insert group with firsthand recent experience) would know better."

This seems to really bother you for some reason so I guess I'll stop explaining what I mean by things.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 15:32

I am not as right wing as most of the other members of this board. I dont agree that nobody should advocate gun control ever. As gun owners we feel it is a dirty word/philosophy (rightfully so). But some of the "gun control" polices that are already on the books are totally sensible and i support many of them. (No auto-weapons, ffl background checks every time you buy, felons not being able to be armed)

I mean the real question is where do you draw the line? do you think incarcerated should be allowed to own guns in prison? no one does.

I think the honest answer is that we already have a shitload of gun control in this country. A lot of it is bullshit and needs to go. and very few "new" things could be added with out infringing on peoples basic rights. All the righties are about state rights, but if you really believe in the 2nd amendment then no state should have the right to trump that federal document. States cannot decide murder or slavery are ok there. Its ****ing ludicrous.

When I say "gun control" I'm referring to those things that qualify as "infringement."

ETA: And WHY EXACTLY do you think I shouldn't be allowed to own the machine guns I have?!?

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 15:39

Not sure why we should do that, sounds like PC crap. And that is a long way from saying "you would think (insert group with firsthand recent experience) would know better."

This seems to really bother you for some reason so I guess I'll stop explaining what I mean by things.

I was trying to make a joke. I'm sitting here having a cigar and a cocktail. PC? The joke went like this: The Apache know better than anyone about unchecked imm......your right explaining it is a waste of time. I still say it was a good joke.

Kfgk14

01-14-13, 15:54

Bad news for New Yorkers, I feel for them

I frankly don't. Come on, nothing can be worth living in New York, Massachusetts, California, Illinois, etc. over if you really value your freedom. You're just throwing away votes and money funding welfare states and stupid statist legislation.

I am not as right wing as most of the other members of this board. I dont agree that nobody should advocate gun control ever. As gun owners we feel it is a dirty word/philosophy (rightfully so). But some of the "gun control" polices that are already on the books are totally sensible and i support many of them. (No auto-weapons, ffl background checks every time you buy, felons not being able to be armed)

Now why in the Lord's good name do you go saying that? YOU CAN'T GIVE ONE ****ING INCH TO THESE ****ERS!!!!

Automatic weapons, I've met some shady mother****ers in my life who could surely rustle me up some automatic weapons. You think that bullshit works? Don't subordinate yourself to them by giving them the upper hand in firepower! WE THE PEOPLE need to be on an equal footing with the people in our government in terms of access to arms, but we need to have an overwhelming majority over them in terms of sheer numbers.

The government should live in constant fear of the population resisting and ****ing up anyone who takes one goddamn step down the path to tyranny. We need equal, unlimited access to arms as much as we need freedom of speech. I'm sure states can implement their own background check system to great effect, but the federal government doesn't have the constitutional footing to do such a damn thing, our court system lets them because that's how shit works in DC.

Look, the long and short of it is, don't give them anything, because they don't have the ground to stand on constitutionally, morally or pragmatically speaking to back this up. This argument is fear-mongering horse excrement on their end. We need to totally change the dynamic of the discussion and make it abundantly ****ing clear that this isn't about duck hunting or stopping cat burglars, it's about inalienable rights and putting the feds in their ****ing place, as should have been done 79 years ago when this shit got started with the NFA.

SteyrAUG

01-14-13, 16:19

I was trying to make a joke. I'm sitting here having a cigar and a cocktail. PC? The joke went like this: The Apache know better than anyone about unchecked imm......your right explaining it is a waste of time. I still say it was a good joke.

I got the reference, I just thought you were being serious.

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-14-13, 16:38

Noone will for 1 state. In effect, we won't be able to have anything but revolvers, 1911s, minis, and hunting style guns, levers, or Garands

You're assuming these bottom feeders won't pull a Feinstein behind closed doors and declare handguns accepting 8+ round mags as assault weapons. I'm out of this shithole as soon as my LOD clears. Let's see what these dipshits do with regards to LE guns. If Glock, Smith etc can't sell anything holding above 7, there will be zero market for off duty guns and cops will get screwed. That will affect sales of duty guns as well I'm sure. I order ammo online all the time to train on my own time. Guess I'll be driving to PA to grab more as many companies refuse to ship to NY as it is, even to a dept address,for ammo or parts/mags. Good luck to us but I'm not staying to watch the implosion here.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 16:40

Never gonna happen: It would be nice if all gun MFG's and their distributors refused to sell to NY LEO's if something like this passed, akin to what Barrett does with CA.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 16:50

Never gonna happen: It would be nice if all gun MFG's and their distributors refused to sell to NY LEO's if something like this passed, akin to what Barrett does with CA.

No that would not be nice. You would be attempting to punish those who are not responsible and who are risking their lives to protect their community. Now if you want to refuse to sell guns and ammo to the politicians protection details fine.
pat

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 16:50

You're assuming these bottom feeders won't pull a Feinstein behind closed doors and declare handguns accepting 8+ round mags as assault weapons. I'm out of this shithole as soon as my LOD clears. Let's see what these dipshits do with regards to LE guns. If Glock, Smith etc can't sell anything holding above 7, there will be zero market for off duty guns and cops will get screwed. That will affect sales of duty guns as well I'm sure. I order ammo online all the time to train on my own time. Guess I'll be driving to PA to grab more as many companies refuse to ship to NY as it is, even to a dept address,for ammo or parts/mags. Good luck to us but I'm not staying to watch the implosion here.

LE were/are exempt from the NYS. AWB I imagine they still will be.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 16:56

No that would not be nice. You would be attempting to punish those who are not responsible and who are risking their lives to protect their community. Now if you want to refuse to sell guns and ammo to the politicians protection details fine.
pat
Not an attempt to punish at all. Simply an attempt to make sure that politicians know that LEO's are citizens of this country and their state. An attempt at removing protected political classes. An attempt at changing legislation when politicians start realizing that their actions effect EVERYONE. This would be a great way to show the harm that politicians cause others, and great point to use in overturning legislation.

ETA, I am a CO, working my way to Deputy. I think all laws should apply to myself as well any other law abiding individual.

ETA, I really dont want this to be construed as anti-leo, because it is not. This is pro-2A, thats all it is. When the citizens have no guns but the cops do, thats when a police state exists.

Hehuhates

01-14-13, 17:13

I think it's strange that you can't say military without saying law enforcement anymore. Also law enforcement is all of a sudden CO's etc.
CO's aren't law enforcement, They are jailors. I believe and I could be wrong but I think judges and DA's are considered LE also.

That being said I don't care that LEO's are exempt. In NY CO's and Cops are exempt from the ban and we're talking personal weapons. Not purchased on Dept. letterhead. Guns and mags the Dept. or jail has no knowledge of. A cop can possess anything banned under the state AWB just because he is a cop.

buckshot1220

01-14-13, 17:13

I do feel bad for the people of NY State, but hey, you're free to move a little to the left until PA gets worse. My take on the USA is keep moving left, if you've hit California, you've gone too far.

Thank you for bringing some humor to this topic. A little chuckle is always welcome.

Noodles

01-14-13, 17:34

No that would not be nice. You would be attempting to punish those who are not responsible and who are risking their lives to protect their community. Now if you want to refuse to sell guns and ammo to the politicians protection details fine.
pat

Dude.... We get it, you're a cop. Great. Yea, everyone shits on the cop and you're just sticking up for the little guy. Well aware. It's in your name lest anyone perhaps forget that you are definitely a cop, right, you're a cop, moving on.

Now go ahead and make the argument that it would not be appropriate for a civilian owned company to refuse sales to police forces in response to new laws barring those products from civilian hands.

Really. I'd love you hear the explanation that the cop's life depends on the best tools available but the civilian's does not. How you would think it unfair for civilians and cops to face the exact same regulations. Why it wouldn't be absolutely fitting if the politicians are going punish the civilian why the civilian company should not punish the cop by denying sales? I'll agree it doesn't make great business sense, but not everything is about the dollar.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 17:54

Not an attempt to punish at all. Simply an attempt to make sure that politicians know that LEO's are citizens of this country and their state. An attempt at removing protected political classes. An attempt at changing legislation when politicians start realizing that their actions effect EVERYONE. This would be a great way to show the harm that politicians cause others, and great point to use in overturning legislation.

ETA, I am a CO, working my way to Deputy. I think all laws should apply to myself as well any other law abiding individual.

ETA, I really dont want this to be construed as anti-leo, because it is not. This is pro-2A, thats all it is. When the citizens have no guns but the cops do, thats when a police state exists.
The people you would be trying to effect would not care. The cops who are the ones who would suffer have no real way to make the politicians do anything. Its just barking up the wrong tree.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 17:57

Dude.... We get it, you're a cop. Great. Yea, everyone shits on the cop and you're just sticking up for the little guy. Well aware. It's in your name lest anyone perhaps forget that you are definitely a cop, right, you're a cop, moving on.

Now go ahead and make the argument that it would not be appropriate for a civilian owned company to refuse sales to police forces in response to new laws barring those products from civilian hands.

Really. I'd love you hear the explanation that the cop's life depends on the best tools available but the civilian's does not. How you would think it unfair for civilians and cops to face the exact same regulations. Why it wouldn't be absolutely fitting if the politicians are going punish the civilian why the civilian company should not punish the cop by denying sales? I'll agree it doesn't make great business sense, but not everything is about the dollar.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Both should be able to get the guns they need. Cops are on the line having to run towards gunfire rather than away from it so taking away their tools is stupid. We get it your anti cop. Now if the rank and file of NYPD said they supported gun laws or something like that then fine.
Pat

feedramp

01-14-13, 18:31

O'Malley in Maryland was quick to follow up with statements about his planned gun control agenda. He's a likely 2016 Dem candidate so he didn't want to feel left out of the lime light apparently.

Also 7 rounds, eh? So I guess that proves the whole thing about "even if this saves one life it's worth it" is complete BS. After all, they clearly don't care about the first 7+1 lives. Any mag restriction that's not a total ban on mags is a hypocritical meaningless attempt to penalize gun owners. Either they should have the balls to try to ban magazines entirely or they shouldn't do anything related to magazines. Anything in between is baseless.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 18:45

No that would not be nice. You would be attempting to punish those who are not responsible and who are risking their lives to protect their community. Now if you want to refuse to sell guns and ammo to the politicians protection details fine.
pat

It's glorious and so simple. How many people on here would go run to their neighbors house if they were in trouble? Cops aren't the ONLY people who protect their community.

Case in point, and one reason Ive always been so pro gun rights, is when I was younger and my dad was overseas we had a guy start banging on our front door wanting in. We lived rural, and a good response time was 30 minutes to an hour. My mom called a friend of ours who lived nearby, and she came over with a pistol under a blanket over her arm. Turns out the guy banging on our door demanding to be let in was older, and had Alzheimers. But if that lady who came over was limited to ban mags she would have not had the same level of self protection for herself or us...she was doing it because the cops wouldn't get there in time. LE doesn't have a special claim to 'protecting the community' when there are plenty of regular people out there helping neighbors and friends out or just plain ole self defense.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 18:53

It's glorious and so simple. How many people on here would go run to their neighbors house if they were in trouble? Cops aren't the ONLY people who protect their community.

Case in point, and one reason Ive always been so pro gun rights, is when I was younger and my dad was overseas we had a guy start banging on our front door wanting in. We lived rural, and a good response time was 30 minutes to an hour. My mom called a friend of ours who lived nearby, and she came over with a pistol under a blanket over her arm. Turns out the guy banging on our door demanding to be let in was older, and had Alzheimers. But if that lady who came over was limited to ban mags she would have not had the same level of self protection for herself or us...she was doing it because the cops wouldn't get there in time. LE doesn't have a special claim to 'protecting the community' when there are plenty of regular people out there helping neighbors and friends out or just plain ole self defense.
We do have a special claim, its our job to protect the community. Yes there are good citizens who go above and beyond and thank God for them too. My point was two wrongs do not make a right. Also there are less and less good people willing to help their neighbors out. I see it constantly. People call us when they see a car stranded on the highway rather than stop to see if they can help. Those are the good ones. Most don't even call. If someone is getting assaulted people will film it on their cell phone and post it on Facebook before even thinking to call the police.
Pat

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 19:06

We do have a special claim, its our job to protect the community. Yes there are good citizens who go above and beyond and thank God for them too. My point was two wrongs do not make a right. Also there are less and less good people willing to help their neighbors out. I see it constantly. People call us when they see a car stranded on the highway rather than stop to see if they can help. Those are the good ones. Most don't even call. If someone is getting assault people will film it on their cell phone and post it on Facebook before even thinking to call the police.
Pat

Nope. LE and MIl and citizens are all products of the same culture. LE and MIL are not immune from the same things citizens are.

threeheadeddog

01-14-13, 19:09

I think the simple point that was being made is Pro-Freedom not Anti-Cop.

This country was founded on the premis that all men were created equal and that "classes", legally speaking, are the very opposite of freedom.

Any law that effects one man should also effect another, regardless of occupation or position(especially if it is political, or goverment position)

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 19:14

Nope. LE and MIl and citizens are all products of the same culture. LE and MIL are not immune from the same things citizens are.

We screen people with psych evals and polygraphs. So we do have some insulation. But it is getting harder and harder to find qualified applicants even with the recession.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 19:15

HackerF15E

01-14-13, 19:19

We get it your anti cop.

I don't think he's saying that at all.

What I got from it is that LEOs are not 'super citizens' that have some other standard by which they should be treated.

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 19:26

I don't think he's saying that at all.

What I got from it is that LEOs are not 'super citizens' that have some other standard by which they should be treated.

We are not "super citizens" but our daily job is to fight crime, protect and serve, we don't sit in an office and look at a screen and type for 8 hours every day. Just the fact the we do this on a daily basis, we should be able to have resources available, remember that police practice at their own time too, is not necessarily on police time.

30 cal slut

01-14-13, 19:36

Additional details of the proposed NY legislation here:

http://news.yahoo.com/ny-poised-1st-pass-post-massacre-gun-bill-181248937.html;_ylt=AswDEPk2UNJTQoJn5hKs3AwJVux_;_ylu=X3oDMTIxYThwdTE0BG1pdANBVFQgSG9tZSBXaWRnZXRyb24gVGVzdCAxBHBvcwM2BHNlYwNNZWRpYUF0dFdpZGdldHJvbkFzc2VtYmx5;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

NY poised to be 1st to pass post-massacre gun bill

By MICHAEL GORMLEY | Associated Press – 1 hr 10 mins ago

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — New York lawmakers were poised to vote Monday night to enact tougher anti-violence legislation in what would be the nation's first gun control measure following last month's Connecticut school shooting.

"I think when all is said and done, we are going to pass a comprehensive gun bill today," Sen. Jeffrey Klein told reporters. "I'm very excited about it. I am very confident we are going to vote on a comprehensive bill that will be agreed on by the governor, the Senate and Assembly."

People familiar with closed-door negotiations told The Associated Press a tentative deal was struck over the weekend following the push made by Gov. Andrew Cuomo last week in his State of the State speech. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because the proposal had not been discussed among rank and file legislators.

The package hits on several fronts including a much tighter assault weapon ban and restrictions on ammunition and the sale and storage of guns, according to final provisions obtained by The Associated Press. The package would also create a mandatory police registry of assault weapons under a more restrictive definition.

All private sales would be subject to a background check done through a licensed dealer and the bill would require the reporting of mentally ill people who say they intend to use a gun illegally, according to the provisions confirmed by five legislative officials.

The package is part of Gov. Andrew Cuomo's gun control bill and priorities of Democratic and Republican legislators in the Assembly and Senate. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because rank-and-file lawmakers were still signing off on some provisions.

Under current state law, assault weapons are defined by having two features spelled out in law. The proposal would reduce that to one feature and include the popular pistol grip.

Private sales of assault weapons to someone other than an immediate family would be subject to a background check through a dealer. Also Internet sales of assault weapons would be banned, and failing to safely store a weapon could be subject to a misdemeanor charge.

Ammunition magazines would be restricted to seven bullets, from the current 10, and current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. An owner caught at home with eight or more bullets in a magazine could face a misdemeanor charge.

In another provision, a therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat to use a gun illegally would be required to report the incident to a mental health director who would have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient's gun could be taken from him or her.

The legislation also increases sentences for gun crimes.

Legislators wouldn't comment on the tentative deal or the provisions discussed in closed-door conferences.

"It's a tough vote," said Senate Deputy Majority Leader Thomas Libous of Broome County. "This is a very difficult issue depending on where you live in the state. I have had thousands of emails and calls ... and I have to respect their wishes." He said many of constituents worry the bill will conflict with the Second Amendment's right to bear arms while others anguish over shootings like at Newtown, Conn., and Columbine, Colo.

A vote Monday would come exactly one month after a gunman killed 20 children and six educators inside Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, D-Manhattan, said the deal will include ways for schools to use state aid to better guard against shootings.

"I think the message out there is clear after Newtown and to get us down this road as quickly as possible to basically eradicate assault weapons from our streets in New York as quickly as possible is something the people of our state want," Silver said. "It's an important thing to do. It is an emergency."

He said a registry of assault weapons will be created, grandfathering in assault weapons already in private hands. He said crimes using guns will get additional mandatory minimum sentences.

The closed-door meetings prompted about a dozen gun workers to travel more than two hours to Albany to protest the legislation they say could cost 300 to 700 jobs in the economically hard-hit Mohawk Valley.

"I have three small kids myself," said Jamie Rudall, a unionized worker who polishes shotgun receivers. "So I know what it means, the tragedy ... we need to look at ways to prevent that, rather than eliminate the rights of law-abiding citizens."

In the gun debate, one concern for New York is its major gun manufacturer upstate.

Remington Arms Co. makes the Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle that was used in the Connecticut shootings and again on Christmas Eve in Webster, N.Y., when two firefighters were slain responding to a fire. The two-century-old Remington factory in Ilion in central New York employs 1,000 workers in a Republican Senate district.

Assemblyman Marc Butler, a Republican who represents the area, decried the closed-door meetings by Senate Republicans and the Democratic majority of the Assembly as "politics at its worst."

"This is on a fast track, they are going to shove it down our throats," Butler said. "They are about to step all over the Second Amendment in secret meetings."

The bill would be the first test of the new coalition in control of the Senate, which has long been run by Republicans opposed to gun control measures. The chamber is now in the hands of Republicans and five breakaway Democrats led by Klein, an arrangement expected to result in more progressive legislation.

Former Republican Sen. Michael Balboni said that for legislators from the more conservative upstate region of New York, gun control "has the intensity of the gay marriage issue." In 2011, three of four Republicans who crossed the aisle to vote for same-sex marriage ended up losing their jobs because of their votes.

"It was always startling to me the vast cultural divide between New York City metropolitan view on gun control and most of the upstate communities," said Balboni, who represented part of Long Island for 10 years and was a Senate leader. "Emotions run high and there will be tremendous pressure on all upstate legislators, Republicans and Democrats, to keep their base."

___

AP Writer Michael Virtanen contributed to this report from Albany.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 19:54

We screen people with psych evals and polygraphs. So we do have some insulation. But it is getting harder and harder to find qualified applicants even with the recession.
Pat

And? If we're saying a few people per millions are reasons enough to say we all cannot own them then the standard 2 out of thousand don't get them, either.

Don't like it? Find another profession.

Voodoo_Man

01-14-13, 20:25

Just something to point out.

LEO are citizens, not super citizens or exempt from law, in fact LEOs are more restricted than the average citizen.

When a LEO is on duty their dept determines almost everything that LEO has in terms of equipment. Best tools are subjective to what that dept believes the best tools to be.

Do not misunderstand or misrepresent what a LEO has for duty use only and what they have in their personal life is for personal use. Some agencies allow for dept weapons to be personally owned and/or maintained personally, this does not mean they are the LEOs to keep forever.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 20:26

The vast majority of law enforcement agencies, whether local, state, or federal do not give their prospective or current employees polygraph tests.

I like my city a lot, and our LE does really well but I don't think they are doing PT tests here.

Polygraph or not, though, so what? There's a reason they are not admissible in court because they are not reliable. Guilty people slip through because they have stone cold emotions, and innocent people get accused of things because they got nervous at being strapped up to a machine.

The main point here, and I don't want it to get lost, is that everyday (non LE) people face threats, and LE does not have some special job where no one else faces the same threats. Often LE are responders to incidents that have already occurred, and it's everyday people who are the REAL first responders. The guy in OR, the same week as Sandy Hook, effectively stopped a BG with his CCW, and a week later an off duty LEO in San Antonio stopped a BG with a CCW.

I just find it disrespectful when an LEO claims they have some special need to own these items if they are banned from the rest of us when thats simply not the case. The same argument we always make about LE being minutes away when we need help now is exactly why we should be able to own the same type of arms, and if we don't get to buy them by the same logic LE should be less in need of them being 'minutes away'.

Cagemonkey

01-14-13, 20:26

Individual law enforcement officers shouldn't be exempt from any gun laws on the books. They should have access to exactly the same items that regular citizens have access to re: personally owned firearms.

Agencies have and always will be able to purchase whatever they deem necessary for their officers. If the agency wants to issue high capacity magazines, assault weapons, or NFA controlled items that's cool as long as they are agency owned. As long as the law enforcement officers are actively employed by that agency they will have access to the weapons that their agency deems appropriate. If you need an off-duty gun with high capacity magazines your agency can purchase, own, and issue it to you.

Any legal exemption for prohibited weapons to be owned by individual law enforcement officers is unnecessary and a blatant double standard. Without these exemptions you wouldn't have the FOP and other law enforcement associations/unions supporting all of these asinine gun control bills.

And that comes from someone with 13 years of combined active/reserve law enforcement experience on the local, state, and federal levels.Well said. I totally agree. I've heard of quite a few LEO's who at the personal level don't legally qualify to own firearms here in the N. East.

JoshNC

01-14-13, 20:41

Yep, I don't think I prefer any liberal socialists based upon religion. As far as being jewish, we could use another guy like Aaron Zelman.

That said, it mystifies me EVERYTIME when somebody jewish advocates gun control and statism. You'd think if anyone would know better it would be people who learned a really hard lesson only a few generations ago.

Agreed. I am Jewish and it makes me especially irate to hear of other Jews who are willing to beat their firearms into plowshares. From pogroms throughout Russia and Europe to the Third Reich, it is easy to see the danger in an unarmed populace. Why do they not understand the danger of the government having the only martial arms is beyond my understanding. Very frustrating.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 20:50

Other point is not all LEO are created equal. Would I trust a NE leo to not arrest me on state charges under FOPA protections for traveling through NY? No. Those guys are enforcing a state ban while walking around with NFA guns with full capacity mags. Hypocricy?

Do I want to see my local TX LEO's limited to a ban of 10rds? No....but I don't think most of them have the same attitude a NYC cop would have in regards to people's rights.

I am absolutely not anti-LEO but I would extremely pissed off if my state said their lives are more valuable...so they get the proper self defensive tools...but the local LE enforced a ban on me at the same time and didn't turn a blind eye to any violations they catch. If they do prosecute people...then time for them to play by the same rules.

At some point LE need to decide what to do in this world, and if collecting a paycheck is worth violating people's rights then I have zero sympathy for them playing by the same rules. No one is forced to be an LEO. They still collect a paycheck, and while I can understand the desire to serve your community that is who you should be serving not some gun banner up at the capitol.

Suwannee Tim

01-14-13, 21:01

Somebody will make magazines, probably modify magazines, probably a hundred dollars a pop. Is depression a mental illness? Paranoia? Anxiety? PTSD? An eating disorder? Alcohol abuse?

uwe1

01-14-13, 21:03

New York......first banning high capacity soft drink cups, now banning high capacity magazines.

What will they think of next.....:suicide:

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:07

And? If we're saying a few people per millions are reasons enough to say we all cannot own them then the standard 2 out of thousand don't get them, either.

Don't like it? Find another profession.

I don't like what your saying and no I don't have to find another profession. I am not anti gun and I am not the enemy. If you don't like the law work to change it. Also you saying your not anti leo. Sorry but as a LEO that seems very false based on your posts. In fact you seem to be anti any government employee period. We do more than collect a pay check we risk our lives, get spit on, assualted all for people in our community like you.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:11

Do I want to see my local TX LEO's limited to a ban of 10rds? No....but I don't think most of them have the same attitude a NYC cop would have in regards to people's rights.

l.
How many New York cops have you met or are you just talking our your rear again? By your logic if the US passes a high cap mag ban we should also limit our soldiers to 10 round mags after all we don't want them to have special treatment. Totally stupidity!
Pat

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 21:17

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:21

Wow! Quite the accusation. The government was created to protect our rights. If an LEO won't or can't do that then too bad. You don't deserve the title. Let someone else who understands their oath and duty do the job.

Part of this is understanding you aren't a special cookie and that 'service' doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you.

Any you're not quite right. I support government employees in the application of the Constitution as written and intended and if they can't do that then they should be fired. I will vote to that as best as I can.

I understand my oath just fine thank you and I would be willing to bet I have done a world more to support the second amendment and get people shooting than you could ever dream about. How many matches have you hosted, how many classes have you taught to your community on firearms use and safety. Anway welcome to the ignore list.
Pat

RyanB

01-14-13, 21:26

We do have a special claim, its our job to protect the community.
Pat

If you need restricted equipment, get it from your employer. I have zero sympathy otherwise.

Of course, it shouldn't be restricted...

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:29

If you need restricted equipment, get it from your employer. I have zero sympathy otherwise.

Of course, it shouldn't be restricted...

I don't want your sympathy. And yes if this happened restricted items would have to be purchased for work use on letter head just like the last ban. All LEO's however do deserve more respect than we are getting from some tin foil types on here for putting it on the line.
Pat

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 21:29

How many New York cops have you met or are you just talking our your rear again? By your logic if the US passes a high cap mag ban we should also limit our soldiers to 10 round mags after all we don't want them to have special treatment. Totally stupidity!
Pat

Actually, I agree, and our founding fathers would as well. If the citizens can not have standard capacity magazine for their arms, then the soldiers should not either.

The founding fathers did not think so highly of a well armed standing army....

t is certainly of the last Consequence to a free Country that the Militia, which is its natural Strength, should be kept upon the most advantageous Footing. A standing Army, however necessary it may be at some times, is always dangerous to the Liberties of the People. The Militia is composd of free Citizens.

Soldiers are apt to consider themselves as a Body distinct from the rest of the Citizens. They have their Arms always in their hands. Their Rules and their Discipline is severe. They soon become attachd to their officers and disposd to yield implicit Obedience to their Commands. Such a Power should be watchd with a jealous Eye.

I have a good Opinion of the principal officers of our Army. I esteem them as Patriots as well as Soldiers. But if this War continues, as it may for years yet to come, we know not who may succeed them. Men who have been long subject to military Laws and inured to military Customs and Habits, may lose the Spirit and Feeling of Citizens.

And even Citizens, having been used to admire the Heroism which the Commanders of their own Army have displayd, and to look up to them as their Saviors may be prevaild upon to surrender to them those Rights for the protection of which against Invaders they had employd and paid them.

We have seen too much of this Disposition among some of our Countrymen. The Militia is composd of free Citizens. There is therefore no Danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them.

Samuel Adams, to James Warren, January 7 1776

RyanB

01-14-13, 21:29

How many New York cops have you met or are you just talking our your rear again? By your logic if the US passes a high cap mag ban we should also limit our soldiers to 10 round mags after all we don't want them to have special treatment. Totally stupidity!
Pat

Soldiers should not be treated any differently than civilians when off duty or buying things for their personal use.

A critical component of the Rule of Law is equality under the law.

RyanB

01-14-13, 21:30

I don't want your sympathy. And yes if this happened restricted items would have to be purchased for work use on letter head just like the last ban. All LEO's however do deserve your respect for putting it on the line.
Pat

I think it should have to be purchased with an Agency check, card or PO.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 21:33

You're an ass who has no clue and I understand my oath just fine thank you and I would be willing to bet I have done a world more to support the second amendment and get people shooting than you could ever dream about. How many matches have you hosted, how many classes have you taught to your community on firearms use and safety. You're nothing more than a far far right wing tin foil hat conspiracy theorist.
Pat

Way to result to personal attacks.

Guess what? None of that matters if you continue defending the 'state' being immune from gun laws if the people you are hosting gun matches and taking shooting don't have the same tools you do. That's what YOU don't get. I certainly don't want to see any good LEO's have their tools taken away but I have just as much right as they do. I don't believe anyone's right to life is more important than anothers (everyday people) and you seem to think its perfectly ok for LE to have access to this stuff if we don't because of your job you choose to do.

FWIW I have taken numerous people shooting, including LE, and helped all manner of people. I had an Austin PD Officer who I helped out with stuff when we were neighbors, when I was a teenager I was posting NRA applications on our community mail boxes, helped other neighbors build AR's from stuff they bought, and I joined the Army to help our country when help was needed then was deployed twice. I'm not going to attack you over it, and like I said you aren't a special cookie. It's sad you want to devolve what was a cordial conversation into dick measuring contests which I don't really care to participate in.

Do you want to discuss the issues or continue on with immature BS?

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:34

I think it should have to be purchased with an Agency check, card or PO.

I could care less and in some ways that would be better as I would not have to pay for them. The items purchases on letter head during the last ban that were restricted could not be kept by the officer when he retired or quit. So if that ban had not ended when I retired I would have had to sell all my LEO/Military marked stuff to another officer or donate it to the department.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:37

Soldiers should not be treated any differently than civilians when off duty or buying things for their personal use.

A critical component of the Rule of Law is equality under the law.
The main difference is LEO's are never off duty. I have had people come to my house before when they needed help because they know I am a cop. I have had to arrest people when I have been off duty.

Pat

Mauser KAR98K

01-14-13, 21:38

Annnyyywwaaayyysss...now that Alaskanpopo looks like he might obey a confiscation order...

If Com-over gets his ban, and from what it is looking the same way Obamacare was past, out of public eyes, any and all firearms owners in New York State need to start suing, and recalling his ass. This "law" should begin the case with weather draconian laws that in effect ban weapons is unconstitutional. If you are banning a certain piece that makes the physical or functional make-up of a firearm, that should be unconstitutional.

Would the percussion cap be banned because it made a firearm more quicker to reload and kill faster?

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:40

Way to result to personal attacks.

Guess what? None of that matters if you continue defending the 'state' being immune from gun laws if the people you are hosting gun matches and taking shooting don't have the same tools you do. That's what YOU don't get. I certainly don't want to see any good LEO's have their tools taken away but I have just as much right as they do. I don't believe anyone's right to life is more important than anothers (everyday people) and you seem to think its perfectly ok for LE to have access to this stuff if we don't because of your job you choose to do.

FWIW I have taken numerous people shooting, including LE, and helped all manner of people. I had an Austin PD Officer who I helped out with stuff when we were neighbors, when I was a teenager I was posting NRA applications on our community mail boxes, helped other neighbors build AR's from stuff they bought, and I joined the Army to help our country when help was needed then was deployed twice. I'm not going to attack you over it, and like I said you aren't a special cookie. It's sad you want to devolve what was a cordial conversation into dick measuring contests which I don't really care to participate in.

Do you want to discuss the issues or continue on with immature BS?
Ok here is the deal. You said I don't deserve the title which is a huge insult. I am all for getting back on track. But rather you realize it or not you come across as very anti leo or anything government period. I am surprised you served as a soldier with as much as you seem to hate the government. (thanks for your service by the way)

Also I am not defending any law banning citizens from having any weapons. I just said its not a good idea to take weapons away from the police who also serve to protect their community much like you did for your country as a soldier.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:42

Annnyyywwaaayyysss...now that Alaskanpopo looks like he might obey a confiscation order...

I

**** YOU!

Yes you can quote me on that.

Have you bothered to read the posts where I said I would not. There have been over 20 of them or so now. It looks to me like you might be someone who would turn in your neighbors as gun owners if such a confiscation order every happened. Yea I just pulled that our of my ass like you did your comment about me.

KalashniKEV

01-14-13, 21:43

No that would not be nice. You would be attempting to punish those who are not responsible and who are risking their lives to protect their community. Now if you want to refuse to sell guns and ammo to the politicians protection details fine.
pat

They are responsible and need to be taught the error of their ways... otherwise they don't learn. The current set of villains didn't elect themselves.

Also if Cuomo calls for the universal disarmament (which is not kooky, because he already said it's a potential course of action) they will be the ones called on to do harm to the community. Whether or not they take that path is up to the individual.

What really *should* happen is that the people should demand Cuomo's immediate departure... or he should be given 20 minutes to pack a bag and hit the road.

When the citizens have no guns but the cops do, thats when a police state exists.

That's pretty much the way it already is where I'm from in NY.

I have LEOs and retired LEOs in my family that are basically like a samurai class- enjoying rights that the normal citizens do not have, like carrying a gun everywhere.

PA PATRIOT

01-14-13, 21:44

I don't like what your saying and no I don't have to find another profession. I am not anti gun and I am not the enemy. If you don't like the law work to change it. Also you saying your not anti leo. Sorry but as a LEO that seems very false based on your posts. In fact you seem to be anti any government employee period. We do more than collect a pay check we risk our lives, get spit on, assualted all for people in our community like you.
Pat

Pat why bother, the cynics are only responding to your posts to push buttons.

It kind of reminds me of those kiddie fights when we were like four years old yelling "If I cant have it then no body can" or "Mom If I cant have it either can Johny"

Some here want on duty police on the same footing weapons wise as the non-LEO because their feelings may get hurt on a future AWB or so they can repel the LEO invader should the need arise.

All I can say to those wishing to restrict on-duty L/E weaponry is to keep dreaming as it will never happen. Times are not getting any better and I fully support every possible edge for L/E's to defend them selfs.

Now for off duty ownership police are no better then anyone else but I would support a single exception of a training gun which duplicates the officers on duty long gun "IF" the duty long gun is restricted from being used off duty to help that officer maintain their skills and proficiency.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 21:46

What amendment states that LEO's should be better armed than the citizenry?

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:47

They are responsible and need to be taught the error of their ways... otherwise they don't learn. The current set of villains didn't elect themselves.

Also if Cuomo calls for the universal disarmament (which is not kooky, because he already said it's a potential course of action) they will be the ones called on to do harm to the community. Whether or not they take that path is up to the individual.

What really *should* happen is that the people should demand Cuomo's immediate departure... or he should be given 20 minutes to pack a bag and hit the road.

That's pretty much the way it already is where I'm from in NY.

I have LEOs and retired LEOs in my family that are basically like a samurai class- enjoying rights that the normal citizens do not have, like carrying a gun everywhere.
So are you saying that LEO's are the ones who voted in these villains. Think about what you said. Do you realize how many leo's there are vs the total number of registered voters then take the fact most LEO's vote republican and generally pro gun. Your way out there.
Pat

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 21:49

What amendment states that LEO's should be better armed than the citizenry?

Did you hear anything I said about not supporting any bans?
Nevermind Phila PD is right. Lots of anti leo trolls here who are simply taking advantage of this situation. Unsubscribing from this thread the tin foil factor is too much.
Pat

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-14-13, 21:56

To call me anti-LEO or anti-military is very silly, but thats fine. I'll bow out of this one. I am pro liberty, for all men and women. I abhor the thought of a police state, as do most LEO's, including yourseld AKPopo. I believe that the standard infantryman, patrolman, and citizen should be armed along the same lines, and if the citizen is to be restricted heavily, then so should the others. I wore the uniform of our United States Marine Corps, and now I wear the same uniform as my elected Sheriff, one that I am proud to wear. Someday, I hope to wear the same badge as he does. I took an oath many years ago, one that dies when I do, and I am passionate about it.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/01/if-they-come-for-your-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/#ixzz2I0jdVzpz

KalashniKEV

01-14-13, 21:58

So are you saying that LEO's are the ones who voted in these villains. Think about what you said. Do you realize how many leo's there are vs the total number of registered voters then take the fact most LEO's vote republican and generally pro gun. Your way out there.
Pat

And you said the communities would suffer without well armed, dutiful LEOs to monitor them. I say- let them feel the effects of the policies enacted by the villains they voted in.

RyanB

01-14-13, 21:59

The main difference is LEO's are never off duty. I have had people come to my house before when they needed help because they know I am a cop. I have had to arrest people when I have been off duty.

Pat

I respect that. Which is why your employer should let you take your work equipment home with you.

I would support a law requiring your employer to do that.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 22:01

Did you read the sentence before the 'you' part? I was NOT referring to you personally. It's a continuation of a thought which was general in nature directed at all LE that if they can't uphold their oath then they don't deserve the title. Geez don't take everything so personal. I can't imagine anyone would not agree with that statement. I thought most people, besides maybe one's who went to school in a socialist state, learned that the government is there to protect our rights.

Surprised I was a soldier? Why? You keep saying I am anti-government, and I am not. I am against government which oversteps it's authority, and I don't think just because someone is an LEO, and signs onto that, dissolves them any culpability in denying people their right's. Just like if I was still in the Army, and was ordered to deny people their right's I would refuse it, and deal with the consequences. When I was in Baghdad, and we were initially told they could have one AK per household my initital reaction wasn't "WTF...why can they have that!?", but, "WTF...why can't we have that!?"

Bottom line is the people are the 4th check and balance, and if a local LE department enforces a ban on magazines I will do what I can to make sure they live under the same rules. I think you are WAY too defensive by calling people names just because they want some accountability and fairness. It has nothing to do with people as individual LEO's, and entirely against the state. If you don't want to be associated with what the state is doing then I am sure you are adult enough to figure out how not to associate yourself with them.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 22:03

Guys like everyone else the current situation has caused me stress too and you all just saw that. I apologize for losing my temper. I do everyone would work together rather than have this in fighting. We all want the same thing lets put our energy to some productive efforts. Those in New York I feel for you get those letters out and join the NRA and GOA.
Pat

buckshot1220

01-14-13, 22:19

Let's get back on track here.

Anyone in NY going to the Guns Across America protest @ the Capital Building in Albany on Sat the 19th?

Myself and another member of the forum are planning on going. It'd be great if we could all meet up and have a little M4C group within the hopefully large turnout.

I just hope to God people stay civil and refrain from slurs, cursing, emotional reactions...

Mac5.56

01-14-13, 22:24

SMETNA

01-14-13, 22:28

Those in New York I feel for you get those letters out and join the NRA and GOA.
Pat

I appreciate the sentiment, but NYC has such a stranglehold on the rest of the state, that realistically, there are only two options:

• vote with our feet and move away

• strengthen the movement to split NYS into two states. We can't get representation in Albany, so a divorce is in order.

Anyone in NY going to the Guns Across America protest @ the Capital Building in Albany on Sat the 19th?

Sorry, I am absolutely penniless. I couldn't afford the gasoline to get there and back, let alone the day off work. Christmas really broke my balls this year. (Engagement ring)

30 cal slut

01-14-13, 22:32

this bill just passed.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 22:32

I appreciate the sentiment, but NYC has such a stranglehold on the rest of the state, that realistically, there are only two options:

• vote with our feet and move away

• strengthen the movement to split NYS into two states. We can't get representation in Albany, so a divorce is in order.

Your right. New York is not the only place like that. Washington was controlled by King county when I was there. The rest of the state was pretty pro gun and conservative but it was not enough to override the urban areas. As a joke I once said maybe we should build a wall around the cities and let them have their own stupid rules inside those walls and the rest of us can have our freedom on the outside.
pat

SMETNA

01-14-13, 22:40

this bill just passed.

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013

**** me. There are parts of this that will hopefully get smacked down

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 22:45

Jesus Christ, this people don't know the advantage they have given to the criminals right now. They are about to celebrate this the same way they did with the journal news gun permit map.

What a disgrace.

SMETNA

01-14-13, 22:47

I want to go full Yeager right now, but I'll hold my tongue

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 22:48

NYS people...move...this bill that passed looks like it has no grandfathering and you could become a criminal by tomorrow. Passed in the middle of the night. :(

TXBob

01-14-13, 22:53

We need to apply some pressure of our own.

(1) We need to get every GunManufactuer in NY, OUT of NY
Remington, Kimber (save your comments), etc..
(2)Every manufacturer should boycott NY sales. No sales PERIOD.
They don't want guns? Don't give em any. That includes LEO/MIL.
No ammo. No mags. No repairs.

I realize especially #2 will not be popular and put lives at risk, but the legislature has already done that.

We need to hit them back hard. The Senators sold out their constituents and its time for hardball.

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 22:55

NYS people...move...this bill that passed looks like it has no grandfathering and you could become a criminal by tomorrow. Passed in the middle of the night. :(

99% of every person carrying a gun and/or rifle including retired officers are about to be felons in 5 mins.

WOW :suicide:

montanadave

01-14-13, 23:04

While I am saddened for New York gun owners, I hope they raise such a ruckus over these draconian gun control laws that it scares the living shit out of Congress and convinces them that, should they attempt anything even remotely similar to what just passed in New York, the ****ing lid will blow off.

m1a_scoutguy

01-14-13, 23:09

Well were are ****ed NOW,,watching the Local News,,the Bill passed initially,,,so we are on the way down the shittier !!!! Maybe we can be saved,,but it will be a tough road for sure !! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

a0cake

01-14-13, 23:12

I didn't fight in two wars for this country to come home and be treated like a criminal for someone else's atrocity. I will have fought in three wars before I abide by this law.

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 23:12

Confusing, but heres what it looks like for a 'we have to pass it to find out whats in it bill':

1. No pre 94 mags over 10rds (no grandfathering)

2. No new mags over 7 rounds

3. Pre 2013 10rd mags cannot be loaded to more than 7 rds :rolleyes:, cannot be transferred.

ETA: Lawyer sitestaff on AR15 posted this:

Ban on all magazines over 7 rounds, no more new "assault weapons", all present assault weapons have to be registered and can only be at your home or a "registered range" (no such thing), all ammo has to be bought in person with a background check, all pistol permits have to be renewed.

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld&bn=A02388&term=2013&Summary=Y&Text=Y

Mauser KAR98K

01-14-13, 23:15

My fellow anti-victims in New York, for my sincere love for you and your families, and for your safety...please move out. You are being tarnished and ridiculed just as the Jews of Germany, France and Eastern Europe after the First World War.

Get out while you still can protect yourself.

Gramps

01-14-13, 23:16

HMMM. Does this mean that the "Tin Foil Hat's" may, just may, have been/be write after all? Or, is there no reason to worry about what just happened. Hmmmmmm…...

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 23:18

HMMM. Does this mean that the "Tin Foil Hat's" may, just may, have been/be write after all? Or, is there no reason to worry about what just happened. Hmmmmmm…...

This is New York not the whole USA. Also I think they will have a good chance to challenge this in the court.
Pat

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 23:19

Looks like some of the penalties are up to Class B Felony 25 years max sentence for violations:

* ban on pre 1994 mags with cap of 11 or more
* ban on mags over 7 rounds
* background checks on all ammo purchases
* mental health reporting which is to be checked against the (new??) gun registry database
* 1 feature test for AW. Bushmaster AR banned by name
* 10 round mags to be grandfathered in but may only be loaded with 7 rounds (read elsewhere this will be a misdemeanor)
* all sales of ammo from registered ammo dealers to be reported to local police
* background check on all ammo purcahses
* ban of direct internet ammo purchases
* ammo purchases to go through FFL
* five year renewable registration for AW and handguns

Ed L.

01-14-13, 23:21

I feel terrible for gunowners in NY State and anyone in NY state who might be interested in buying a firearm.

(2)Every manufacturer should boycott NY sales. No sales PERIOD.
They don't want guns? Don't give em any. That includes LEO/MIL.
No ammo. No mags. No repairs.

I realize especially #2 will not be popular and put lives at risk, but the legislature has already done that.

We need to hit them back hard. The Senators sold out their constituents and its time for hardball.

I don't agree with #2.

There is no reason to punish NY gunowners more than they have already been. Not everyone can blink like a genie, find a new job out of state, and move. It takes time and money.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 23:23

I wonder if the NRA is already working on a brief for the court.
Pat

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 23:26

I wonder if the NRA is already working on a brief for the court.
Pat

And hope it goes to SCOTUS before Obama gets another nomination.

Gramps

01-14-13, 23:28

This is New York not the whole USA. Also I think they will have a good chance to challenge this in the court.
Pat

So what happens in NY, stay's in NY? That would be nice.

Alaskapopo

01-14-13, 23:34

So what happens in NY, stay's in NY? That would be nice.

With respect you do realize that NY is one of the most anti gun states in the country. They are not Representative of the country as a whole.

Ring

01-14-13, 23:34

* ban on pre 1994 mags with cap of 11 or more
* ban on mags over 7 rounds
* background checks on all ammo purchases
* mental health reporting which is to be checked against the (new??) gun registry database
* 1 feature test for AW. Bushmaster AR banned by name
* 10 round mags to be grandfathered in but may only be loaded with 7 rounds (read elsewhere this will be a misdemeanor)
* all sales of ammo from registered ammo dealers to be reported to local police
* background check on all ammo purcahses
* ban of direct internet ammo purchases
* ammo purchases to go through FFL
* five year renewable registration for AW and handguns

newyork

01-14-13, 23:35

Can someone tell me when all this goes into effect?

SMETNA

01-14-13, 23:38

I didn't fight in two wars for this country to come home and be treated like a criminal for someone else's atrocity. I will have fought in three wars before I abide by this law.

Welcome back

JBecker 72

01-14-13, 23:39

Wow, I'm sickened at what this country is becoming. The unconstitutional laws just keep on coming, and the public is asking for it.

What the ****?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

SMETNA

01-14-13, 23:45

Is this a declaration of war?

• 2A violated
• 4A violated (registration is a violation of privacy)
• 5A violation ("No person shall . . . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"
• 9A violation (misc. rights violations, such as ammo sales, retroactive laws)

Belmont31R

01-14-13, 23:46

I wonder if the NRA is already working on a brief for the court.
Pat

Just a point on this, besides the SCOTUS nomination thing, is that CA has had a similar law on the books for a long time and I don't think a single aspect of it has been struck down.

I hate to say it....but what makes anyone think this will be any different? I have been an NRA member, and have donated but people shouldn't get their hopes up the NRA is going to come out and get it struck down. It wasn't the NRA that funded Heller, either, it was CATO and Alan Gura. Alan Gura was also the lead attorney in McDonald. I cannot think of a single high profile court decision the NRA has won on behalf of gun owners all by themselves.

jaxman7

01-14-13, 23:47

The name Bushmaster.....is banned?!?! Even with their demented rationale how in the world is BANNING A FREAKING NAME going to 'save' anyone?

SMETNA and the rest of the NY M4C contingent you have my prayers guys. Going to send letters out again to my reps.

I am.....just....sad. Honestly sad.

This country we love. Where is it?

-Jax

Not much of a welcome with all the current events but good to see you back a0cake.

Ring

01-14-13, 23:48

"(VIII) A SEMIAUTOMATIC VERSION OF AN AUTOMATIC RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR
FIREARM;"
And Glocks, Berettas, HK's, et al. All pistols.

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 23:49

Can someone tell me when all this goes into effect?

As far as I saw the video from the senate. 01/15/13 0000 hrs but missed the part of what they are doing at 9 am on the 15th

newyork

01-14-13, 23:50

mikelowrey

01-14-13, 23:52

The name Bushmaster.....is banned?!?! Even with their demented rationale how in the world is BANNING A FREAKING NAME going to 'save' anyone?

Not new for them, in the PL states that any rifle marked as "Colt AR-15" is illegal, so that's why Colt changed the markings to M4 carbine, sporters etc...

newyork

01-14-13, 23:53

As far as I saw the video from the senate. 01/15/13 0000 hrs but missed the part of what they are doing at 9 am on the 15th

So now? Really? Can the rifles we have now be registered or do they have to be compliant (lose brake) first? How can a bill be in effect immediately when we don't even know what's in it? This is ****ing outrage. Tyranny!

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 00:00

So now? Really? Can the rifles we have now be registered or do they have to be compliant (lose brake) first? How can a bill be in effect immediately when we don't even know what's in it? This is ****ing outrage. Tyranny!

Same thing I said, hopefully at 9 am they make it clear whats going to happen, time frame that will be given, etc...

You are not alone in this shit hole, 99% of every person with a gun and/or rifle with permit is "technically" a felon, including retired LEO's

Mauser KAR98K

01-15-13, 00:00

So now? Really? Can the rifles we have now be registered or do they have to be compliant (lose brake) first? How can a bill be in effect immediately when we don't even know what's in it? This is ****ing outrage. Tyranny!

If I were living there right now...I would not register. If they can go this far, how far can they go?

Just me, though.

jaxman7

01-15-13, 00:01

The criminals just become a little more empowered in NYC.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” ― Thomas Jefferson

-Jax

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 00:06

This is what the republican Dean Skelos said with this law:

"This is going to go after those who are bringing illegal guns into the state, who are slaughtering people in New York City," Skelos said. "This is going to put people in jail and keep people in jail who shouldn't be out on the street in the first place."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! those are CRIMINALS who dont follow the LAW.

a0cake

01-15-13, 00:08

SMETNA

01-15-13, 00:11

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 00:14

This is what the republican Dean Skelos said with this law:

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! those are CRIMINALS who dont follow the LAW.

And? A republican up there is slightly to the right of Marx.

Then people chided me and claimed I was voting for Obama for refusing to vote for anti-gun Romney!!! :rolleyes:

I don't know what to tell people but Ill say it again...just because a person has an (R) behind their name doesn't mean they care about rights, guns, liberty or anything else a conservative believes in. It means they MIGHT be a little bit less than left the full blown communists who have a (D).

“It is well-balanced, it protects the Second Amendment,” said Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos of Long Island. “And there is no confiscation of weapons, which was at one time being considered.

http://nation.time.com/2013/01/14/n-y-state-lawmakers-poised-to-be-1st-to-pass-post-massacre-gun-bill/

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 00:15

DON'T REGISTER ANYTHING

We have a natural right to privacy, and a natural right keep and bear arms that are military in nature, for use in militia, for defense of our liberty.

DON'T MOVE TO THE BACK OF THE BUS

This is quite a bit worse than being told to go to the back of the bus...but I get what you're saying. ;)

xjustintimex

01-15-13, 00:16

in the united states vs miller case

The U.S Government appealed the decision and on March 30, 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court heard the case. Attorneys for the United States argued four points:

The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.

I would say this goes against the last supreme court ruling that I could find on the issue.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-15-13, 00:17

While Colorado may not be a red state any longer, we at least have freedom for the time being. Gentlemen, I mean this when I say it:

If you need to leave NY, if you need to store guns out of state, if you need to tactically retreat to the midwest, I will house you and help you get on your feet. I am serious, PM me if you need out of that progressive-liberal-****ing shit hole.

Mac5.56

01-15-13, 00:17

Well shit!!!

SMETNA

01-15-13, 00:23

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 00:26

in the united states vs miller case

I would say this goes against the last supreme court ruling that I could find on the issue.

The only thing that matters, if a case gets to SCOTUS, is the makeup of the court. If Obama gets a 5th communist in there they will write whatever they have to. Miller has been in effect since 1939, and read their dissents in Heller, and even after Heller in McDonald. They will do whatever mental gymnastics they need to in order to write the 2nd out of the Constitution from the bench.

SteyrAUG

01-15-13, 00:30

Just out of curiosity is there any legal precedent out there for the state confiscation of items that were purchased prior to being made illegal?

This law literally makes my two pistols, and both my AK and AR completely impossibly to shoot. I'm ****ing blown away guys, I am literally blown away.

I honestly think this is one of the most far reaching attacks against one of our amendments to date.

CA did it.

You had to register them and many didn't.

Then they created an amnesty for those who didn't and a bunch of people decided it was safe now.

They then decided the amnesty wasn't "legal" and all the weapons registered during the amnesty were confiscated without compensation.

SMETNA

01-15-13, 01:03

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_New_York

This needs to be our response moving forward.

I'm going to do a little research, and see if an official movement already exists. Stand by.

SMETNA

01-15-13, 01:17

I support the separation of the following counties from New York State:

Orange
Putnam
Rockland
Westchester
Nassau
Suffolk
Richmond
Bronx
Kings
Queens
and NYC

They can call their new state whatever they please.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/img/counties/stout36.gif

thmpr

01-15-13, 01:18

rojocorsa

01-15-13, 01:27

This make the CA AWB look like comedy, goddamn.

Irish

01-15-13, 01:37

If the courts and the Constitution matter than why have the unconstitutional gun laws that have been in place for years prior to today been allowed to exist? I'm not trying to burst anybody's bubble but starting to actually throw punches in the 9th round after you've had the ever living shit kicked out of you is usually a bit too late.

It's late and I'm tired so I may be off base with that...

Anyhow, we go to NY twice a year, Cazenovia, to visit wife's family but I'll never set foot in that state again. It was bad but this is intolerable.

Irish

01-15-13, 01:40

Koshinn

01-15-13, 02:02

Video of the session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzic0awEBfY&sns=em

Senator Ball at 45:20 kills it! And the lady following him is pro-2nd as well. I believe those are the only 2 who spoke out against this.

At 35:25, Sen Gibson says that they've only had the text of the bill for 2 hours as of his explaining his vote. Since it took them THIRTY MINUTES to congratulate the civil air patrol, they've only had a little more than an hour to read the text of the bill and they had no time to debate it. According to one of the Senators, they had about 20 min total to read it before voting.

That's a ****ing travesty of democracy.

Irish

01-15-13, 02:12

That's a ****ing travesty of democracy.

Like the Hughes Amendment?! http://youtu.be/a6Mx2UcSEvQ

What a ****ing joke that was!

Koshinn

01-15-13, 02:14

"It is comprehensive. It is sound," Cuomo told reporters late Monday. "It addresses the multifaceted problem that we're dealing with. It protects, I believe, hunters and sportsmen, et cetera, and legitimate gun owners."

Sportsmen? What is a sportsman?

What is a "legitimate gun owner"? Cause it sounds like thousands of legitimate gun owners are suddenly going to become felons in 7 hours.

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 02:16

At 35:25, Sen Gibson says that they've only had the text of the bill for 2 hours as of his explaining his vote. Since it took them THIRTY MINUTES to congratulate the civil air patrol, they've only had a little more than an hour to read the text of the bill and they had no time to debate it. According to one of the Senators, they had about 20 min total to read it before voting.

That's a ****ing travesty of democracy.

Obama signed 20 bills into law yesterday. Do you think he read them all?

xjustintimex

01-15-13, 02:18

Obama signed 20 bills into law yesterday. Do you think he read them all?

hmm, pretty scary

Koshinn

01-15-13, 02:22

Obama signed 20 bills into law yesterday. Do you think he read them all?

Actually, yes, I do. The President has the power to veto a bill, he won't give up that opportunity if need be. Although Obama does have the lowest veto count of any President since 1881 at a total of 2 vetoes.

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 02:24

Koshinn

01-15-13, 02:32

Defining the narrative that AR's are not a legitimate firearm protected under the 2nd....

I just realized the phrase "legitimate gun owner" could mean:
"legitimate gun" owner
or
legitimate "gun owner"

I always read it as the later, but you read it as the former which caused me pause.

I'm kind of surprised this passed the NY State Senate when Republicans have the majority.

SMETNA

01-15-13, 04:28

I'm kind of surprised this passed the NY State Senate when Republicans have the majority.

**** Republicans

5pins

01-15-13, 05:43

We screen people with psych evals and polygraphs.

How well is that working? There is a NYC cop going to trial soon for trying to kidnap, cook, and eat women.

Iraqgunz

01-15-13, 05:50

I wonder if they are going to set up checkpoints in NY? How do you stop someone from buying ammo in neighboring states? Does this now stop reloaders? Its sad this happened but not unexpected. Stand by because I predict there will be more states to follow; Connecticut and I predict California will now follow suit.

Canonshooter

01-15-13, 06:07

With respect you do realize that NY is one of the most anti gun states in the country. They are not Representative of the country as a whole.

Agreed, and very happy I left that state 5 years ago. That said, I fear the momentum the anti-gun/anti-gun owner mentality may gain from this....

HackerF15E

01-15-13, 06:20

I'm kind of surprised this passed the NY State Senate when Republicans have the majority.

Yet again, should be a wakeup call to EVERYONE that the RKBA is not a left/right, Republican/Democrat, or liberal/conservative issue.

There are friends on every part of the political spectrum and enemies on every part.

Ring

01-15-13, 06:25

New Yorkers..You will have one year to sell your mags or be felons...

a1fabweld

01-15-13, 07:00

So does this mean NY took the title away from CA for having the most ****ed up gun laws?

Ring

01-15-13, 07:07

So does this mean NY took the title away from CA for having the most ****ed up gun laws?

yup..........

SMETNA

01-15-13, 07:11

New Yorkers..You will have one year to sell your mags or be felons...

Already smashed them to bits. Nothing to see here

M4arc

01-15-13, 07:16

ssracer

01-15-13, 07:21

Video of the session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzic0awEBfY&sns=em

Senator Ball at 45:20 kills it! And the lady following him is pro-2nd as well. I believe those are the only 2 who spoke out against this.

It flat out makes me sick watching that. I wonder how many there are simply uneducated or delusional when it comes to firearms and how many are truly just set with the all out intent to eliminate guns altogether because of their distain for the people

tb-av

01-15-13, 07:23

Hehuhates

01-15-13, 07:26

So be it....OWTLAW!!!! Anybody have a 8in. 300
Blackout barrel for sale?

30 cal slut

01-15-13, 07:29

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013

**** me. There are parts of this that will hopefully get smacked down

Mr. Alan Gura will be busy for quite some time, between what's going on in NY, CT, and possibly CA. :D

As much as it stings, I will be opening my wallet to the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), which I believe has been funding 2A projects such as Heller vs. D.C. and Macdonald vs. Chicago.

Scoby

01-15-13, 07:49

The criminals just become a little more empowered in NYC.

-Jax

Sure have. This is an outrage.

My sig line by the way. ;)

TXBob

01-15-13, 08:33

I feel terrible for gunowners in NY State and anyone in NY state who might be interested in buying a firearm.

I don't agree with #2.

There is no reason to punish NY gunowners more than they have already been. Not everyone can blink like a genie, find a new job out of state, and move. It takes time and money.

The idea is just like international sanctions. Right now only "the good guys" are feeling the pinch. #2 hits everyone. Yes it also punishes legitimate gun owners. But its a way (if anyone has another way I'm all ears) to squeeze the higher ups who typically exempt themselves. If NY wants to disarm, DISARM EVERYONE.

And I'm not suggesting anyone move. I am fully aware that this is collateral damage prone, but we have to fight back. You think the Politicians of NY fight fair?

Perhaps a modification would be to only sell "NY legal" firearms to LEO/MIL. Restrict all sales to NY compliant magazines, No "assualt weapons" (They are banned). ANd limit Ammo orders to 7 rounds per officer per department.

But on principle I support a boycott of all NY state agencies by Manufacturers.

chapperjoe

01-15-13, 08:37

I know some guys are thinking "oh well its NY, glad I don't live there" but we better acknowledge what just happened because it's probably coming to a state (and country) near you.

I know several states are planning on pushing legislation and we still don't know what Crazy Joe is going to recommend.

Get active and involved at both the state and federal level.

I don't know if the NY situation is repeatable.
Skelos was always one inch shy of an anti- he just needed the bribe (redistricting) to turn.

NRA rated him way too high for years, and relied on him, and built up the fantasy that he was our man in albany.
the demographics in NY never supported anything but the law that was passed, the NYSRPA did a FINE job of delaying it for over a decade though.
we need to be real about NY, it is what that law is.
rabidly anti-freedom.

Crow Hunter

01-15-13, 08:41

New Yorkers..You will have one year to sell your mags or be felons...

Those EVIL Assault Clip Magazines that cause so much pain and anguish are now going to be moved across state lines to do their damage in another part of the country.

Yet the same politicians complain constantly about the "lax" gun laws of neighboring states that allow weapons to come into New York.

No one called them on this?

Of course they are doing it to prevent a Constitutional challenge of the law, but it still flies in the face of their particular "reason".

Maybe, just maybe this will galvanize the rest of the country and demonstrate to them that the "Slippery Slope" is real. They won't stop at 10 rd magazines and an AWB. They will continue to push for more.

I misdemeanor for loading more than 7 rounds into your magazine.... Really? So are they going to have "shot counters" or "magazine loading inspectors" at ranges to make sure you don't put that extra round in their????

PdxMotoxer

01-15-13, 08:43

I agree with "other" states will soon follow.

when i first read about the 7-round mags and nothing over 10
(one year to get rid of anything that holds over 10) if you do have
a 10 rd mag (like the stock one that came in my ruger 10/22 in the 70's when i was a kid) and i load it with 10 in the peoples republic of NY
i could face felony charges??

i thought i had to be reading that wrong.. no way would that ever pass.

SO the new 8-shot 22 revolvers... (you better not load that extra ONE 22lr round or go to prison)

Having been born and raised in Oregon.
YES i would move out in a heartbeat if that was here.

Pork Chop

01-15-13, 08:46

Not sure if this has been posted, but here's a state by state breakdown of what's on the move.
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1834361

montanadave

01-15-13, 09:06

Too late for New Yorkers but I donated $250 to the 2nd Amendment Foundation this morning.

Crow Hunter

01-15-13, 09:09

So this has only passed the Senate right now, correct?

What are the chances of it getting voted down in the Assembly?

Sry0fcr

01-15-13, 09:15

You NY folks, I understand that you're pissed off but I'd caution against openly posting on the ****ing internet about how you're not going to follow the law. Did we forget Yeager already? Do what you feel is right but you should probably keep quiet about it. Things are pretty rapidly degenerating...

J-Dub

01-15-13, 09:17

Who in the **** would live in that shithole state? Screw newyork.

Hehuhates

01-15-13, 09:19

KalashniKEV

01-15-13, 09:20

What are the chances of it getting voted down in the Assembly?

Zero.

The NYS Assembly has a Democrat super majority (67.1%).

The NYS Senate is Republican controlled (57%).

Crow Hunter

01-15-13, 09:29

Zero.

The NYS Assembly has a Democrat super majority (67.1%).

The NYS Senate is Republican controlled (57%).

Shit.

I guess it will be on to the courts now.

As soon as we all can learn who will be challenging this in court, we need to donate to their cause.

New rallying cry when talking about gun bans:

"Remember New York!"

HackerF15E

01-15-13, 09:30

Is anyone seeing that there will be any public backlash brewing in NYS for this?

Or will it just pass silently?

Sry0fcr

01-15-13, 09:37

**** em'

The problem is that they have more power and resources to **** you than you have to **** them. All options have not yet been exhausted, in the mean time keep your head down before you take yourselves out of the fight.

nineteenkilo

01-15-13, 09:47

My condolences to you folks up there in NY.

I'll second LSHD's offer and extend it to Alabama. If you want to get out of NY and need a place to go - we're here. I'll help in any way I can.

Hehuhates

01-15-13, 09:50

I'm not changing a thing. Keep YOUR head down I say **** it, what will be will be it's on them to decide how far they wanna go with this. They started this fight. I just want to be left the **** alone. I'm satisfied that I did my part without saying **** em'. Well **** em'. And anyone who registers their shit is a whipped dog. I still haven't decided if I'll just cross the river and be done with it or stay. Either way be prepared to deal with this yourself soon. Maybe 10 years.

sinlessorrow

01-15-13, 10:00

So does this effectively ban all handguns? I know rifles are a no go but what about huting rifles and shotguns.

Warp

01-15-13, 10:20

So does this effectively ban all handguns? I know rifles are a no go but what about huting rifles and shotguns.

It wouldn't effectively ban all anything.

It would not ban all semi auto rifles or handguns.

It certainly would ban some "hunting rifles" though. There's no reason whatsoever that the rifles they are targeting are not hunting rifles.

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 10:24

So does this effectively ban all handguns? I know rifles are a no go but what about huting rifles and shotguns.

It essentially bans guns like the fnx45 tactical and hk 45ct, and others with threaded barrels. it's essentially a de facto ban of semis that come with 10 round mags. Think about it closely. If you possess 10 round mags now you can only load them to 7? This isn't a retard range restriction where it depends on other members to police their own to make sure they don't load too many rounds. They will soon correct this "accidental oversight" when someone complains it's unenforceable. The goal has been to remove guns, period. That's the end game and this nonsense of loading 7 is a distraction to make the claim they aren't taking your guns away.

Manufacturers, however, and dealers with current compliant (non LE) guns wont be selling what they have now which will undoubtedly lead to shop closings I'm sure. No new guns will come in until Glock, Sig, Smith et al figure out how and if it will be economically feasible to make new compliant guns to NY. If not feasible, guess what? No new shipments to NY except perhaps LE guns.

I have countless friends who retired and will shortly become instant criminals and I was planning to leave as soon as retirement was approved. This just confirms I'm making the right decision. I haven't seen any changes to the penal law exemptions for LE so that seems to have stayed in place but I highly doubt anyone selling ammo will ship direct to LE in NY anymore and ammo for dept orders is already getting scarce, forget individual officers trying to practice on their own.

Again as an LEO, I despise these bogus laws because they do nothing to stop criminals. I've seen it first hand and folks like that idiot Skelos claiming otherwise is a farce. What I'm especially pissed about is my idiot state senator, republican, and another local senator who is a retired cop, both voted for this unconstitutional seizure. The one bright spot, sadly, is that someone gets to tell that idiot Bo Dietl to hand in his "clips" since he's such a loud mouth idiot complaining about them as a retired cop.

Irish

01-15-13, 10:35

No new guns will come in until Glock, Sig, Smith et al figure out how and if it will be economically feasible to make new compliant guns to NY. If not feasible, guess what? No new shipments to NY except perhaps LE guns.

I have countless friends who retired and will shortly become instant criminals and I was planning to leave as soon as retirement was approved. This just confirms I'm making the right decision. I haven't seen any changes to the penal law exemptions for LE so that seems to have stayed in place but I highly doubt anyone selling ammo will ship direct to LE in NY anymore and ammo for dept orders is already getting scarce, forget individual officers trying to practice on their own.

I don't think there's enough volume, especially due to restrictions, to make it economically viable for companies to engineer and produce "NY Ban" weapons. But I could be wrong.

Prior to this were retired LE restricted to 10 round magazines like the rest of NY's citizens or could they legally use full capacity magazines?

thmpr

01-15-13, 10:37

I remember when everyone laughed, ignored, and refused to deal with CA. I think every state need to understand that were all in for the long haul and that we need to work together even though your state is not affected by the AWB. For example - The great state of Wyoming and Texas.

maximus83

01-15-13, 10:50

One of the worst aspects of the NY AWB law is the "required" mental health reporting. Here's a summary:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyregion/new-york-legislators-hope-for-speedy-vote-on-gun-laws.html

The most significant new proposal would require mental health professionals to report to local mental health officials when they believe that patients are likely to harm themselves or others. Law enforcement would then be authorized to confiscate any firearm owned by a dangerous patient; therapists would not be sanctioned for a failure to report such patients if they acted “in good faith.”

Notice that mental health workers are "required" to report, and that confiscation can (and likely will) ensue. You have to expect that now the burden of proof will be on the reported owner to demonstrate that he is of sound mind and not a danger. But how exactly do you PROVE that, conclusively? It's easy to make the accusation that someone may pose a danger, based on a standard list of "indicators" such as PTSD, depression, or whatever. But once you've been so reported, how do you clear your name, what's the process, how long does it take, and do they COMPLETELY clear you or leave you on some "list"? And if mental health workers are required to report or face "sanctions", you have to think they'll err on the side of reporting whenever they're in doubt.

This mental health reporting aspect of the law is really bad, and I have to think something like this in the future will be worked into Obamacare and required of primary care physicians as well.

rushca01

01-15-13, 10:55

True patriot!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rRSUEaLKvA

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 10:56

I don't think there's enough volume, especially due to restrictions, to make it economically viable for companies to engineer and produce "NY Ban" weapons. But I could be wrong.

Prior to this were retired LE restricted to 10 round magazines like the rest of NY's citizens or could they legally use full capacity magazines?

Though most active LEOs would not question a retired cop, the exemption technically ends upon retirement and the unlucky retiree who ends up in some shooting or is reported in some fashion will undoubtedly face a very unfavorable scenario of prosecution and confiscation. Upon retirement, LEOs are forced to apply for a handgun permit to possess handguns owned while active, even though they can still carry nationally with a retired ID. Any restricted guns such as AR15 pistols would not be able to be registered on the permit. Under 265 of the Penal law it specifically lists the LE exemption and a retiree no longer retains the status or exemption.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-15-13, 10:57

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 11:00

One of the worst aspects of the NY AWB law is the "required" mental health reporting. Here's a summary:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyregion/new-york-legislators-hope-for-speedy-vote-on-gun-laws.html

Notice that mental health workers are "required" to report, and that confiscation can (and likely will) ensue. You have to expect that now the burden of proof will be on the reported owner to demonstrate that he is of sound mind and not a danger. But how exactly do you PROVE that, conclusively? It's easy to make the accusation that someone may pose a danger, based on a standard list of "indicators" such as PTSD, depression, or whatever. But once you've been so reported, how do you clear your name, what's the process, how long does it take, and do they COMPLETELY clear you or leave you on some "list"? And if mental health workers are required to report or face "sanctions", you have to think they'll err on the side of reporting whenever they're in doubt.

This mental health reporting aspect of the law is really bad, and I have to think something like this in the future will be worked into Obamacare and required of primary care physicians as well.

Indeed. If you read the bill it clearly suggests that doctors can avoid liability by reporting people to be entered into the database. As doctors already face a great deal of liability with over-litigious zealot lawyers, what do you think doctors will do? Slight hint of an issue and CYA begins. I don't see any provision in the bill for clearing one's name so that in and of itself is a denial of due process from such freedom loving geniuses as cuomo, skelos and silver.

Edit: looks like the provision exists but is vague enough and leaves plenty of wiggle room for people to be denied arbitrarily.

(2) The commissioner shall establish within the office of mental
health an administrative process to permit a person who has been or may
be disqualified from possessing such a firearm pursuant to 18 USC
922(4)(d) OR WHO HAS BEEN OR MAY BE DISQUALIFIED FROM CONTINUING TO HAVE
A LICENSE TO CARRY, POSSESS, REPAIR, OR DISPOSE OF A FIREARM UNDER
SECTION 400.00 OF THE PENAL LAW BECAUSE SUCH PERSON WAS INVOLUNTARILY
COMMITTED OR CIVILLY CONFINED TO A FACILITY UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF
THE COMMISSIONER, to petition for relief from that disability where such
person's record and reputation are such that such person will not be
likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and where the
granting of the relief would not be contrary to public safety. The
commissioner shall promulgate regulations to establish the relief from
disabilities program, which shall include, but not be limited to,

S. 2230 10 A. 2388
provisions providing for: (i) an opportunity for a disqualified person
to petition for relief in writing; (ii) the authority for the agency to
require that the petitioner undergo a clinical evaluation and risk
assessment; and (iii) a requirement that the agency issue a decision in
writing explaining the reasons for a denial or grant of relief. The
denial of a petition for relief from disabilities may be reviewed de
novo pursuant to the proceedings under article seventy-eight of the
civil practice law and rules.

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 11:09

Irish

01-15-13, 11:15

Though most active LEOs would not question a retired cop, the exemption technically ends upon retirement and the unlucky retiree who ends up in some shooting or is reported in some fashion will undoubtedly face a very unfavorable scenario of prosecution and confiscation. Upon retirement, LEOs are forced to apply for a handgun permit to possess handguns owned while active, even though they can still carry nationally with a retired ID. Any restricted guns such as AR15 pistols would not be able to be registered on the permit. Under 265 of the Penal law it specifically lists the LE exemption and a retiree no longer retains the status or exemption.

Thanks for the info.

warpigM-4

01-15-13, 11:20

" Under the plan, if a mental health professional believes someone--gun owner or not--poses a threat, they will be able to report that to their county mental health office, which would then convey the warning to law enforcement.

The information would then be included in a database that is used for background checks for gun purchasers. Should that person already be found to have a licensed weapon, police could suspend or revoke the license and confiscate the firearm.

Further, because existing assault weapon owners will for the first time be required to register with the state under the emerging plan, officials could take action if they wind up on the mental health list.

The legislative package would also include an expansion of Kendra’s Law, which allows judges to order mental health treatment for disturbed individuals."

that is just FUBAR

FlyingHunter

01-15-13, 11:21

TXBob

01-15-13, 11:29

Why don't we boycott those assholes?

I bet if somebody could convince Glock to boycott NY then somebody would listen.

Shit, if we could get enough people to boycott anything that had economic backing in NY then maybe those dicks would listen to us, and stop ****ing with the 2A of their people.

I'm for this--earlier I floated a guns+ammo sales boycott, but additionally boycotting any NY manufactured product is a good idea.

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 11:32

Well said

Read the law a bit and you'll start to notice things that would have made the Gestapo proud. Ny taxpayers get to be fleeced to pay for the denial of their own rights. Fun fun.

jaxman7

01-15-13, 11:34

The_War_Wagon

01-15-13, 11:37

Alex V

01-15-13, 11:39

This is sad... just sad.

Most will fall in line, the ones that dont will be so alone there will be little they can do.

Makes NJ look like Texas...

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 11:39

This would be the proper response to the attempted enforcement of such tyrannical nonsense...

Hell no it's not.

I'm not gonna just stand at the edge of that bridge. You'd totally get shot. You're supposed to take cover.

Brahmzy

01-15-13, 12:02

Kimber (the largest 1911 mover) is in Yonkers. Wonder how they feel about this? Probably not too bad, since, conincidentally, the capacity ban won't affect them as bad as others.

Whole thing's a damn cluster.

chapperjoe

01-15-13, 12:05

rushca01

01-15-13, 12:17

Hon Andy Goodell is killing it!!!! Email him your support!

jaxman7

01-15-13, 12:18

Have a link rush?

-Jax

thopkins22

01-15-13, 12:21

there are some VERY GOOD R's fighting for us here in the assembly floor now.

http://nystateassembly.granicus.com/mediaplayer.php?view_id+2&event_id=81

the D's talking will make your teeth grind (not just their lack of english), but some R's are AWESOME.

really 1776 patriot level arguments coming from the R's.

Watching this now. Thank you!

Apparently all of the features that make an "assault rifle" were recommended to be banned by the state police.

The Republican doing the questioning now is great.

Q:"How does an adjustable stock make the rifle more dangerous?" You can buy various length stocks..."

A:"Because we rely on the expertise given to us by the State Police."

Q:"Why is a thumbhole stock more dangerous?"

A:"Because the state police told us so."

Ridiculous.

rushca01

01-15-13, 12:21

Watching this now. Thank you!

Apparently all of the features that make an "assault rifle" were recommended to be banned by the state police.

The Republican doing the questioning now is great.

Q:"How does an adjustable stock make the rifle more dangerous?" You can buy various length stocks..."

A:"Because we rely on the expertise given to us by the State Police."

Q:"Why is a thumbhole stock more dangerous?"

A:"Because the state police told us so."

Ridiculous.

Yep, just watched that too.. Andy Goodell was doing a very nice job!!!

thopkins22

01-15-13, 12:21

Have a link rush?

-Jax

Posted two above yours by Chapperjoe.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-15-13, 12:22

there are some VERY GOOD R's fighting for us here in the assembly floor now.

http://nystateassembly.granicus.com/mediaplayer.php?view_id+2&event_id=81

the D's talking will make your teeth grind (not just their lack of english), but some R's are AWESOME.

really 1776 patriot level arguments coming from the R's.

Watching it now, the old white haired funny speaking R is destroying the liberal ****ers. They have no clue what they passed, no clue what it has done to their state, and no clue what any of their law means. And they pushed it through at midnight and made felons out of good men in one day.

Warp

01-15-13, 12:24

Watching it now, the old white haired funny speaking R is destroying the liberal ****ers. They have no clue what they passed, no clue what it has done to their state, and no clue what any of their law means. And they pushed it through at midnight and made felons out of good men in one day.

...except it hasn't passed yet, right? "Shoe-in" or not, it has to pass the assembly and then be signed, correct?

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-15-13, 12:25

...except it hasn't passed yet, right? "Shoe-in" or not, it has to pass the assembly and then be signed, correct?

No clue, I thought it had passed already...

Warp

01-15-13, 12:26

No clue, I thought it had passed already...

It passed the state senate, which is majority Republican

It then has to pass the state assembly, which is majority Democrat.

Then it has to be signed by the governor, who is a reincarnated Nazi with a D next to his name.

So people are acting as though it's a done deal, because it's arguable that it is.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-15-13, 12:29

It passed the state senate, which is majority Republican

It then has to pass the state assembly, which is majority Democrat.

Then it has to be signed by the governor, who is a reincarnated Nazi with a D next to his name.

So people are acting as though it's a done deal, because it's arguable that it is.

Gotcha, I appreciate the clarification.

jaxman7

01-15-13, 12:31

Posted two above yours by Chapperjoe.

Gotcha..missed it...thanks

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 12:31

That dude really just said that NYC was one of the safest places in the country...

Warp

01-15-13, 12:31

Gotcha, I appreciate the clarification.

Follow it here.

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 12:33

sinlessorrow

01-15-13, 12:33

I wonder how this will affect it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/01/10/gun-advocates-celebrate-secret-obamacare-provision-forbidding-exec-order-to-regulate-guns-and-ammo/2/

Hehuhates

01-15-13, 12:35

...except it hasn't passed yet, right? "Shoe-in" or not, it has to pass the assembly and then be signed, correct?

Yes, but a formality really.

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-15-13, 12:35

Cut from NYS constitution
New York: Nothing specific, however Article XII, Section 1 of the Constitution covers both the "organized" and "unorganized" militia and reads:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Article 2, Section 4 of the New York Civil Rights Law also reads almost identical to the Second Amendment:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

30 cal slut

01-15-13, 12:39

Emminently stupid legislation - emminently ignorable politicians. :rolleyes:

This would be the proper response to the attempted enforcement of such tyrannical nonsense...

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/meetmeatthebridge.png

Maybe in Noo Yawk State.

:cool:

Elsewhere...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/9403ae79663b53e54768bd31e7bd0a9a.jpg

Irish

01-15-13, 12:40

Apparently all of the features that make an "assault rifle" were recommended to be banned by the state police.

The Republican doing the questioning now is great.

Q:"How does an adjustable stock make the rifle more dangerous?" You can buy various length stocks..."

A:"Because we rely on the expertise given to us by the State Police."

Q:"Why is a thumbhole stock more dangerous?"

A:"Because the state police told us so."

And this is why people are proponents of gun manufacturers ceasing sales to law enforcement. It has nothing to do with the individual officer or being "anti-LE" and everything to do with what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Maybe denying police the weapons that they are in favor of outlawing for citizens would send a distinct message to the FOP and they'd get off of their asses and actually stand up for the citizens they took an oath to protect and for the Constitution.

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 12:40

Maybe in Noo Yawk State.

:cool:

Elsewhere...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/9403ae79663b53e54768bd31e7bd0a9a.jpg

What kinda asshole reloads an AR like that?

Oh, and finger on the trigger.

SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS

01-15-13, 12:42

That dude really just said that NYC was one of the safest places in the country...

Safest big city according to the con game of CompStat in the NYPD and countless patrol officers and even supervisors have been blaring about the number fudging for a while now. Those on the inside know the reality but lying politicians love their con games.

I wonder if Ray Kelly will complain if glock, smith and sig stopped supplying them with duty guns. Of course, considering people had to twist his arm to authorize magazines above ten rounds and hollow point ammo back when the nypd adopted semis, I'm sure he won't care since he rides with armed escorts everywhere. It took a cop killed while reloading a 38 revolver to push him to allow semis in the first place, even though transit PD had already gone to Glocks and was absorbed in. I believe he almost took their Glocks away at the time but their union fought him til he caved.

I wouldn't blame colt, sig, smith and glock for pulling out of NY, even if it means I ad other LEOs get screwed, but I doubt they'll turn down big contracts here. As for Kimber and Remington, hopefully they do pull out. Many Remington workers did contact their reps about voting no but we'll see if they fight with as much vigor as gun owners. They certainly threatened to go if micro stamping passed.

tb-av

01-15-13, 12:47

They are afraid.... they see the country arming itself. they see the NRA growing at unheard of rates. They need to react as strongly as possible and make as much illegal as they can as soon as possible.

Obama will hide behind children tomorrow as he take the rest of our guns.

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 12:54

The guy talking about how it should be okay to publish the name and address of gun owners makes me sick.

thopkins22

01-15-13, 12:56

The guy talking about how it should be okay to publish the name and address of gun owners makes me sick.

I tend to think that it should be legal for a newspaper to print anything they want. But on the flip side it should be illegal for the government to have collected that data in the first place.

Magic_Salad0892

01-15-13, 13:05

The guy arguing that pistol grips giving hunters more accuracy is using the wrong argument.

It's retarded. Also "clip" is annoying.

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 13:37

These republican are working for their money!! Awesome!!!

I'm loving this republicans! lol

newyork

01-15-13, 13:50

Where are you guys watching this

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 13:51

Where are you guys watching this

http://nystateassembly.granicus.com/mediaplayer.php?view_id+2&event_id=81

NWPilgrim

01-15-13, 13:57

And this is why people are proponents of gun manufacturers ceasing sales to law enforcement. It has nothing to do with the individual officer or being "anti-LE" and everything to do with what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Maybe denying police the weapons that they are in favor of outlawing for citizens would send a distinct message to the FOP and they'd get off of their asses and actually stand up for the citizens they took an oath to protect and for the Constitution.

Exactly. Spot on!

I think the MINIMUM standard for what is allowed civilians is ANYTHING issued to individual infantry or federal LEA or local state police. Likewise those agencies should not be permitted to issue individual weapons not allowed to citizens. Equal footing of the populace and the enforcement.

As has been pointed out, citizens are the "first responders", that is they are the ones being attacked by criminals. They are the only ones in 99% of cases that are on the scene at the initiation of violence. The police usually show up some time later. Therefore citizens should be able to have the same weapons that infantry and police are allowed/issued.

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 14:35

Steven McLaughlin nailed it!

Hehuhates

01-15-13, 14:37

Steven McLaughlin nailed it!

Yes he did. Too bad it doesn't matter.
:(

Mjolnir

01-15-13, 14:40

Is there anyone who really thinks that going to 7 from 10 would do anything? (Short of driving cost, complexity and shortages)

Who is going to make 7-round Glock 17 mags? This is just silly.

bc

That is the point...

The_War_Wagon

01-15-13, 14:42

Maybe in Noo Yawk State.

:cool:

Elsewhere...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/9403ae79663b53e54768bd31e7bd0a9a.jpg

Niiiiice...

Forward THIS picture to His Highness, Cuomo - see if he blows a blood vessel... ;)

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/FOUNDERSHomelandSecurity.jpg

Mjolnir

01-15-13, 14:43

The seven round thing was in a leaked doc in 1995, no less, titled "BRADY II". Tin foil stuff for many.

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-15-13, 14:45

The assembly still has to vote

mikelowrey

01-15-13, 14:45

Yes he did. Too bad it doesn't matter.
:(

Yeah... It is obvious the way Joseph Lentol answers questions, you know he got absolutely no clue of what the bill is about.

Tony Jordan asked him "Are peace and retired exempt?"

Lentol: We believe that they are, not sure about it.

Also Tony asked him that failing to register is a misdemeanor on one page and in the next page makes it a felony.

Lentol response: The bill is a little bit confusing.

They basically tried to say: Law abiding citizens are getting fu-cked no matter what and without vaseline.

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-15-13, 14:46

Yeah... It is obvious the way Joseph Lentol answers questions, you know he got absolutely no clue of what the bill is about.

Tony Jordan asked him "Are peace and retired exempt?"

Lentol: We believe that they are, not sure about it.

Also Tony asked him that failing to register is a misdemeanor on one page and in the next page makes it a felony.

Lentol response: The bill is a little bit confusing.

They basically tried to say: Law abiding citizens are getting fu-cked no matter what and without vaseline.
What an ass clown right they don't even know what they signed

Palmguy

01-15-13, 14:59

Steven McLaughlin nailed it!

Sure did.

Exactly. Spot on!

I think the MINIMUM standard for what is allowed civilians is ANYTHING issued to individual infantry or federal LEA or local state police. Likewise those agencies should not be permitted to issue individual weapons not allowed to citizens. Equal footing of the populace and the enforcement.

As has been pointed out, citizens are the "first responders", that is they are the ones being attacked by criminals. They are the only ones in 99% of cases that are on the scene at the initiation of violence. The police usually show up some time later. Therefore citizens should be able to have the same weapons that infantry and police are allowed/issued.

Agreed.

Mauser KAR98K

01-15-13, 15:01

Linda B. Rosenthal acts and talks like a twit from my college. What a moron.

Belloc

01-15-13, 15:03

Edit.

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-15-13, 15:03

Linda B. Rosenthal acts and talks like a twit from my college. What a moron.

They keep blaming the guns of legal gun owners, and street violence that's a direct result of there culture.

Belmont31R

01-15-13, 15:04

What an ass clown right they don't even know what they signed

Nope. Idiots. And this law won't do a damn thing to stop mass shootings.

It doesn't matter what mental health laws they have because these people tend to take them from family members..or like the guy who shot the first responders had that dumb cunt straw purchase them for him. Lanza shot his mom in the face to take her guns and they think they are doing anything...:rolleyes:

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-15-13, 15:08

Nope. Idiots. And this law won't do a damn thing to stop mass shootings.

It doesn't matter what mental health laws they have because these people tend to take them from family members..or like the guy who shot the first responders had that dumb cunt straw purchase them for him. Lanza shot his mom in the face to take her guns and they think they are doing anything...:rolleyes:

I know its crazy, they arnt listening to use.

Mjolnir

01-15-13, 15:09

I don't want your sympathy. And yes if this happened restricted items would have to be purchased for work use on letter head just like the last ban. All LEO's however do deserve more respect than we are getting from some tin foil types on here for putting it on the line.
Pat

Dude, give it a break. Your job is no more important than any other. We need ALL MANNER OF JOBS AND PEOPLE WITH ALL MANNER OF SKILLS.

NO special privileges because you're LE.

If you/we don't like the law then its EVERYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY - INCLUDING LEO - to abolish it.

You are supporting a two caste system.

Not here, brother.

No.6

01-15-13, 15:12

It's retarded. Also "clip" is annoying.

Let them pass the laws with all the banning of "clip" that they want. Matter of fact we should call it "clip" and encourage them to do the same when they write the law (since they're so much smarter than us). And as we know the "law" is precise in it's language and usage.
I know all my guns take magazines.... ;)

Mjolnir

01-15-13, 15:12

The main difference is LEO's are never off duty. I have had people come to my house before when they needed help because they know I am a cop. I have had to arrest people when I have been off duty.

Pat

I'm never off duty and I don't have a union protecting me if I **** up...

C'mon, man.