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View Full Version : CIVL, (civilian legal ATPIAL/PEQ) Pics/info



RustedAce
01-16-13, 12:38
Thought this deserved its own thread.

TNVC has had me looking around shot for the latest and greatest low light, no light gear, and here is something VERY interesting. Inisght just got these out at their booth, will be uploading lots of pics and info.

Release, around 2nd quarter of this year.
Price, target is around 500$
Takes 1 AA
Takes Doctor/Insight MRDs.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2nrzmme.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/mljpra.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2wqcvur.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/6r3o86.jpg

Rattlehead
01-16-13, 12:42
Hmmmmmm.....

Tagging this thread, looks promising.

NoveskeFan
01-16-13, 13:04
I'm interested. Looks good, and attractive pricing.

nathanm40a1
01-16-13, 14:03
This is pretty much what I have been waiting for. I wish it took CR123s but the main thing for me is that the IR and visible lasers are slaved to each other so it can be swapped between platforms and zeroed without hassle.

eodinert
01-16-13, 14:25
This is full of win. LOVE the price.

hkhunter
01-16-13, 14:28
I'm liking it! any info on color options? also, does the MRDS co-witness? it looks like it would be to high.

ffhounddog
01-16-13, 15:29
Yes I want this.

Would be my second IR Laser and it looks like a full win.

LiquidG
01-16-13, 15:41
How much did the old CVL laser or whatever it was called cost? Thought it retailed for around $1000. $500ish sounds way to cheap considering what they charge for eotech's/MX3's/WMX200s etc.

If they really get it out around $500 that would be outstanding, since I would be able to get it for around $125...:dance3:

nathanm40a1
01-16-13, 15:50
The DBAL I2 which is laser devices version is around $500 to $600. I really think Insight did a much better job and that this will be the best product of its kind to date. The Laser Devices versions are just military housings with civilian features and no iluminator. this is a purpose built housing that has an IR and visible laser that are slaved together, its much smaller than the LDI versions because it is purpose built and is only as big as it needs to be. I am pretty excited.

nml
01-16-13, 16:01
Not sure how I feel about moving the fire button.

LiquidG
01-16-13, 16:02
Any word if it will come in tan?

og556
01-16-13, 16:16
If this really gets sold for $500 I would be amazed.

kwilkin
01-16-13, 16:40
I wish they would have ditched the MRDS mount and kept it in the PEQ-15 form factor. It is pretty bulky as is.

I suppose I like it better than the DBAL, and the slaved lasers is a nice touch that will make zeroing a breeze.

I'm sure it will come in tan.

Dos Cylindros
01-16-13, 17:25
That CIVIL looks very good. If it is in the $500 range I will deffinately be getting one for my duty gun.

Rattlehead
01-16-13, 17:48
Could do without the MRDS on top, but looks very interesting.

Caeser25
01-16-13, 18:39
I like the fact it uses a AA.

TehLlama
01-16-13, 19:24
The configuration I'd like to see on this would be running the dual remote switch and pairing it with the Surefire 3V Scout/Executive Vampire light at 12:00 directly in front of the laser unit.

RustedAce
01-16-13, 19:35
Any word if it will come in tan?

Yep, they said it will.

patriot_man
01-16-13, 19:48
I'd rather have it powered by CR123 with the fire button on top but beggers can't be choosers. Liking the fact that the lasers are slaved

RTUtah
01-16-13, 20:07
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison with a PEQ-15; it looks a bit fat sitting on that rail behind the FSB but it might be a weird angle. Definitely interested.

j-dubya
01-16-13, 21:01
A lot of posters in this thread so far have wished this thing had a top-mounted switch and took a 123A battery. Have you all not seen Laser Devices' CQBL-1? Aside from the dramatic price difference, this looks like what you guys are asking for...unless everyone requires the offset lasers.

M4_shooter
01-16-13, 21:28
I like, looks good

nathanm40a1
01-17-13, 00:47
A lot of posters in this thread so far have wished this thing had a top-mounted switch and took a 123A battery. Have you all not seen Laser Devices' CQBL-1? Aside from the dramatic price difference, this looks like what you guys are asking for...unless everyone requires the offset lasers.

It would be kind of pointless to mount an inline laser behind a front sight on an AR. Also I always wondered what the visible laser was good for on the I2 since it was useless to BZO the IR laser. I like that LDI brought the class 1 lasers to market but until this was posted here I thought I would just have to get an OTAL.

I don't think the fire button will be an issue for me, I just would have liked the batteries to be common to my NV.

patriot_man
01-17-13, 01:55
Love the size of the CQBL-1, just wish it was offset.

I agree that the CIVL is not really what I expected, I thought it was going to be low profile as the military PEQ-15.

tctlrld
01-17-13, 02:35
Did anyone hear any dates on this? I have a CQBL-1 but I like what I see from the CIVL.

ddnguyen9
01-17-13, 02:45
I like it! Price is awesome!

j-dubya
01-17-13, 10:38
I hope this will be the first of a few class 1 models from L3, particularly one WITH an illuminator. I wonder, with their price difference from LDI's lineup, would L3 release unit with lasers AND illuminator in the $1000 range...?

kaltesherz
01-18-13, 04:40
Awesome, now they need to release PVS 14's for $1000 and I'm set...
PEQ15 w/ no NODs = FML

nathanm40a1
01-18-13, 04:59
I think a Civ PEQ16 would be awesome. What I mean by this is this unit with a Surefire Vampire head on it powered by a CR123 if not two of them so the battery life would make the unit effective. I liked the idea of the DBAL D2 but the weight and low battery life turned me off. Insight could learn from that and it would be awesome.


As it is I like the simplicity of this and the price point makes it a winner.

J8127
01-18-13, 05:28
What is the point of the rds mount? Like if you had a scope and mounted this at 3 or 9?

Alex V
01-18-13, 08:34
Wonder how far out the laser will remain visible... I don't know much about these and need to learn more.

Def. interested in this guy.

kwilkin
01-18-13, 08:35
Awesome, now they need to release PVS 14's for $1000 and I'm set...
PEQ15 w/ no NODs = FML

Yes and no. There is something to be said for a visible LASER, too. I am a ways from NODs but I don't feel like my PEQ-15 is worthless; under utilized, sure, but still worthy of being mounted.

doriwoogie
01-19-13, 00:48
I hope this will be the first of a few class 1 models from L3, particularly one WITH an illuminator. I wonder, with their price difference from LDI's lineup, would L3 release unit with lasers AND illuminator in the $1000 range...?

I second that!

I have to ask though - if they designed a whole new housing, why not make it with something other than the thumbscrew?

interfan
01-19-13, 12:59
I second that!

I have to ask though - if they designed a whole new housing, why not make it with something other than the thumbscrew?

I saw it and the thumbscrew actually does look pretty solid in person. I asked the same question at the L3 booth and they mentioned that this was for LE/CIV use and as such was made for to a price-point and a lever mount would cost much more. They said that the design is for basically static mounting (like loctited on a patrol carbine for local LE as an aiming aid in low light) and not for mission adaptable types of uses or government agency use with night vision The aftermarket will probably come up with a lever mount if this turns out to be a good selling item.

flash22
01-19-13, 13:30
I assume this is a red visible laser only?

NoveskeFan
01-19-13, 13:51
I assume this is a red visible laser only?

Its IR & visible.

doriwoogie
01-19-13, 14:49
I saw it and the thumbscrew actually does look pretty solid in person. I asked the same question at the L3 booth and they mentioned that this was for LE/CIV use and as such was made for to a price-point and a lever mount would cost much more. They said that the design is for basically static mounting (like loctited on a patrol carbine for local LE as an aiming aid in low light) and not for mission adaptable types of uses or government agency use with night vision The aftermarket will probably come up with a lever mount if this turns out to be a good selling item.

Thanks Interfan. Just curious - is the other end of the thumbscrew still part of the housing like with the mil ones? Also, did you by any chance ask them if they were coming out with one that has an illuminator?

flash22
01-19-13, 15:04
Its IR & visible.


Sorry, meant about the vis being red or green.

EzGoingKev
01-19-13, 15:25
For the price I would be interested but for me -

Use (1) CR123 instead of the (1) AA. I can appreciate that the AA's are cheap and extremely easy to source but I already carry 123's for my lights. Also from what I have read temperature can have a HUGE effect on the life of AA's.

If this is for the civilian market then they should offer a version without the IR laser to drop the price down. If it ends up being $500 then I could live with that price. If it ends up going for more then I do not want to pay for something I will never use.

Just my 2 cents.

HKocher
01-19-13, 16:29
If this is for the civilian market then they should offer a version without the IR laser to drop the price down. If it ends up being $500 then I could live with that price. If it ends up going for more then I do not want to pay for something I will never use.


There are plenty of visible lasers on the market, not so much for the IR laser market. Making a visible laser only version would be pretty pointless IMHO.

EzGoingKev
01-19-13, 16:31
I am saying they should offer both.

Stickman
01-19-13, 22:38
Could do without the MRDS on top, but looks very interesting.

Its obviously not coming that way for 5 bills.

Rattlehead
01-19-13, 22:39
Its obviously not coming that way for 5 bills.

I wasn't expecting it to.

Stickman
01-19-13, 22:39
Also, did you by any chance ask them if they were coming out with one that has an illuminator?

It was not possible to drop an illuminator in and keep the same size.

HKocher
01-20-13, 00:10
It was not possible to drop an illuminator in and keep the same size.

Which begs the question, why not use the same housing as the ATPIAL, just substitute the class 1 laser? Seems easier and cheaper than redesigning a new housing. My guess is they ditched the illuminator to keep the price down, but I wish they kept it as an option for those willing to pay for it.

RustedAce
01-20-13, 02:04
http://i47.tinypic.com/2jf16dc.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2l8cg1e.jpg

nml
01-20-13, 02:13
They ditched the illuminator because it is a class iii just like the standard laser on the peq.

HKocher
01-20-13, 10:36
They ditched the illuminator because it is a class iii just like the standard laser on the peq.

Ok, I didn't realize there was such a thing as a class III illuminator.

eodinert
01-20-13, 13:06
From what I can tell, a laser illuminator is a no-go for class I, but an LED illuminator is doable.

Regardless of all that, there are already class I laser/illuminators in the market...for $$$$. What I'm excited about is that this seems to be a military quality device, for not a lot of money (on the relative scale). The optic parking on the top is just a bonus.

Victor
01-20-13, 13:12
From what I can tell, a laser illuminator is a no-go for class I, but an LED illuminator is doable.

Regardless of all that, there are already class I laser/illuminators in the market...for $$$$. What I'm excited about is that this seems to be a military quality device, for not a lot of money (on the relative scale). The optic parking on the top is just a bonus.

It is doable with a LED type illuminator but keeping the unit at the present size would have been virtually impossible. But the real reason no illuminator is this unit was actually built for a Mil contract and specs called out specially in what we see here.

To the rest, the units will be offered in black AND tan colors. We will be stocking these as soon as they are out. Final pricing will be announced shortly.

Vic

Dos Cylindros
01-20-13, 15:22
For me, this is the best news out of SHOT this year. I have been looking at the DBAL-I2 for some time now but the fact that they IR laser and vis laser are not slaved on that device has had me holding off. This CIVL has that feature, and a price point which seems outstanding. As long as price does not deviate to far from the $500 mark, I am picking one of these up for my duty gun ASAP.

charmcitycop
01-20-13, 16:12
......

Firefox
01-20-13, 16:23
Tagged to see how this laser develops. This looks like it could be a great addition to my carbine.

rockmyglock
01-24-13, 02:12
To the rest, the units will be offered in black AND tan colors. We will be stocking these as soon as they are out. Final pricing will be announced shortly.

Vic

I'm glad that I have held off on a Class 1 for this long. At this price, I can justify one for me and one one for her.

Are the mounting options modular?

556noob
02-20-13, 20:46
subscribed! prototype looks plasticky or a toy but i'm excited about this product! i hope it is $500 or under

Zhurdan
03-05-13, 15:34
Gonna wait for this over a DBAL-d2, methinks.

Ick
03-05-13, 16:35
Looks nice. Waiting to hold one before purchase.

ClearedHot
03-06-13, 04:56
If the price point remains around the $500 range, I will pick one of these up.

ClearedHot
03-07-13, 02:25
RUMINT sources say the release date has been pushed back to mid April.

OMEGA9000
03-26-13, 13:30
Victor @ TNVC

can we get a comparison pic to the ATPIAL whenever you get your hands on these CIVL? Any news on when we can order them from your website? Or when you will do a review? Thanks!:D

pathfinderheli
04-29-13, 19:31
Bump for any updates on the release of the CIVL!!!

Chrisollis
05-10-13, 02:35
Interested in the CIVL as well. If it comes in at that price point I'm willing to give it a try.

OcM4
05-12-13, 04:28
I called L3 and talked to a product specialist. She said no civilian version of the peq was coming out. This was last month. Wonder if its a hush hush thing.

IZinterrogator
05-12-13, 07:52
I called L3 and talked to a product specialist. She said no civilian version of the peq was coming out. This was last month. Wonder if its a hush hush thing.
Could have been the question since the CIVL is not a civilian version of the PEQ, as it lacks a illuminator. Did you specifically ask about the CIVL or a civilian version of the PEQ? Because if there will not be a CIVL, I will haz a sad.

OcM4
05-12-13, 12:42
I asked for a civilian version of the peq. You would think she would lead me on to Cvl anyway tho

steve--oh
05-12-13, 18:09
I'm still excited. I was kinda hoping they'd stick with the button on top though, very handy to use up there with your support hand thumb.

patriot_man
05-13-13, 05:38
Some intel from the other side.

Not sure on the date but will only be available in black during the initial release.

OMEGA9000
05-23-13, 15:47
Have you guys heard of the L3 ATP-000-A18VIS? I saw it on TOS. Not sure if it's restricted or not, or worth the cash either. :sarcastic:

Ironman8
06-20-13, 21:25
Bumping for info...what's the latest?

coastwatcher42
06-29-13, 04:25
I was talking with a guy at the range the other day and he said his buddy had one. I don't know if he was full of s**t or his buddy really has one. The guy may have had it confused with some other unit.

sparky-kb
07-17-13, 20:51
This is a very had item to get up to date info on around the net. Anything new about price and release date?

TrueSonPatriot1985
09-25-13, 00:19
Any updates on this yet? Getting ready to start the 4th quarter...

jpmuscle
09-26-13, 21:14
Any updates on this yet? Getting ready to start the 4th quarter...

Im pretty sure I read on lightfighter or TOS that it got pushed back till 2014... of course..

JC0352
09-27-13, 12:20
It's a completely different price point, but I'm suprised I haven't seen more chatter on here about the Wilcox RAPTAR Lite ES.

thopkins22
09-27-13, 13:43
It's a completely different price point, but I'm suprised I haven't seen more chatter on here about the Wilcox RAPTAR Lite ES.

It looks great, but I haven't seen a price for it either way.

I'm also highly skeptical of a class 1 IR laser illuminator being able to actually illuminate. I'd love to hear the opinions of experts on that.

At this point a vampire headed something seems to be the best bet for illumination.

hnoppenberger
09-27-13, 18:33
the raptar lite is for sale right now.
I talked to the company and they said the ilu. is good for 1000 feet/333 yards. Id imagine its useable in starlight but without a actual hands on who knows for sure. its very tempting, but its hard to turn down a tried and true vampire/I2 setup for a few hundred less.

TyGuy
10-02-13, 10:35
I'd be interested to see it myself.

TheHorta
01-14-14, 00:20
Guess I'll have to keep my... Ummm... alleged PEQ-15 ownership on the down-low.

I'd consider the DBAL-D2, but I don't want to pay for the added weight and bulk with the lower performance.

Dmaynor
01-14-14, 07:35
I have the DBAL-D2 and I love it. The only thing I could see switching to is the Wilcox.

TheHorta
01-14-14, 09:40
I have the DBAL-D2 and I love it. The only thing I could see switching to is the Wilcox.

I've used a D2 and it's pretty nice. I just don't like the bulk and extra weight. I've developed a neurosis about adding ounces to my rifles. If I have to do it I need to down a fistful of Xanax first to suppress any anxiety.

I swear those extra five ounces on the DBAL are really pounds. ;-)

DIS-LLC
01-14-14, 12:18
Alright, now i can designate all of the...eh it'll be fun anyway!

luckydube56
01-18-14, 12:23
I read on another forum the CIVL is not dead. A reputable distributor indicated L3 brought another prototype to SHOT.

OMEGA9000
01-18-14, 13:10
I read that it was a civilian peq-15. Same housing but with class 1 lasers and a LED illuminator. But don't quote me on it, just word of mouth.

luckydube56
01-18-14, 13:19
I read the same and posted that but since nobody can confirm that I deleted that part from my post. You know...rumors and all. But, if true, it will be worth the wait for me.

OMEGA9000
01-18-14, 13:32
Yeah I have a long way until night vision, but it would be good to get the cheapest part (i.e. IR laser device) out the way. I would for sure pick one or two.

coastwatcher42
01-20-14, 00:03
Yeah I have a long way until night vision, but it would be good to get the cheapest part (i.e. IR laser device) out the way. I would for sure pick one or two.

You could go with the Wilcox RAPTAR ES laser device. That way, you can get your night vision first because it will definately be the cheaper of the two.

bayonet14
09-03-14, 08:29
Pre-order at TNVC $1199

http://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atpial-c-class1-ir-laser/

That is all...

GTF425
09-03-14, 09:55
Pre-order at TNVC $1199

http://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atpial-c-class1-ir-laser/

That is all...

I don't know how they're able to sell it with an IR illuminator that's IIIR, but I don't care. Full factory warranty AND a reasonably sized unit with an illuminator...I want one.

jpmuscle
09-03-14, 12:34
I don't know how they're able to sell it with an IR illuminator that's IIIR, but I don't care. Full factory warranty AND a reasonably sized unit with an illuminator...I want one.
X1ⁿ000.

My heart actually skipped a beat when I saw that

SpartanDCI
09-04-14, 04:10
I have a legal PeQ15 Training model from Insight assigned to my group.......really love it. I am a dyed in the wool PEQ2 fan from the beginning for durability, but the Peq15 is really nice for a short 16 or on the different 40mm's instead of a PSQ18A......................I am going to pull the trigger and get one from TNVC since they have been really good to me answering a bunch of late night emails, while I was overseas................they are the go to people for Helmets, NODs and lasers.........................now to try and talk Ron Martin into selling me a M203A1 folding stand a lone stock and I will be sporting a shorty LMT M203 with SPUHR mount, Aimpoint T2 and the CIV PEQ15...................if H&K sears were not so stupid expensive, I'd dump my cash on that....................but cant go wrong with 40 mike mike..............especially at night when you got NODs ;)

TMS951
09-04-14, 14:57
I don't know how they're able to sell it with an IR illuminator that's IIIR, but I don't care. Full factory warranty AND a reasonably sized unit with an illuminator...I want one.

Has anyone confirmed this is true?

Just checked the specs again, sadly the IR laser is only .7mw class 1, the IR illuminator is class III 3 mw

GTF425
09-04-14, 17:04
Has anyone confirmed this is true?

Just checked the specs again, sadly the IR laser is only .7mw class 1, the IR illuminator is class III 3 mw

Once again, I'm not sure if my posts are just THAT poorly worded, but I know the laser is Class 1 and I personally think that's fine. I'm commenting on how the illuminator is IIIR and unregulated.

The illuminator is what has me all hot and bothered. Being IIIR and unregulated has me confused, and although I'm sure it's 0m since it's available for public purchase, I'd like to know the NOHD for the illuminator on this thing.

kwilkin
09-06-14, 11:52
Once again, I'm not sure if my posts are just THAT poorly worded, but I know the laser is Class 1 and I personally think that's fine. I'm commenting on how the illuminator is IIIR and unregulated.

The illuminator is what has me all hot and bothered. Being IIIR and unregulated has me confused, and although I'm sure it's 0m since it's available for public purchase, I'd like to know the NOHD for the illuminator on this thing.

It's because the illuminator is "staked" at a particular focus and cannot be adjusted. TNVC talks about this on POS...oops, Freudian slip...TOS.

GTF425
09-06-14, 14:02
It's because the illuminator is "staked" at a particular focus and cannot be adjusted. TNVC talks about this on POS...oops, Freudian slip...TOS.

Ahhh. I'm not a smart man, but I'm sure that keeps the NOHD at 0m somehow. I'd kinda like to see how the focus is set in person just to get an idea on its capabilities, but the pics look promising. It almost looks to have the same spill as mine is currently focused.

kwilkin
09-06-14, 14:34
Ahhh. I'm not a smart man, but I'm sure that keeps the NOHD at 0m somehow. I'd kinda like to see how the focus is set in person just to get an idea on its capabilities, but the pics look promising. It almost looks to have the same spill as mine is currently focused.

The following pic is straight from TNVC and shows the illuminator at various distances (you can see more pics on their site: http://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atpial-c-class1-ir-laser/)

http://tnvc.com/shop/images/188319/TTT_Outdoor_DualIR.jpg

GTF425
09-07-14, 05:38
That's why I want to see it in person. I won't pass judgment until I can do a side by side comparison with my issued PEQ to see how the illuminator functions. It looks like it has a generous amount of spill, but a picture only tells a small part of the story.

I'll have my hands on it this December if it ships as scheduled. I'll be on leave, so it'll probably be January or February before I sit down and do any serious posts about these new ATPIAL-Cs. But I am very excited and will do my best to put a post together with my opinion about it as soon as possible.

drh2687
09-10-14, 17:38
Agreed. The pics look very promising, but the illuminator performance I'll have to see first-hand. Having used the issue PEQ-15 in afg, I found the ability to adjust the diameter of the illuminator to be key (granted - just my opinion). I'll be curious to see if it's in a 'sweet spot'.

taliv
09-13-14, 22:43
it should function just like your issued PEQ at that focus setting. that means it will have the advantage of battery life vs the 300-600mW LEDs but be worse than useless for long range work.