View Full Version : How To Answer Questions From Your Dr. About Guns
"Do I own any guns? Oh my dear Lord, NO!! I'm a pacifist. I believe violence always makes problems worse!" :rolleyes:
. . . . or something to that effect. :secret:
NOT:
"No comment."
"I'd prefer not to answer."
"That's personal."
and under zero circumstances: "Yes"
Correct, I'm saying I'm going to lie. Pleading the 5th, to many people, equates to an admission of guilt.
Thoughts . . . ?
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-17-13, 08:39
"Do I have any guns at home? No, I brought it with me!"
I also have blunt objects, scissors, knifes and lightening happens every once in a while.
Just ask him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. If we're going to ask personal questions that are none of each others business, might as well make him uncomfortable too.
montanadave
01-17-13, 09:04
Just ask him what his wife's favorite sexual position is.
Or, better yet, tell him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. :D
But that kind of puts the kibosh on inviting him to the range to do a little shooting.
Or, better yet, tell him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. :D
But that kind of puts the kibosh on inviting him to the range to do a little shooting.
Ha ha! True.
My Doc is actually a great guy and probably has more guns than most people, so I'm not too concerned about it for myself, but I feel bad for others in this newfound situation.
My old Doctor retired.:(
He used to talk shooting and gunshows with me.
If my doctor wants to play cop, then I'll treat him like a cop. I've got nothing to say. Then after a bit of silence I would tell him I am now looking for a new doctor.
brickboy240
01-17-13, 14:00
Lie to the doctor.
It is not as if that is against the law to lie to an MD.
Getting all defensive tells him you have guns.
Its not as if he is going to go to your home and check.
A simple and calm "no" without any drama and you two are on to the the next question and you can get your meds and leave. He will probably think nothing of it.
-brickboy240
Ok... why would the MD ask about guns? Is this tin foil action?
Doc Safari
01-17-13, 14:14
Ok... why would the MD ask about guns? Is this tin foil action?
You didn't read the 23 executive orders--?
One of the local business owners here visited the doctor just this morning and the doctor asked him if he owned any guns, according to him. He told the doctor it was none of his business.
What would I say if the doctor asked me?
I'd say, "Do you have any nude pictures of your wife?"
When he says, "No", I'll say, "Do you want to buy some?"
:jester:
My DR will not we talk about shooting all the time he is a CCW and shoots in Matches when he can
You didn't read the 23 executive orders--?
No. I didn't know the weasel had finalized anything...
I heard mention of him wanting people to report nut cases, etc.
There are all kinds of doctors. In my particular specialty this topic would almost never come up unless I was dealing with a gunshot victim directly. However if the past is any guide look for pediatricians and psychiatrists to really jump on this opportunity to ask their patients if they have firearms at home. More than any others, those two specialties have always felt that there should be no firearms in the home.
As far as other primary care physicians go, it's really going to depend on their own personal beliefs whether or not they ask you. Most of the primaries that I know and work with probably have more guns than their patients do and I don't see them really looking to ask their patients what they have going on at home with regards to firearms.
"Que?"
Exactly! Get medical care in Mexico! :D
It just hit me, this is another step towards registration.
There's a huge push in the medical field for records to not only go electronic, but for them to be nationally (and globally) accessible.
This is paving the way for new forms to be created for doctors that list whether or not a patient has guns. These go into a database... along with your social, your work info, your home address... de-facto gun registration. Then, it's simply a matter of running a database query, for example: "SELECT ALL FROM PATIENTS WHERE GUNS = TRUE"
Doctors have a requirement to log/record all of the info of a medical nature from from their patients. Obama just made guns information of a medical nature.
This is not tin-foil hat crap - I work as a server-side developer. I build programs that do this stuff all day long.
It just hit me, this is another step towards registration.
There's a huge push in the medical field for records to not only go electronic, but for them to be nationally (and globally) accessible.
This is paving the way for new forms to be created for doctors that list whether or not a patient has guns. These go into a database... along with your social, your work info, your home address... de-facto gun registration. Then, it's simply a matter of running a database query, for example: "SELECT ALL FROM PATIENTS WHERE GUNS = TRUE"
This is not tin-foil hat crap - I work as a server-side developer. I build programs that do this stuff all day long.
That JUST hit you?
He'll, that was the FIRST thing I thought about it.
"Do I own any guns? Oh my dear Lord, NO!! I'm a pacifist. I believe violence always makes problems worse!" :rolleyes:
. . . . or something to that effect. :secret:
NOT:
"No comment."
"I'd prefer not to answer."
"That's personal."
and under zero circumstances: "Yes"
Correct, I'm saying I'm going to lie. Pleading the 5th, to many people, equates to an admission of guilt.
Thoughts . . . ?
I've never had a Doctor ask me that question, but I would answer with "What does that have to do with why I'm here?" Then pause for a moment and say "Maybe we should get to that now."
Btw, sorry you're in New York.
Can I ask to look at whatever forms they're filling out?
Btw, sorry you're in New York.
Thanks. It is what it is. I'm moving in a couple years.
Tin foil aside, you do not want to get in an argument, and you do not want your doctor knowing or writing down anything about you having a gun.
Once that goes on your chart, it will never come off.
I've been fortunate as the only gun related question my doctor ever asked was my opinion on what would be a good one for him to buy.
brickboy240
01-17-13, 15:35
And you can bet that if you get defensive or ask "why do you need to know?" or get cocky...he will probably mark you down as a yes.
Play it cool and lie like Clinton...smooth and without drama.
-brickboy240
In my particular specialty, surgery, such a question would rarely if ever come up. I have never had any person or organization suggest to me that this is a question I should be asking as part of a routine history, nor would I ever do so even if it was suggested. Likewise, I don't see any of my various primary care colleagues being concerned about it.
When such data is included in the medical record, that record still remains between my patient and me and I can't release it to anyone, including any law enforcement organization, without the patient's permission or a specific court order. There's no other form to fill out. Just the medical record.
Having said that, it is true that various organizations such as the Federal government (such as Medicare or Medicaid) provide incentives (so far) for asking such "screening" questions and recording them. This includes asking about such things as smoking or other health risk behaviors. Periodic audits can occur to see if such things are being asked a reasonable percentage of the time and that data is tracked as "quality assurance" data. Although it's only a carrot at the present time, I can see the stick being applied at some point in the future. There is nothing that mandates asking patients about guns in the home. Yet.
If your doctor asks about guns in the home, just decline to answer. Or lie. I have no problem with that.
The government has a substantial interest in promoting the use of an "electronic health record" and provides the same carrot/stick approach relative to its implementation. This is the first year of benchmarking the implemenation of such EHR's (google "Meaningful Use") and my "incentive" payment from the Feds for meeting that benchmark this year is $12,000. My take on their "interest" in broad application of an EHR is that it's an avenue for them to track health data. I believe their interest in this health data relates to a fundamental belief that the government should definitely be interested in something as important (and as expensive) as the delivery of health care.
I've seen wild speculation on the subject of doctors and guns. People seem to think that the doctor will ask about guns in the home, then immediately fill out a form and send it to the police. That ain't happening. Yet.
If your doctor asks about guns in the home and you don't want to answer, then decline to answer. Or lie. That's what I would do.
NoveskeFan
01-17-13, 15:49
Talked with my wife about it last night. "Just say no", and I reminded her to not talk to anyone about what we have.
brickboy240
01-17-13, 15:55
Unfortunately, that is probably the best policy on everything gun related from now on.
Keep what you own on the down low. No photos of you and black rifles on Facebook or Instagram, no gun decals on the cars, no telling co-workers about what guns you own (unless you know them well and they too are enthusiasts).
...and tell the doctor "no" if they ask and instruct family members to do the same.
Sadly...this is the safe way we might have to play it from now on.
In the past it was just sporadic instances of this happening by family doctors and pediatricians, and I hear, psychs. And it may or may not have gone onto the patient record and was generally understood that any sharing of info would not be personally identifiable, just stats with MA or whatever organization doing the study. But mostly for the specific doctor's own reference.
What has ratcheted up the concern level are several of the items in Obama's "executive Actions" list that refer to "clarify it is OK for physicians to ask about gun ownership" along with "encouraging sharing of medical information with other care providers and law enforcement agencies and background check systems."
Basically the WH is encouraging the widespread sharing of personally identifiable medical information throughout the medical field as well as with law enforcement. It DOES NOT MANDATE such sharing, but it certainly ENCOURAGES it and more insidiously, it gives WH COVER to any doctor who takes it upon himself to collect and distribute such personal information.
You can bet a doctor that shares gun owner information will not be prosecuted in the same manner or degree as someone who distributes AIDS or STD related behavioral or object possession personal information. What would happen if a doctor made easily available personal information on ownership of needle ownership, anal sex toy/lube ownership, steam bath ownership, etc? Correct, none of these possessions indicates a person actually did engage in AIDS or STD activities, but neither does gun ownership mean that a person engaged in violence on another person.
Or, better yet, tell him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. :D
But that kind of puts the kibosh on inviting him to the range to do a little shooting.
You might want to reconsider that response if you're going to have your prostrate checked! Just saying. :laugh:
Practical advice aside, I'd like to point out how ****ing sad it is that we have grown adults having to practice plausible denial regarding gun ownership to a doctor who provides a medical service that we pay for.
It is as absurd as having to answer "Are you now or have you ever been a communist" to get your happy meal at the drive through window.
That it has actually come to THIS.
Doc Safari
01-17-13, 16:38
Practical advice aside, I'd like to point out how ****ing sad it is that we have grown adults having to practice plausible denial regarding gun ownership to a doctor who provides a medical service that we pay for.
It is as absurd as having to answer "Are you now or have you ever been a communist" to get your happy meal at the drive through window.
That it has actually come to THIS.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." We are in a brave new world. You have to regard any authority figure as in effect working for Stasi, or the KGB, Gestapo, whatever your flavor might be.
Don't like lying to your doctor? Wait until they are getting your own children to rat you out and you have to hide your gun ownership from them.
My wife laughed out loud when I asked if she would comply. All of the MD's in her practice are pro-2A. Hunted with several.
theblackknight
01-17-13, 16:56
"Not applicable"
Notice the neutral and non confrontation tone to that.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
My wife laughed out loud when I asked if she would comply. All of the MD's in her practice are pro-2A. Hunted with several.
Here too. I suspect that there are enough AR15's in our group to equip at least a squad of infantry.
Even the ones that voted for Obama completely reject his gun agenda.
And I'm absolutely confident that there isn't a doctor around here that would start asking gun questions of his/her patients just because Obama requested that they do so.
/
Ok... why would the MD ask about guns? Is this tin foil action?
my wife just went to the docs a few weeks ago with our kid (4 year old) here in PHX and she was asked if we had guns in our home !
he had it on a laptop and was going down asking questions and checking them off
do you smoke ?
do you have a dog ?
do you have guns ?
that kinda thing
Moose-Knuckle
01-17-13, 17:34
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/admitnothing.jpg
Edit to add:
As my wife and I were rehearsing what to say to physicians and their staff during future doctors’ visits she told me about what happened to a colleague of hers last week. So the guy goes with his wife to take their two kiddos who have the flu to their pediatrician. While at the doctor’s office the nurse asked the husband to go down the hall and get a cup of ice. When he came back the nurse left the room and his wife said; “Do you know what that nurse asked me when you left the room? She asked me if you abuse me!” When they confronted the office staff as to why the wife was asked if she was abused by her husband when they brought their children in for the flu the office staff replied “its state law”.
my wife just went to the docs a few weeks ago with our kid (4 year old) here in PHX and she was asked if we had guns in our home !
he had it on a laptop and was going down asking questions and checking them off
do you smoke ?
do you have a dog ?
do you have guns ?
that kinda thing
Holy cow!! What kind of doctor was that?
And you can bet that if you get defensive or ask "why do you need to know?" or get cocky...he will probably mark you down as a yes.
Play it cool and lie like Clinton...smooth and without drama.
-brickboy240
Yeah right. Asking my Doctor to wear a blue dress might lead to more trouble that just saying I have guns!:D
TurretGunner
01-17-13, 17:56
This is simple.
"Oh i thought we were asking personal questions..."
My GP is a gun owner, thou not a serious shooter. We tend to shoot the schit about shooting and related whenever I go in. Nurse Betty was upset last time, but only because he was behind and we goofed off too long.
buckshot1220
01-17-13, 20:05
Dr.-"Do you own any guns?"
Me-"Oh my God, do they carry the flu!?!?!?!?":confused:
In my particular specialty, surgery, such a question would rarely if ever come up. I have never had any person or organization suggest to me that this is a question I should be asking as part of a routine history, nor would I ever do so even if it was suggested. Likewise, I don't see any of my various primary care colleagues being concerned about it.
When such data is included in the medical record, that record still remains between my patient and me and I can't release it to anyone, including any law enforcement organization, without the patient's permission or a specific court order. There's no other form to fill out. Just the medical record.
Having said that, it is true that various organizations such as the Federal government (such as Medicare or Medicaid) provide incentives (so far) for asking such "screening" questions and recording them. This includes asking about such things as smoking or other health risk behaviors. Periodic audits can occur to see if such things are being asked a reasonable percentage of the time and that data is tracked as "quality assurance" data. Although it's only a carrot at the present time, I can see the stick being applied at some point in the future. There is nothing that mandates asking patients about guns in the home. Yet.
If your doctor asks about guns in the home, just decline to answer. Or lie. I have no problem with that.
The government has a substantial interest in promoting the use of an "electronic health record" and provides the same carrot/stick approach relative to its implementation. This is the first year of benchmarking the implemenation of such EHR's (google "Meaningful Use") and my "incentive" payment from the Feds for meeting that benchmark this year is $12,000. My take on their "interest" in broad application of an EHR is that it's an avenue for them to track health data. I believe their interest in this health data relates to a fundamental belief that the government should definitely be interested in something as important (and as expensive) as the delivery of health care.
I've seen wild speculation on the subject of doctors and guns. People seem to think that the doctor will ask about guns in the home, then immediately fill out a form and send it to the police. That ain't happening. Yet.
If your doctor asks about guns in the home and you don't want to answer, then decline to answer. Or lie. That's what I would do.
My wife's practice doesn't accept Medicare or Medicaid. Makes life much easier.
I had to go to our local gov't funded clinic last year for my commercial driving physical. I was asked if there were guns in the house along with a bunch of other "health risk" questions. I just put n/a in the box and moved on.
Sent from my iPhone on tapatalk
Holy cow!! What kind of doctor was that?
I am thinking a lefty :)
it was our Pediatrician we have been going to for years and we were never asked that before :)
was for a routine visit
my wife just said NO :)
Last year the nurse in our pediatricians office asked the question. I left with the kids, went to the docs office and said flat out they had no business asking me that.
I think next time the first question asked that is not about what they are in for is going to be a why does that matter ? right off the bat :)
I hate guns, I hate dogs ,I think doctors are lazy ass drug pushing killers. That is what you say you don'y have to answer. And yes it is the truth there are guns I hate.
There are all kinds of doctors. In my particular specialty this topic would almost never come up unless I was dealing with a gunshot victim directly. However if the past is any guide look for pediatricians and psychiatrists to really jump on this opportunity to ask their patients if they have firearms at home. More than any others, those two specialties have always felt that there should be no firearms in the home.
As far as other primary care physicians go, it's really going to depend on their own personal beliefs whether or not they ask you. Most of the primaries that I know and work with probably have more guns than their patients do and I don't see them really looking to ask their patients what they have going on at home with regards to firearms.
For what it's worth you're right, the AAP is already all over this...and yes, it is a question that the AAP recommends be asked as part of a routine history
My wife, a pediatrician, with a CHP (and scary assault rifles), got into a pissing match on an AAP message board about this tonight, and got emails from several people telling her she scared them and should not be allowed to practice medicine
She wouldn't let me respond, much to my dismay
PdxMotoxer
01-18-13, 02:17
When it comes to health concerns i dont and wont lie to my Doc
I've had him for over 10 years and very happy with him.
I also know he loves to bird hunt so if he out of the blue asks if i own any guns.. i'll know its NOT him asking.
And many are correct that is a PERSONAL question and a need to know
and he just doesnt need to know.
So i would have to smile and say NO and leave it at that.
if i wanted to be a smart-ass i could say if i did i had to sell them to afford you and what you charge. lol
just a simple NO.. no need for story or anything else.
(i HATE lying!! but as said in this thread you even joke and they write it down.. that's in your file FOREVER)
My wife's practice doesn't accept Medicare or Medicaid. Makes life much easier.
I suspect that not accepting Medicare or Medicaid will become more and more common over the coming years. No question that it would make life easier for doctors.
I had to go to our local gov't funded clinic last year for my commercial driving physical. I was asked if there were guns in the house along with a bunch of other "health risk" questions. I just put n/a in the box and moved on.
Sent from my iPhone on tapatalk
they asked the same when i got My DOT Long form I too put NA
However if the past is any guide look for pediatricians... More than any others, those two specialties have always felt that there should be no firearms in the home.
I tell my kids' docs: "None (firearms) that you know about." They check the box and move on, never give it another thought.
FYI, here are current position statements by some of the major specialty organizations regarding guns:
American College of Surgeons:
The following revised Statement on Firearm Injuries was approved in January 2013 by the Officers of the American College of Surgeons and its Board of Regents. It replaces the February 2000 statement that was developed by the Committee on Trauma and approved by the College's Board of Regents—that statement replaced an initial statement addressing firearm injuries developed in 1991.
Because violence inflicted by guns continues to be a daily event in the United States and mass casualties involving firearms threaten the health and safety of the public, the American College of Surgeons supports:
Legislation banning civilian access to assault weapons, large ammunition clips, and munitions designed for military and law enforcement agencies.
Enhancing mandatory background checks for the purchase of firearms to include gun shows and auctions.
Ensuring that health care professionals can fulfill their role in preventing firearm injuries by health screening, patient counseling, and referral to mental health services for those with behavioral medical conditions.
Developing and promoting proactive programs directed at improving safe gun storage and the teaching of non-violent conflict resolution for a culture that often glorifies guns and violence in media and gaming.
Evidence-based research on firearm injury and the creation of a national firearm injury database to inform federal health policy.
The American Academy of Pediatrics:
Firearm-related injuries and deaths can be prevented when guns are stored safely away from children and adolescents in a locked case. Because of the severe, permanent nature of gun injuries in children, the AAP supports the strongest-possible legislative and regulatory approaches to reduce the accessibility of guns to children and adolescents:
Consumer product regulations regarding child access, safety and design of guns
Child access prevention laws that enforce safe storage practices including the use of trigger locks, lock boxes, and gun safes
Regulation of the purchase of guns, including mandatory waiting periods, closure of the gun show loophole, mental health restrictions for gun purchases, and background checks
Restoration of the ban on the sale of assault weapons to the general public
American Academy of Family Practice
The Academy supports strong and robust enforcement of existing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the manufacture, sale and possession of guns. Increased efforts to enforce current laws on illegal gun trafficking should have high priority for federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies.
The American Academy of Physicians opposes private ownership of assault weapons.
The Academy strongly supports legislation restricting unsupervised access to both firearms and ammunition by children under 18 years of age.
The Academy supports efforts to evaluate the effectiveness of regulations, interventions, and strategies for preventing injuries and fatalities caused by firearms. (1995) (2011 COD)
American College of Emergency Physicians
The American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) deplores the improper use of firearms resulting in death and injury. The College supports legislative and public health efforts to prevent firearm-related injuries and deaths.
ACEP endorses efforts to:
•Aggressively enforce current laws against illegal possession, purchase, sale, or use of firearms;
•Ensure that new firearms are rendered as safe as possible through regulation similar to that used for other consumer products;
•Decrease the threat to public safety that results from the widespread availability of assault weapons and high capacity ammunition feeding devices including a ban on the sale of assault weapons and high capacity magazines;•Limit the availability of firearms to those whose ability to responsibly handle a weapon is assured;
•Encourage the creation and evaluation of community and school-based education programs targeting the prevention of firearm injuries;
•Educate the public about the risks of improperly stored firearms, especially in the home;
•Increase funding for the development, evaluation and implementation of evidence based programs and policies to reduce firearm related injury and death;
•Hold individuals legally accountable for harm resulting from unauthorized use of firearms; and
•Work with stakeholders to develop comprehensive strategies to prevent firearm injury and death.
American Psychiatric Association
The American Psychological Association expressed strong support for key components of President Obama’s plan to protect American children and communities by reducing gun violence. APA singled out for praise the president’s specific proposals to:
increase access to mental health services;
identify and refer youth and young adults in need of mental health treatment;
train more psychologists and other mental health professionals;
end the freeze on gun violence research;
require criminal background checks for all gun sales; and
ensure that health insurance plans offer mental health benefits at parity.
Ouroborous
01-18-13, 14:19
"Do I own any guns? Oh my dear Lord, NO!! I'm a pacifist. I believe violence always makes problems worse!" :rolleyes:
. . . . or something to that effect. :secret:
NOT:
"No comment."
"I'd prefer not to answer."
"That's personal."
and under zero circumstances: "Yes"
Correct, I'm saying I'm going to lie. Pleading the 5th, to many people, equates to an admission of guilt.
Thoughts . . . ?
Here's on for ya:
Guns? I'm a devout Seventh Day Adventist--we don't "believe" in guns.
My Doc was a reserve deputy for many years. He's a friend and all around good guy. If he should have to ask I'll just tell him only issued ones and leave it at that. He won't bat an eye. I actually will be surprised if Docs like him even bother to ask. He's in private practice on his own and he's the type I could see just automatically checking no and moving on.
Honestly, if my doctor asked me about guns like that, I'd find a new doctor.
Just ask him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. If we're going to ask personal questions that are none of each others business, might as well make him uncomfortable too.
Or, better yet, tell him what his wife's favorite sexual position is. :D
But that kind of puts the kibosh on inviting him to the range to do a little shooting.
That is some funny shit!
I've never had a Doctor ask me that question, but I would answer with "What does that have to do with why I'm here?" Then pause for a moment and say "Maybe we should get to that now."
Btw, sorry you're in New York.
I agree.
Can I ask to look at whatever forms they're filling out?
Of course you can. It's your paperwork.
Doctors are not required to ask any particular question as part of a medical history, nor are they ever likely to be. Some doctors are opposed to firearms in civilian hands, just like some cops, some judges, some politicians, and a substantial percentage of the US population. Their concept of the role that firearms play as a public health problem will be reflected in the way that they practice medicine. If that doesn't meet the expectations of a particular patient, both of them would be better served by that patient finding another doctor. Trust me...if he fires you or you fire him, it's unlikely to give him even a moment's pause. He's too busy.
I prefer the Iraqgunz method of asshole answers. It's none of your ****ing business!
I prefer the Iraqgunz method of asshole answers. It's none of your ****ing business!
"There's no need to be vulgar or rude, Mr. Gunz...I think maybe we would both be better served if you found a different clinic. You have 90 days to tell us where to send your medical records. Goodbye."
.
Just found out that my wife is pregger and so far in the 13 weeks and 3 visits no questions about guns. We did have a home call from a nurse with her insurance and she did ask. Without hesitation my wife responded with " ohhh no guns in our house." After the call she asked me wtf we live in the south if she believes that she is a dumbass.
Whatever way you answer the question, why not take the opportunity to represent yourself well? You may get a chuckle out of something witty, take some satisfaction in giving your provider a jab, or think you occupy some moral high ground for asserting your rights to privacy, but what are you really saying?
Think about it. Any answer about gun ownership that isn't "no" is an affirmative answer. No tinfoil there, that's just a basic interview technique.
Don't feed the antis with more gun owner buffoonery.
"There's no need to be vulgar or rude, Mr. Gunz...I think maybe we would both be better served if you found a different clinic. You have 90 days to tell us where to send your medical records. Goodbye."
.
I have to wonder if that would be legal ?
I think cause you offended a doctor and they refused you care cause you swore they would be in a bit of trouble :)
I have to wonder if that would be legal ?
I think cause you offended a doctor and they refused you care cause you swore they would be in a bit of trouble :)
Yes it would be legal.
I have to wonder if that would be legal ?
I think cause you offended a doctor and they refused you care cause you swore they would be in a bit of trouble :)
Sure it would be legal. Who would the doctor be in trouble with?
It would only be illegal (and unethical) if the doctor refused emergency care that would put the patient's life in immediate danger. Even that is a bit of a grey area (legally, not ethically).
Basically the WH is encouraging the widespread sharing of personally identifiable medical information throughout the medical field as well as with law enforcement. It DOES NOT MANDATE such sharing, but it certainly ENCOURAGES it and more insidiously, it gives WH COVER to any doctor who takes it upon himself to collect and distribute such personal information.
You can bet a doctor that shares gun owner information will not be prosecuted in the same manner or degree as someone who distributes AIDS or STD related behavioral or object possession personal information. What would happen if a doctor made easily available personal information on ownership of needle ownership, anal sex toy/lube ownership, steam bath ownership, etc? Correct, none of these possessions indicates a person actually did engage in AIDS or STD activities, but neither does gun ownership mean that a person engaged in violence on another person.
Actually, HIPPA prevents sharing of this information. In other words, Obama's EO cannot override laws that are already on the books. Hmac is correct - they will record the information in your record under the social history and it will likely never make its way onto a government form. The one instance that I do put it on a form is when I'm completing paperwork for an involuntary commitment.
FWIW, I do occasionally ask if there are firearms in the home under very limited circumstance. For example, I'll ask people with a question of suicide ideation (not all qualify for commitment), psychosis, or who might be at risk for violence. If they have them, I usually ask a family member to secure them until the situation is deescalated. I'll also ask parents who have demonstrated themselves to be retards to reinforce the need to properly secure them. However, I generally never put it in the record under this last circumstance.
Actually, HIPPA prevents sharing of this information. In other words, Obama's EO cannot override laws that are already on the books. Hmac is correct - they will record the information in your record under the social history and it will likely never make its way onto a government form.
There's nothing that I know of that even encourages a doctor to share personally identifiable data. Certainly nothing that relieves me of my legal responsibility to keep all such data absolutely private.
Just now looking at the EHR that we use (AllScripts), history building and problem list creation is all done by first identifying the problem, searching for it as a clickable entry, then clicking the check box to add it to the problem list or under social history. In doing so just now, I found such a check box titled "guns in the home".
In order for that to make it into that patient's confidential medical record, I first have to identify it as a valid problem, search for the clickable entry, then click it. Clicking that box doesn't even become an option unless it's actually searched for. It still comes down to whether or not any given doctor thinks it actually represents a problem worthy of the medical record. And that medical record does remain completely confidential. Obama's "executive action" plan addressed HIPPA regulations only insofar as it might prevent states from sharing health data (such as involuntary committment) with the Federal background check system. It does nothing to require or allow doctors to share confidential medical information. One of his other "executive actions" was aimed at clarifying that there's nothing in the ACA that prevents doctors from asking their patients about guns in the home. Duh. I suppose that came about from the Florida law (struck down in the courts) that tried to ban doctors from asking their patients about guns.
There's nothing that I know of that even encourages a doctor to share personally identifiable data. Certainly nothing that relieves me of my legal responsibility to keep all such data absolutely private.
Just now looking at the EHR that we use (AllScripts), history building and problem list creation is all done by first identifying the problem, searching for it as a clickable entry, then clicking the check box to add it to the problem list or under social history. In doing so just now, I found such a check box titled "guns in the home".
In order for that to make it into that patient's confidential medical record, I first have to identify it as a valid problem, search for the clickable entry, then click it. Clicking that box doesn't even become an option unless it's actually searched for. It still comes down to whether or not any given doctor thinks it actually represents a problem worthy of the medical record. And that medical record does remain completely confidential. Obama's "executive action" plan addressed HIPPA regulations only insofar as it might prevent states from sharing health data (such as involuntary committment) with the Federal background check system. It does nothing to require or allow doctors to share confidential medical information. One of his other "executive actions" was aimed at clarifying that there's nothing in the ACA that prevents doctors from asking their patients about guns in the home. Duh. I suppose that came about from the Florida law (struck down in the courts) that tried to ban doctors from asking their patients about guns.
Excellent post - thanks for bringing some clarity on the HIPPA issue.
SeriousStudent
01-19-13, 13:57
The last time I was in my doctor's office, he asked if I knew where he could score some M&P Shield 9mm mags at a reasonable price.
Then we talked about his new mountain bike.
He told me to ease back on the BBQ and chicken fried steak. I paid cash, and then left.
Problem solved, problem staying solved. Vote with your wallet.
The last time I was in my doctor's office, he asked if I knew where he could score some M&P Shield 9mm mags at a reasonable price.
Then we talked about his new mountain bike.
He told me to ease back on the BBQ and chicken fried steak. I paid cash, and then left.
Problem solved, problem staying solved. Vote with your wallet.
Sounds like a cool doc. I used to talk guns with my dentist and one of the PA's I used to see. People are people.
I prefer the Iraqgunz method of asshole answers. It's none of your ****ing business!
Great minds think a like.
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"Do I own any guns? Oh my dear Lord, NO!! I'm a pacifist. I believe violence always makes problems worse!" :rolleyes:
. . . . or something to that effect. :secret:
NOT:
"No comment."
"I'd prefer not to answer."
"That's personal."
and under zero circumstances: "Yes"
Correct, I'm saying I'm going to lie. Pleading the 5th, to many people, equates to an admission of guilt.
Thoughts . . . ?
J-Dub you have been warned already. I highly suggest you go get some fresh air.
Men: Questions will be asked by the Proctologist when his finger is in your ass. Wrong answer? He makes a fist. Not seeing the Proc.? No prob. When the MD has your balls is his/her hand, the questions begin. Not going to be a happy ending.
Ladies: Speculum inserted, questions begin.
No one read the fine print.
Sure it would be legal. Who would the doctor be in trouble with?
It would only be illegal (and unethical) if the doctor refused emergency care that would put the patient's life in immediate danger. Even that is a bit of a grey area (legally, not ethically).
Exactly.
Not only that, but as much as we want to tell them off, that it's none of their ****ing business, that plays right into the wheelhouse of the physician or other LIP having to report someone they believe is a potential threat.
The calm, controlled, Clintonian answer is best. No need to raise any red flags, or come across as nasty, no matter how much the questions piss you off or how intrusive the questions may be.
Men: Questions will be asked by the Proctologist when his finger is in your ass. Wrong answer? He makes a fist. Not seeing the Proc.? No prob. When the MD has your balls is his/her hand, the questions begin. Not going to be a happy ending.
Ladies: Speculum inserted, questions begin.
No one read the fine print.
DUDE! :jester: I needed that, this was starting to get way to serious.
Exactly.
Not only that, but as much as we want to tell them off, that it's none of their ****ing business, that plays right into the wheelhouse of the physician or other LIP having to report someone they believe is a potential threat.
The calm, controlled, Clintonian answer is best. No need to raise any red flags, or come across as nasty, no matter how much the questions piss you off or how intrusive the questions may be.
Yeah...uh...as we've been discussing, the doctor can't report you to anyone whether you piss him off or not.
Yeah...uh...as we've been discussing, the doctor can't report you to anyone whether you piss him off or not.
You know full well that if a psychiatrist or other mental health practitioner wants to, they can have you committed on a 72 hour stay for observation and evaluation. Perhaps this is not common throughout all the states.
Mouthing off to them accomplishes nothing.
You know full well that if a psychiatrist or other mental health practitioner wants to, they can have you committed on a 72 hour stay for observation and evaluation. Perhaps this is not common throughout all the states.
Mouthing off to them accomplishes nothing.
It's much harder in some states than others. It should be hard.
It's much harder in some states than others. It should be hard.
I agree completely. In PA you can also have someone committed even if you're not a mental health practitioner.
It's called a "302", involuntary psychiatric eval. (Voluntary is a "201")
You can call the police, tell them you think someone is a danger to themselves or someone else, and if the police accept your story, they will then take the person to the nearest hospital with a behavioral health department.
A family member could call about another family member. Which in some cases is good, but yes, it can be abused.
You know full well that if a psychiatrist or other mental health practitioner wants to, they can have you committed on a 72 hour stay for observation and evaluation. Perhaps this is not common throughout all the states.
Mouthing off to them accomplishes nothing.
Mouthing off or being rude or disrespectful won't get you a 72 hour hold either. Just fired as a patient.
I agree completely. In PA you can also have someone committed even if you're not a mental health practitioner.
It's called a "302", involuntary psychiatric eval. (Voluntary is a "201")
You can call the police, tell them you think someone is a danger to themselves or someone else, and if the police accept your story, they will then take the person to the nearest hospital with a behavioral health department.
A family member could call about another family member. Which in some cases is good, but yes, it can be abused.
That is scary. It is a royal PITA here in VT and I'm good with that! Doesn't mean I don't bitch while I'm sitting with or on someone waiting for the process to work its way out.
I just think about personal security. My neighbors don't know about my stance on the 2nd Amendment or what I have whether it be firearms, water supply, food supply, communications etc. I figure talking too much gets you noticed, be it the government, neighbors, health care professionals, teachers, etc. I call it my own personal "On a need to know basis". Be polite, be alert, be smart, but have a plan to ditch everyone who is a pain in your ass!
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