I just got an interesting phone call.

[jaydoc1]

A former employee of mine just called. She worked for me for about 4 years during which time she was in the army reserve. She had been active duty before coming to work for us. During her time with us she was deployed to Afghanistan for around a year and a half out of her four years of employment. Her husband was in the special forces and spent most of his time in Afghanistan as well. I only met him two or three times but always found him to be a very entertaining and interesting guy to talk to. Very approachable and a wealth of knowledge about firearms.

That was about three years ago. I haven't really seen them since except for once at a Halloween party about two years ago.

Now you would figure that this gal would be fairly dialed in in terms of civilian ownership of firearms, conservative, etc... but here's the thing. She is actually quite the liberal. She spent most of her life as an army brat in Europe and has quite a European outlook when it comes to politics. The army was a way to pay for her education but she did serve overseas without protest when they asked her to actually do some work for her money. Obviously she and her husband don't see exactly eye to eye when it comes to politics but they appear to have a great marriage even though it is often a long distance one.

Now with all the discussions that have been taking place here on M4C, I have quietly been collecting and posting the various useful, straightforward, and not overbearing links, news articles, and quotes from the great men of history that various members here have been sharing. A large number of them I have been posting to Facebook without much discussion as most of the articles are very self-explanatory and I would much prefer the people that click on them develop their own opinions rather than reading them after having them colored by my comments. The articles have ranged from simple discussions of the constitution and the bill of rights to articles about what an AR-15 actually is, myths about firearms, etc... One comment that I did make was in explaining why need has no place in a discussion about a right. In other words, asking why someone NEEDS an AR isn't germaine to any conversation. It is our god-given right to have one simply because we want to.

Fast forward to about 15 minutes ago when I received a phone call from my former employee. She called to thank me both for herself and her husband. It seems that they have been having heated discussions about why he needs to have AR-15s at home (really? the wife of a special forces member questioning this?) Well during this time she has been reading the articles I have been sharing on Facebook and when she finally read my discussion of why rights don't have a requirement of need associated with them she said a switch finally clicked in her head and she got it all of a sudden.

While I was gratified to hear that my discussions had swayed at least one person, at the same time I sort of sat in disbelief after the call. Here is the wife of a special forces member who herself has been deployed several times as a medic and she still didn't see why semi-automatic rifles with standard magazines should be owned by civilians. Even her husband when it came to personal firearms! I blame her European upbringing but it is really no different than the urban mindset of most anti-gunners.

Why do I share this story? Mostly to show that with level-headed discussion with reasonable people it actually is possible to get them to see the truth of this pro/anti-gun argument. Also, however, it is to illustrate how deeply seeded the feeling is that there isn't a good reason for Americans to own these firearms. Even in the people you'd least likely expect it from.

[lethal dose]

Great to hear! It's odd... I know a few left leaning 03xx MOS guys from/in the corps.

[samuse]

I just say:

"it's the Bill of Rights... Not a Bill of Shit that this administration thinks I need"

[opmike]

What, you mean you didn't just call her a libtard and dismiss her out if hand?

I've said it before: if we can stop generalizing and categorizing EVERY liberal as a Democrat, communist, sleeper agent intent on overthrowing the US government, we might get more of the to the ranges and into the gun shops. It's not like every conservative wants to be defined by Alex Jones or Yeager. Human beings are more complex than some binary political system. It's a spectrum.

Many of the people who harbor an irrational hatred or fear of guns are ignorant and simply fear the unknown. Most people I've taken to the range with me, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, had a big grin the first time they pulled the trigger.

There's lots of Feinsteins and Cuomos crawling the Earth, but they certainly don't speak for them all.

[chuckman]

A buddy of mine was in SF. When I went to Bragg to visit a few years back, he had a teammate on his ODA that was a bit, um, nutty-left...the whole group-hug/kumbaya, etc. I didn't question him re: opinion on 2A or gun ownership, but he really loved his role on SF of being able to bridge nations and be all one-world, dig wells, build schools, etc. (We did talk extensively about many issues, over several beers, which further validated his bona-findes as a card-carrying Dem). He seemed a decent enough chap. It takes all kinds, I suppose.

[Business_Casual]

Gasp! Are there conservatives that act in movies, too?

bc

[MountainRaven]

I know a certain Air Force officer who is (was?) much the same way. She volunteered to go to Afghanistan and Iraq, though. Very liberal. Shortly after the shooting in Connecticut we had a discussion on Facebook about gun control and gun safety.

I should say, going into this, that she was at least partially pro-Second Amendment beforehand: She believes in having weapons to protect oneself and intends to soon acquire a concealed weapons permit, now that she's out of the Air Force.

Anyway. She brought up a number of good points, all founded more or less in ignorance, and I calmly and rationally explained why they were wrong or impractical. In the end, I'm pretty sure we were on the same page, but she still didn't like 30-round magazines for the AR-15: They're heavy.

But what can I say? She's stubborn, competitive, and a princess to boot. She couldn't let me win everything. :D

[tb-av]

Why do I share this story? Mostly to show that with level-headed discussion with reasonable people it actually is possible to get them to see the truth of this pro/anti-gun argument. Also, however, it is to illustrate how deeply seeded the feeling is that there isn't a good reason for Americans to own these firearms. Even in the people you'd least likely expect it from.

Don't forget that she just happened to be one that was pretty much forced to have the conversation due to her husband. The vast majority don't have that situation bonding them to the issue long enough to really reach inside for the basic truths.

Let's hope she has lots of girl friends and gets through to them. Women are the key to our success. Mothers especially. They need to have that switch click. When they do the whole family unit will begin to move in that direction.

The Liberals are trying to brainwash children and have them(Liberals) guide the new family. They want to be the Mother to the children and thus create a new non-gun friendly Parent that has no use for 2A.



In other words, asking why someone NEEDS an AR isn't germaine to any conversation. It is our god-given right to have one simply because we want to.

Someone needs to shut Joe Biden down with that fact as well. Heard him on a sound clip yesterday where he is saying... come on guys if you need 12 rounds that means you already missed the deer 11 times, maybe hunting is not your sport, just give up.

Our side, the 2A side really needs to dispel this hunting myth because they are driving it home. "If the glove doesn't fir you must acquit" , "If you need more than 10 rounds to hunt you need to find a new sport"

It's not about needs nor hunting, it's about a God given RIGHT and we have to get that understood by the Wives, Mothers and Children of America ASAP.

.... and thanks for doing what you do.... I'm glad you are getting through to some people.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

If you would sir post the argument, in regards to why we need it, so I may extract from it for my fight here, I have a few I have not reached.

My best friend is a dem and a SFC, with over 15 years service. He owns guns, and I am still shocked at some of his beliefs. He did sign our petitions and such but has yet to openly state his position.

[oldtexan]

To the OP,

That's great that the lady in question had an open mind and changed it.

My wife was vaguely anti-gun before we met. She is a native small-town/rural Texan, but didn't grow up in a shooting family, and had very little first-hand exposure to guns and shooting before we met. She told me that her exposure to me helped her to see that gun owners aren't the stereotypes that are portrayed in the media. Changing peoples' minds about the 2d Amendment, or most things for that matter, takes time and is best done IMO in the context of a close relationship of trust.

I spent over 20 years on active duty, much of that in Texas. I also spent about five more years as a defense contractor, so I have spent a good bit of my life around soldiers. There is a regional quality about the Army, or at least there was when I served, so that at Fort Hood, for example, one could expect a high proportion of people stationed there to be native Texans. (For a while it seemed to me that half the Officer Corps had graduated from Texas A&M.) During that time, I met a lot of my fellow soldiers, both enlisted soldiers and commissioned officers, who were strong proponents of our Second Amendment rights.

I also met many soldiers of all ranks who saw firearms in the hands of civilians as a problem, or at best, an inconvenience.

I remember one instance at Fort Hood in which the Commanding General of 4th Infantry Division issued an order to his division that required all its personnel to immediately register with the Provost Marshal all privately owned weapons, even if those weapons were stored in private homes, off post and never were brought onto post. This was a departure from previous practice that required only weapons which were going to be brought onto post to be registered. I don't recall the proximate cause/excuse for this order. Publicly stated opinion from various Staff Judge Advocate (SJA) lawyers was that the CG had this authority. The order was quickly seen as politically difficult and was rescinded.

I think it's a mistake to assume that all, or perhaps even most, people in the military are deeply committed to preserving our rights.

[RogerinTPA]

I think that is the biggest problem with pro 2a talking heads...to convey that the 2nd Amendment merely acknowledges those rights. Even without it, we still have the God given inalienable right to keep and bare arms. Needs have nothing to do with it.

As far as liberals are concerned, it's always been a, "I don't like it, so YOU shouldn't HAVE it", or "I need it MORE than you because I'm MORE important, but YOU can't have it", elitist argument.