Bushmaster specific question:

[Fozzy_Bear]

Hi all.

Here's the background:
I'm new to the Black-Rifle culture (but not to firearms in general), and I am in the final stages of putting together my first Black Rifle.

I recently bought a complete upper assembly from somebody who bought a complete bushmaster and was changing his upper.

Anyway, I know there are supressors, flash hiders, compensators, and muzzle brakes (and maybe even more; or maybe I'm using multiple names for the same thing)... I will certainly be able to tell the difference once I've had a bit more time looking around and lurking (here and other places) but until then... i am wondering what it is that I have.

I asked the previous owner and the responce I got was ""I dunno exactly, It's what ever bushmaster sells on their rifles"" (not something that instills a lot of confidence in the Previous Owner... but he does seem compitent enough to know what "unfired Bushmaster" means and being a mechanical designer by trade, I am confident that what I bought was what was advertised)... but I digress...


Here's my question:
Does the PO's statement make since to somebody who is familiar with Bushmaster products? If so, what type of equipment is on my barel? If a general discription would help, it is solid on the bottom and has 4 (IIRC) thin-oval, longitudinal cuts along the top half.

Obviously an answer to my direct question would be great, but if anybody has a link to a primer (of better yet a comparison amongst the options) that would be appriciated as well.


thanks.

[M4builder]

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp

[Fozzy_Bear]

For those who might come across this question in a search in the future:

apparently this is it.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_parts_muzzles_suppressors.asp#9349051

--

A2 Bird Cage Flash Suppressor

Standard 5 Slot Design for threaded muzzles (1/2” x 28 T.p.I.) without a bottom slot so it won't create a dust signature when firing from the prone position.

[markm]

without a bottom slot so it won't create a dust signature when firing from the prone position.

I know it says that in the description, but I wonder if that's what the intention really is/was.

Anyone who has ever shot an AR in the dust/dirt in any position shorter than standing can tell you that it doesn't work.

I wonder if the design wasn't actually for quicker follow up shots due to a compensating effect. :confused:

[Shihan]

I know it says that in the description, but I wonder if that's what the intention really is/was.

Anyone who has ever shot an AR in the dust/dirt in any position shorter than standing can tell you that it doesn't work.

I wonder if the design wasn't actually for quicker follow up shots due to a compensating effect. :confused:

I think your probably right. Or maybe alittle of both.

[Fozzy_Bear]

neet thought...

Has anybody ever fired back-to back shots with/without one to see if it had any perceivable affects?

.

[wezalsgunsupply]

Hey, that A2 hider is fine. But. Spend 30 bucks on a Yankee Hill and you will be very happy with it. Thats a true flash hider.

[Heavy Metal]

I like the Vltor device.

[wezalsgunsupply]

The Vltor is good. There are a lot of good quality hiders out there for less than 60 bucks Read up on them before you pick. Even better if you can see them in action. Research is the key to any part for your rifle

[Fozzy_Bear]

Hey, that A2 hider is fine. But. Spend 30 bucks on a Yankee Hill and you will be very happy with it. Thats a true flash hider.

Actually, I have no use for a flash hider. As I said, I was just wondering what was on the barrel I bought.

I don't have a job where I rely on my rifle (even IF tSHTF, I'll probably be using a remmy 870 to defend my family... For numerous reasons) and old soda cans aren't likely to start diving for cover if they catch a flash from my muzzle :)

A muzzle brake (if I'm using the right term.. the device that reduces kick-up and makes follow-on shots quicker) might be something I buy down the road (maybe... It's WAY down on the priority list), but as far as flash hiders go, if it's on there now, it can stay until I find something I actually want. But for the application I've bought this particular firearm for, I'm not going to spend money beacuse of the performance of a flash hider.

Don't get me wrong though... I appriciate any info on this that I can get. So that being said; just for my education:

What do you mean TRUE flash hider? Is the A2 simply not as good as the YH unit you mentioned, or are you saying it is totaly useless?

Thanks

.

[tkoglman]

(even IF tSHTF, I'll probably be using a remmy 870 to defend my family... For numerous reasons)

Do a little more lurking/searching regarding 5.56mm carbines for home defense versus shotguns and you may be surprised by what you find out.

If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.

[markm]

If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.


Indeed. The bird gun falls short of the Carbine's abilities in almost every aspect.

[Fozzy_Bear]

...
If you have an open mind, I think it will end up being changed.

Oh, I've got an open mind... and I'm not saying that a shotgun the the best for everyone(or even most people). In my particular case, I think it's the right way to go... But that's not the topic I'm interested in here. This is my barrel-attachment thread.

I don't have the footing to wander into THAT religious war... quite yet.

[Lumpy196]

(even IF tSHTF, I'll probably be using a remmy 870 to defend my family... For numerous reasons)



Pray that the threat never gets between you and your family or worse yet gets ahold of one of them while you're holding your scatter-gun.


Life is not a square range with a paper target standing in the open 15yards from you.

[Fozzy_Bear]

Pray that the threat never gets between you and your family or worse yet gets ahold of one of them while you're holding your scatter-gun.


Life is not a square range with a paper target standing in the open 15yards from you.

As I said... I didn't really want to turn this thread into that discussion, but since you insist;

You are making a wrong assumption.

You are assumeing that I am more accurate with a rifle than I am with my shotgun. - Probably because YOU happen to be more accurate with a rifle than a shotgun. But that has no bearing.

Or maybe beacuse you have seen an impressive looking chart somwhere that talks about "penetration" in some scientific terms. I spent years as a mechanical designer for the military, and I assure you, I am very aware of the physics involved. gyroscopic stability, multiple density fluid dynamics, fragmentation design of the modern 5.56 bullet, etc. I didn't want to come here and drop a load of techno-babble, but if it makes you feel beter to know that I have actually done my homework... I have.

Here's the thing:
I have fired exactly 58 rounds out of my (or any) Black Rifle. All of them this past weekend.

(here is THAT story, BTW: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=12433 )


Would YOU trust your family's defence to that level of experience?

However, I myself can put a 12 ga slug anywhere I want it (within 17 milimeters plus or minus) inside a 10 meter radius and my home has no line-of-sight longer than 10 meters. And I can do so quickly, and under pressure. (Yes, I know that. No, I will not tell that story here.)

Dude... Whatever side of the whole (which XXX should I use) argument you are on, the answer is ALWAYS, "Use whatever YOU are most accurate with"

I never said that a shotgun is the best tool for that job. I never said that I will always only use a shotgun. and I certainly never said YOU should use a shotgun.

I said that if tSHTF, I would be using my 870.





Now,
Has anybody ever fired a rifle with and with out an A2 flash-hider to see if it has any muzzle-brake affects?

.

[markm]

If you are more accurate with a slug then you need practice on the carbine... Seriously.

No offense brother... but you're not the first guy to sight his engineering background (or other various education/experience) when backing up your basis for poor weapon selection. It's a common tactic on TOS.

The slug might be acceptable if you live alone. But those big hunks of smashed slug are going to be much more dangerous to others in your home after they leave the threats body; as opposed to fragments of 5.56 which are more unlikely to exit the threats body anyway.

Additionally, threats tend to move around rather than stand there and let you shoot at them. Thus, misses are a real possibilty in the stress of a real shooting. Follow up shots with a shotgun are much slower. Flash is huge. Ammo capacity is low. Recoil is high. Have you ever seen someone in class do that "can't miss fast enough" thing? It could happen to any one of us under the right circumstances. (I'd rather recover from that train wreck with 20 more rounds in my mag instead of fumbling to load more slugs into my shotgun)

A firefight can actually spill out of your house and into the street. The 10 meter maximum shot range is not a good baseline in my opinion.

And NO. There is no noticeable diff in recoil from my experience by pulling the A2 off of the barrel. (I tried it with an 11.5" SBR for flash suppression research)

Cheers, buddy. We're just trying to get you to see the light. :)

[Fozzy_Bear]

If you are more accurate with a slug then you need practice on the carbine... Seriously.


Demigod,
You must have missed something.

No, I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. Seriously, you must have missed that what you just said (quoted above) was exactly my point.


You and I are, in fact, in total agreement..

From my last post:


...You are assumeing that I am more accurate with a rifle than I am with my shotgun.
...
Here's the thing:
I have fired exactly 58 rounds out of my (or any) Black Rifle. All of them this past weekend.
...
Would YOU trust your family's defence to that level of experience?
....

And I didn't note engineering for my choice, I mentioned that I do, indeed, know the information and that it isn't ignorance of the facts that caused the choice. There are simply more relevenat factors, IMHO. -- In my mind that's a difference, but you may disagree.



And thanks for the A2 info. You did research eh? Cool... Is it by chance available online anywhere?

.

[markm]

We are at peace... no worries! It's just that some of the guys you're debating on the subject are Coppers with significant LE experience and good training credentials. Not just opinionated loud mouths like me, but real world users with practical experience.


But the A2 thing.... I'm not aware of anything online. I just messed with it at a low light shoot once.

Like rsilvers (the designer of the blackout flash hider) will tell you, flash hiding and muzzle breaking are mutually exclusive. They work on opposing principals. As far as the compensating effect of the slot positions on the A2??? It is insignificant from what I can tell.

[Fozzy_Bear]

Cool.

(If I weren't easy to get along with, I wouldn't use the name Fozzy Bear... ;) )

But just to point one thing out... I never said my max range was 10 meters with the 870. I mentioned my patterns were smaller than a diameter of the slug at the max range that can bee seen inside my house.



That being settled...


One last question please.



...
No offense brother... but you're not the first guy to sight his engineering background (or other various education/experience) when backing up your basis for poor weapon selection. It's a common tactic on TOS.
...



Maybe I'm just having a Brain-Freeze, but what's TOS?


.

[markm]

The Other Site.... AR15.com

[Fozzy_Bear]

Oh. cool

thanks again.

[Safetyhit]

This is a relatively uninformative yet very funny thread, in my opinion. :D


Always go with the rifle over the shotgun if you have the ability. Now that you have one, practice and you will develop the comfort level you seek.

You seem like a good guy, Fozzy. Welcome aboard.

[Fozzy_Bear]

...
practice and you will develop the comfort level you seek.

You seem like a good guy, Fozzy. Welcome aboard.



Thanks.