View Full Version : Marie
Named her Marie after my then-fiancee's (now wife's) middle name. Been building/evolving her over the last 2 years. The idea is a general purpose fighting carbine.
I first began the project to get more familiar with the platform and to compliment the Armalite rifle I bought as a teenager stepping over into adulthood. Without researching much, I jumped on a deal for a DPMS stripped lower my local FFL had hanging out in his safe. Other than not dropping 2 GI mags (both Center Industries Corp. from Wichita, KA) free, it hasn't given me any issues.
Phase 1:
DPMS stripped lower
DPMS lower parts kit
DPMS flat top upper (without barrel assy.)
Del-Ton 1/9" chrome moly 16" barrel
A2 flash hider
A2 front sight base (not F marked)
Troy folding rear sight
Hogue grip
Choate Tools 5 position stock
Magpul MOE handguards
Eotech XPS 2-0
$5 2 point nylon sling
I decided the stock was too heavy, too wobbly, and pinched my beard too much. Additionally, some reading I did indicated the threads on a mil-spec stock actually filled the threads on the lower all the way. (Is this true? I couldn't find anything solid on it.) Sorry, I forget who made the buffer tube.
Also decided to try out a cheap VFG on special to see what the hype was all about. For five dollars, why not?
Phase 2:
Magpul CTR stock
Mil-spec buffer tube
$5 no-name VFG
I was pretty happy with it, but decided it was time to learn how to do a trigger job. The trigger group came out and made friends with the Spyderco Tri-Angle sharpener and some quality grease. I was pleased with the results, but decided Geissele could do a much better job than I could.
Phase 3:
Geissele SSA trigger
Blackhawk 3 point sling
Amazing improvement. Why are my groups still sucking? I shouldn't be getting 3" groups at 25 yards off a rest, even with this poor quality XM193, etc... And shouldn't that stuff be fine in a 1/9" twist barrel? Why is the 62 grain ammo giving poor results too?
I went with chrome moly again because of the purpose for this carbine. 2 MOA is OK, 12 was not. God save us all from protecting the Constitution.
I also decided to throw on a TA11F-A I had purchased with the Armalite long ago as a young man with no better bills to pay from Mom's and Dad's 2nd story.
Phase 4:
Daniel Defense Chrome Moly 16" barrel, 1/7" twist
A2 front sight base, F marked
YHM Phantom 2 flash hider
LaRue free-float rail
Trijicon ACOG
After researching much about bolt carrier groups, I have a Daniel Defense M16 BCG backordered. Hopefully I'll see it in this lifetime. ;)
Building and evolving has given me a deep connection to this carbine, and I can't imagine ever selling or trading her. Will be more than happy to post different angles/closeups on request.
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3012.JPG
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3013.JPG
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3014.JPG
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3015.JPG
polymorpheous
01-19-13, 20:43
You learned the hard way why Del-ton sucks.
I would never recommend messing with a trigger group like you had in "phase 2".
This is just asking for trouble.
Thank God for phases 2 (minus the VFG), 3, and especially phase 4. Sticking with the major components in phase one would've been insulting to your wife. What BCG are you running in that new barrel of yours?
polymorpheous, the trigger project was certainly fun and educational, but I agree; that's why the Geissele was installed as soon as it got off the truck ;)
Col_Crocs, it's the DPMS bolt carrier group that came with the original DPMS upper. It should hold up just fine until the DD bolt carrier group makes it here. I'm hoping that's under a month but expecting 6-12 months.
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3017.JPG
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3019.JPG
http://754b4db1ab812f3d8c4e-a0595a757c4015006713ff57d1eb573c.r20.cf1.rackcdn.com/100_3020.JPG
Curiously, what's your beef with the VFG?
Curiously, what's your beef with the VFG?
Current trends are toward grip pronation with minimal angulation at the wrist. The broom-handle concept is like so last year....
http://SSEquine.net/afggrip.jpg
While the parts weren't the best when you started, you've improved them.
One thing I'm not crazy on is the 3 point sling and VFG, but that's just my opinion. Other than that I'd rock it.
Read up, and replace things as needed and you can end up with a solid carbine.
Hmac, I'll be much more open-minded to rhetoric against the VFG than the proposed fashion statements.
Rmiller, thanks for the solid feedback. Can you suggest any replacement parts to improve reliability in its current state?
You'd think with all the fabled wide-open spaces in Texas I'd be able to step out in my back yard and run this gun, but urbanization has pretty much locked me into club carbine matches. That said, the 3 point sling seems to be ok. There may be a time when I have to haul this thing around on foot for 12 miles at a time, and the 3 point sling makes that thought bearable. ;)
polymorpheous
01-20-13, 09:18
Take a hard look at the Blue Force gear VCAS sling.
...You'd think with all the fabled wide-open spaces in Texas I'd be able to step out in my back yard and run this gun...
All the fabled open spaces in Texass are just that- fabled. When I was exiled to Tejas, there were few places to go shooting and fewer to go 'wheeling.
Experiment with a good 2 point sling, I think you'll find you like it better. There are times when the 3 point sling gets in the way of the controls
Hmac, I'll be much more open-minded to rhetoric against the VFG than the proposed fashion statements.
Rmiller, thanks for the solid feedback. Can you suggest any replacement parts to improve reliability in its current state?
You'd think with all the fabled wide-open spaces in Texas I'd be able to step out in my back yard and run this gun, but urbanization has pretty much locked me into club carbine matches. That said, the 3 point sling seems to be ok. There may be a time when I have to haul this thing around on foot for 12 miles at a time, and the 3 point sling makes that thought bearable. ;)
The barrel was a great start. I'd go ahead with the BCG you have planned on.
Like others said, experiment with a solid 2 point sling like the VCAS. It's amazing simple and robust. I'll never go back to a single point.
Thanks again for the feedback regarding the sling. Been mulling it over... yeah, you pick up the rifle and all you get is SLING in your face. We'll give it a try and sell the one that loses out.
Anyway, it gives a great excuse to pay shipping on a Pow'r punch decapping rod and those QD sling swivels I've been contemplating ;)
All the fabled open spaces in Texass are just that- fabled. When I was exiled to Tejas, there were few places to go shooting and fewer to go 'wheeling.
Experiment with a good 2 point sling, I think you'll find you like it better. There are times when the 3 point sling gets in the way of the controls
That's cause 90-something percent of the land is privately owned and not state owned. And yes I agree, it blows.. But I love this state.
If his view on the rifle is a fighting rifle why not run a single point that can convert to a 2-point when needed, similar to the MS3 (I know they dig in your neck, but they are coming out with a padded version soon, MS4)
Sent from God's Country
The_Hammer_Man
01-21-13, 03:02
[QUOTE
If his view on the rifle is a fighting rifle why not run a single point that can convert to a 2-point when needed, similar to the MS3 (I know they dig in your neck, but they are coming out with a padded version soon, MS4)[/QUOTE]
My "fix" for the neck rub blues with my MS3 was to take a couple pairs of old sock, cut the toes out of them and slip them over the sling into the "sweet spot". A little riggers tape later and I was much more comfy.
You say it's a fighting rifle. What are your plans for a light?
El Cid, thanks for challenging me with a damned good question. The Surefire M300A is my top choice, but I'm constrained by current budget and other priorities (mags, ammo, FAK, hydration, everything that's just as important for the gun but doesn't have a picatinny rail mount) for the theater I see this carbine in... Life situation has done a total 180 since I began putting it together.
I've toyed around with a Streamlight TLR-3 on it. It works well enough if I need it, but I'd rather keep it on the handgun. It's just easier to go check out what the dog is barking this time with a handgun in my neighborhood. I don't need to label myself with the local PD as "that guy" while the nosey neighbors repeatedly call the cops for me "brandishing" (the beholder needs new eyes, yes?)… Without opening up the invitation for a total handgun vs carbine vs shotgun for home defense tangent, I've weighed the pros and cons for myself, and I have all options on hot standby, and yes, opening and closing the safe every time I get home or leave is a PITA.
Let's narrow down what I meant by "fighting rifle". I envision this to be a minute man musket. It's what I'm going to grab when I'm planning a road trip. It's what I'm going to grab when it's time to head to the family friend's farm on the other side of the state. Most importantly, it's what I'm going to grab when Paul Revere rides through my local neighborhood.
As previously alluded, I have a shotgun on home defense duty. Admittedly, it needs some illumination capability on it too, but that's getting on another tangent. In the interim, I have the good old fashioned pistol with a mounted light and a hand light right there beside the shotgun at the ready. I love options. If I need the firepower and the power is running to the numerous night lights in the house, we're good to go. If I need the lumens, I grab the light and handgun-with-light. More often than not, I'm going to be checking out a noise to see if it's a problem rather than knowing a problem is there.
If I were to dedicate this carbine to home defense, the ACOG would come off, the rear sight would go up, and the TLR-3 would go on. There's also the option of throwing an Eotech on there which is hanging out in the safe, waiting on me to decide what to do with it. I like the Eotech a lot, but I hate the idea of having to choose between turning the damn thing on when trouble comes or replacing the battery often and just leaving it on at night. There are answers for this too, but these answers raise more questions (such as repeat zero toggling between the two optics, blah blah blah).
El Cid, if you were in that situation, what would you do with a light? I'd like to hear your opinion. Thanks again.
I think Marie looks good, I applaud you for your efforts of taking a mundane performer...and biting the bullet after realizing your modern musket wasn't up to par.
Good job man! Keep up the improvements...let the mission dictate the outfit, and shoot! Don't let others persuade you, only you know what you need, and what suits you.
You seem like an intelligent person, more than capable of understanding the important things in a fighting carbine.
El Cid, thanks for challenging me with a damned good question. The Surefire M300A is my top choice, but I'm constrained by current budget and other priorities (mags, ammo, FAK, hydration, everything that's just as important for the gun but doesn't have a picatinny rail mount) for the theater I see this carbine in... Life situation has done a total 180 since I began putting it together.
I've toyed around with a Streamlight TLR-3 on it. It works well enough if I need it, but I'd rather keep it on the handgun. It's just easier to go check out what the dog is barking this time with a handgun in my neighborhood. I don't need to label myself with the local PD as "that guy" while the nosey neighbors repeatedly call the cops for me "brandishing" (the beholder needs new eyes, yes?)… Without opening up the invitation for a total handgun vs carbine vs shotgun for home defense tangent, I've weighed the pros and cons for myself, and I have all options on hot standby, and yes, opening and closing the safe every time I get home or leave is a PITA.
Let's narrow down what I meant by "fighting rifle". I envision this to be a minute man musket. It's what I'm going to grab when I'm planning a road trip. It's what I'm going to grab when it's time to head to the family friend's farm on the other side of the state. Most importantly, it's what I'm going to grab when Paul Revere rides through my local neighborhood.
As previously alluded, I have a shotgun on home defense duty. Admittedly, it needs some illumination capability on it too, but that's getting on another tangent. In the interim, I have the good old fashioned pistol with a mounted light and a hand light right there beside the shotgun at the ready. I love options. If I need the firepower and the power is running to the numerous night lights in the house, we're good to go. If I need the lumens, I grab the light and handgun-with-light. More often than not, I'm going to be checking out a noise to see if it's a problem rather than knowing a problem is there.
If I were to dedicate this carbine to home defense, the ACOG would come off, the rear sight would go up, and the TLR-3 would go on. There's also the option of throwing an Eotech on there which is hanging out in the safe, waiting on me to decide what to do with it. I like the Eotech a lot, but I hate the idea of having to choose between turning the damn thing on when trouble comes or replacing the battery often and just leaving it on at night. There are answers for this too, but these answers raise more questions (such as repeat zero toggling between the two optics, blah blah blah).
El Cid, if you were in that situation, what would you do with a light? I'd like to hear your opinion. Thanks again.
There's a lot going on in this post - lol! Regarding optics, I tend to prefer Aimpoints. If you already have an EOTech it should do the job fine. The newer models tend to have fewer issues than the older versions. Realistically, unless you are shooting at long distances, I'd sell the EOTech and ACOG, then buy an Aimpoint PRO, a nice light, and lots of ammo.
Regarding the light... there are too many options to count.
- Rail Mount Light (X300, TLR's, WML, etc.): Since you have a quad rail, you can mount the light in a few places. With the FSB, the 12 o'clock isn't an option. If you mount one directly to the handguard, my recommendation would be the 3 o'clock position (assumes you area a right handed shooter). Underneath will create bbl shadow and get in the way of supported positions and cover. Another option is the rail mount that attaches to the FSB. In that case, I would put it on the left side for support thumb activation.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/MIMCTAR-01.aspx
- Barrel Light (6P, G2, Polytac, etc.): This is the path I chose for my duty rifle (quad rail and FSB). I used a Polytac LED light and the IWC/Thorntail mount. This puts the light further forward than putting it directly on the rail. This setup is also significantly less expensive than a M300A or getting a second pistol light.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/STL88851.aspx
http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/category/mount-n-slot/light-mount/
I tend to agree with the others in this thread who recommend looking at your grip. If you are using the VFG as an index point to pull the weapon into your shoulder - good. But a shorter VFG will do the same and be less in the way. A handstop is also a good option (IWC, LaRue, AFG - though it's much bulkier) for that. Your support thumb should be running along the left side of the handguard, pointed at the target IMO. Some prefer having the thumb over the top - but your physical build, the limitations of the equipment (short 7" handguards for example), and the environment will all help you figure out what is best for you.
Good luck!
Well I'm glad I found this thread about Accu-wedges. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=89153
Hacked 0.62" off that VFG last night. We're going to run that and see what it does. For a $5 piece whose only purpose was experimentation, I figured it was worth the fun sawing it off and filing it flat. Good to keep the hands moving, especially when the trigger finger has been stilled due to ammo supply/demand.
If nothing else, I'll end up tossing it and running a bare handguard to buy the most versatility in improvised supports. I don't like a lot of paraphernalia on the rifle anyway, and have even been considering dropping all optics in favor of irons. We'll see how that plays out in the long run.
VCAS gets off the truck tomorrow with a couple VLTOR quick-disconnect swivels. Been wanting the swivels anyway... real eager to give that VCAS a whirl.
After that, it'll be back to administering the next round of punishment to see where it breaks... (No, not contradicting myself, I have a little stash I'm willing to get into to make sure this thing will run the way I want it after changing things)
Patiently checking the email every day for the BCG. No telling when I'll ever see that... womp, womp.
Thanks again for all the feedback. Mirrors on the Wall can be invaluable.
Slvr Surfr
01-23-13, 15:53
Good job with Marie. It's good to see your rifle evolving to higher quality parts with time. I also agree that you will probably enjoy that Two point sling over the three. I personally love the padded VTAC sling. I feel it offers the ability to snug up the sling more so than the VCAS. YMMV
As for the light option, I highly recommend the Mossie Tactics Midnight mount ----->http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BattleComp-Mossie-Midnight-Mount-MT2400FSB-PIC-p/bce-mt2400fsb-pic.htm
I use this on my duty rifle with a surefire X300 Ultra light. It will give you the ability to run the light at the 12 o'clock position. I really like keeping things KISS. This light / mount is as simple as they get.
The X300U is 500 lumens, while the standard X300 is 170 lumens. Between the <$20 price difference, I would go with the X300U if you can find one.
The next option is the same mount using the new streamlight TLR1S. This light gives you a 300 lumens light in the same position, unfortunately the light is not as slim as the SF.
Between your light and sling, you will have a good all purpose defense carbine.
...I don't like a lot of paraphernalia on the rifle anyway, and have even been considering dropping all optics in favor of irons...
I am the biggest battery-phobe on this site. If it needs a battery, it don't belong on my carbine- No sirree. I am also an advocate of iron sights. I feel everyone should learn how to use iron sights.
So keep that in mind when I tell you I have an Aimpoint H1 on my carbine. The battery lasts forever and the Aimpoint is faster than iron sights getting on target for the first shot and follow-up shots. The Aimpoint is well worth the money and I advise you put one on your carbine as well. It has a permanent home on my carbine.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/Carbine_H1.jpg
You saw in my earlier post how I mounted a light to my carbine. It's simple, rugged, keeps the rifle slim and is easy to operate. Installation is a snap. Here is the Mossie Mount & XD300 prior to installation.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurfire001.jpg
The added bonus is the light can be quickly removed from the rifle and installed on the pistol.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/Handguns/DSC_00072.jpg
It's not a cheap set-up by any stretch of the imagination. Sticker shock for the light nearly knocked me out of my socks! However, I have no regrets. The light is very light and bright (get it? The light is very light and... never mind..). Surefire now offers an improved version that puts out even more light.
I have put several hundred rounds through the rifle and a few mags worth through the pistol with the light mounted and nothing has broken. The light is on it's third set of batteries as I've used it quite a bit as a regular flashlight. The XD300 has also found a permanent place in my kit.
I am very satisfied with the performance of the Aimpoint H1, the Mossie Midnight light mount and the Surefire XD300. Coming from a proud battery-phobe, that's saying something
OK, right on dude, thanks for the reassurance from another anti-battery perspective.
Let me ask you this: what is the main purpose (besides the obvious, of course ^_^) of a weapon mounted light on your rifle? Where are you going and what are you doing with it to need a light? At this point in time, I'm not convinced I need a dedicated light when I can slap on the TLR-3 and have it if I need it especially if I'm running the ACOG as a primary optic. I have absolutely no business going into somebody else's dark room at this point in time, unlike some of you brave men with duty rifles.
I've been reading/studying about over-gassing and improved reliability, particularly from these two posts:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=99482
http://www.defensereview.com/the-big-m4-myth-fouling-caused-by-the-direct-impingement-gas-system-makes-the-m4-unreliable/
My brass is hitting the deflector on the upper pretty hard and has a vector trajectory at about 1:30. With the heavier BCG coming in later, I was thinking about definitely adding the SSS action spring (for longevity, if nothing else) with the Colt H2 heavy buffer. I'm thinking the H2 as opposed to the H3 or heavier to keep from going too heavy to be able to cycle cheap/underpowered ammo. IMO it may be a lot easier to re-zero for sorry ammunition than it would be to find (or carry around, esp. without losing) a lighter buffer.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-amp-action-parts/action-springs/ar-15-car-15-ar-style-308-chrome-silicon-springs-prod22336.aspx
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-buffers/h2-heavy-buffer-assembly-prod26578.aspx
Is this sound logic, especially as it pertains to H2 buffer being a middle ground to the preferential heavier buffers cited in the above articles in addition to a heavier BCG and stiffer spring? Best I can tell, I have the stock DPMS carbine buffer and action spring. An unknown origin is as good as the worst known origin, IMO.
My carbine is my go-to if someone were to break into my abode. There are various reasons why, including less over penetration than a pistol round and greater ammo capacity and less recoil than a shotgun. I am a much more confident in my abilities to handle and shoot accurately under stress with a rifle than either a pistol or shotgun. The weapon light is to aid in target identification in the dark. It is also painfully bright when shined in the eyes. Keeping the light mounted to the rifle means it's always there if I need it.
I have other flashlights and always keep one in my pocket and always keep one handy while at work. Lessons of life have taught me to always have a good flashlight and a good knife in my pocket and never wear shoes that don't offer good traction.
I plan to buy another light for the handgun, but that will have to wait a couple paychecks.
Before trying heavier buffers and springs, check out the solutions discussed in this thread-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=118010
KD6IJG
Excellent discussion; this is digital gold.
Due to the modularity of the platform at large, I'm sold on the light. If I decide I don't want the extra weight I can just take it off and put it in a pouch until it's needed. The TLR-3 is on standby as an interim solution until I can get to a light dedicated to Marie.
The best thing I got from the "Over-gassed 11.5.. cut to 10.5 help at all??" thread was:
Doctors say that
Gas Port Obsession (GPO) is a relative rare, but extremely potent sub-type of common Black Rifle Disease (BRD).
Affected patients are often unable to function normally, usually forgoing sleep and beer, until all carbines in the immediate vicinity are corrected.
Just kidding ^_^
The thread had some really great ideas. Because I cannot trust that the action spring I have was built to spec in the first place, I'm going to double check the size of the gas port on the DD barrel and get a known good action spring. We'll take it from there whether we decide to go with an insert-able gas port or pair what I have with a heavier buffer or whatever...
With the understanding and acknowledgement that 750rpm (at regular pressures) does not equal 750rpm (of excessive pressures compensated by counter-weights), it really makes me wonder if she is actually over-gassed or if it's just under counter-weighted. The DPMS parts did come with the expectation that the rifle should eat everything from the most apologetic .223 Remington all the way to the most authoritative 5.56mm NATO. We all know that something which tries to do all things usually does all things half-ass, and I can easily imagine this translates to semi-automatic actions. Call me out as soon as possible where applicable.
Being a Daniel Defense barrel, I'm sure the gas port size is right, but it's 3 pins to slide the FSB forward far enough to check. Small potatoes.
This rifle is going to hum along like the London Symphony Orchestra before I'm--no, we're--done with it. >8)
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