"Safe" or "Panic" room pictures and ideas.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

I am building a new house that is focused around sustainability and living off of the grid. One of the main designs to be incorporated in the house is a safe room to be placed in the basement. All walls will be constructed of poured concrete with chicken wire placed inside of the concrete forms to prevent breaching. I have plenty of available space for the room. Ideally, it will be around 20x20.

I'm looking for pics of already constructed rooms or ideas from others that have been planning their own. The room will serve a double duty as my arms room and storage area for sensitive items and a supply of emergency rations to last a month or so until I can gain access to my stockpiled caches around the property...

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

Great question, I will be following your thread. I have an unfinished 16 x24 room on concrete slab floor next to my garage that I wanted to reinforce for storage, including gun safes and storage food & supplies.
It will be heated and air conditioned but currently has conventional exterior walls.
Since I am DIY, as a minimum I was going to skin the walls and ceiling with screwed-in 3/4 plywood. The Ceiling joices will need to be added to-- spaced closer & larger to carry the ceiling weight. Also replace door and door frame along with bars on the windows.

But , if you have the money, this is a possible idea to consider for finishing a basement:



http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/Aggie84/7f6674adf7b90aef87f23faa83e04286.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/Aggie84/161f1cde6ef13e4f0887c09efcb5a8d5.jpg

[RamadiDoorkicker]

Unfortunately, money isn't unlimited like some people I've met on here! I am not forced to pinch pennies or cut corners but it must be reasonable. Especially since my wife is in charge of all executive decisions and she doesn't appreciate the need for a safe room like I do!

[gan1hck]

Great question, I will be following your thread. I have an unfinished 16 x24 room on concrete slab floor next to my garage that I wanted to reinforce for storage, including gun safes and storage food & supplies.
It will be heated and air conditioned but currently has conventional exterior walls.
Since I am DIY, as a minimum I was going to skin the walls and ceiling with screwed-in 3/4 plywood. The Ceiling joices will need to be added to-- spaced closer & larger to carry the ceiling weight. Also replace door and door frame along with bars on the windows.

But , if you have the money, this is a possible idea to consider for finishing a basement:



http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/Aggie84/7f6674adf7b90aef87f23faa83e04286.jpg

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/Aggie84/161f1cde6ef13e4f0887c09efcb5a8d5.jpg

nice....

[C4IGrant]

I think it is a good idea as either a walk in safe or panic room. A good steel door with a digital combo is nice as well (so you don't have to look for keys to get in).

If possible, put the room under the front or back porch slab (so that someone couldn't cut their way in through the ceiling.



C4

[Dave L.]

I am building a new house that is focused around sustainability and living off of the grid. One of the main designs to be incorporated in the house is a safe room to be placed in the basement.

Check your pm's

[alienb1212]

Check your pm's

Any way you'd CC me with your suggestions?

[Dave L.]

Any way you'd CC me with your suggestions?

Check your PM's too...

[buyforce]

We just built a two years ago. I had them put in block walls, filled with rebar and concrete. The ceiling is a quarter inch thick steel plate,with six inches of concrete on top. I had a custom safe door made in northern Ohio. I will send you some pics via im.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Dave L.]

A good steel door with a digital combo is nice as well (so you don't have to look for keys to get in).


Digital is nice if available, but keys are way faster than a dial.

[JoshuaJJackson]

We just built a two years ago. I had them put in block walls, filled with rebar and concrete. The ceiling is a quarter inch thick steel plate,with six inches of concrete on top. I had a custom safe door made in northern Ohio. I will send you some pics via im.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

You got any more details on this? Moving back to Ohio when I get separated from military this year, and was looking into this. I've heard of someone local doing vault doors/safes but have been vague on the details.

[Tungsten]

Very interesting and timely discussion as my wife and I are in the preliminary stages of designing our next house and one of her requirements was a "safe room" / storm shelter in the basement designed exactly as described here.

I'm lucky. What can I say?

[Bruce in WV]

Check the construction standards in Ch4 for SCIFs. Not a bad place to start for a safe room based on likely attack vectors for a home that's been invaded by reasonably unprepared BGs who are limited to what they brought with them or what you leave sitting around that they can adapt to an attack on your safe room.
They don't meet storm standards if you're in tornado alley. There are code sections elsewhere for those.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/dcid6-9.pdf

[PA PATRIOT]

With existing construction it is harder to properly reinforced a room with portable materials. I had three different contractors submit plans for a 360 degree armorer safe room and estimates were from $24,000 to $32,000 for a small 12x14 room. Most of the materials purposed used 0.5"in steel plate and 1"inch concrete board with a serious multi point locking steel plate door.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

I plan to use a few 4' cylinders to open a sliding door with a biometric scanner (if I can find one resonable) or a fingerprint scanner. If nothing else, it will put a huge smile on my face every time I open it!

[buyforce]

You got any more details on this? Moving back to Ohio when I get separated from military this year, and was looking into this. I've heard of someone local doing vault doors/safes but have been vague on the details.

Yes sir, I will get a name and number when I get home. They were great to deal with. Contractor built the opening to wide for the door. I called the door maker and they custom built a door for the new dimensions. Lucky for me, I got a larger door at the contractors expense.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[skydivr]

I've thought hard about this too. Cheapest is to design this into a new home build most likely.

[buyforce]

You got any more details on this? Moving back to Ohio when I get separated from military this year, and was looking into this. I've heard of someone local doing vault doors/safes but have been vague on the details.

I used Smith's Security Safes, out of Tontogany Ohio. smithsecuritysafes.com
They were great to work with. The only problem I had was getting enough guys to help me set the door.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[rdbse]

I am a licensed structural engineer in multiple states. If anyone needs safe room advice, please PM. I have designed structures from tornado shelters to federal courthouses (including blast/progressive collapse analysis).

[JoshuaJJackson]

I used Smith's Security Safes, out of Tontogany Ohio. smithsecuritysafes.com
They were great to work with. The only problem I had was getting enough guys to help me set the door.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Awesome thanks for the heads up I appreciate it.

[WillBrink]

I am building a new house that is focused around sustainability and living off of the grid. One of the main designs to be incorporated in the house is a safe room to be placed in the basement. All walls will be constructed of poured concrete with chicken wire placed inside of the concrete forms to prevent breaching. I have plenty of available space for the room. Ideally, it will be around 20x20.

I'm looking for pics of already constructed rooms or ideas from others that have been planning their own. The room will serve a double duty as my arms room and storage area for sensitive items and a supply of emergency rations to last a month or so until I can gain access to my stockpiled caches around the property...

My understanding is using Rebar with the concrete adds minimal additional costs but greatly increases strength of the walls. I added Rebar to my new basement by recommendation of the contractor due to height of the walls (taller than normal) and type of soil, etc.

I believe reinforced buildings designed/expected to deal with additional stresses, have added Rebar.

Worth checking on for sure, not an expert on that topic, but if I was going through the effort to have poured concrete for such a project, I'd likely add the Rebar to it unless otherwise instructed by a trusted source.

[GcHinOH]

Tagging for future reference. Looking to do the same in Ohio as soon as we can get one of our houses sold to get the ball rolling.

[montanadave]

I suggest you check out joelskousen.com and his secure home articles and books. He has a separate text devoted specifically to building a high security shelter within an existing structure. Not saying it's the be all and end all, but these books contain a lot of good information and ideas.

I can't link fron this device but Skousen's books are also available on Amazon. The one I referred to above is titled "How to Implement a High Security Shelter in the Home."

[arbninftry]

Look into an ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) home. They can completely make your home into a safe home. Also, they are not much more than traditional construction. There are lots of info and plans on them. We are looking to build one soon, in tornado alley NE OK area.

[tb-av]

a supply of emergency rations to last a month or so until I can gain access to my stockpiled caches around the property...

This sounds like you may concerned of people on the property. How would you power your safe room so they can't disable your power from outside? A month is a long time with people upstairs wanting to get in.

[RiggerGod]

If I might suggest a different approach:

Stealth and camouflage.

They can't bust in if they don't know that its there. Sure still build it out of block, re-bar, steel, etc. but spend a little coin camouflaging it! I like the thought of a room underneath the porch or garage or what ever and then walled off after the majority of construction is done so it doesn't look like your trying to build a bunker in your home.

Just my two cents.

[mikelowrey]

Check your pm's
Wouldn't mind if I could get it too )


I am a licensed structural engineer in multiple states. If anyone needs safe room advice, please PM. I have designed structures from tornado shelters to federal courthouses (including blast/progressive collapse analysis).

Can you show us anything you have done? I would love to see something.


If I might suggest a different approach:

Stealth and camouflage.
Just my two cents.

I agree with you. I would rather make it camouflage instead of " HEY RIGHT HERE!"

One of my ideas would be by making a secret entrance probably through my walk in closet (possible) that would allow me to gain a quicker access to the safe room but of course the area would not be obviously visible under the house. But the question is: How you gonna run it for a month like others said? what's the backup, remember necessities also, it has to have toilet, showers, to make it the best you can.

NOW, the most important thing that I would like to say here is, who would you trust to build your house for you. I been looking for a long time a company that can be trusted and what I noticed and read about all this companies who can "build the house of your dreams" is that they promise something and then the take off, ripping you entirely, so it would be nice if we could put here, reliable companies.

[Dave L.]

Wouldn't mind if I could get it too )


Check your PM's.

[Shao]

If I might suggest a different approach:

Stealth and camouflage.

They can't bust in if they don't know that its there. Sure still build it out of block, re-bar, steel, etc. but spend a little coin camouflaging it! I like the thought of a room underneath the porch or garage or what ever and then walled off after the majority of construction is done so it doesn't look like your trying to build a bunker in your home.

Just my two cents.

It worked for Batman.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

My understanding is using Rebar with the concrete adds minimal additional costs but greatly increases strength of the walls. I added Rebar to my new basement by recommendation of the contractor due to height of the walls (taller than normal) and type of soil, etc.

I believe reinforced buildings designed/expected to deal with additional stresses, have added Rebar.

Worth checking on for sure, not an expert on that topic, but if I was going through the effort to have poured concrete for such a project, I'd likely add the Rebar to it unless otherwise instructed by a trusted source.

Using rebar is standard practice when building with concrete. While it does increase load compacity of walls and floors, it doesn't add much in regards to a security factor.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

The number one reason that I am not going to hide the room is the fact that I want to be able to utilize and enjoy it on a daily basis prior to it being used in an emergency. I am sacrificing safety for practicality but doubt any roaming threat would be able to breach it.

As for power: I will have a separate 240v main coming from the power lines and running into the house from a separate location that the main house power. Also, since the entire house utilizes solar and hydro-energy, I will ultimately have a grid free power system. Considering housing the battery banks for the solar panels that run the house in the panic room so that I will have access to months worth of energy.

[WillBrink]

Using rebar is standard practice when building with concrete. While it does increase load compacity of walls and floors, it doesn't add much in regards to a security factor.

Thanx for the intel.

[tnt1106]

I think it is a good idea as either a walk in safe or panic room. A good steel door with a digital combo is nice as well (so you don't have to look for keys to get in).

If possible, put the room under the front or back porch slab (so that someone couldn't cut their way in through the ceiling.



C4


Digital is nice if available, but keys are way faster than a dial.




I plan to use a few 4' cylinders to open a sliding door with a biometric scanner (if I can find one resonable) or a fingerprint scanner. If nothing else, it will put a huge smile on my face every time I open it!

I utilize a biometric lock in my shop for access to restricted areas and it works out nicely. one this is scan time on the lock make sure to research and get one that scans quicker rather than slower. (Mine takes about 1.5-2 seconds to register the print and unlock.)

[rdbse]

Using rebar is standard practice when building with concrete. While it does increase load compacity of walls and floors, it doesn't add much in regards to a security factor.

If you believe this and think "chicken wire" is good idea, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Rebar does indeed add security and strength to concrete. It is especially important for impact and blast resistance. Rebar detailing and placement are critical as well. Unreinforced concrete is adequate in certain applications, but I would not recommend for a safe room.

[PA PATRIOT]

Some here may have grandiose fantasies that they can build a bunker to out last a hostile mob during a time of great distress, while concealment and OPSEC may help the determined hostile searching your home will most likely discover your safe room unless professional installation costing hugh dollars are spent to disguise the entrance.

A safe room is not intended to be a long term solution for survival by any means. Trapping yourself inside is only a death sentence if discovered by a hostile hoard as they will either burn you out (Just light the existing structure if built into a home) or find your air supply vents and use C02 from a vehicle or gas down the vent.

Now safe rooms are great to protect your family short term from the common crook in a non SHTF event while you wait until the police arrive or to be used as a vault room for valuables but sustainable living inside a safe room is both impractical and a tactical liability .

The wise course of action is to bug out as soon as a creditable threat is discovered to a area outside the hot zone.

Safe rooms AKA bunkers are nothing more then Tombs once discovered. I have a safe room but understand its limitations and vulnerabilities.

[tnt1106]

Some here may have grandiose fantasies that they can build a bunker to out last a hostile mob during a time of great distress, while concealment and OPSEC may help the determined hostile searching your home will most likely discover your safe room unless professional installation costing hugh dollars are spent to disguise the entrance.

A safe room is not intended to be a long term solution for survival by any means. Trapping yourself inside is only a death sentence if discovered by a hostile hoard as they will either burn you out (Just light the existing structure if built into a home) or find your air supply vents and use C02 from a vehicle or gas down the vent.


Now safe rooms are great to protect your family short term from the common crook in a non SHTF event while you wait until the police arrive or to be used as a vault room for valuables but sustainable living inside a safe room is both impractical and a tactical liability .

The wise course of action is to bug out as soon as a creditable threat is discovered to a area outside the hot zone.

Safe rooms AKA bunkers are nothing more then Tombs once discovered. I have a safe room but understand its limitations and vulnerabilities.


Would have to agree if your design or structure only allows a one way in out of said room. Then again, that is more of a vault (tomb with a locking door) vs a SAFE room. If practical have a hidden secondary exit with air supply that channels out and away from said structure. (Easier to do with below ground level bunker style safe rooms.)

[Awesome1228]

This is more of a generalized safe room, for storm protection, but it is much stronger than a standard room, and with a little modification, would be passable as a short term hide out. Tough to breach in a hurry, but not fool proof. Also, very DIY friendly.

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/Attachments/FH00MAY_STORMS_01.pdf

[SteveS]

Wouldn't you want a back door to get out? I imagine the cops not coming for 3 days and waiting the bad guys out for 2 weeks while you are locked in the safe room.

[Dave L.]

Wouldn't you want a back door to get out?

There's all kinds of improvements anyone building one of these would want. Just wait until you actually do it and realize how far your budget will get you. Here's a hint: not as far as you think.

Why would you get in it if you thought "bad guys" would camp out for 2 weeks in your house? :blink: I would rather focus on not letting anyone on my property first and getting in to my house second.

[Awesome1228]

Wouldn't you want a back door to get out? I imagine the cops not coming for 3 days and waiting the bad guys out for 2 weeks while you are locked in the safe room.

It all comes down to money and expected use. If you look at the diagram I linked to earlier, you can see that a room of that type, or any really, can be modified in as many ways as you can think up. In my opinion, a safe room is really a last resort. You are in the home, something totally unexpected happens like ninjas crash through your living room window or a flash mob busts through your door. You jet into the safe room and slam it shut. Ten minutes later after the ninjas steal your spam, you're done.

Joking aside, a safe room is really a short term protection, this is not some fall out bunker buried under the back lawn. If your safe room turns into a long term survival shelter, you either planned wrong or something way out of left field has happened. Just like every other piece of equipment, it has a specific purpose.

[skydivr]

Some here may have grandiose fantasies that they can build a bunker to out last a hostile mob during a time of great distress, while concealment and OPSEC may help the determined hostile searching your home will most likely discover your safe room unless professional installation costing hugh dollars are spent to disguise the entrance.

A safe room is not intended to be a long term solution for survival by any means. Trapping yourself inside is only a death sentence if discovered by a hostile hoard as they will either burn you out (Just light the existing structure if built into a home) or find your air supply vents and use C02 from a vehicle or gas down the vent.

Now safe rooms are great to protect your family short term from the common crook in a non SHTF event while you wait until the police arrive or to be used as a vault room for valuables but sustainable living inside a safe room is both impractical and a tactical liability .

The wise course of action is to bug out as soon as a creditable threat is discovered to a area outside the hot zone.

Safe rooms AKA bunkers are nothing more then Tombs once discovered. I have a safe room but understand its limitations and vulnerabilities.

+ this. I don't think there any structure you could build, regardless of cost, that could keep you safe for very long. Only purpose of a safe room is to hide your stuff from casual theives, or/or secure yourself long enough for the Cavalry to come. The longer the event lasts, the more important camoflauge becomes.

[Dave L.]

I look at as a storm shelter, 4-6 hours max.

Take this into consideration:
If you build a safe room during initial construction, be sure every contractor that works on your house and every neighbor around will know about it. EVERYONE will ask you "what's that for". Answer= Tornado Shelter.
Not to mention there's very little OPSEC once you submit your building plans for approval to a local gov. official.

[skydivr]

I look at as a storm shelter, 4-6 hours max.

Take this into consideration:
If you build a safe room during initial construction, be sure every contractor that works on your house and every neighbor around will know about it. EVERYONE will ask you "what's that for". Answer= Tornado Shelter.
Not to mention there's very little OPSEC once you submit your building plans for approval to a local gov. official.

Or, your property taxes...that drawing is a matter of public record too...

[Dave L.]

Or, your property taxes...that drawing is a matter of public record too...

Indeed sir.

I did it for forces that could wipe my house off the earth, not to hide from the the roving hoards of cannibal bikers. :eek:

Panic rooms are for people who panic.

[indawire]

I can only speak to regulations in Ct. as far as building plans being available to the general public. State Statute require us to return the plans to the owner upon request or issuance of the Certificate of Occupancy. Commercial plans are kept, but that's not your concern here. We don't keep them, old residential ones go into the incinerator. In 8 years as a residential inspector we have never had someone other than the owner get or even look at someone else's plans. Assessors field cards do not show enough detail to determine what anything is except in the most general terms. Those are available to anyone. As a contractor I had built several "safe rooms", they were all in the basement built as part of new construction. Yes, rebar in all of them, we made sure the rough door opening was poured to accept a standard sized security door. They were all labeled as "wine storage vaults" on the plans. Interior fitup was done after any contractors had left.

[RamadiDoorkicker]

If you believe this and think "chicken wire" is good idea, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Rebar does indeed add security and strength to concrete. It is especially important for impact and blast resistance. Rebar detailing and placement are critical as well. Un-reinforced concrete is adequate in certain applications, but I would not recommend for a safe room.


First off, take your condescending attitude somewhere else. My background in construction covers 14 years and a bachelor's degree.

I will accept that I shouldn't have used the slang "chicken wire" when referring to utilizing wire mesh. And I never recommended not using rebar in the concrete. Not once in my career have I poured concrete walls, floors, or foundations without rebar or mesh. My reasoning behind choosing mesh is that it offers an added bonus in my safe room. The odds of an intruder having resources to breach walls with a sledge hammer as they attempt to find out what is important enough for me to guard it as I have. The mesh inside the walls simply adds another layer of resistance. The mesh is too thick for wire snips cut.

Virtually any barrier can be defeated. The key is how long it takes to defeat it. That is the entire point of my choosing the wire mesh. I love this website and the information that can be found within its pages! If you have a disagreement with a post, address it professionally.

[Gramps]

If you are planning on being able to be in there for any length of time, remember one thing, "SANITATION". When you eat/drink, it has side effects, and those side effects, have to be dealt with too. Otherwise it could turn into a real shitty deal.

[rdbse]

First off, take your condescending attitude somewhere else. My background in construction covers 14 years and a bachelor's degree.



You need to relax. I would expect someone with your experience in construction would have thick skin.

My comment was professional as I was attempting to correct questionable advice and poor terminology. It seems like everyone is an expert in this area. Reminds me of the contractors I deal with on a daily basis who don’t know what they don’t know. I do not suffer these fools gladly especially if it’s on my project.

I am willing to offer professional advice in this area, but it appears you have it figured out. Good luck!

[RyanB]

I'd probably do #5s at 8" both vertical and horizontal. They'd have to have a torch, a jackhammer and time to get in.

Ideally I'd have access off of the master bedroom. That way my kit and rifle could be ready to go when I'm home and otherwise locked up.

[1slow01Z71]

Using rebar is standard practice when building with concrete. While it does increase load compacity of walls and floors, it doesn't add much in regards to a security factor.

That is absolutely wrong, rebar adds a massive amount of extra security. Every bank I do had triple mat #6 or #8 rebar at 4" off center and alternated placement between mats under the vault. While I may not have PE after my name I've built everything from. the north end zone of UTs stadium to a 44 story highrise. Rebar and concrete are an awesome concoction that will pass off all but the most well armed intruder. Ehen we tear down existing concrete structures it takes trackhoes with a hoeram or a bobcat with a high frequency ram to get through 8" concrete with double mat steel. Somebody with a sledge is going to do nothing, and any sort of mesh short of no.9 welded wire is not going to added any resistance.

Proper rebar placement and if you just gotta have the best high psi concrete will fight these would-be intruders. Better not have any vents in this "safe room", your garden hose wouldnt take too long to fill that room up and drown you.

[RyanB]

No chance in hell I'd fix my location like that. Possessions only.

[Bruce in WV]

Years ago I downloaded two planning docs from the late 90's with very specific safe room plans, specs, etc. They're storm-proofing oriented, and obviously don't include latest products. I don't have a link to a site, but I'll email them to anybody who PMs me.

[PA PATRIOT]

Years ago I downloaded two planning docs from the late 90's with very specific safe room plans, specs, etc. They're storm-proofing oriented, and obviously don't include latest products. I don't have a link to a site, but I'll email them to anybody who PMs me.

Do you have the name of the doc's or room styles maybe my Search-Fu can bring up a link.

[Bruce in WV]

they're on my drive at home...

[mikelowrey]

Ill take them :)

[skydivr]

We'd love it if they were online somewhere....

[Bruce in WV]

These are more current than I remembered (2008). Good info in them.

Taking Shelter From the Storm: Building a Safe Room For Your Home or Small Business
Includes Construction Plans and Cost Estimates
FEMA 320, Third Edition / August 2008

In-Residence and Small Business Safe Room Designs, DHS, Rev 2, August 2008

I'll also send the docs to those requesting them. Please send me your email address.

[skydivr]

These are more current than I remembered (2008). Good info in them.

Taking Shelter From the Storm: Building a Safe Room For Your Home or Small Business
Includes Construction Plans and Cost Estimates
FEMA 320, Third Edition / August 2008

In-Residence and Small Business Safe Room Designs, DHS, Rev 2, August 2008

I'll also send the docs to those requesting them. Please send me your email address.

PM Sent. Thanks!

[mikelowrey]

Thanks Bruce!

[skydivr]

Thank you Sir!!!

[DukeNukem]

I know very little about construction, but I know a lot about coming up with an idea, then when it comes time to implement it, it goes down nothing like I thought it would, usually erring on the side of overkill. If it were me, this is what I'd consider before I start coming up with a blueprint.

Plan for the most likely scenario - a common break-in...

Saferoom would be only big enough for all family members to enter and remain long enough for police to arrive. For instance, if you can fit the family in the Master bedroom closet, it doesn't need to be any bigger than the closet's dimensions. (if it's the end of the world and no police will ever come, I suggest shooting anyone who steps foot on your property...problem solved)

Most likely time of attack would be at night. Consider locating it close to the bedroom side of the house for quick access.

It should be constructed in a manner to where cell phone calls would not be blocked by the structure's thickness, construction materials, or location (underground).

Make sure the door can be easily opened from the inside, and no chance of a person or child getting trapped or stuck.

Consider ventilation with battery operated fan. In the summer in the middle of a power outage, it could take police an hour or more to arrive. A small confined space full of people breathing heavily could cause someone to have a panic attack in the panic room.

Optional: If you have the giant panic room with all the extras at the far end of the house away from the bedrooms, then as an optional back-up, put reinforced lockable doors on one or all bedroom closets in case the bad guys are situated between you and the big panic room. Also optional, a panic button activated only from inside the panic room that activates flashing red lights inside and out and an ear piercing "oogah" horn. I grew up a criminal. Every time I set off an alarm, I panicked and ran.

For me, a rec room size panic room would be extreme overkill and too expensive. However, if cost isn't an issue, it would be a great multi-purpose room to store valuables. A small reinforced closet sized room would be better for me. If a builder asks what the room is for and you don't think it's any of their business, then be creative...for instance, "my wife collects high-end vintage clothing...we lost a fortune from smoke damage in our last house. She wants to make it somewhat theft resistant too" or "my neighbor lost all their family photos and her grandparent's furniture in a fire..." You get the idea, protecting valuables, but nothing worth someone breaking in and stealing, or make it sound too big and bulky to walk off with.

[rocsteady]

These are more current than I remembered (2008). Good info in them.

Taking Shelter From the Storm: Building a Safe Room For Your Home or Small Business
Includes Construction Plans and Cost Estimates
FEMA 320, Third Edition / August 2008

In-Residence and Small Business Safe Room Designs, DHS, Rev 2, August 2008

I'll also send the docs to those requesting them. Please send me your email address.

pm sent.

thanks much

[Thump_rrr]

If building a new home with survival in mind the first thing that needs to be thought out is the topography of the land.
If your house needs a sump pump you're already doing it all wrong.
Building a room in the basement for long term supplies or security then having to have electricity to keep it dry is pointless.

As others have mentioned before a safe room is something used for a short period of time till help arrives.

My job has me sometimes making holes in reinforced concrete up to 24" thick.
I haven't met a slab of reenforced concrete that a diamond core drill couldn't get through.
Time is the only enemy.

[Land Shark]

Not to hi jack this thread but I am in the process of using the Closet/room that is under my stairwell in the middle of the house to store ammo, gear, and firearms. Concrete floor, stud wall on 3 sides and CMU wall as the 4th. It has a regular door and is not finished with a concrete floor. I am looking for ideas as to what to really do to it as to not ruin my "stuff" I have already lined the CMU wall with plastic and installed (2) bar type electric De-humidifiers. Installed a dead bolt on the door so that you can only enter with a key. Any suggestions to make it "better"

Thanks in advance

LS

[whiskey lake]

In my opinion, the best safe room is a room that "doesnt exist". Any wall or door can be breached...and usually a lot easier than you think. You best option to wait it out is to be somewhere that "doesnt exist". Then you shoot anyone who "discovers" you.

[TheTick]

I know very little about construction, but I know a lot about coming up with an idea, then when it comes time to implement it, it goes down nothing like I thought it would, usually erring on the side of overkill. If it were me, this is what I'd consider before I start coming up with a blueprint.

Plan for the most likely scenario - a common break-in...

Saferoom would be only big enough for all family members to enter and remain long enough for police to arrive. For instance, if you can fit the family in the Master bedroom closet, it doesn't need to be any bigger than the closet's dimensions. (if it's the end of the world and no police will ever come, I suggest shooting anyone who steps foot on your property...problem solved)

Most likely time of attack would be at night. Consider locating it close to the bedroom side of the house for quick access.

It should be constructed in a manner to where cell phone calls would not be blocked by the structure's thickness, construction materials, or location (underground).

Make sure the door can be easily opened from the inside, and no chance of a person or child getting trapped or stuck.

Consider ventilation with battery operated fan. In the summer in the middle of a power outage, it could take police an hour or more to arrive. A small confined space full of people breathing heavily could cause someone to have a panic attack in the panic room.

Optional: If you have the giant panic room with all the extras at the far end of the house away from the bedrooms, then as an optional back-up, put reinforced lockable doors on one or all bedroom closets in case the bad guys are situated between you and the big panic room. Also optional, a panic button activated only from inside the panic room that activates flashing red lights inside and out and an ear piercing "oogah" horn. I grew up a criminal. Every time I set off an alarm, I panicked and ran.

For me, a rec room size panic room would be extreme overkill and too expensive. However, if cost isn't an issue, it would be a great multi-purpose room to store valuables. A small reinforced closet sized room would be better for me. If a builder asks what the room is for and you don't think it's any of their business, then be creative...for instance, "my wife collects high-end vintage clothing...we lost a fortune from smoke damage in our last house. She wants to make it somewhat theft resistant too" or "my neighbor lost all their family photos and her grandparent's furniture in a fire..." You get the idea, protecting valuables, but nothing worth someone breaking in and stealing, or make it sound too big and bulky to walk off with.

If you tag the most likely scenario as a "common break in", then you need to change the plan to focus on day time.

Most residential burglaries are day time when the burglar believes no one is home. Most home invasion robberies occur at night when they expect you to be home. There is an incredible difference in the two. Most common residential burglars are criminals of opportunity and looking to score stuff to sell to feed a habit and try to avoid confrontation. Robbers targeted you specifically and initiate the confrontation.

Regardless, have your plan in place and, in the minimum, it should include rounding up the family in a room that preferably has a lockable door that opens out and line up a muzzle on the door. My wife is told to let them have the run of the house, but if they pry the door open even after repeated verbal commands, then let the chips fall where they may.

No one touches the kids without paying a price...

[Alex V]

I am a licensed structural engineer in multiple states. If anyone needs safe room advice, please PM. I have designed structures from tornado shelters to federal courthouses (including blast/progressive collapse analysis).

Im an Architect... we can team up lol.

I did a residence which had a "safe room" in the lower level of the home.

Won't post plans on here since its prolly not a good idea, but I can just bring up some ideas.

If you have an existing structure such as a single family home and want to create a reinforced room the chances are the existing slab in the basement of a slab on grade may not be able to support any type of reinforced wall built above it. rdbse can further explain but depending on the soil bearing capacity and span of the slab, it will not support the loads that are required for a hardened room.

Recently I was thinking of the easiest way to create a hardened room in a home, and since I mostly work on banks, why not use the same system bank's use for their vaults?

Diebold makes a 6 sided vault made from individual panels. They are prefabricated and easily assembled on site. Panels are made from relatively high strength reinforced concrete (6000psi) the mix has small stainless steel fibers in it making drilling through it all but imposable.The panels are roughly 2 or 3 feet wide and as tall as the vault (height depends on your design) The slab needs to be recessed 5" to allow for the floor panels to be laid down with leveling compound and shims to align with the top of slab. Since the weight of the vault is spread over the area of the bottom plate we have found that a 5" WWF reinforced slab will be able to support the weight with almost all soil conditions. The wall panels are then installed, welded to the bottom plate and seams grouted in. Roof goes on and vault door is installed. One of the top plates will have an opening designed to allow ductwork to be attached to it, but will not allow anyone to crawl through it by design.

Just a thought.

You could also build it using concrete block, #5bar every 32" with those cores filled with concrete, corners reinforced in the same manor.

If its new construction, the easiest way would be pored in place concrete.

[joelives]

Hi
It is a good thread and I choose not to post much,but I will add a little.A previouse post recommended Joel M. skousen excellent idea,his book The Secure Home in my opinion is very good.A few points from my experience (28 years in construction ,8 of it in concrete)
Your panic/ safe room is also a vault for everything you don't want stolen or burned.
This room should be outside of your building envelope :not in your basement etc
If your house burns every thing falls in to your basement/crawl space:think Dutch Oven-not good
A septic tank works well,as do 6' +diameter fuel tanks
They can be put in next to your house with a culvert to join them to your basement or crawl space
A small low door will hide much better than a 82" - standard vault door ,a 30"x30" door will fit behind a cabinet etc
Think about water,air,sanitation,escape tunnel and water table.

I do realize this is costly but how much do you have in guns ,ammo ,food, preps and family.For those wanting a cheaper secure wall or room you need to explore GRAVEL WALL CONSTRUCTION.Simple steel studs,3/4 ply and gravel will stop repeated hits up to .50cal better than concrete.2 1/2 inches of gravel will stop all .308 ,eats it up.It is cheap and you can do it!It is a little heavy so think about load.Keep it quiet don't tell your neighbor ,get Joel's book it's good

Thanks Joe

[officerX]

I thought this was going to be a picture thread. =/

[HES]

Hell, I'd just like to see some links to 2D floor plans at least.