View Full Version : Colt or no?
Hey guys. Picked up a supposed 70's M16 upper from a guy real cheap. He says its real colt. I'm trying to find out. The barrel is marked CMP, it came with triangle handguards and a slim handguard ring. Not like the newer tapered ones. The upper is A1 but didn't have a rear drop forward assist. It's round. The only mark on the upper receiver I can find is an A that looks like it was cut in half. The rear sight is weird in that it doesn't have two different sized apertures. They look the same size. Can anyone help? I can post pictures tonight when I get back to it. Oh, the front sight post has a kind o hard to make out C in the upper right corner. Thanks guys.
halfmoonclip
01-22-13, 22:08
The two apertures the same size are normal; the difference is in their height to compensate for distance. The 'L' leg is for long distance.
If your upper has a 'C' below the rear sight adjustment wheel (right side of carry handle) you have a Colt upper.
Moon
RearwardAssist
01-22-13, 22:29
Colt is pretty good about putting their C on products check the bolt and see, if its marked. All of mine have it marked pretty much all over the place.
Well, at the very least, you appear to have a colt barrel. Hard to tell what the rest is without any pics.
I'll get some pics up today. Promise. There is no C that I can tell on the receiver. Only a splintered A. The only C I found was on the FSB and the barrel. Hang on and I'll try to post some pics. The bcg that came with it was crap. Definitely not Colt. But its ok. I just sold it off anyway. I bought an actual colt bcg this last weekend at the gun show. For $300!!!!! That hurt.
Here's what I got.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/mustangman245/40B246ED-D762-4496-AEE2-78EBC15F0845-2201-000001397158512E.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/mustangman245/7C3E63DE-A5C6-49DF-89D4-67FC3C52CE52-2201-000001396B0FCE36.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/mustangman245/37355C7E-409D-4B09-88F7-B41A8BA72DC4-2201-0000013964875DE3.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/mustangman245/4FDBE2B6-BE4A-42C8-8241-B76FDC3C6B04-2201-000001395E8A4678.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt27/mustangman245/175576B4-D89F-4D72-9414-F18E79438B47-2201-0000013958477ED6.jpg
So what say ye? If this is not a colt upper, I may just sell it and get an A2 or A3 upper.
All of the Colt A1 type uppers I have seen, have a C behind the forger's forge mark. There should also be some more markings like a triangle or something (sorry, not too well versed with the different Colt markings and stuff) where the front part of the carry handle meets the receiver. Cant tell from the photos if yours has them/it or not. Seems like a nice A1E1 upper but it also looks like a "newer" run. Looks really clean and black. Any history on this upper at all? New barrel? Refinished? how many rounds through?
I don't know. All I was told was it was a Colt upper from the 70's. he said he bought it in the 70's and its been sitting around since. He stated it had never been fired. It had packing grease in it when I got it. I guess at least the barrel is colt. I wish I knew who made the upper though. That A is the only mark on the upper that I can find.
charmcitycop
01-23-13, 08:16
.....
Splintered A = Anchor Harvey Aluminum Forging. Used by a couple different mfgrs. If there isn't a C in a square or a triangle forward of the ejection port it probably isn't a Colt upper.
Well that sucks. So somebody took a random A1 upper and put a Colt barrel and other parts in it? Kinda retarded.
Why is it retarded? Maybe you should do your research first...then buy.
Why is it retarded? Maybe you should do your research first...then buy.
Well considering I paid $400 with a semi bcg and just bought it two weeks ago, who gives a shit who made it? I was hoping it was Colt but hell even the crappy uppers are going for more than that now. I sold the bcg for $175 so basically I got a complete upper for $225.
halfmoonclip
01-23-13, 11:14
The small forward assist and brass deflector are newer than the examples on my A1; what exactly do you want to make of it?
Do you have a lower?
Personally, I'm a pencil barrel fan.
Moon
Yes. I have a couple of lowers. I'm just going to make a 20" rifle out of it. I figured why not. Might as well use it. I believe this to be a pencil barrel as well. Definitely not an HBAR.
Well that sucks. So somebody took a random A1 upper and put a Colt barrel and other parts in it? Kinda retarded.
This quote makes me think you bought it thinking you found a Colt upper. Then you came here to confirm it. Random upper and Colt barrel = retarded to you. Others may think otherwise.
This quote makes me think you bought it thinking you found a Colt upper. Then you came here to confirm it. Random upper and Colt barrel = retarded to you. Others may think otherwise.
Well I just find it odd why you'd spend money on a Colt barrel and front end basically to put it on a non-colt upper. But like is said, I'll use it.
Not to argue the point...or take this thread sideways...but what does it matter?
Does the upper make a difference in accuracy? Or does the barrel make accuracy? Anyway you parted it out. Good job on making some coin.
You have a point. The barrel is where the accuracy is. I'm keeping this upper and I've already slapped it on a PSA lower with A2 stock. Looks good and even though it doesn't handle as quickly as my M4, it feels really good in the hands.
charmcitycop
01-23-13, 14:58
........
What's odd is I've seen this exact configuration before. Colt A1 barrel, AH C7 type upper, and no name semi BCG. Friend bought it off the web thinking it was a Colt M16A1 upper (that is what it was represented as). I wonder if somebody put a bunch of these together a while back.
Huh. Weird. Maybe. It'd be great if we had more info on these.
I would be more interested in trying to get some history on the barrel. The upper is minor. Granted it was machined to spec, it's actually a nice upper.
As far as I can tell, the barrel is actual Colt. It's stamped C MP Chrome Bore. So I Think it's real.
Ya, it appears to be. I was referring to its history as opposed to its authenticity. Seeing as it was sold as a complete colt upper when in fact youre now finding out both the BCG and upper are actually not. I would be weary of the "bought in the 70's and never fired" line he told you.
The fact that there is a brass deflector tells me this isn't a A1 nor from the 70s. This is a late 80s variant...IMHO.
Dave
ramairthree
01-26-13, 06:38
The fact that there is a brass deflector tells me this isn't a A1 nor from the 70s. This is a late 80s variant...IMHO.
Dave
Yeah, my SP1 upper was made in '82 IIRC, and it is a slick side.
The fact that there is a brass deflector tells me this isn't a A1 nor from the 70s. This is a late 80s variant...IMHO.
Dave
It's an A1E1 upper.
Post has been inert for awhile, but info is always good I guess. :)
I bought a C7 type upper direct from Bushmaster with the splintered A forge mark around 2000 give or take a year. I had to request the round forward assist due to Bushmaster using a tear drop type as standard.
HackerF15E
06-02-13, 08:52
I bought a C7 type upper direct from Bushmaster with the splintered A forge mark around 2000 give or take a year.
Lots of manufacturers use Anchor Harvey forgings for uppers -- including Colt.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to tell the quality of the upper based on simply who forged the blank that it was made from.
That receiver is not colt. It is a generic c7 style upper that bushmaster and others sell. It was made in the past 10 years.
Uppers from the 1970s aren't black. They are gray.
The seller is lying about when he had the upper.
That upper is typical put together junk that floats around on the Internet.
That receiver is not colt. It is a generic c7 style upper that bushmaster and others sell. It was made in the past 10 years.
How can you tell it was made in the last 10 years?
How can you tell it was made in the last 10 years?
Because that is when those things appeared on the market.
Because that is when those things appeared on the market.
I have had one since 2000 and they were selling them for several years prior to that. Thought there was some distinguishing mark you saw that indicated production year as being since 2003.
Come to think of it, one of the first AR type rifles I shot was a complete Bushmaster with C7 type upper in late 1994/early 1995 and as of last year it was still in use and plugging along.
I have had one since 2000 and they were selling them for several years prior to that. Thought there was some distinguishing mark you saw that indicated production year as being since 2003.
Come to think of it, one of the first AR type rifles I shot was a complete Bushmaster with C7 type upper in late 1994/early 1995 and as of last year it was still in use and plugging along.
I know they have been for sale longer than that.
The one in the OP's pictures is from the time period I stated. I can tell by the finish.
RogerinTPA
06-06-13, 08:39
The fact that there is a brass deflector tells me this isn't a A1 nor from the 70s. This is a late 80s variant...IMHO.
Dave
It's not even an 80's variant because the A1s never had a brass deflector. Having used A1s during that period, I don't ever recall a brass deflector until the A2 was introduced the mid 80's. I was in the 82d when we turned in our A1s for A2s. Nor have I seen a rear sight aperture where both peep sights were the same size. There's a reason why their supposed to be different sizes.
That receiver is not colt. It is a generic c7 style upper that bushmaster and others sell. It was made in the past 10 years.
Uppers from the 1970s aren't black. They are gray.
The seller is lying about when he had the upper.
That upper is typical put together junk that floats around on the Internet.
Agreed. The next time someone sees something out there, reject the idea of impulse buying and have some discipline to do your research. The OP has been had...
I know they have been for sale longer than that.
The one in the OP's pictures is from the time period I stated. I can tell by the finish.
Finish is the same as mine which is older than 10 years.
PA PATRIOT
06-08-13, 13:10
Either way have the chamber checked to assure its true 5.56 and that the barrel nut was torqued correctly. After that have fun with your build.
Let that upper be the basis for your next build... a dynamite C7, either with Gov't 20" or go shorty....eh !:)
DPMS & Bushmaster both sell those C7-type uppers.
Does it have M4-style feed ramps? If so, you'll either be able to sell it or, as suggested, use it for another build.
I have a real Colt A1 in great shape I purchased from Apex--if yours has M4-style feed ramps & you want to swap--PM or email me.
It's not even an 80's variant because the A1s never had a brass deflector. Having used A1s during that period, I don't ever recall a brass deflector until the A2 was introduced the mid 80's. I was in the 82d when we turned in our A1s for A2s. Nor have I seen a rear sight aperture where both peep sights were the same size. There's a reason why their supposed to be different sizes.
Agreed. The next time someone sees something out there, reject the idea of impulse buying and have some discipline to do your research. The OP has been had...
Yes it could be, the late 80s A2 AR15s from Colt had the brass deflector. The USMC adopted the M16A2 in late 85 early 86. The US Army didn't procure a large amount of them until late 1988 or 1989. I have a real early AR15A2 R6500 with slab side lower and no brass deflector and A1 rear sights...thats because the USMC was getting the newer uppers. However, there were some variants of the R6500 that did have the brass deflector. Those were released in 1986/87.
There were a lot of weird configurations as the Govt. contract were kicking in and Colt used up what they had.
Dave
Not sure where this came from but I doubt it is correct. I entered into service September 1986 and when I reported to my unit in Germany in January 1987 we already had them. Every unit I saw over there had them. At that time there were probably around 100,000 U.S Army personnel at any one time in the country.
Yes it could be, the late 80s A2 AR15s from Colt had the brass deflector. The USMC adopted the M16A2 in late 85 early 86. The US Army didn't procure a large amount of them until late 1988 or 1989. I have a real early AR15A2 R6500 with slab side lower and no brass deflector and A1 rear sights...thats because the USMC was getting the newer uppers. However, there were some variants of the R6500 that did have the brass deflector. Those were released in 1986/87.
There were a lot of weird configurations as the Govt. contract were kicking in and Colt used up what they had.
Dave
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