View Full Version : Practical use for TR21?
Hey guys, id like to preface this by saying im very much a newbie when it comes to the shooting sports but ive been interested in firearms since i was very young. Ive recently had my cherry popped on an ar15 and several pistols and im hooked. I went out and bought an M&P9 last saturday which i will be picking up this coming friday. I am waiting patiently for the ACR to be released and then i will be plunking down my hard earned dosh on a rifle for the first time.
Here's the meat and potato's of my question. In anticipation of owning a real rifle over the last two years or so ive begun acquiring some optics.
I currently own an eotech 512 which i love and i really like out to 100 yards.
Two months ago i saw a great deal on a trijicon TR21 and snatched it up. Its now sitting in an american defense recon-X mount and it certainly is a nice package.
Here is my dilemma. Im not sure i like the zoom but im smart enough to realize that it has its place.
Right now im questioning if i would ever use it over the eotech. I used to weigh 300 pounds about three years ago and since ive slimmed down one of my pet peeves is sitting around. If im going to get into shooting id really like to get involved with three gun or taking some basic carbine courses to learn what i can about operating my rifle in the correct and safe manner.
Does the TR21 have a place in any of these classes? Im really thinking that i would get more use out of my eotech 512 or even an aimpoint micro t-1.
Im a little confused as to what the practical application of the tr21 is supposed to be. I would imagine it would really shine past 200 yards but i really dont see myself shooting long range all that often. My local range only goes out to 100 yards and again, i really dont want to sit on my butt and sling lead down range, i want to get up and move. I read the sticky at the top of the page but most of what that poster said didnt really make sense to me considering im a total noob to all of this. I understand his concerns about eye relief and i mirror those but the rest didnt really ring a bell.
I know this may seem like a dumb question as most people will simply say, use what suits you but like i said earlier, im not sure what suits me and im not sure what the intended purpose of the tr21 is. It seems like its the middle ground, a reflex style sight crammed into a zoom scope package.
Can anyone out there offer me some advice or opinions on the matter?
Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
The TR21 is a very good all around optic. So good in fact that Navy EOD uses them in combat! So the TR21 will serve you well in 3 gun type activities.
C4
Grant, ive seen pictures of those gentlemen using the scopes and i was impressed that they put them on 10.5 inch barrels. Then again, im hardly going to be abusing my rifles 1/millionth of the amount that they do so im sure the scope will serve me just fine durability wise.
I think im confused about the usability and effectiveness of the scope because ive never shot past 100 yards, nor have i actually attended or witnessed a three gun match in person. My only exposure to it is youtube videos.
"Most underrated optic on the market" - Kyle Lamb.
From my perspective it's the poor man's Schmidt & Bender Short Dot (the Leupold MR/T would be up the next price point)
Unless you need the cash, keep the EOTech and Accupoint and you will eventually have need for both if you really get into competitive rifle shooting.
Good job losing the weight, by the way.
Grant, ive seen pictures of those gentlemen using the scopes and i was impressed that they put them on 10.5 inch barrels. Then again, im hardly going to be abusing my rifles 1/millionth of the amount that they do so im sure the scope will serve me just fine durability wise.
I think im confused about the usability and effectiveness of the scope because ive never shot past 100 yards, nor have i actually attended or witnessed a three gun match in person. My only exposure to it is youtube videos.
The scope can be used from 3yds to 300yds +.
C4
NCPatrolAR
03-04-08, 17:09
I ran an Accupoint for about 6 months and never really got into it. It wasnt bad at distance, but I felt it slowed me down at closer ranges. I sold the scope, went back to the Aimpoint/EoTech, and couldnt be happier.
I ran an Accupoint for about 6 months and never really got into it. It wasnt bad at distance, but I felt it slowed me down at closer ranges. I sold the scope, went back to the Aimpoint/EoTech, and couldnt be happier.
You are correct. You will never be as fast with a 1-4 variable as you with an Aimpoint or EOTech. The trade off though is tha the 1-4's give you a lot of capability for other things (precision shots at distance, target identification, etc).
C4
If you put a black flip-up front cover (and shoot both eyes open) on the front of the Accupoint, I bet you would be surprised with its speed.
If you put a black flip-up front cover (and shoot both eyes open) on the front of the Accupoint, I bet you would be surprised with its speed.
The accupoint uses BAC like all the RDS do (2 eyes open while you aim). It's just a 1.25x but that doesnt hurt much. You should be somewhat close in targ acq speed to an EOTech. I have an EOTech 552 and a Trijicon TR21... I ran a 4x magnifier on my EOTech before and it was horrible in both weight and clarity. The accupoint is an awesome scope and I believe that if you understand it's features you will have a blast with it.
EOTech should be used for entry and close to mid range varmit. The only thing that opted the upgrade for me was when we went prairie dog hunting and I could not hit the dogs past 100yds well enough; problems solved now: Still have fast close targ acq and now I have long range, i'm stoked.
Would any of you guys ever run a tr21 in a carbine course?
Ive been shooting my rifle for a few months now and honestly, i really dig my T1. Its accurate out to 100 yards and i can hit a chest sized target each and every time.
Yes, my groups suck but i dont shoot for groups.
Im finding it hard keeping the tr21 when all its doing is sitting on the shelf collecting dust.
I like the scope, i just cant seem to find a use for it since like i mentioned previously, all of my shooting is done at 100 yards or less (for now).
I just got a TR-21R myself, in a LT mount. I had the same concerns regarding sacrificing close-range speed for some intermediate to long-range performance. My AR was wearing an Aimpoint at the time, so to compare the two I mounted and zeroed both optics on my .22 upper, and proceeded to do a bunch of 25-yard and under shooting to compare. I really wish I had a shot timer for this kind of thing, but I'll make due with my subjective impressions.
The Aimpoint was definitely faster at first, but the more I shot the TR the closer the gap between the two. At 1.25x, the TR felt a lot like an Aimpoint. At higher powers, you have to take advantage of the BAC concept more -- let your weak eye do the work while you're scanning, then let your strong eye take over when you make it on target. Unfortunately this isn't going to work equally well for everyone, as everyone's eyes are difference. Someone with a really strong dominance may have trouble letting the weak eye do some work when scanning the big picture. Or cross-dominance issues may come into play. But I found that on low power, I could shoot both-eyes open almost like an Aimpoint, and at 4x, I could scan with both eyes open and then focus with my strong eye to engage.
Now, the TR is not without its weaknesses. The fiber-optic illumination works great in daylight. Looking from a dark area into a brightly lit area (like shooting from a dark building into an open space), you can find it might not be as bright as you want. Same thing shooting indoors. In a normally light home, I found it to be bright enough with ambient light, but in a dark house you'll run out of light before it's dark enough for the tritium to do it's job -- especially if your eyes aren't adjusted (i.e., just came in from outside). I played with a white-light some, and around my house I could get enough splash to help light up the recticle...but this is definitely a weakness for the optic. Since the recticle is just a black post in the absence of illumination, it's easier to "lose" it visually, although contract from a white light helps. Weaponlights are important on a carbine anytime, but it'd be critical if you have to use the TR-21 in an indoor environment.
I think where this the Accupoint really shines is on a general-purpose type carbine -- I think it's perfect on a 16" mid-length. It would also be great on a 20" A4 type build. You've got most of the long distance benefits of one of the fixed 4x optics, but with the 1.25x you can pick up most of the benefits of a red-dot. Does it cover both ends of the spectrum better than a dedicated optic? No, but it does do a pretty good job at playing both roles. IF (if) you can make it work for you, it might be a good compromise.
ETA: Yes, I would (and eventually will) run it at a class.
MisterWilson
08-11-08, 19:58
LOKNLOD, GREAT writeup.
You've pretty much nailed everything I've been wanting to know about it, as I've been considering breaking into the 1-4X optics from stright 1X AP/Eo's or 3/4X ACOGS.
LOKNLOD, GREAT writeup.
You've pretty much nailed everything I've been wanting to know about it, as I've been considering breaking into the 1-4X optics from stright 1X AP/Eo's or 3/4X ACOGS.
I'm sure you've already seen it, but the stickied 1-4x thread has lots of good info and USMC03's post about different optics has his opinions from use. It's always good to get some varying viewpoints :)
MisterWilson
08-11-08, 20:12
Actually I'd missed it as I'm a little new here, but thanks.
<----runs off to find it.
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