Tax Stamp for Scorpion [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

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halfmoonclip

01-22-13, 16:05

I need a Class III dealer to do the paperwork on a Czech Scorpion.
I have the parts needed to put a factory folding stock back on, but obviously need a tax stamp.
Can anyone suggest a Class III dealer in the Western PA/Pittsburgh area?
Thanks,
Moon

Black

01-22-13, 16:50

Is that a PA law? That you can't do the paperwork, yourself?

halfmoonclip

01-22-13, 17:54

Black, I don't know.
I've been down this road once before, and the paperwork seemed convoluted enough to make sense to work thru' a dealer, who would presumably get it right the first time.
Hard enough to wait six months without discovering that the paperwork has to be resubmitted.
Moon

Black

01-22-13, 17:59

I gotcha, that makes sense. Well, hopefully you can find somebody willing to help you out. Even if it's not a dealer, just another person familiar with the Form 1 process should be able to help. I know I'm always willing to help people through the process, and I even have all the paperwork and fingerprint cards (although they may be outdated, now). It's always in our good interest to get more people into the NFA hobby.

Was your first SBR a Form 1 or Form 4? I only ask because everything should be about the same, with the exception being the firearm info.

Looking forward to seeing your finished Scorpion!

saddlerocker

01-22-13, 18:30

I'm using bear paw arms for my suppressor. I don't have it yet, but they seem good

halfmoonclip

01-22-13, 18:32

Actually, I got their business card at the last gunshow, and they are relatively close.
Perhaps I'll give them a call.
Moon

halfmoonclip

01-22-13, 18:41

black, so am I. My wife got the gun for me for Christmas some years ago, and it is a neat and nicely made little piece, but it will be bunches neater with a stock.
I did score a couple more magazines after the election, and I reload .32s anyway, so it's pretty cheap to feed the little bugger.
The other question regards an aperture rear sight; wonder if anyone makes such thing, or if I need to try epoxying on a washer.
Moon

Hydguy

01-22-13, 22:58

Doing a Form 1 for your Scorpion is no different than doing one for an AR-15 SBR.
Follow the tutorial here or at TOS for registering an SBR.

It's pretty simple.

halfmoonclip

01-23-13, 19:13

Okay, I had a look thru' the posted stickies trying to find the 'do it yourself' guide, with no success.
Can somebody give me a little guidance here?
Also, I have the parts in my possession (an adapter that attaches to the gun, and the folding wire stock that attaches to the adapter), tho the adapter is not attached to my 'pistol' at this point, Doing so requires drilling and tapping to connect it, which has not been done.
Am I in violation of anything at this point, and am I on the side of the angels as long as I don't connect it?
Thnx, and be patient.
Moon

Black

01-23-13, 23:04

I assume you're not doing this through a Trust. It's late, so I will proofread in the morning.

Since it's not drilled and tapped, it may not be constructive intent. However, what is viewed as constructive intent has been debated in every different way, shape, and form through just about every gun forum. As long as you don't attach it, or make it look like it could be attached, you should be fine. But that's up to your local law enforcement interpretation. Not up to me, not up to anybody else here, up to your local law enforcement. If they raid your house for drugs and find it, they might hit you with constructive intent. I always keep my stuff in two separate locations, or don't purchase until my Stamp comes back. That's just me.

First step is to get your receiver engraved BEFORE you fill out the Form 1's. Find somebody who knows where to engrave on the Scorpion.

It will look like:

Bob Dole
Beverly Hills, CA

Then...

You'll need two Form 1's [F1*].
You will need two fingerprint cards [one that says NFA*].
You will need two Certificate of Compliances [F5330.20*].

You will need to get your passport photos taken (2) or I have heard they can now be printed directly to the form, if you have that capability. These will go on the picture slot on the Form 1's. You will also need each Form 1 signed by your Chief of Police or Sheriff. And you will need your fingerprints done. I have always listed "For All Lawful Purposes" as my reason and have been approved. I have heard some states require weird things, so check the laws on that. I don't know every State's laws, just Montana & Alaska.

It's all pretty basic. Fill out the forms for what they ask. Feel free to PM me any questions.

Then write a check for $200. I can't remember who to title to but it will be on Google. I think it's Department of Justice.

Put in folder and mail to *drumroll*:

NFA Branch
Suite 1250
244 Needy Rd.
Martinsburg, WV 25405-9431

*You can get the forms here: http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/
*Order Fingerprint Cards here (NFA ones): http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/

Now you will wait for what seems like a lifetime.

If your paperwork gets kicked back, it normally is approved within 2 weeks of mailing back to them.

CoryCop25

01-23-13, 23:22

halfmoonclip

01-24-13, 10:10

Guys, I appreciate the comebacks and I'll do my best to digest it.
Funny thing is, when I SBR'd the AR, the shop that sold me the rifle did the paperwork; IIRC, they didn't even charge me, and they handled the fingerprints and the passport photo. I had some recent passport photos, and it appears to be that one of those was used.
In any case, the whole thing was sufficiently painless and simple; I would have been content to let that shop handle it again, but they have experienced some sort of staffing change.
BTW, the current SBR is on an ATF form 1. I keep that in the safe, and a copy in the pistolgrip of the rifle.
Moon

Bret

01-24-13, 19:32

halfmoonclip, filling out your paperwork isn't difficult. You just have to know what to do. Here's a link that will tell you exacty what to fill in on the forms.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=78162

Here's mine.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5639/scorpionsbrstockextende.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5528/scorpionsbrstockfolded.jpg

halfmoonclip

01-24-13, 22:42

Dammit, Bret, I'm green with envy! How did the open sights treat you when you fired it?
I'll check out your link.
What did you do about fingerprints?
Moon

Bret

01-25-13, 08:43

The open sights are adequate for the firearm.

As for fingerprints, I took the fingerprint cards that the ATF sent me to my sheriff's office and had them take my prints. You must use the specific cards that the ATF sends you. Your prints will be rejected if you use the ones that your sheriff's office has. My sheriff's office uses a computerized optical scanner. It lists 100 different "reasons" for the fingerprints, but none of them are NFA related. It doesn't matter. They chose the one for concealed carry which printed on the fingerprint cards. The cards were not rejected because of this.

If you look at the process as several small steps that need to be completed correctly, you'll be able to get it done. Ask us if you're not sure about anything.

halfmoonclip

01-25-13, 12:14

You may be talking me into giving this a try.
How much trouble is it to get the materials from BATF right now?
I'm a AAA member, so they will do the passport photos.
Moon

halfmoonclip

01-25-13, 12:17

Bret, I followed some of the links on your post, and was told that they were not available.
Hmmm.
Moon

Bret

01-25-13, 20:17

That website had a bunch of dead links on it. Sorry.

Here's the ATF's website with the forms on it.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/

You'll need two Form 1's. Here's the direct link.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf
You can fill it in online and then print it. You'll only send in pages 1 and 2. Page 1 goes on the front of the sheet and page 2 on the back of the sheet. You'll need to do this twice because two copies are required.

You'll need two Certifications of Compliance. Here's the direct link.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf
You'll have to fill this one out by hand. Page 1 goes on the front of the sheet and page 2 on the back of the sheet. You'll need to do this twice because two copies are required.

You'll need two fingerprint cards. Unfortunately, you can't print them. You'll have to order them. Here's the link to the order page.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/
It's kind of an odd website, but you should be able to figure it out after playing around for a while. You'll want to order the FBI FD-258LE. It's the bottom one on the right side. Don't just order two. Get 10 or so in case the guys doing your fingerprings mess things up or you decide to do another SBR (very likely).

When it comes to filling out these forms, there are no dumb questions. Better to ask here then send them end and receive back a rejection six months later.

halfmoonclip

01-25-13, 21:03

Bret, you've been a huge help, and I filled out and printed the application forms, tho' I'll have some questions to ask you tomorrow (It's late, and I'm going to go watch Blue Bloods

I could not make the order for the fingerprint cards work; they kept claiming I had not listed a recipient after putting in my E-address; not sure what in hell that was about.
I'll talk to you tomorrow, and thanks again!
Moon

halfmoonclip

01-26-13, 17:26

I love when computer stuff won't work and it won't tell you why....finally figured out that it didn't like my hotmail address and I had to use another one, and a phone number without dashes does not compute.
Okay, Bret, I submitted the BATF request for forms; ordered the 'application to make a firearm' and the 'certificate of compliance' as well as the fingerprint cards...presume they will simply mail me that stuff?
Now, looking down thru' the 'application to make a firearm', block h, Additional Description, all the previous Class III dealer put in my current Form 1 is an additional four digit number, which is also what is engraved on my lower.
I've been told my name and address have to be engraved on the gun, and marked in block h. What say you?

And an additional question: Section 13, Law Enforcement Certification, there's a place where my local Chief of Police needs to sign off. Should I be taking that up to him for signature, or will BATF send it to him for return.
All I can think of right now, and again, thanks!
Moon

Bret

01-26-13, 18:39

presume they will simply mail me that stuff?
Yes, but don't expect it to be sent to you in a timely manner. All of it may not even arrive together.

looking down thru' the 'application to make a firearm', block h, Additional Description, all the previous Class III dealer put in my current Form 1 is an additional four digit number, which is also what is engraved on my lower.
I've never once put anything in section h and have not yet had a Form 1 rejected yet. Other people put information that's engraved on the firearm in this area.

I've been told my name and address have to be engraved on the gun, and marked in block h. What say you?
Yes, and it has to be engraved where it can be see (not under the grips or something like that).
FIRST LAST
CITY ST

Section 13, Law Enforcement Certification, there's a place where my local Chief of Police needs to sign off. Should I be taking that up to him for signature, or will BATF send it to him for return.

You definitely have to get him to sign. My suggestion is, don't ask him if he will sign it because you don't want to present it like it's an option. Just drop off the forms for him to sign and leave your number so he can call if he has any questions.

halfmoonclip

01-26-13, 18:51

Okay, questions-
When I did the previous SBR, I never did anything with the paperwork; presume the Class III guy simply sent it on its way to the Chief of Police and on to the BATF. But it would simplify things to have the signature in place before submitting the paperwork?

The info with block h calls for '...all numbers and other identifying data which appear on the firearm'
I added a four digit number, listed it in the block, and nothing else, on the previous SBR. Is this an issue for the previous gun, and for this one? I can have the name/address added to the other gun easily enough, and to this one.

Finally, the fingerprint cards; any guess on how long they might take? I'm trying to dodge paying a Class III dealer up to $100 for doing paper, but if it is going to take two months to just get the fingerprint cards, I'd rather pay the money and get this thing moving forward.
Thanks for your patience!
Moon

Bret

01-26-13, 19:38

Moon, was your previous one done on a Form 1 or a Form 4 (look in the lower right corner of the front page)?

halfmoonclip

01-26-13, 21:47

Brett, it was done on a Form 1, and I have been using it as a guide to do the online forms.
That's where I'm getting the four digit number in block h, among other things.
Moon

Bret

01-26-13, 22:49

OK, I've never heard of a Class III dealer doing a Form 1 for someone, but I guess it's just a service, so why not. I'd fill out everything in the same manner. You definitely have to get your cheif LEO's signature prior to sending it in. Otherwise, they'll send it back to you. As for fingerprinting, you should be able to get it done wherever they do fingerprinting for carry permits.