View Full Version : Good Glocks, Bad Glocks
Much like the British, I'm thinking of transitioning to a Glock. Since Gen 4s and some Gen 3s still seem to be iffy, how does one go about figuring out which of the Gen 3s are likely to be good? I know you can determine HK production dates just with a glance at the serial number; does Glock use such a system? If so, what's the cut-off point I'm looking for?
Much like the British, I'm thinking of transitioning to a Glock. Since Gen 4s and some Gen 3s still seem to be iffy, how does one go about figuring out which of the Gen 3s are likely to be good? I know you can determine HK production dates just with a glance at the serial number; does Glock use such a system? If so, what's the cut-off point I'm looking for?
I'd have to do some data mining, but I think it's pre "M" serial number on Gen 3's.
Buy one and shoot it. Let the gun tell you what it's going to do, not the internet.
Wolfman131
01-23-13, 00:08
.......
*knock on wood*
I have a model well after the M serial number that is a gen 3 that has performed flawlessly through 5k rounds. I realize that's just one gun but that's just my experience
Buy one, shoot it, and most likely have erratic ejection problems like has been well documented OR look for a slightly older one like I posted info about, and not have to worry about it. I've tried 3 with "buy it and shoot it" method, guess what? They sucked, there are exceptions, but overall, the newer 9mm Gen 3's have had issues. I've stuck with my older model ones and have never had issues with thousands of rounds.
StR8ShOoTeR87
01-23-13, 00:42
i have a glock seventeen.gen 3. ZERO malfuctions after 670 rounds. Can not have made a better choice.
I just picked up a brand new Gen3 G19. Only shot about 100 rounds through it due to it being 0 degrees, LOL, but so far so good. No brass in the face, etc. Once it warms up some I'll put more through her. :D
*knock on wood*
I have a model well after the M serial number that is a gen 3 that has performed flawlessly through 5k rounds. I realize that's just one gun but that's just my experience
Strikingly similiar to our experience with now 9 Gen 4 9mms, G26-G34 purchased from Spring 2010 through last month.
Alaskapopo
01-23-13, 04:09
I just picked up a brand new Gen3 G19. Only shot about 100 rounds through it due to it being 0 degrees, LOL, but so far so good. No brass in the face, etc. Once it warms up some I'll put more through her. :D
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
Guinnessman
01-23-13, 06:24
I have been running K, L, and P prefix Gen 3's with no problems. The P prefix was built during the trouble years, and luckily has had no problems.
I have an early model Gen 4 G17 that was plagued with problems from the start. After a trip to Glock, an updated Recoil Spring Assembly, and new ejector, it now runs like a raped ape.
Despite Glock's problems of the past, I will still buy Glocks in the future.
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
I have a Glock 19/Gen 3 that would throw brass to the forehead for roughly the first 200 rounds. Since then I have put another 1000 or so rounds thru it and the problem has disappeared.
Otherwise the gun has never had any other problems.
Nephrology
01-23-13, 06:36
N-prefix 17RTF here, almost 4k rds, no issues outside a bad RSA.
I have a bad G19, Gen 3. Test fired April 2012. Very consistent brass to face. So far, 500 rounds after putting in an Apex extractor it doesn't do that anymore and the pistol seems to be completely functional. However, the Apex extractors don't seem to be a universal fix in that some Gen 3's still do it after adding the Apex. I don't know if Glock has fixed the problem in current Gen 3's going out the door. I do have the distinct impression that the Apex extractor tends to be a much more reliable fix in the Gen 4's that are/were problematic. Hard to know how widespread the ejection problem is from internet reports (there are several such here on M4C), but it's definitely a real problem in at least some of the guns.
I don't think I'd be all that hesitant to get a Gen 4 G19 these days. Glock likely has either fixed the problem, or it's likely that an Apex extractor will fix it for $60 if you get a bad one.
Here's a video of a few rounds from my Gen 3 Glock 19 before putting in the Apex extractor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmop7PlUxQ
I have an older KLZ prefix 17 that has very erratic ejection.
It ejects too high, it like to drop brass down the back of my shirt with annoying regularity.
I have to come very close to smashing it to bits on several occasions...
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
My G17 threw brass into my head and face from the 1st shot through it. I bought it NIB from Grant about 3 months ago. So they are out there for sure. I put about 500 rounds through it and at least 50% of the spent casings hit me in the head or went over my shoulder. I just replaced the ejector. I'll see this weekend if that did the trick. Not condeming the gun in anyway and don't mind making the fix either.
I have a Gen3 17 (prefix TNK) that threw a couple of casings back at my face. Not as many as some of the horror stories I have heard here, but enough to be annoying.
I bought a Gen4 trigger housing and put the 30274 ejector in my 17. This helped the ejection a lot. I tested it with about 500 rounds of assorted loads, and not one BTF the whole day. I'm still gonna keep an eye on it, but for the 10 bucks and 15 minutes I spent swapping out the part it was well worth it.
Littlelebowski
01-23-13, 08:26
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
I've seen 3; all mine.
I was SOing at a match Sunday and I watched a buddies Gen4 19 eject right out on the top of the slide, the rear sight would deflect the brass or kick it out to the front.
I've watched that gun launch about 2500 cases and not too many of 'em went where you'd want 'em.
I hate shooting it because I can see the brass eject and sometimes it bounces off the front sight during recoil, annoying as hell.
It's been to two Glock armorers...
I spent a few hours at the range yesterday, I fired 34 rounds through my G17 before I switched back to my G19. Of those two mags through the G17, one stovepipe, one piece of brass hit me in the nose, another bounced off my lens, one off the bill of my hat, and two off my forearm. That's not counting the rounds that cleared my body, but still ejected erratically over my head.
It's days like yesterday that I'm seriously consider trading off my G17 for an older G19. Those types of issues do not fly for a duty weapon. I have yet to have a problem with the G19 in the thousands of rounds it's seen.
I've seen 3; all mine.
Mine too.
Shit... I wouldn't CARE about brass face if the pistol just never misfed. That's the part that spooks me. I can get over an occasional brass to the head.
Buy one, shoot it, and if you end up with BTF get the APEX extractor.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Mine too.
Shit... I wouldn't CARE about brass face if the pistol just never misfed. That's the part that spooks me. I can get over an occasional brass to the head.
I have about 1,500 rounds through mine. With one maybe, could be malfunction that I truly, truly believe was user induced. I have a little erratic ejection, but I have the 32704 ejector. I may one day buy the Apex extractor, but for now, the maybe 6 times I've been hit with brass that I can recall. It doesn't bother me.
I swapped out for a non-LCI extractor and White Noise HRED? I believe? For about 300-400 rounds. After that, I decided to go back to the factory configuration to see if it mattered. I've quit caring and in the number of rounds I shoot (I've had it about a year) I don't feel the need to go track down an almost imperceivable issue to me of ejection path.
You never know, I may buy the extractor, but I noticed no perceivable difference with a different Glock extractor and high reliability spring.
ETA: I will say this, I think the shorter slide Glock Gen 4 9mms do see this issue more exacerbated. I shoot a Glock 17 and it has the new RSA Assembly.
It seems some people are accepting the fact that "yeah... my gun has some erratic ejection sometimes, but I'm fine with it." That's not something I'm willing to compromise on. If you're out on a one way range, sure, I could buy that, a piece of brass to the face won't ruin your day. My problem is, the gun IS NOT designed to eject brass into my face or over my head, therefore it is not functioning as it was designed and needs to be fixed. It's not a risk I'm willing to take. Next time/if I'm in another gun fight, I can't afford to have outside distractions like brass hitting me in the face when I don't have the royalties of putting eye protection on before.
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
I assure you it exists. I witnessed it first hand. A friend of mine had a "new" Gen3 G19 that spit brass nowhere but back into his face.
In a freakish sort of accident, a hot piece of brass landed on his cheek and got wedged between the bottom of his eye pro and his cheek. Left a pretty good burn/welt mark for a couple of weeks.
It seems some people are accepting the fact that "yeah... my gun has some erratic ejection sometimes, but I'm fine with it." That's not something I'm willing to compromise on. If you're out on a one way range, sure, I could buy that, a piece of brass to the face won't ruin your day. My problem is, the gun IS NOT designed to eject brass into my face or over my head, therefore it is not functioning as it was designed and needs to be fixed. It's not a risk I'm willing to take. Next time/if I'm in another gun fight, I can't afford to have outside distractions like brass hitting me in the face when I don't have the royalties of putting eye protection on before.
I did the math, and if I calculated how many times its happened, it's .004% of the time. It's my EDC as well.
I have a gen 3 glock 19. The serial number starts with "T," i've nearly 100 rounds through the gun, the previous owner has fired about 300. No BTF, all the brass ejects at the 4 o'clock.
With that said, I think it's after the M series that they fixed this problem...I could be wrong.
I did the math, and if I calculated how many times its happened, it's .004% of the time. It's my EDC as well.
That I'd be fine with, but I had at least 5 problems through 34 rounds in mine. The previous 1000 rounds through that pistol have had the same issues. Until I get my hands on an Apex kit, that gun sits in my safe.
I did the math, and if I calculated how many times its happened, it's .004% of the time. It's my EDC as well.
Yes. Some people, maybe even most people, got 9mm Glocks that are functional. Looks like you lucked out.
That I'd be fine with, but I had at least 5 problems through 34 rounds in mine. The previous 1000 rounds through that pistol have had the same issues. Until I get my hands on an Apex kit, that gun sits in my safe.
I'd be upset with that number as well. Sorry to hear that. I replaced a temperamental 1911 with a Glock, so I know the feeling. The 1911 is in the safe now.
morbidbattlecry
01-23-13, 15:12
I also have a T prefix Gen 3 and it had BTF out of the box bad. I've seen on here and TOS the T prefix glocks are not good. The Gen 4s seam to be pretty well set and easy to fix if they aren't good. The
12/9/12
I think Glock is still working to get all the bugs out of the latest Gen 3 & 4 guns - I still see some issues in my classes from time to time which tells me they aren't quite there yet
1/13/12
2013 dawns and I still don't know how to answer your question in regards to Glock 9mm's - I want to think things are better but I'm not ready to give them an unqualified thumbs up yet
Touch base with me in June and lets see where we are then
I'd be inclined to give credence to the observations of any instructor running a high volume of pistol courses across the country.
jonconsiglio
01-23-13, 15:37
That I'd be fine with, but I had at least 5 problems through 34 rounds in mine. The previous 1000 rounds through that pistol have had the same issues. Until I get my hands on an Apex kit, that gun sits in my safe.
If it's a duty handgun, what are you carrying instead? Is it issued or privately owned? I typically carry a 17 at work but have been carrying an M&P the past 7 months. I'm going to start carrying the gen 3 once I get 500 or 1,000 rounds through it.
I must be extremely lucky. The three 17's I've bought since the gen 4's were released have had no issues in a combined 15,000 rounds, roughly. The first two were gen 4's then I picked up a gen 3 a week or two ago. It's only seen 300 rounds, but it's extracting nicely.
I have seen the issue with other's guns though, so I know it exists.
In a freakish sort of accident, a hot piece of brass landed on his cheek and got wedged between the bottom of his eye pro and his cheek. Left a pretty good burn/welt mark for a couple of weeks.
Had that happen where it stuck between my glasses and face. Now, I have a slight scar (two or three years later) on the end of my left eyebrow.
Mine bounced off of th wall at the indoor range though, not Glock related.
RemingtonBPD
01-23-13, 15:51
Is this specifically a 19 or 17 thing? My dept uses 23's and never had problems like this. In the 10years I've been shooting them I've had one malfunction, broken spring, and thankfully that was in training not on the street. Never an issue with my 27 either.
jameseguerin@hotmail.com
01-23-13, 18:50
Is this specifically a 19 or 17 thing? My dept uses 23's and never had problems like this. In the 10years I've been shooting them I've had one malfunction, broken spring, and thankfully that was in training not on the street. Never an issue with my 27 either.
Curious to know this as well. G23s have this issue or is it limited to 17/19s?
I believe it is primarily in the 9mm series. I think it has to do with the one part fits all calibers idea that some manufacturers have switched to. The new guns were designed around the 40 vs. the older guns which were designed around the 9mm.
0 problems from my Gen 4 G23 in roughly 1k rounds.
For what its worth: I talked to a Glock rep at the SHOT show. He admitted the problem, showed it to me, and told me it is now fixed. If you happen to come across one of the ones that came out during the time there was a problem, its a fixable issue.
For what its worth: I talked to a Glock rep at the SHOT show. He admitted the problem, showed it to me, and told me it is now fixed. If you happen to come across one of the ones that came out during the time there was a problem, its a fixable issue.
Stating a fact but not disclosing the info is pretty much useless info. I can claim I have the answer to the meaning of life, but if I don't give the answer then what exactly is the point?
Plumber237
01-24-13, 02:55
The handful of Gen 4 9mm's (3 17's and 2 19's produced in 2012) that I've seen firsthand have worked flawlessly...I don't remember what thread on here it was but it seemed as though the newer gen 3 9mm's were still iffy but the majority of the newer gen 4 9mm's were good to go. This was even with cheap wwb and federal champion ammo, even a couple boxes of umc. 3 of the guns have hit 2k rounds without problems, one is at around 1,200 and my personal 19 (THN prefix which I believe was October manufacture) has 250 through it and will be getting another 500 in about a week.
If it's a duty handgun, what are you carrying instead? Is it issued or privately owned?
I have been running my 19, as it stands now, my 17 is nothing that I will trust my life to. They are both personally owned. Eventually I will pick up an Apex kit and put it in the 17, but I'm not sure if I'll switch back to the 17 for work. I don't have the largest hands and can run a 19 decently well. I may keep the 17 around as a project gun one day for an RMR, or trade it off for another 19.
jameseguerin@hotmail.com
01-24-13, 11:10
For what its worth: I talked to a Glock rep at the SHOT show. He admitted the problem, showed it to me, and told me it is now fixed. If you happen to come across one of the ones that came out during the time there was a problem, its a fixable issue.
Care to elaborate? What was the problem he showed you and how was it fixed?
brickboy240
01-24-13, 11:20
I had a troublesome 3rd gen G19 that gave me brass to the face.
However, the Apex extractor for 60 bucks totally cured my gun.
I'd say go for it...if you DO get BTF...Apex has your fix.
(good luck finding spare mags right now, though)
-brickboy240
I had a troublesome 3rd gen G19 that gave me brass to the face.
However, the Apex extractor for 60 bucks totally cured my gun.
I'd say go for it...if you DO get BTF...Apex has your fix.
It seems to me that the Apex extractor fix is less than universal for the Gen 3 guns. IMHO, more likely to be successful in the Gen 4 BTF guns.
Psalms144.1
01-24-13, 11:26
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
PatI had four in a row, and saw three others from fellow Glock owners in the last year. Obviously, JHC and I are polar opposites on this track record, despite both being avid glock fans...
Regards,
Kevin
brickboy240
01-24-13, 11:31
Apex actually released a gen 3 specific extractor.
Admittedly...the first Apex extractor did NOT work in my 3rd gen G19 but their 3rd gen specific one runs like a top.
My 3rd gen G19 now ejects like my old 2nd gen G17....perfectly.
-brickboy240
Apex actually released a gen 3 specific extractor.
Admittedly...the first Apex extractor did NOT work in my 3rd gen G19 but their 3rd gen specific one runs like a top.
My 3rd gen G19 now ejects like my old 2nd gen G17....perfectly.
-brickboy240
Yes, my Gen 3 G19 ejects perfectly too. So far. However it's my impression that even the Gen 3-specific Apex extractors in the Gen 3 don't fix the problem as often at the Gen 4 extractors fix the problem in the Gen 4. What's your impression?
For what its worth: I talked to a Glock rep at the SHOT show. He admitted the problem, showed it to me, and told me it is now fixed. If you happen to come across one of the ones that came out during the time there was a problem, its a fixable issue.
Are you going to elaborate in this thread or continue to provide useless anecdotes?
Stating a fact but not disclosing the info is pretty much useless info. I can claim I have the answer to the meaning of life, but if I don't give the answer then what exactly is the point?
Copy that. My apologies. It was a ten minute back and forth conversation. With my typing skills, it would take along time to type it all out. Time that I don't have. He specifically mentioned the size, shape and rigidity of the ejector, and showed me the old style that I am used to on my older Glocks, and the new style that has been part of the solution. He spent some time explaining that the frame mods and other dimensional changes on the Gen 4s were making things "flex" differently under recoil, due to the polymer construction, than they were with the older models. He said they noticed the problem more with cheap "practice" ammo and less with full power "duty" ammo. I asked him directly about the extractor being the issue and that some people were able to correct the problem with aftermarket extractors and he claimed to have no knowledge of this. He also broke off eye contact while claiming to know nothing of extractor issues, which made me suspect he DID know something about it. Not calling the man a liar. Just noting a different tone and reaction to this question, than all the others. Bottom line is that with the mods and corrections in place, the new Glocks coming off the line are as reliable as the old ones, according to this one man behind the Glock counter wearing a Glock shirt. One complaint that I have heard is that Glock claims there is not, and never has been, a problem. This appears to not be the case. They DO admit there was a problem and took steps to correct it.
That is why I prefaced my post with: "For what is worth..." I have not bought a new Glock for several years, and have no experience with them other than seeing them run flawlessly in other students hands during classes, but I thought the direct info from a Glock representative might be helpful to the OPs quest for knowledge on the subject.
Not calling him a liar. Just insinuating it.
Not calling him a liar. Just insinuating it.
Yes, I suppose so. Just reporting what I saw. Found it noteworthy.
remington79
01-24-13, 15:21
My wife's G19 was test fired in 02/2009 with a M prefix serial number and now has 1149 rounds through it. This is with both me and her shooting it. I use it every month for GSSF matches. This G19 has a NON dipped extractor and a 336 ejector. We have never had any ejection issues or BTF. It has been reliable no matter how cheap the ammo is. We haven't used steel cased though or aluminium cased. I should note I tend to stay away from the CCI aluminium cased ammo because my HK USPC in 40 has always had reliable ejection for over 3,000 rounds now. Teh one exception of getting BTF with that pistol was when using CCI aluminium cased ammo.
Back on the 19th of this month I went to a GSSF match again. I was waiting for my turn and there was a lady shooting. She looked like and shot like she knew what she was doing so I'm going to rule out and shooter issues. I personally saw her new G17 have weak ejection to the right with the brass landing at her feet. I also saw forward ejection, ejection to the left and numerous times to the face and head. I watched her shoot all 50 rounds and everyone went all over the place and there were numerous brass going left and back to the head. The odd thing was the brass going to the head had more force in ejection than the brass going left or right. She even made a comment to her friend about brass going to her head. I saw BTF at least 3 times in one magazine. (course of fire was 10 rounds in each mag)
She let others and myself look at her pistol since she was showing off the stippling that was done and the TFOs that were put on it. I don't know how many rounds were fired but the pistol appeared new. I didn't think to look at the extractor or the serial number prefix. The store had a new Gen 3 G19 in stock but I couldn't wait around to look at it but it had a T prefix. My wife needed the truck so I didn't have time to look.
I'd like a G19 but used ones are hard to find lately. That and I just prefer to buy my stuff new, especially when I plan on carrying it. I'm just anal that way. For this purpose I find any BTF to unacceptable. I also would like to see them function with cheap ammo like they used to.
I haven't heard any issues with 40 cals but I saw some isolated reports of people having issues with G21s.
Alaskapopo
01-24-13, 15:31
I had four in a row, and saw three others from fellow Glock owners in the last year. Obviously, JHC and I are polar opposites on this track record, despite both being avid glock fans...
Regards,
Kevin
I would want to look at the difference between you and JHC. What ammo are you each using. What is the serial number range etc.
Pat
remington79
01-24-13, 15:35
I would want to look at the difference between you and JHC. What ammo are you each using. What is the serial number range etc.
Pat
I know you didn't ask me but I thought I'd throw ti out there just in case. My wife's G19 we have used a lot of cheap to pricier ammo in it. for the range and my GSSF we use whatever we find that's cheap. That means 115 grain. We've used, WWB, Magtech, yellow box UMC, Remington green and white box, CCI Blazer brass cased, and American Eagle, and a couple of boxes of Federal that came in a white box. It also has no problems with 147 grain Federal HSTs.
I'm a bit late to the party but I had a Gen 4 G19 and a Gen 3 G17 from mid 2011 that had a lot of ejection issues (brass to the face, stovepipe, etc) and I have two Gen 4 G17s from mid 2012 with no issues whatsoever. Same ammo, no issues from 0 to around 1500 round count (and climbing).
Take that for what its worth, but I would have no issue buying any new Glock as long as it was made past mid 2012.
remington79
01-24-13, 16:25
I'm a bit late to the party but I had a Gen 4 G19 and a Gen 3 G17 from mid 2011 that had a lot of ejection issues (brass to the face, stovepipe, etc) and I have two Gen 4 G17s from mid 2012 with no issues whatsoever. Same ammo, no issues from 0 to around 1500 round count (and climbing).
Take that for what its worth, but I would have no issue buying any new Glock as long as it was made past mid 2012.
That makes me feel better about buying a newer one and have a date to look for. Now I just have to get over the fact they no longer use Tennifer. Once again they didn't abide by "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
Alaskapopo
01-24-13, 16:29
That makes me feel better about buying a newer one and have a date to look for. Now I just have to get over the fact they no longer use Tennifer. Once again they didn't abide by "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
That is news to me. As far as I knew they were still using Tefner. The Tefner is clear underneath the dark finish they put on top.
Pat
remington79
01-24-13, 16:58
I read a couple of threads where people have asked glock about it and they were told they stopped using it around 2010 or 2011. If you go to Glocks webpage there is no mention of Tennifer anymore. They used to make a big deal about it when you clicked on the finish. This applies to both Austrian and US made Glocks.
http://us.glock.com/technology Click on engineering and then surface treatment.
PA PATRIOT
01-24-13, 17:34
Here is the funny thing,
Glock a Billion dollar gun manufacturer designs ever part of the Glock 9mm pistol, 2nd and early 3rd generation pistols have just about zero issues and makes a name in the industry. Glock has continuous ejection problems with a later manufactured 3rd and 4th generation pistols but just cant seem to correct the problem since 2010.
Apex is the size of a flea on a Great Danes ass compared to Glock both revenue and expertize wise on the Glock pistol but they in short order have a fix to correct a problem Glock has been battling with for over two years.
Now don't get me wrong I'm a hugh fan and owner of 2nd and early 3rd Generation Glock pistols but I have to say Glock either did not give a shit or they lost the ability to trouble shoot their own products because of the time that has past without a solid correction.
Copy that. My apologies.........
My apologies for being short with you. Thanks for giving the full scoop.
I have 3 g17's....all gtg
Sold 2 g19's but they were gtg too
Sold a 21, 26, 30, 36 because i didnt like them but they never had issues either
TheGhostRider
01-24-13, 19:32
I'll jump in here
Gen 3 G19
Serial number range MYH
Test Fire Date: 03/19/2009
2 Casings in envelope: Aluminum cases marked CCI 9mm Luger
LCI Extractor
336 Ejector
Bone stock except for my installing Trijicon Night Sites.
To date; 4950 rounds consisting mostly of low cost value pack ammo, blazer aluminum and some other cheap crap ammo.
Some US M882... currently hoarding this ammo.:D
BTF- 0
EE's- 0
FTE- 0
FTC- 0
FTF-4/ Ammunition WWB. Primer did not indicate light strike (appeared normal). Rounds fired on second attempt...
To date NO issues related to gun performance.
RSA was changed at 4k for no reason other than I felt it best to do so.
This G19 is my daily carry.
This G19 performed best with the M882 and Geco 124g.
It eats every hollow point that I've tried.
FYI: I've cleaned it... kinda... a few time's... I think :confused:
:D
My Gen 3 G17 spit a few casings back in my face in its earliest days, then shot 3000k perfectly until I went to the range and shot my friends crappy Winchester range ammo. I had fewer problems than he did I, and I expect limp wristing compounded his ejection problems. After I got back to shooting Blazer I haven't had a problem. Likewise when function testing my carry ammo.
Thanks for all the information, gents.
I don't know. Tough call. I could scout around for a pre-M Gen 3 and then go through the grip reduction thing for my tiny little child hands, or I could chance a newer Gen 4, which seem to be doing better than the earlier ones. Even then, though, I'm not entirely sure the Gen 4s are really the way to go. I could point to a few examples of Gen 3s making it past 200K rounds with only regular maintenance, and then we have Todd Green's Gen 4 going down before 60K. Not exactly a huge sample size, but it does sound more and more like Gen 4s aren't the Tenifer-coated tanks their forebears were.
Thanks for all the information, gents.
I don't know. Tough call. I could scout around for a pre-M Gen 3 and then go through the grip reduction thing for my tiny little child hands, or I could chance a newer Gen 4, which seem to be doing better than the earlier ones. Even then, though, I'm not entirely sure the Gen 4s are really the way to go. I could point to a few examples of Gen 3s making it past 200K rounds with only regular maintenance, and then we have Todd Green's Gen 4 going down before 60K. Not exactly a huge sample size, but it does sound more and more like Gen 4s aren't the Tenifer-coated tanks their forebears were.
I'd go Gen4.
I know they have their problems but the earlier guns weren't as perfect as everyone seems to remember.
My KLZ G-17 dumps brass down the back of my shirt, I had a second gen 17 that was horribly inaccurate. Every other Glock I've had has been great(except for a 36). Including a 2011 Gen4 19. It was probably the most accurate Glock I've ever had.
I think Todd Green's test was more indicative of what one should realistically expect. Breechface erosion will happen, the slide can crack, the breechface can crack, the frame rails can break off...
Hell, if the slide lock or mag catch spring break in the right place, the frame is trash.
Glocks are very durable pistols but they're not infallible.
Glocks are very durable pistols but they're not infallible.
I will agree with this, but add that I have found them to be less fallible than most other makes of pistol.
I will agree with this, but add that I have found them to be less fallible than most other makes of pistol.
I've found my particular Glock to be the most fallible pistol I own.
Just buy a Gen 2 or 3 and be on your way.
para13cord
01-25-13, 17:56
I guess glock shoulda stuck to gen 2. Hard to see any improvements since then.
Alaskapopo
01-25-13, 18:01
I guess glock shoulda stuck to gen 2. Hard to see any improvements since then.
Weren't light rails on Gen 3 guns. Also Gen 4 has a much better grip.
Pat
Singlestack Wonder
01-25-13, 18:07
Weren't light rails on Gen 3 guns. Also Gen 4 has a much better grip.
Pat
Yep. Light rails were introduced with the Gen 3's. Gen 4's did away with me having to apply skateboard tape to the grip. :)
I've had all generations. I really liked my Gen3's, but when the Gen4's came out. I picked up them up....even the FDE variants. I haven't had any issues with the newest RSA and dot connector.
I never liked the RTF texture (with our without gills) and I've owned a couple. For what it's worth, I do like the feel of the Gen4, especially with the larger mag release. It's small potatoes, but if I were to choose...I'd go Gen4.
You'd really go Gen 4 if you could only pick one, even with all the changes that have affected reliability in at least some guns?
You'd really go Gen 4 if you could only pick one, even with all the changes that have affected reliability in at least some guns?
Well it ain't like the third gens are are any better than the fourth.
It seems like you'd have a better chance of fixing a fourth gen than a third if you did get a problem gun...
I've found my particular Glock to be the most fallible pistol I own.
And I've got more than a dozen of them that have never failed a single time, even it the hands of brand new shooters and over the course of tens of thousands of rounds.
Now what do we do?
Well it ain't like the third gens are are any better than the fourth.
It seems like you'd have a better chance of fixing a fourth gen than a third if you did get a problem gun...
I started with Gen1's in the eighties, skipped the Gen2's, and now own all Gen3's and Gen4's. I'm only buying Gen4's from here on, as they all, from the 26 to the 21, really feel great in my hand, and I've had great luck with function, so far.
Skip
FWIW:
Gen4 G23, 1k rounds, never cleaned, gtg.
Buy one and shoot it. Let the gun tell you what it's going to do, not the internet.
This.
I've had over a dozen and the ones I sold were simply out of preference for a different feel, that I did not have the time to tune. No big deal.
I did not like the shooting feel of the 22, 22sf, or the 23. Again, just a personal feel of my shooting. I love the 17, 19, 21, 24, 30, 34/35, and the 36. Wolff RSAs in all, no extractor changes except on the guns with barrel conversions.
Join GSSF and get into it, not the internet.
My Gen 2 G19s a beast.
No brass to the face. Almost bought a Gen 4, but went Gen 2 because of the brass to the face issue I've heard about.
No regrets...
My Gen 2 G19s a beast.
No brass to the face. Almost bought a Gen 4, but went Gen 2 because of the brass to the face issue I've heard about.
No regrets...
Supposedly the Gen 4's are good to go now.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I bought a Gen 3 19, because I had read about all the problems of the Gen 4's. Well, my Gen 3 was a POS Serial# T. Every other case went right into my head, my wife was then afraid to shoot it because she got burned too many times, I almost threw the gun across the range several times. I will not buy another until I get the ALL CLEAR. I love Glocks otherwise, but I dont have the money to gamble with. Sold the Glock, bought a M&P 9c and havent looked back!
SilverTongueDevil
01-26-13, 15:48
I got a Glock 19 Gen 3 FDE T series two weeks ago.
I have run 550 rounds threw it so far dry fired it thousands of times and after the first 7 boxes of Independence 115 fmj got one Brass to the head..
Every mag after that has been BTF free but we shall see..
My ejection is not bad or coffee can great its more like a 5 gallon bucket sized area.
I plan on keeping my Gen 3 and buying a Gen 2 or 4 for the old lady...
If it starts to act up in real time ill fix it all the parts are cheap and easy to replace...
After a serious evaluation of my shooting with a Glock 19 & 17 today, I traded the 17 off for a FDE 19, THH prefix, test fired 08/07/12.
I made a straight across trade, 17 and three mags for the 19 and three mags, so I'm not out any money. I hope it runs right...
morbidbattlecry
01-27-13, 20:46
I bought a Gen 3 19, because I had read about all the problems of the Gen 4's. Well, my Gen 3 was a POS Serial# T. Every other case went right into my head, my wife was then afraid to shoot it because she got burned too many times, I almost threw the gun across the range several times. I will not buy another until I get the ALL CLEAR. I love Glocks otherwise, but I dont have the money to gamble with. Sold the Glock, bought a M&P 9c and havent looked back!
That's one of the worse things i don't hear people talk about much. When i got my junk T gun i was getting BTF every 2-3 rounds. And i developed a flinch like right now from it.
Buy one and shoot it. Let the gun tell you what it's going to do, not the internet.
This. Many perform at 100% reliability out of the box. Not all but many. Hopefully you get a great one.
brickboy240
01-28-13, 11:43
I agree.
Besides...if you DO get BTF...the fix is easy.
Mine did not start giving me BTF until about round 800. Called Apex and got their extractor. Dropped it in on the kitchen table after watching a You Tube vid on how to do it. Test fired it and almost 1000k rounds later the damn thing is still running great.
People act as if this problem has no real fix or is hard to fix or expensive to fix. Not true.
-brickboy240
I shot my THH FDE today. Good ejection.
I'm not sure how many rounds it's had through it from the previous owner, but I'm guessing a couple hundred at most.
I put 100 rounds of S&B 115 and 100 Federal 147 through it and never got hit with brass.
I did notice that the looser I gripped, the better the ejection was. Intentional limp-wristing cased the brass to eject at about 3:30 and fly about 4-5 feet. Death grip and it started throwing at about 4:30.
I ordered up an Apex extractor just to have one. I need a spare in the parts box and I wanted to check one out.
blueorison
02-12-13, 23:57
I have been running K, L, and P prefix Gen 3's with no problems. The P prefix was built during the trouble years, and luckily has had no problems.
I have an early model Gen 4 G17 that was plagued with problems from the start. After a trip to Glock, an updated Recoil Spring Assembly, and new ejector, it now runs like a raped ape.
Despite Glock's problems of the past, I will still buy Glocks in the future.
I shoot a P. Installed with Glocks latest "upgraded/fixed" parts by Glock LE Armorer.
Still has BTF all the time. Installed lighter spring (using factory ammunition). Still BTF.
Fail.
Littlelebowski
02-13-13, 06:45
I shoot a P. Installed with Glocks latest "upgraded/fixed" parts by Glock LE Armorer.
Still has BTF all the time. Installed lighter spring (using factory ammunition). Still BTF.
Fail.
Be more specific. What upgraded factory parts? Why are you using a lighter spring? Of all of the "fixes" I've heard of, that makes the least amount of sense. I'd recommend the 30274 ejector and the White Sound HRED, followed by the APEX extractor if the first doesn't work.
I replaced my ejector with the 30274 ejector and also swapped out the Glock extractor for the Apex extractor. I've since put a little over 300 rounds through my G17 and have had no problems what so ever. I'm not sure if you need to do both or just swap out the 336 ejector for the 30274 ejector. When I called Glock about the problem they said that swapping out just the ejector would take care of the problem. I took that with a grain of salt especially after reading through the various threads here. Either way I'm gtg so far. We'll see how this holds up in the future.
Regardless, everyone is going bonkers about this issue now and it's difficult for me to understand all of this hysteria. If the fix turns out to be swapping out these 2 parts then it's really no big deal. I can guarantee you that 99% of us spend more than that cost on other optional items for our weapons. I've spent more than the cost of the ejector and extractor just on mag base plates, extended mag release and a Vickers slide release.
If the fix turns out to be swapping out these 2 parts then it's really no big deal. I can guarantee you that 99% of us spend more than that cost on other optional items for our weapons.
"Well if it's a.. NO BIG DEAL..." - Leslie Chow, HANGOVER.
I shouldn't have to buy aftermarket nonsense to make a gun run. I WANT MY 80 GRAND! :mad:
Devildawg2531
02-13-13, 07:32
I would buy a gen 3 or gen 4 and shoot it - I think the odds that are extremely high that the Glock wil serve you very well. I have owned 5 Glocks and currently own 4 (G22 gen 3, G24 gen 3, G27 gen 3 and G34 gen 4) and have never had a BTF. My G34 is my newest at 3 months old and has approximately 550 rounds through it - I have decreased shooting a little while ammo is scarce to conserve. I think the BTF issue has been overblown and corrected in current production.
I think the BTF issue has been overblown and corrected in current production.
It's overblown for owners of good guns. It's not overblown for the rest of us, however.
I've got a THN serial G19 in FDE with casing dated in september of 12 with almost 3k rounds, no BTF or any other sort of malfunction. I've not shot anywhere but in an indoor range with barriers right next to me so I can comment on how the brass groups, I just know it doesn't group on my face.
"Well if it's a.. NO BIG DEAL..." - Leslie Chow, HANGOVER.
I shouldn't have to buy aftermarket nonsense to make a gun run. I WANT MY 80 GRAND! :mad:
You only get your $80K if I get half!:D
I understand what your saying. It's like the M&P 9mm accuracy issues. I have a M&P 45 and thankfully have no issues but I've also spent extra $$ sending it to Bowie Tactical for trigger work and have installed Apexs parts. My point is that we all spend $$ on our weapons and the cost of this fix isn't much compared to the extra's we spend. Yes, these guns shouldn't have to be fixed and Glock should have their crap straight but to dump a platform, as some have, when the fix is so easy I just don't see that.
callen3615
02-13-13, 08:31
Seems like glock and m&p are both at the point where neither work out of the box. Now that s&w have redesigned the m&p trigger and allegedly addressed the early unlocking of the 9mm models (anyone proved that yet?) they might have an edge over glock.
Over the years I've owned 5 Glocks; 2 19's and 3 17's. One was a early Gen 4 that ran as well as the others. They are all gone now because I just didn't shoot them well, not because they didn't work. The one G21 I did try shot well in my hands so I am mildly interested in that model. Just what is the verdict on the G21 Gen 4?
Over the years I've owned 5 Glocks; 2 19's and 3 17's. One was a early Gen 4 that ran as well as the others. They are all gone now because I just didn't shoot them well, not because they didn't work. The one G21 I did try shot well in my hands so I am mildly interested in that model. Just what is the verdict on the G21 Gen 4?
Take from this (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98556) thread-- It doesn't seem like the G21 Gen 4's have really had any issues. I've read in other threads that it seems to be more the 9's than the other calibers. Can't comment for certain though, no firsthand experience with any other caliber glock.
jmnielsen,
Thanks, the G21 seems GTG.
Supposedly the Gen 4's are good to go now.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Negative.
2/6/2013 production Gen 4 G17. No malfunctions but holy CRAP does this thing WING cases into my face.
I only have 200 rounds on the gun so i am going to let it settle down a bit more before i start screwing around with parts.
Considering the few million glocks in service there are going to be a few pricks out there that won't work just like with people. I wonder if I'm the only one that took a dremel tool and fine stone and changed the angle on the ejector to make the brass go in a different direction. Probably not recommended but very little I do is.
Subscribed sometime ago.
Had to check the prefixes on my Glock pile: B,H,F,M,P,L, on the ones I had available. Only changes made were a few Wolff RSAs, sticking with the stock spring weights, as indicated on their (Wolff) website.
I don't know which Gen pistols I have, but they work just fine. Not a Glock fanboi as I love my SIG 2xx Classic pistols and my 1911s. Have not met a "bad" Glock yet.
Interesting to read these threads though. From my Academy we had 24 shooters, IIRC. About 5 of us had shooting backgrounds. The G17 was pistol to qualify with. We did the usual line drills, as well as movement shooting, etc.. The other 19 people did qualify, and in those 2 weeks on the range we never had to stop to clear a firearm, except when it was part of a dummy round drill for tap/roll/rack.
Not sure where the drama here comes from? Use brass in the face as a distraction drill, learning to keep the big picture of the target area focused, then fix your pistol. I get brass in the face all the time at the range from other shooters-it doesnt mean I stop and get pissy about it. :haha:
Subscribed sometime ago.
Not sure where the drama here comes from? Use brass in the face as a distraction drill, learning to keep the big picture of the target area focused, then fix your pistol. I get brass in the face all the time at the range from other shooters-it doesnt mean I stop and get pissy about it. :haha:
If you've never had brass burn you or get lodged in your shooting glasses you dont shoot enough.
Two years ago at a Frank Garcia class i had a case become lodged in between the ear stem of my glasses and my temple resulting in a third degree burn.
I dont wear eye protection while going to Publix to shop for groceries. I know that we have some serious shooters here with 300 pound testicles but since im a queer, i would prefer my gun NOT have the ability to potentially disable my eyesight because it does NOT eject PROPERLY.
PathofPain
02-13-13, 12:23
I have a gen 2 G17 from 1996, totally stock. So far ejection has been good, but I admittedly have less that 1000 through it. When doing endless amounts of research, I decided to stick with the older gen 2 as most input seemed to infer that owners of these have reported less instances of issues (but not all, certainly). So far, so good, but I've still got a long way to go.
Negative.
2/6/2013 production Gen 4 G17. No malfunctions but holy CRAP does this thing WING cases into my face.
I only have 200 rounds on the gun so i am going to let it settle down a bit more before i start screwing around with parts.
Can you post your ejector p/n, mold number of your extractor, and the alphas of your ser#?
Also, the ammo you're shooting?
Ejector: 30274
There is no casting mark on my extractor but it appears to be a dip
0-2-4 Recoil Spring.
Serial # TXV
Ammo used:
115 grain WWB
115 grain Federal
115 grain Tula
115 grain PPU (The blue box stuff from wally world)
124 grain AE
147 grain AE
127 grain Winchester Ranger +P+
The 127 grain ranger pinged me so hard in the head it actually hurt.
No double feeds or failures to extract...yet...
Magic_Salad0892
02-13-13, 14:27
If you've never had brass burn you or get lodged in your shooting glasses you dont shoot enough.
One time when I was firing an AR, the brass bounced off the wall and I got it stuck between my glasses and my EYE.
It sucked. Lucky, I didn't get a scar.
The 127 grain ranger pinged me so hard in the head it actually hurt.
Glock should AT A MINIMUM add a BRASS DEFLECTOR to their stupid guns. :p
Glock should AT A MINIMUM add a BRASS DEFLECTOR to their stupid guns. :p
I hear it's cuming on their new carbine and 1911. :haha:
Thomas M-4
02-13-13, 18:36
I will try to give my thoughts on this. I have 2 gen3 G-19's the dates on the fired casings 5-14-12 & 9-20-12 ser number TBX & TTS. Both would do BTF using win 124 grain nato , blazer brass , WWB , & hornady critical duty 135 +p. There problably more I just can't remember , some times it would be once a mag sometimes 3-4 times a mag the rest of the time the ejection pattern was every were on the clock it would have been funny if it were not the fact I was wanting to depend on these pistols. After some research it seems like Glock is replacing the ejectors with the gen 4 ejector on pistols shipped back to them. I replaced both ejectors with the gen4 ejectors the BTF actually went away but the ejection pattern was still everywhere. Next step I tried the HRED the ejection distance seemed to improve but the pattern was still almost everywhere didn't get BTF but it was still everywhere else (I removed the HRED when I installed the apex kit). Waited on the apex extractor 3rd gen to be released picked up one installed it on the TBX ser # pistol the ejection pattern was greatly more consistent. I did have a FTE that would happen every 150-200 rds ( I believe this is caused by the extractor needing to fitted to this particular slide more on this later). After the promising performance I ordered a second apex extractor. This one was installed on the TTS ser# pistol first thing I noticed it seemed to be holding the case with more pressure than the first installation so far I have 450rds through this pistol with no FTE and very consistent ejection pattern I have only had 3 empties go to the 6oclock position 2 went over my head and the third went i between my arms.
Sorry for the long winded post.
have 2 P prefixed and one S prefixed glock 9's. The S is a g19 that has yet to BTF me but has admittedly weak extraction. We are talking like 1' to 1 1/2' out to 4 oclock. Other than lack of distance in extraction it has run like a champ with 0 stoppages in about 900rds. I cant find anymore 9mm that isnt astronomically priced, so my testing is hitting a wall.:(
Im looking to get a gen3 g17 to add to the mix. So if any of yah that are ready to throw yours out give me a pm.
I started with Gen1's in the eighties, skipped the Gen2's, and now own all Gen3's and Gen4's. I'm only buying Gen4's from here on, as they all, from the 26 to the 21, really feel great in my hand, and I've had great luck with function, so far.
Skip
Same here. Issued a Glock 17 in 1987. 19 in '89, 22 in '96 (hated that pistol, she and I never got along), 23 in 2002 and a smattering of different Glocks issued since then. I presently carry a issue G37GEN4 on duty(love this pistol-would love a G38GEN4 more). I LOVE THE GEN4's!!! Feel and fit for me is so much better than the other generations. I have several GEN4's and plan on getting more. I carry a G27GEN4 off duty now (Gave my G39 a rest) and may Carry a Issue G21GEN4 or G30GEN4 on duty soon. Many posts on these types of "PROBLEM GLOCK" threads fail to mention the ammo they were using. After attending many Glock Armorers courses, one thing that a lot of people fail to realize about the GEN4's and their RSA's, just like the original Glock 17 in 1987- They were designed for hotter ammo! The dual recoil RSA's were designed for Duty and +p+ ammo. Shooting the lighter loaded Walley World WWB and AE ammo will cause all the aforementioned issues that are posted in the Glock Forums. I will stick with my Glocks. I have tried them all after 30+ years in LE etc. I won't go into my rants about the other pistol manufacturers problems like -Trigger issues, parts availability, and cost.
Salamander
02-13-13, 23:22
Buy one and shoot it. Let the gun tell you what it's going to do, not the internet.
I bought one and shot it. I got one of the bad ones. It was very easy to sell to somebody more willing to tinker.
Same here. Issued a Glock 17 in 1987. 19 in '89, 22 in '96 (hated that pistol, she and I never got along), 23 in 2002 and a smattering of different Glocks issued since then. I presently carry a issue G37GEN4 on duty(love this pistol-would love a G38GEN4 more). I LOVE THE GEN4's!!! Feel and fit for me is so much better than the other generations. I have several GEN4's and plan on getting more. I carry a G27GEN4 off duty now (Gave my G39 a rest) and may Carry a Issue G21GEN4 or G30GEN4 on duty soon. Many posts on these types of "PROBLEM GLOCK" threads fail to mention the ammo they were using. After attending many Glock Armorers courses, one thing that a lot of people fail to realize about the GEN4's and their RSA's, just like the original Glock 17 in 1987- They were designed for hotter ammo! The dual recoil RSA's were designed for Duty and +p+ ammo. Shooting the lighter loaded Walley World WWB and AE ammo will cause all the aforementioned issues that are posted in the Glock Forums. I will stick with my Glocks. I have tried them all after 30+ years in LE etc. I won't go into my rants about the other pistol manufacturers problems like -Trigger issues, parts availability, and cost.
Yeah uh...cool, thank you for your 30 years of service.
In three years of shooting Glocks and almost 200k rounds through my guns i have had some serious issues that needed correction via aftermarket parts and one that needed the damned slide milled.
I have also shot a decent amount of 127 grain Winchester Ranger +P+ through the guns and and there are STILL issues so please dont give me that BS about the guns being DESIGNED for duty loads and thusly a weak load like WWB wont work.
IF this were the case and the spring was the culprit why does changing to a single stage 13-17 pound spring NOT alleviate the issues?
Guys, i LOVE my Glocks but brushing the issue under the rug is not fair, nor is disregarding the platform altogether. Acknowledge the issue and work past it via returns to Glock or aftermarket parts from Apex.
Yeah uh...cool, thank you for your 30 years of service.
In three years of shooting Glocks and almost 200k rounds through my guns i have had some serious issues that needed correction via aftermarket parts and one that needed the damned slide milled.
I have also shot a decent amount of 127 grain Winchester Ranger +P+ through the guns and and there are STILL issues so please dont give me that BS about the guns being DESIGNED for duty loads and thusly a weak load like WWB wont work.
IF this were the case and the spring was the culprit why does changing to a single stage 13-17 pound spring NOT alleviate the issues?
Guys, i LOVE my Glocks but brushing the issue under the rug is not fair, nor is disregarding the platform altogether. Acknowledge the issue and work past it via returns to Glock or aftermarket parts from Apex.
I am not giving you any BS. I am not saying there aren't Glock pistols out there that don't have problems. If there are, they will usually fix it "unless someone had Joe-Joe the Plumber work on it", or added aftermarket parts. Not to start a war, but adding different weight springs is not the answer. The pistols are designed for the springs they come with, adding different springs throws off the timing and a multitude of other issues. Have you contacted Glock? Sorry you had a Bad experience, I had some Bad experiences with Colt 1911's, Sig P220 elites, S&W M&P's, H&K MP5's. Guess what- I don't have them any more- But I don't go on their respective forums and bash them. If you have a problem with Glock call them. If they don't fix it- Simple solution- Sell it and get something else.
I am not bashing Glock, i am reporting the issues as i see them.
Glock fixed my problem by sending me three different RSA's. They then fixed the problem by telling me to go to an armorer to get a 30274 ejector.
They then fixed the problem by asking me to ship my pistol back to them on my dime.
Screw that, i shipped my pistol to Apex Tactical and ended up with a work horse...
To this day, despite the issues i am still shooting and loving my Glocks but there ARE issues and glossing over that fact is not the right thing to do.
In regard to changing the spring weights, factory spring weight for the Glock is 17 pounds. My guns didnt function with those spring weights either. Also, come on man, saying that a generation 4 gun cant work with a single stage spring is a bit of a stretch...
So far I have yet to see the almost mythical face in brass Glocks out there. So either they got the problems fixed or they are very few guns with the problem.
Pat
I have one that does it.
It works though so I'm not worried.
. Many posts on these types of "PROBLEM GLOCK" threads fail to mention the ammo they were using. After attending many Glock Armorers courses, one thing that a lot of people fail to realize about the GEN4's and their RSA's, just like the original Glock 17 in 1987- They were designed for hotter ammo! The dual recoil RSA's were designed for Duty and +p+ ammo. Shooting the lighter loaded Walley World WWB and AE ammo will cause all the aforementioned issues that are posted in the Glock Forums. I will stick with my Glocks. I have tried them all after 30+ years in LE etc. I won't go into my rants about the other pistol manufacturers problems like -Trigger issues, parts availability, and cost.
Glocks, or any competent 9mm pistol, should competently shoot and eject any 9mm ammo. The fact that some do and some don't means its a manufacturing defect. Blaming it on ammo that most other 9mm pistols run just fine is an excuse that just won't wash.
By all means, stick with Glocks. If you get a good one I'm sure it's a great firearm. But buying a pistol from a quality manufacturer shouldn't be a crap shoot as to whether you get one that functions properly.
/
I just got back from unboxing my new Gen 4 Glock 26. Test fire date 12/21/12, serial prefix UKW. Fired a mix of ammo. Results below.
100 rounds blazer aluminum 124gr FMJ - Ejected 2-4ft from me at 3-4 o'clock
50 rounds Speer 147gr Gold Dots - Ejected 4-5ft from me at 3 o'clock
100 rounds WWB 115gr FMJ - Ejected 1-3ft from me between 3 and 5 o'clock with three that went over my right shoulder.
It was very easy to see the ejection patterns of the different rounds as I was shooting on unmolested snow. It's obvious the WWB was the weakest ammo shot and possible that my grip had deteriorated by the time I got to it causing weaker ejection as well. Overall I'm happy with the guns performance out of the box and will continue to shoot it and see how it goes. I have a Gen 4 Glock 17 on the way with a test fire date in 11/2012 so hopefully I come away with two new trouble free glocks.
In regard to changing the spring weights, factory spring weight for the Glock is 17 pounds. My guns didnt function with those spring weights either. Also, come on man, saying that a generation 4 gun cant work with a single stage spring is a bit of a stretch...
Ok, your right, I just don't know what came over me. I hope you plan on using the right width & length Recoil spring rod. The slides on the GEN4's have different RSA recesses
- Let me know how ya make out with that.
Glocks, or any competent 9mm pistol, should competently shoot and eject any 9mm ammo. The fact that some do and some don't means its a manufacturing defect. Blaming it on ammo that most other 9mm pistols run just fine is an excuse that just won't wash.
By all means, stick with Glocks. If you get a good one I'm sure it's a great firearm. But buying a pistol from a quality manufacturer shouldn't be a crap shoot as to whether you get one that functions properly.
/
Okaayyy, Point taken. Silly me.
Ok, your right, I just don't know what came over me. I hope you plan on using the right width & length Recoil spring rod. The slides on the GEN4's have different RSA recesses
- Let me know how ya make out with that.
Wow...
You do realize they make conversion plugs right?
Would you like a picture?
I would just buy a new Gen-4 and it is almost certainly good. If it is not, which is very unlikely given how few complaints there are relative to the millions that they ship, then get warranty work.
I recently recommended to my partner who was looking for a 9mm handgun that he go with a Gen 4 Glock 19 after he found that he liked its handling best after shooting my various 9mm pistols. I made him fully aware that it might be a little bit of a crap shoot relative to erratic ejection. I also told him that if it did eject erratically, we could probably rectify that. He bought the pistol and, so far, it ejects just fine.
DAVID RICHARDS
02-16-13, 11:05
Look the whole a"hotter ammo" and "limp wristing" thing is an excuse Glock uses when people will believe it. They tried to say the same thing to the officers when the NYPD were having issues with their G19's. Evidently lots of NYPD officers were limp wristers according to Glock. Only when NYPD went to Ruger for bids on new guns did Glock get busy.
They set up a machine shop on sight at an NYPD facility after one of their engineers saw one of the guns jam in an officers hand. He immediately went to instruct the officer in proper shooting tachnique and the gun jammed for him. Glock has a history of sometimes denying problems. Early on the phone answering department threw this ammo thing out there. And lots of folks bought the whole "it's a military gun made for hot ammo blah, blah, blah...".
Sound Macho but it's bullshit! These people that are teaching these courses you would think would have read the Glock owners manual which states (if you want I'll qoute verse and chapter) "Glock firearms are made to shoot SAMI (should be SAMMI) and NATO spec ammo". WWB, Blazer brass, and all the others are all SAMMI spec. So before you teach a course read the damn owners manual! The fact is my older Glocks shoot the WWB and the cheaper ammo just fine. It's just been in the past couple of years these problems have appeared.
As others have mentioned 4-5 redesigns of the RSA's, new ejectors, and now non-dipped extractors, replacement guns and so on. Glock is not going through all this cost for a problem that doesn't exist or is a small number of guns. If it were a small number they would just fix those guns. The changing of parts indicates a design problem. The multiple attempts at fixing them indicates it is not just one cause. And the ones I've had problems with just threw hot +P+ ammo back at me harder as others have indicated.
Lets not forget they had to change the design in the early GEN4's because they didn't allow enough space in the frames for the new RSA's and the guns were shaving the frames! Doesn't indicate alot of testing went into engineering the guns. I'm not attacking anyone individually. The difficulty of the problems vary. Some of the guns are fixed with a few replacement parts. My last replacement gun before this one Glock simply told me "the gun cannot be fixed". It's replacement is at Randy Lee's right now. The first gun mentioned had problems out of the box. The second was good for 450 rounds before trouble.
I've followed this problem all the way through. The new guns do seem to offer a better chance of a good one than the older ones. But I'm still seeing way too many bad ones at my range. Also alot of the folks that shoot these guns won't fire more than 500 rounds for the life of the gun and may never see the problems. One replacement gun I had went 2000 rounds before acting up. As many others are reporting. Hotter ammo may hide some of the problems at least for awhile on the less F'd up guns. But to still be using the hotter ammo limpwristing excuse at this point is ignorant of the facts of the length Glock as gone to to make changes in these guns to get them to work. Again no personal insult intended but I see people getting beat up with great regularity by their new Glocks at the range.
With the current buying frenzy some are so new they don't even realize their guns should not be beating them up. If Glocks now need NATO spec ammo or +P+ to operate then it should state that in the manual. But according to what is written. "Made to function with SAMI OR NATO spec ammo". I would love to see someone read this from the owners manual to one of these instructors saying you need +P+ ammo to function a Glock. They didn't even try it on me when i called on my first one. I told them I shot NATO spec, +P, and +P+ ammo through it and had 42 years experience shooting so I was not limp wristing. They simply sent me a shipping label. Call their bluff! If the person your speaking with won't help climb the coporate ladder.
DAVID RICHARDS
02-16-13, 11:10
By the way. To if you would like to see the "mythical" BTF issue their are tons of video's of it on utube. Some from former people like yourself that did not believe in it either. One if them his didn't start until 1000 rounds. He started to do a video to repudiate such claims and then his gun started to abuse him half way through the video.
Okaayyy, Point taken. Silly me.
It's OK. When you're emotionally and financially invested in a given platform, it's easy to dismiss defects in that platform, especially if you're not one of the people suffering from that defect.
Thomas M-4
02-17-13, 04:33
In my opinion it's diffenatly something that cropped up on the newer gen pistols. I owned 2 different glock 17 gen2 or maybe gen1 not for sure both were police trade ins picked them up before the Clinton AWB. Since sold them years ago but neither one ever malfunctioned. And all I ever shot was cheapest factory ammo I could find. I do remember using a lot of the blazer aluminum case ammuntion and they never malfunctioned a lot of Wallyworld winchester white box went through them also. I was younger in those days and even tried some ammuntion that I would never wast money on in this day of age (glaser safety slugs and some other none sense that I can't remeber). Fast forward and now you buy I new one and there's a good chance that you have to work on it. The older ones never had super consistent ejection patterns but they didn't try to put your eyes out while shooting it neither and or just dribble the empty cases out.
5 G4s, no prob.
I'll defer to those who have access to larger samples.
jonconsiglio
02-17-13, 10:54
5 G4s, no prob.
I'll defer to those who have access to larger samples.
All of mine have been pretty good as well. But, I have handled a couple that belonged to friends that had issues.
Something I've noticed though (I'm not agreeing with Glock's assertion that it's limp-wristing) is that some of the "problem" guns I've seen we're not a problem in someone else's hands. I certainly believe there are issues with some Glocks, but it almost seems that a handful of them only have problems in certain shooters hands. Also, one I saw having problems at a class, the shooter had a firm grip and was using quality ammo. But, that same gun was fine in the hands of someone else.
I saw another that ejected straight back occasionally regardless of who was shooting it. My guess is some guns are truly in need of a fix but a good number of them are borderline and it only shows with certain shooters. They may not be limp wristing it, but their grip may just be different enough that it matters. Or, I just have no clue what I'm talking about.....which has happened before.
In the Panteao Productions online videos, Paul Howe gets pinged on the brim of his hat with his Glock 19 in the Advanced Pistol/Rifle video when during the drill with three or four cars (for those with a subscription).
Psalms144.1
02-17-13, 11:12
I think this is the source of my greatest frustration with this issue. There are so many perfectly fine G19s out there, even recent production guns, that when you get a string of bad ones, and Glock basically doesn't give a damn about the problems, it really feels like you're getting the shaft.
I had five bad G19s out of six, from early 2010 through early 2012. Three of those five were factory replacement guns - so I got lemons in replacement for lemons.
Then guys like Skintop & JHC have dozens of flawless pistols - so, what does Glock have against me? :mad: Seriously, I feel like Glock & HK have switched - Gaston says I suck and he hates me...
And, before the limp wristing, bad ammo excuses come out, the bad G19s were bad for MUTIPLE shooters, as in, every single person who tried them; and all the malfunctions occurred with NATO ball ammunition.
Regards,
Kevin
jonconsiglio
02-23-13, 09:32
Was out last night and shot my buddy's 19 gen 4. He's had it for at least six months, probably more like a year or two but I'll check. Of the first 8 rounds, 2 hit me in the forehead.
My gen 3 17 is still ejecting perfectly. Ran some Winchester Ranger T 147gr, SXT 147gr, Gold Dot 124gr and HST 124gr as well this past week and no issues.
Ammo was Winchester NATO in the 19. When I mentioned getting it fixed, he didn't even realize it was an issue. So, I might help out with that and see how it develops. I forgot to check the ejector number.
Just finished the armor recert and the 3 day Glock instructor workshop. Just speaking from personal experiences and things that I discussed during the course I will mention some things I noted and what I saw as I skimmed through this thread. Of course there was much more that I discussed but this is just some of the things.
- Glock now uses a process called nitration which is 99% rust free and at ~64 on the Rockwell hardness scale.
- Brass to face is real.
I cannot speak to any differences noted in a "dip" or non "dip" extractor and both worked the same in a pistol with current parts. I will also note that my G17 Gen4 with the non marked RSA and old extractor has brass to face issues with a dipped or non dipped extractor. Yes I purposely left these parts in my pistol and have ran waay too many rounds through it.
I was told that all newest models have the newer parts but who is to say that some of the weapons didn't have some that have older parts mixed in? I do know that parts are hard to come by, so if you get a NIB pistol I suggest having it looked at closely to ensure that nothing was changed or swapped out by some person after it left Glock. I do know that if you send your pistol in at this time, everything internally is changed, needed or not.
The 3 day (actually 2.5 days or 20 hours) Glock Shooting Instructor course had 15 very experienced shooters with multiple instructor certs behind them. Glock provided all shooters with new late model serial # G17 Gen 4's. All had the most up to date part #'s that I will list below. All shooters fired in the range of 1500 + rounds per pistol. This may sound exaggerated, but I personally did not witness a single issue nor did I hear anyone complain of any the entire course.
Some of the Current Gen 4 parts #'s
RSA
G17/34 Gen 4 Marked 0-2-4 Part # SP 08284
G19 Gen 4 Marked 0-4-3 Part # 8703
G22/35 Gen 4 Marked 0-1-4 Part # SP 07577
Extractor
9mm Loaded Chamber Indicator LCI (15 degree) - Part # 1895 (use only with 2714 spring loaded bearing)
.40S&W Loaded Chamber Indicator LCI (15 & 5 degree) - Part #1899 (use only with 3439 spring loaded bearing)
Ejector
They replace the entire trigger mechanism housing and not just the ejector.
9mm - TMH w/ 336 ejector
.40 - TMH w/ 1882 ejector
Also Glock for the first time in history just went over 1 million pistols backorder as of last week. They are at a current production rate of 1 million pistols in a year, however they are still getting orders weekly that exceed their production numbers. So for those wanting to see new things from Glock, isn't really gonna happen anytime soon as they cannot keep up with current production.
Glock has a history of sometimes denying problems.
G30SF FTRB ;)
madisonsfinest
02-24-13, 19:36
Thanks for the info Surf. I have a G4 19 that pegs me in the forehead and I will check my parts against those you've listed. I believe my ejector was newer than the 336. Mine starts TCG.... I have the 043 RSA, & 30274 ejector
thebarracuda
02-24-13, 20:38
I have a TKK g19, end of June test. It has been performed flawlessly thus far. Mostly shooting cheap bulk 115 gr fmj. Ran some reloads through it, no problems.
thebarracuda
02-24-13, 20:38
Gen 3 TKK g19
By the way. To if you would like to see the "mythical" BTF issue their are tons of video's of it on utube. Some from former people like yourself that did not believe in it either. One if them his didn't start until 1000 rounds. He started to do a video to repudiate such claims and then his gun started to abuse him half way through the video.
I have two early gen 2's (?) a 19 from 1989 and a 17 from 1990 that both give occasional BTF. They function fine as long as you don't mind a few cases to the forehead.
glad i read this, looking for a new glock now and being a lucky guy living in CA i can't get a gen 4 here as they're not on the "approved" list yet. i suppose i'll have to track down a gen 2 now
G34Shooter
02-24-13, 23:56
My experience is 50/50 so far with my made in 2012 Gen 4 9mm Glocks. My Gen 4 G19 had erratic ejection from day 1 with various types of ammo until I fixed it with Apex Tactical Specialties extractor but my Gen 4 G17 is still being broke in but has not had erratic ejection so far.
G34Shooter
02-24-13, 23:58
glad i read this, looking for a new glock now and being a lucky guy living in CA i can't get a gen 4 here as they're not on the "approved" list yet. i suppose i'll have to track down a gen 2 now
Again
That is untrue as I have two via Single Shot Exemption, go to Calguns and read up on it but please do not spread that untruth anymore.
In fact I pre-sold two Gen 4's yesterday at the shop.
G34Shooter
02-25-13, 00:11
Same here. Issued a Glock 17 in 1987. 19 in '89, 22 in '96 (hated that pistol, she and I never got along), 23 in 2002 and a smattering of different Glocks issued since then. I presently carry a issue G37GEN4 on duty(love this pistol-would love a G38GEN4 more). I LOVE THE GEN4's!!! Feel and fit for me is so much better than the other generations. I have several GEN4's and plan on getting more. I carry a G27GEN4 off duty now (Gave my G39 a rest) and may Carry a Issue G21GEN4 or G30GEN4 on duty soon. Many posts on these types of "PROBLEM GLOCK" threads fail to mention the ammo they were using. After attending many Glock Armorers courses, one thing that a lot of people fail to realize about the GEN4's and their RSA's, just like the original Glock 17 in 1987- They were designed for hotter ammo! The dual recoil RSA's were designed for Duty and +p+ ammo. Shooting the lighter loaded Walley World WWB and AE ammo will cause all the aforementioned issues that are posted in the Glock Forums. I will stick with my Glocks. I have tried them all after 30+ years in LE etc. I won't go into my rants about the other pistol manufacturers problems like -Trigger issues, parts availability, and cost.
LOL if you think that it's shooter error for erratic ejection and brass to the face. When I did my testing I shot every commercial ammo I could find locally from 115gr to 147gr +p HST and had less problems with carry ammo but not the way it should eject. Since I've owned about 10 glocks previously I guarantee it's not a user error.
Going with the Gen 4 .357 SIGs for my next Glock purchases.
Is it the 32 which is closest in comparo, size-wise to the G19?
Code3Patriot
02-28-13, 00:14
Is it the 32 which is closest in comparo, size-wise to the G19?
Correct. The G32 is a compact, same as the G19 and G23.
I just got back from unboxing my new Gen 4 Glock 26. Test fire date 12/21/12, serial prefix UKW. Fired a mix of ammo. Results below.
100 rounds blazer aluminum 124gr FMJ - Ejected 2-4ft from me at 3-4 o'clock
50 rounds Speer 147gr Gold Dots - Ejected 4-5ft from me at 3 o'clock
100 rounds WWB 115gr FMJ - Ejected 1-3ft from me between 3 and 5 o'clock with three that went over my right shoulder.
It was very easy to see the ejection patterns of the different rounds as I was shooting on unmolested snow. It's obvious the WWB was the weakest ammo shot and possible that my grip had deteriorated by the time I got to it causing weaker ejection as well. Overall I'm happy with the guns performance out of the box and will continue to shoot it and see how it goes. I have a Gen 4 Glock 17 on the way with a test fire date in 11/2012 so hopefully I come away with two new trouble free glocks.
Just wanted to post a quick update, got a couple hundred more through the glock 26 with no issues(didn't shoot anymore WWB and don't plan too) and put a few hundred through the glock 17 after it arrived last week, also with no issues. Shot a mix of blazer aluminum 124gr FMJ, and Speer 147gr GDHP and both loads in both guns showed strong ejection in the 3-4 O'clock area.
Today a friend and I shot 300 rds through his new Glock. All brass ejected to the right of the gun and landed in the same place. Nothing over the head or over the shoulder or to the face. It was like shooting a BHP ejection wise. I was impressed.
I didn't read to many posts in this thread. I'm just posting my experience.
All my Glock's were bought new and are/were Gen 3 models. My first Glock was in 1999. It was a G22 40 S&W (D ser. #). Then in 2003 I bought a G27 40 S&W (I think it was a F ser. #). I bought a factory G31 357 Sig barrel and a Lone Wolf Distributor 9mm Conversion barrel for my G22. I really liked how the 9mm barrel shot so I bought a G34 9mm (S ser. #) last year. I sold my G27 and bought a G26 9mm (R ser. #). I shoot the 9mm faster and better. Plus it a lot cheaper. A Gen 3 G19 9mm is next.
Anyway's all my Glocks have anywhere from 500 to 10,000 rounds fired through them and other then Trijicon Night Sights, grip plugs for the heck of it. Some new magazines springs & followers and a recoil spring as preventive maintenance, all are stock and have been absolutely flawless and 100% trouble free. They are the most reliable firearms I've ever owned or have been around. They just work and work great.
Good luck, NYH1.
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