View Full Version : School me on limp wristing and how to correct it. G26
Tried searching, didn't really find what I was looking for.
Took my boys (15 and 12) shooting on Saturday. When my younger boy was shooting the g26, he'd have a FTE about every 5-10 rounds. Between myself and my boys, we collectively put around 250 rounds thru the g26. My 15y/o and myself had no issues, it only happened to my younger boy. So I just guess that him being smaller and weaker might have been the cause. Odd thing was that this didn't happen at all to him with the g17. We were all using same ammo, same mags.
If limp wrist is his issue, how would I instruct him to correct his grip? I would think holding with a death grip would be counter-productive.
He might only be 12 but he's no slouch. 50 12gauge shots at clays with only minimal bruising.
I recently bought the g26 as a carry gun with added bonus that it'd fit his hands perfect when we're on our shooting trips.
TriviaMonster
01-28-13, 18:15
We need to see his grip in order to correct it. Snap a picture of him holding it up close and let the wizards do their magic.
Its funny how we never traded a little bit of freedom of religion after the Jonestown Massacre.
theblackknight
01-28-13, 18:16
I win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCfHYdyhw0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCfHYdyhw0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Just what I was looking for. Thank you. I'll have him watch this and if still has issues will take some pics/video of him shooting for diagnosis.
Man up...j/k
That's what I told him lol. He runs 6min mile though. I haven't been able to beat that for 10 years. Pretty soon he'll be kickin my A too.
More than likely, as he gets a bit older he won't have any problem, but still want to help him now.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-28-13, 18:57
It is basically something made up to excuse jams in 1911s and Glocks.
Littlelebowski
01-28-13, 19:05
It is basically something made up to excuse jams in 1911s and Glocks.
This.
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QuickStrike
01-28-13, 19:08
Really? For 1911's? I thought it's a polymer thing...
I've had it happen with an M&P and g19 when I let other people shoot them.
It is basically something made up to excuse jams in 1911s and Glocks.
I understand and agree. My wife should be able to shoot the Glock should defensive need arise without issue, so should my boy for that matter.
Maineshooter
01-28-13, 21:18
That video was a pretty decent representation of what the grip should look like. I just put several groups of people through a qualification course. All of the weapons were Glock 36s and the majority of the shooters were not familiar with that weapon. Most of them, partially due to large body mass, had no problem controlling the gun. A couple of small frame shooters, one of which are also working with for recoil anticipation as well, had constant FTEs.
It took some work but we got them where they need to be. You really have to get them to grip the weapon as high as possible and also watch closely what their left had is doing. I watched one of the smaller shooters completely lifting her weak side fingers away from the side, instead of using a good, solid thumbs forward and putting all available real estate on the frame. We got the stragglers shooting by the end of the session but it wasn't easy. Especially when they have been shooting full framed glock 21s for the past five years. All that extra mass can make you lazy with form. I had a very experienced instructor tell me that weighted plates on the bottom of the mags can help as well as trying out different guide rod options.
Sometimes you do have to wratchet up the grip on these light powerhouse pistols to a point where it approaches a crush grip.
Sometimes you do have to wratchet up the grip on these light powerhouse pistols to a point where it approaches a crush grip.[/QUOTE]
This might be why he didn't experience any fte with the g17, only the g26? He was also missing slightly low. Recoil anticipation? Thanks
His grip isn't trained/strengthened enough to hang on to the G26 compared the G17. Compacts demand a little more user control than fullsize.
For an eye opener, shoot your G17 and G26 single hand. That will illustrate the difference in each gun's behavior. Put 50rds through each to get fatigued enough to feel the stress of the grip and where it feels strongest/weakest.
ETA: Instruct him on the proper technique for holding. Also have him slightly lean forward into the gun. This small thing makes a nice difference in control "over" the handgun.
thopkins22
01-28-13, 23:53
One of the things that helped me, was shooting the gun looking AT the gun not the front sight(or the sights at all for that matter.) Watch the gun recoil...try it slow and fast. With a little knowledge regarding where to get your hands it'll start to click.
Make sure you're shooting into the berm, but don't even worry about putting a target up.
That's counterintuitive to most of what we hear, but I heard it from somebody that's scary good with a handgun...I don't recall who but it's a name you'd all recognize.
Take that knowledge and learn to track the sights, which will now be easier as they move straight back at you and forward again as opposed to the arc that they used to take.
I realize this was regarding fixing a limp wrist as opposed to shooting fast, but in my opinion the knowledge of how to do it correctly and quickly will fix that without actually addressing it.
Crow Hunter
01-29-13, 08:14
"Limp wrist" has less to do with grip strength than where the gun is gripped.
Most new shooters who "limp wrist" are afraid of the moving slide and they try to get their hands as far down on the grip as they can and still reach the trigger. This gives allows the gun to have more "leverage" on the grip and means it can move back farther than it should for proper cycling. This is made worse by using low impulse target rounds and usually a new tight gun.
Have him "choke up" on the gun and get closer to the slide. Show him that it won't hurt him first. You will be surprised how much of an improvement this will make even with just a 2 finger grip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCfHYdyhw0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That is a very good video. The only thing I would add for smaller frame shooters is to think about the push-pull technique. You push out with the strong hand and pull back with the support hand using isometric tension to control the recoil. It's important that the pressure is in line with the bore. The thumbs gently rest along the support side of the pistol without any pressure applied to the grip by the thumbs. The "drum sticks" where the palms meet the thumbs touch when possible. This prevents overgripping the pistol.
A loose grip robs energy from the pistol slide during the firing sequence. The better recoil control you have the less likely you will have a shooter induced malfunction with most pistols.
Spurholder
01-29-13, 10:48
Nevermind.
My wife has this problem with her Bodyguard .380. I can shoot an entire box without a misfeed, but she continues to experience them, and I know it's all in her grip. She's not creating stable enough 'platform' for the recoil to allow it to function properly.
She can shoot my Glock 19 all day long without issue. It's just when she gets into that smaller caliber.
Shared the video with her.
My 14yr old son had this problem this weekend when shooting my G17. He did not have a high solid grip and had many FTE's. I showed him a proper grip, again and again. He finally got it and no more FTE's. Good video by the way
My dad always taught me at 7 to hold onto your handgun tight like you want to choke the life out of it... Never had any problems due to limp-wristing.
I've only shot a couple of Glocks too though...
Some good info. Thanks all. My son watched the video and is anxious to go try what he learned.
Forgot to mention the whole of his advice - choke the life out of it until it starts affecting sight picture (IE - grabbing so tight that you're shaking), then let up just enough to get a steady aim.. sorry - had to clarify...
The whole "limp wristing" thing is a bit of a phenomenon to me.
It does exist in some form, and I have seen it first hand: a young girl that has 100% malfunctions (textbook stovepipes every shot) in a pistol that gives me 0%.
I have tested this further a couple of times by taking a grip with only my thumb and ring finger with just enough tension to keep the pistol from recoiling out of my hand and onto the deck. I did it upside down and sideways with no malfunctions, yet the girl with a structured, two hand hold experienced malfunction after malfunction.
This leads me to believe that it is an upper body strength/total body mass Issue? I'm not sure, but that is my experience with this weird thing.
Dunderway, your post made me think of this as you describe holding the gun differently. I wonder, does the energy of the recoil have a linear direction..ie only kicking the front end up? Or is there some torsional energy involved as well where the gun would also want to twist in one's grip as well as muzzle rise?
The image I have in mind is the videos of the semi trucks drag racing up a narrow two lane road. The torque of the engines upon acceleration is s powerful and violent that it lifts the front corner and tire off the ground a it tries to put power to the ground.
Overall, new shooters don't have the fine stability control that experienced shooters do (think of it like the comparison of lifting weights with free weights vs machines). I think it would be hard for an experienced shooter to replicate grip failures simply because their muscles already know how to control the recoil. Which I think would be the case as you couldn't replicate a failure but a new shooter would induce them.
"Limp wrist" has less to do with grip strength than where the gun is gripped.
Most new shooters who "limp wrist" are afraid of the moving slide and they try to get their hands as far down on the grip as they can and still reach the trigger. This gives allows the gun to have more "leverage" on the grip and means it can move back farther than it should for proper cycling. This is made worse by using low impulse target rounds and usually a new tight gun.
Have him "choke up" on the gun and get closer to the slide. Show him that it won't hurt him first. You will be surprised how much of an improvement this will make even with just a 2 finger grip.
Great post.
The lower the grip, the more push and pull a pistol will have in terms of generating force. You don't have to over grip a pistol, but hand placement is absolutely key.
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