View Full Version : New-to-me Sig P220's
So went by a LGS last week and they had these babies. Picked them up for $1040 OTD. I haven't seen any online for under $700 so I knew for $500 each I should probably get them both. Both are stamped "Made in W. Germany" the top one was made in '92 and the bottom made in '95. The '92 has good night sights, factory grips, one factory mag and no box. The '95 has dead night sights, houge grips, 3 factory mags, original box and paperwork and was only $30 more. Haven't fired them yet because ammo is so scarce and expensive that I broke down and ordered the equipment to get into reloading, which will probably take two weeks to show up and I'll still need the components (brass, powder, ect.) so it'll probably be a month before I get some ammo cranked out and get to a range.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/148379_10151400415435219_654739319_n.jpg
W. German goodness
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/398055_10151400412975219_267793816_n.jpg
The hammer on the '95 gun was not behaving normally when I dry-fired it; rattling around, bouncing when fired and sometimes not resetting so I knew something wasn't right (should have noticed that in the gun store...). I detail stripped the frame and found out the hammer return spring was broken. The guns are about 20 years old so going through and replacing the springs is probably a good idea.
While I'm replacing the springs I was thinking about swapping out the old hammer strut assembly for the newer style so that I can put on some factory slim grips. Any reason I can't or shouldn't do this? I'd also like to improve the triggers. I've seen the drop-in SRT kit midway sells but the reviews said it didn't improve the pull weight, just shortened the reset. Is there a drop-in kit that would do both or am I stuck sending it in for a lighter pull? Maybe combine the midway kit with a lighter hammer spring?
So went by a LGS last week and they had these babies. Picked them up for $1040 OTD. I haven't seen any online for under $700 so I knew for $500 each I should probably get them both. Both are stamped "Made in W. Germany" the top one was made in '92 and the bottom made in '95. The '92 has good night sights, factory grips, one factory mag and no box. The '95 has dead night sights, houge grips, 3 factory mags, original box and paperwork and was only $30 more. Haven't fired them yet because ammo is so scarce and expensive that I broke down and ordered the equipment to get into reloading, which will probably take two weeks to show up and I'll still need the components (brass, powder, ect.) so it'll probably be a month before I get some ammo cranked out and get to a range.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/148379_10151400415435219_654739319_n.jpg
W. German goodness
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/398055_10151400412975219_267793816_n.jpg
The hammer on the '95 gun was not behaving normally when I dry-fired it; rattling around, bouncing when fired and sometimes not resetting so I knew something wasn't right (should have noticed that in the gun store...). I detail stripped the frame and found out the hammer return spring was broken. The guns are about 20 years old so going through and replacing the springs is probably a good idea.
While I'm replacing the springs I was thinking about swapping out the old hammer strut assembly for the newer style so that I can put on some factory slim grips. Any reason I can't or shouldn't do this? I'd also like to improve the triggers. I've seen the drop-in SRT kit midway sells but the reviews said it didn't improve the pull weight, just shortened the reset. Is there a drop-in kit that would do both or am I stuck sending it in for a lighter pull?
Solid find(s)
Solid find(s)
Yeah I'm pretty happy with them. I've always like the look of the sig P22x guns and I've wanted one for a while. At first I was only going to buy one but after checking around online I went back for the other. I'm more of a glock fanboy though so I don't see these becoming my primary defensive weapons. I'll probably try to swap one of them for a W. German sig 9mm down the road.
The SRT kits dont lighten the pull. They improve the reset. I have installed 3 kits. One on a P228 the others on P239s. The kit greatly improved the 228 and one of the 239's.
The 220's I have owned have all had pretty good resets. No need for the SRT in them.
You can lighten the trigger pull by installing a lighter spring. Wolff sells these. I put one in a P228 and got light primer strikes. I had to switch back to the factory spring.
You may want to grease up the trigger bar and leave the mainsprings alone if these are to used for social purposes.
I have a P220 from 95. Regular white dot sights (SIG version). Never a problem with the gun, NO FTE, FTF etc.... I only have the 2 mags that came with the gun. I have decided not to invest in it (mags or new sights) and am looking to find a buyer. Good pistol, I have decided to invest in the 1911 for a .45 instead.
Weak or broken hammer return springs is not an uncommon thing with the 220, seen rarely on the 226/228. This spring can set the stage for a pistol that might fire when dropped. Best returned to the factory for a thorough going over.
220's are some of the sweetest shooting Sigs... I regret like hell selling my older W German.
brickboy240
01-29-13, 11:35
I have a Browning BDA 45 that my uncle willed me years ago. It was made in 1977. This is basically the Euro version of the P220. Made in W. Germany before SIG got their importer license and used Browning's to get them in the USA.
Supposedly, Browning only brought these BDAs in from 1977 to 1979 and these are fairly rare.
It is a pretty decent shooter and very reliable.
I know many see the P220 as the most problematic of the old W. German P-series SIGs but mine has never given a lick of trouble. Admittedly, I don't carry it or run tons of ammo through it.
Enjoy those P220s...they are nice guns.
-brickboy240
LMT Shooter
01-30-13, 22:28
The SRT kits dont lighten the pull. They improve the reset. I have installed 3 kits. One on a P228 the others on P239s. The kit greatly improved the 228 and one of the 239's.
The 220's I have owned have all had pretty good resets. No need for the SRT in them.
You can lighten the trigger pull by installing a lighter spring. Wolff sells these. I put one in a P228 and got light primer strikes. I had to switch back to the factory spring.
You may want to grease up the trigger bar and leave the mainsprings alone if these are to used for social purposes.
A factory rep (don't remember his name) told me you couldn't put the SRT kit into the older guns, I assume he was talking about doing it as a drop-in installation. Was he full of shit or did you have to modify the frame?
A factory rep (don't remember his name) told me you couldn't put the SRT kit into the older guns, I assume he was talking about doing it as a drop-in installation. Was he full of shit or did you have to modify the frame?
The drop in triggers that Sig sells as drop-in's are for the new P220's that have a wider trigger than the older models. If you send your old on in to Sig's custom shop they can do it and there are other smiths that can do it to the older guns. The midway kit I believe is available for the older guns.
Speaking of older 220's, if one bought a caliber exchange kit like the currently available, .45 Carry top end, could that be dropped on an older 220?
DocCasualty
01-31-13, 01:11
Great deal, indeed. Congrats!
I have had a '95 "W. German" (which has always struck me as weird, as unification had already occurred) P220 since buying it new. I couldn't speak more highly about a pistol. It was after this period that the P220s ran into some problems for awhile to my knowledge. I believe all of the "Made in W. Germany" pistols are known for being well made.
I've only used the 7-round factory and 7-round Mec-Gar mags with mine and all have been flawless. Funny I saw your post as I was looking online tonight to see if I could pick up any anywhere. Maybe I'll try to resurface that search after the current panic buying subsides.
Weak or broken hammer return springs is not an uncommon thing with the 220, seen rarely on the 226/228. This spring can set the stage for a pistol that might fire when dropped. Best returned to the factory for a thorough going over.
I sent my later model sig back for their package back around Thanksgiving(the service package where they replace all of the springs and wear parts and put new night sights on). Mine had the internal extractor as well. They decided to upgrade the extractor. Meaning they replaced my slide with a new one with the external extractor. I called sig on this when I noticed it and they kept claiming they didn't replace the slide because it wasn't marked on my order and couldn't tell me why. Interesting they shipped me the parts from the old slide, just not the old slide. The Gunsmith comments on the service order have a mark for "Upgraded the extractor." on them though.
From reading online it sounds like they had some massive issues with the internal extractors and replaced mine in an attempt to make sure it is reliable(never had a problem with mine before hand). I'll be honest I haven't had a chance to shoot it since getting it back in December(I've been very busy and didn't have it 2 times I went to the range as it was more on a whim).
In my case as long as my gun stays reliable I don't care. If you are happy with the made in Germany on the slide though you may want to ensure they either will not replace your slide to upgrade the extractor or get the parts and replace the wear parts yourself(or have someone else do it).
So a little update: the '95 is in pieces and the new springs are ordered along with one new mainspring/hammer strut assembly so that I can install slim grips whenever TGS gets them back in stock. I've been reading rumors of an E2 grip for the P220 but it sounds like that is vaporware for the time being.
Still waiting for my lee classic turret press setup to ship...
Psalms144.1
01-31-13, 09:41
Bigghoss - back in the day when I was carrying Sig classics, I installed "DAK" mainsprings in my DA/SA P226. IIRC, it's about 1/2 pound lighter than standard. In my guns, this resulted in a minor but noticeable reduction in pull weight, with no reliability issues...
Regards,
Kevin
Early P220s and Browning BDAs didn't have a hammer return spring at all. This can generally be determined easily if the weapon has a spur hammer, Since round hammer P220s have the return spring. These early spur hammer models posed a problem when improperly decocked as the hammer would rest flush against the firing pin, bypassing the hammer intercept notch. Dropping them in this condition would cause a discharge.
I've never seen or heard of one discharging that wasn't improperly decocked. The P220 like all P series, has a firing pin block that is actuated by pulling the trigger and a hammer intercept notch that keeps the hammer from resting flush on the firing pin. Dropping the weapon generally won't bypass the firing pin block, unless it was improperly decocked, broken return spring or not.
Weak or broken hammer return springs is not an uncommon thing with the 220, seen rarely on the 226/228. This spring can set the stage for a pistol that might fire when dropped. Best returned to the factory for a thorough going over.
A factory rep (don't remember his name) told me you couldn't put the SRT kit into the older guns, I assume he was talking about doing it as a drop-in installation. Was he full of shit or did you have to modify the frame?
The SRT kit is just a modified sear and safety lever. The kit for the P239 uses a different trigger spring as well. They should function fine in the older guns.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-31-13, 13:50
Weak or broken hammer return springs is not an uncommon thing with the 220, seen rarely on the 226/228. This spring can set the stage for a pistol that might fire when dropped. Best returned to the factory for a thorough going over.
I think that's the issue I'm having now. I been throwing springs at is left and right.
Bigghoss - back in the day when I was carrying Sig classics, I installed "DAK" mainsprings in my DA/SA P226. IIRC, it's about 1/2 pound lighter than standard. In my guns, this resulted in a minor but noticeable reduction in pull weight, with no reliability issues...
Regards,
Kevin
Maybe I'll give that a shot on the '92. Already ordered a new mainspring for the '95.
TriviaMonster
02-02-13, 05:05
Solid find(s)
You quoted that rather lengthy OP just to say two words? Crazy kids.
Anyways, good luck OP in your reloading venture. Sounds like you have a lot on your plate.
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Anyways, good luck OP in your reloading venture. Sounds like you have a lot on your plate.
Thanks. I've been looking into getting into reloading for a few years now so I bought a copy of The ABC's of Reloading a couple years ago and read cover-to-cover. The recent buying frenzy and .45 ammo being over $20 a box is what finally pushed me over.
As for my plate; I'm single, no kids, work 13 hours days 3-4 days a week so my plate didn't have much on it to start with. What better use of my time and money than rescuing neglected guns? It's just what I do when I can't get no lovin', and lately I ain't gettin' no lovin' at all.
Update a year and a half later...
Sold the '95 after replacing all the springs in the frame and putting slim grips on it. Broke even on it. The '92 I put in new springs and slim grips but I had to change so many parts to get the new style MS assembly to work. I ended up replacing most of the parts in the frame to get the slim grips on there but it was a good excuse to install the SRT kit since I had to buy 2 of the three parts in the kit anyway. So now I have a W. German gun with slim grips and SRT as well as a good understanding of the workings of Sig pistols. So now I need some more...
One issue I discovered is that I can't keep from bumping the slide stop so the gun won't lock open on an empty mag unless I tuck my dominate thumb under my support palm. I really don't like shooting like that but I think I might be able to trim the slide lock lever down a hair so I can use the same grip as all my other guns.
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