View Full Version : Trying to find ideal light setup....
Derek_Connor
03-06-08, 15:22
Ive come to a conclusion after many reloads practiced and the last 3 weekends of shooting that my carbine is heavy, almost too heavy. I need to cut some weight and I think the M900 has to go. Its big, bulky, and freaking bright. But, there are lights that can do just as much at 80% of the weight.
So my plans were to remove the M900, and put a P61 bulb in my G2 with a clicky tail cap, and then mounting it in a larue mount. That gives me about 120lumens? And only 20minutes of run time, which does not concern as me as I have time to switch out batteries...
This also opens up getting a shorty tango down VG, which I also like to use as it allows my hand to grip the rail/grip at the same time...
Anyone else run a similar setup? If so, consensus?
I have one of Grant's G2 "package deals" with the "shock" bezel and the clickable tailcap, mounted in a Vltor light mount.
I like the setup quite a bit. I don't think the shock bezel is any brighter than the stocker, so I'm not sure what I have is a 1:1 with what you're trying to do.
Derek_Connor
03-06-08, 15:48
I have one of Grant's G2 "package deals" with the "shock" bezel and the clickable tailcap, mounted in a Vltor light mount.
I like the setup quite a bit. I don't think the shock bezel is any brighter than the stocker, so I'm not sure what I have is a 1:1 with what you're trying to do.
I think its similar, after looking at grants website.
I know it wont be as bright as the M900, but it will be damn close I believe inregards to lumens. But definitely alot less weight..
Is the shock bezel a worthwhile upgrade? I dont plan on beating through windows with my rifle...
I don't know if the bezel is needed or not. The whole package was around $100, so I just went for it. I figured better to have and not need than vice versa.
Derek_Connor
03-06-08, 16:04
I don't know if the bezel is needed or not. The whole package was around $100, so I just went for it. I figured better to have and not need than vice versa.
understood, didn't know if the brighter bulbs were more susceptible to breaking vs the standard lumen bulbs or not
I dont shoot lowlight that often, but with 2 classes coming up with night shoots this month, I want it to be damn bright, and light
Have you given thought to using a X300? I bought a few and I'm about to order some LaRue mounts for them. So far I like them.
Derek_Connor
03-06-08, 16:09
Have you given thought to using a X300? I bought a few and I'm about to order some LaRue mounts for them. So far I like them.
Ironic you mentioned that, I just bought an X300 this afternoon from Neil. But its for the 1911....
Ive heard many reports of people feeling that they are strong enough to be on a primary
But no, i haven't thought of getting one for the carbine...didn't know larue made mounts for them either...
Check 'em out...
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=205
I have an X300 sitting on my coffee table to put on.... well I can't remember what I bought it for now. The light does appear to be smarter than me however, as I don't seem to be able to figure out which mount is for what rail or how to adjust either mount to allow the light to slide on and off easily from anything.
But, it is a nice light and I think I bought it with the intention of mounting on my AK. FWIW.
Adaptor marked "P" is for 1913 rails, the other one marked "U" is universal/Glock spec. The Glock locking bar is a little more narrow IIRC. It will lock on 1913s with a little wobble, whereas the 1913 spec one will not lock onto a Glock.
Some X200As and all the Bs I think had an allen screw on the back of the left side attached to a wedge for tightening on the gun if using the crossbolt-style mount. I have a 200A with and one without the screw, and all my B models have them. Neither of my 300s have it, though.
For using the pull-tab plate I think you just have to break it in.
Also, make sure to use the cotter pin to keep the battery door closed under recoil.
The X300 is amazing. Puts out a lot of light in such a little package.
I am running a G2 w/ p60 lamp and shock bezel in a VTAC mount, and a TD stubby. I get 60 lumens and an hour runtime. When I get my stamp back this G2 will go on my 10.5LMT and get a P60L lamp, led with 80 lumens and 12 hours runtime. This will be an CBQ setup, and I find 80 lumens to be quite enough in close spaces, especially if there are white walls, etc. On my 16"middy will go another G2 and VTAC mount or the new VLTOR that looks similar but is aluminum instead of polymer. It will have a P90 lamp and 9v adapter for better throw and 105 lumens for 1 hour. A more general purpose role.
I like the stubby TD grip. I made my own by cutting down, shaping, and gluing the cap in place of the full size I had. I'll pick another up for the new upper too. I found I never used the battery storage in it anyway, and after taking Pat's Carbine class, I adopted a higher VFG hold with thumb and index finger along the rail, leaving the bottom of the grip unused. Plus I'm always looking to shave some weight, and while it wa only maybe an ounce, it is out there at the muzzle, and it does add up. :D
I think you are making a good choice!
-RD62
How about the G2 with an LED head in an Vltor or DD mount?
Derek- I'm not going to say I told you so now but remember back when you were asking about painting tips and I said I thought you put a little too much on? :D
Derek_Connor
03-06-08, 18:48
How about the G2 with an LED head in an Vltor or DD mount?
Derek- I'm not going to say I told you so now but remember back when you were asking about painting tips and I said I thought you put a little too much on? :D
yeah..i remember..
what would the LED head do for me?
I had a M900 and didn't like the bulk and weight. Sold it 2 yrs ago.
Since then, I've used:
-6P (Z32 bezel) mounted using a VLTOR scout mount and with a MI FSB mount at 9 oclock
-Gladius mounted similar
-E2 mounted similar to above, using VLTOR E series mount
-X200B on the FSB rail/mount
Out of all the above, the 6v lights works great for inside, and the Gladius for outside.
An X300 might be a good do-it-all light.
I have found that I want more lumens for outside work, so I have on order (from Grant) a 9P with a HO-9 bulb. I'll use a Z32 with it. That's a lot of lumens (350?).
I missed the LED lights from the M900, so I taped a red LED microlight to the handguard at 6 oclock to use as a navigation light. Works great.
Someone mentioned a shock isolated bezel. There's no need for one with any decent LED- they are shock isolated themselves. Plus if you get a good LED they are usually MUCH brighter than standard G2 bulbs.
I took some camera phone pics of my G&R light yesterday just for shits and grins. When I bought mine, LEDs weren't really an option, hence the shock-isolated bezel.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/1204910902.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/1204910878.jpg
I have had a M900a for a long time and I also becagn to look at it as an over weight solution. The M900a definite has an excellent feature set and the power of the light is just right for carbines.
A few years back when I built my Sabre mid-length I went with one of Grant's Scout style WG6D lights it has the smaller lighter E style body with the built in P60 lamp adapter. It's very lightweight and the P60 usable out to about 25 yards outside and more than adequate for indoor use.
I'm going to update it with one of the Malkoff CREE LED or the new Surefire, Don't remember the exact model, CREE upgrade. I'm waiting to see how the Surefire lamp will priced before buying one. The Malkoff or new Surefire LED lamp should bump this light up to the more than the 120 lumen lamp I'm using in my M900a.
The biggest issue for me was light placement, for a long time I obsessed abuout the best place to put the light but then I finally realized that there is no one perfect location which will allow you to use the light with both hands and without using a wired switch.:(
After trying a bunch of different mounting positions I've decided the best solution for me to mount the WG6D to the 9 o'clock rail positioned in a way where I can activate it with my support hand thumb. This also allows me to easily use the light when I switch sides.
I chose 3 o'clock because so I can leave the 9 o'clock rail open so the light does not get in the way of the sling mount and because things were also getting cramped on on the 9 o'clock rail especially whith I the thumbs forward grip I prefer. Switching my grip to activate the light hasn't proven to be an issue for me and I really like the extra room for my supprt hand when not using the light.
Seems like I've gone full circle with where I mounted my lights.:p
I would like to se a G2LED in tan.:p
I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has used a Surefire 676. It looks like it's ideally placed and the switch would fall right to hand using a forward grip on the handguard or a VFG. I'd seriously consider this setup with an LED upgrade if I weren't running a suppressed SBR.
http://www.visuality.com/personal/misc/surefire676_800.jpg
I do feel that a G2, or 6P and the like do need the shock isolated bezel to protect the bulb. When the bulb gets hot and you bang the light, or maybe even the carbine on something metal, or a door frame the filament will break easily when hot. Ask me how I know this.;)
If you broke two bulbs in this way it would cover the cost of the shock isolated bezel. Now that other options are available, the LED may be the better way to go for durability reasons. M.H.O.
Derek, have you checked out a Surefire Scout?
Derek_Connor
03-08-08, 22:44
Derek, have you checked out a Surefire Scout?
Definitely, there always seems to be good deals everywhere on those..
But, it also seems like you can get the same performance in brightness, with only sacrificing an ounce or so, but saving $150 across the board...
How about the G2 with an LED head in an Vltor or DD mount?
I have something similar. It's quite a package for the money.
My suggestion is to hold onto the M900. Try out the other options you are considering, and if you find one that will truly replace the M900, then consider selling the M900. But once you get used to a M900, everything else just seems like a huge compromise in comparison.
I went through a similar phase a few years back. I sold my M900, and tried out four different light configurations that worked pretty well, but just didnt compare to the M900's overall package. I ended up buying a new M900.
All things considered, the M900 offers a hell of alot of benefits, and when you add up the weight and cost of a seperate 9volt light, mount, switch, vertical grip, etc. you will likely end up with a light set-up that weighs just as much, if not more then the M900 without the performance of the M900.
If you do not need all of the features the M900 offers, then I think the X300 with the XT switch is the way to go which will save you a good amount of weight. Good luck!!!
i am new here and maybe i missed it but would someone tell me how many lumens you suggest. would like to have one for indoors cqb and carbine classes but also for some use outside. based on what you guys have been saying i was looking at the surefire L4 LumaMax. 4 ounces and 100 lumens led on a larue mount. what do you think of this setup? enough light? thanks
Ideal? maybe, for sure it's low cost.
Pentagon light, DD offset mount on Surefire rail. Pentagon lights are shock resistant and produce 70 lumens (advertised).
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/BP_3_.jpg
Jay Cunningham
03-23-08, 10:16
i am new here and maybe i missed it but would someone tell me how many lumens you suggest. would like to have one for indoors cqb and carbine classes but also for some use outside. based on what you guys have been saying i was looking at the surefire L4 LumaMax. 4 ounces and 100 lumens led on a larue mount. what do you think of this setup? enough light? thanks
65 lumens white light (as from a standard 6P/G2) is considered "tactical level" light and should suffice for most indoor/outdoor applications.
The biggest issue for me was light placement, for a long time I obsessed abuout the best place to put the light but then I finally realized that there is no one perfect location which will allow you to use the light with both hands and without using a wired switch.:(
A Surefire X200 or 300 at 12:00 is just about a perfect match for what you are describing.
Robb Jensen
03-23-08, 11:06
A Surefire X200 or 300 at 12:00 is just about a perfect match for what you are describing.
I agree.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/f304d55c.jpg
Voodoochild
03-23-08, 17:58
I agree.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/f304d55c.jpg
Showoff!!!
Derek_Connor
03-23-08, 18:14
I ended up running a G2 with the upgraded lamp assembly, with a larue offset mount...worked very well, very bright
You can kind of see it here, rifle on right right
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v370/M4-TUNA/DSC01249.jpg
not necessarily a weapon mounted light but I just picked up the new Fenix TK10 tactical style flash light, about the size of the SF G2, for $79 shipped, and it's a doozy!
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_85&products_id=438
it's a big sturdy 1" waterproof light made out of alu. and steel that uses two 3V CR123A lithium batteries powering the new Cree (05) 7090 LED in two modes - 225 Constant lumens for 1.5 hrs., or 60 Constant lumens for 10 hours. very even, very constant illumination in the daylight spectrum with a nice hotspot fading very smoothly into a huge spill. it's a thing of beauty...
I'm not that hip to all the lighting coolness but the geeks that are, say it easily compares, quality-wise, to the hideously expensive lights at two and three times the price.
I am hoping to find a 1" mount to put it in to attach it to a rail but I don't know if it has a tape switch available for it yet as it was just released. it's generating quite a bit of a buzz on the lighting forums so I expect something will happen soon. If not, I'll just use the rear momentary switch until something comes out.
just thought you'd want to know...
Depends on what you want to do, and what your budget is.
On my patrol carbines, I've used:
M900 on a forearm rail, and also on a Surefire M73
The below lights mounted on a MI #01 FSB rail, and a VLTOR scout mount as needed:
6P w/65 lumen bulb, with a Z32
6P w/Lumens Factory HO-6 160 lumen bulb, w/Z32
X200B
X300
I ran the M900 for about 2 yrs. First on the M73, and later on the forearm rail. Sold them due to bulk/weight issues. Wouldn't fit the rack in my patrol car, either. The tape switches were prone to causing white light NDs.
I prefer having the rifle up front with me, as opposed to in the trunk, and I like the lighter, simpler setup better (even though it doesn't LOOK at cool as the M900 on the M73).
At present, I like the X200 for indoor work (it has a bright, very wide beam), and the 6P and 160 lumen bulb for outdoor work (it has a good throw).
The X300 compares very nicely to the 6P/160, and is a good all around light.
If you're on a budget, get a G2L and mount it on a MI #01 FSB rail in a VLTOR G-series scout mount.
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