View Full Version : CBS nightly news report with the ATF.
So the CBS nightly news just did a little segment about the ATF and gun traces. Guy from the ATF said their is no registration and that in 1986 law was passed to prohibit registration. So what do they show next? Tens of thousands of form 4473s in their possession that they are logging into their system. They get them whenever ffls shut their doors...they are converting them to digital format...boom defacto gun registration.
So the CBS nightly news just did a little segment about the ATF and gun traces. Guy from the ATF said their is no registration and that in 1986 law was passed to prohibit registration. So what do they show next? Tens of thousands of form 4473s in their possession that they are logging into their system. They get them whenever ffls shut their doors...they are converting them to digital format...boom defacto gun registration.
When they say there is "no registration" they mean no "complete registration." They will call those 4473s record storage.
When they say there is "no registration" they mean no "complete registration." They will call those 4473s record storage.
Good point.
We who are informed all aware of these shenanigans but it was crazy just how blatant they were about it. ATF guy just said we do the best we can tracing guns...
They also werent trading guns to the Sinaloa Cartel for dirt on the Gulf Coast Cartel and Zetas(not to mention allowing the Sinaloa's merch. clearance across the border).....untill someone with half a brain blew the whistle on them.
Nope all those weapons in Mexico were from the gunshows on the border lol......I guess if BATFE agents hit up gunshows on a regular basis.
Hey man, when the welfare state goes bankrupt (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-30/quarter-jobs-america-pay-below-federal-poverty-line) and there's urban unrest, they need to know who to disarm so the natives can come in behind the disarmament squads to ransack good people's houses, disposses the owners of them, and move in. That's what "change" in this country's about anymore, right? Be a useful idiot reliant on the federal government, and when the fed can't afford the handouts anymore, they will reward them with all of our stuff. The only hangup is our guns...
Oh and speaking of the ATF: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/atfs-milwaukee-sting-operation-marred-by-mistakes-failures-mu8akpj-188952581.html?abc=Ct5vpWpS
xrayoneone
01-30-13, 22:57
I just talked to a dealer today and he was told by the ATF he has to have a copy of the buyers DL and a copy of a utility bill or car registration to go with it. I said he must have misinterpreted what the ATF said. He proceeded to show me a form letter and sure enough that's what it said.
This is Southern California so I don't know wtf but I'll be talking to some people tomorrow to see what the deal is.
I just talked to a dealer today and he was told by the ATF he has to have a copy of the buyers DL and a copy of a utility bill or car registration to go with it. I said he must have misinterpreted what the ATF said. He proceeded to show me a form letter and sure enough that's what it said.
This is Southern California so I don't know wtf but I'll be talking to some people tomorrow to see what the deal is.
Sounds like a "legal alien" issue.
xrayoneone
01-30-13, 23:05
Sounds like a "legal alien" issue.
Not to me, though I've never been a legal alien. All the dealers here are required to copy the DL and that IS an ATF directive. If it was an alien issue then they would want the A number and a copy of the LAPR card, but they don't.
Not to me, though I've never been a legal alien. All the dealers here are required to copy the DL and that IS an ATF directive. If it was an alien issue then they would want the A number and a copy of the LAPR card, but they don't.
Sorry I meant "resident alien."
They want things like utility bills to prove residency. It's the ONLY time I've been required to get such things. Of course it could be a CA thing, rest assured it is not something done for every 4473 nationwide.
Now I write down the DL number (or other qualifying proof of identity) on the 4473, but I've never made an actual copy of the license.
Iraq Ninja
01-30-13, 23:41
During our audit two months ago, the agent said specifically that we do not need to have a copy of the drivers license here in Texas.
I just talked to a dealer today and he was told by the ATF he has to have a copy of the buyers DL and a copy of a utility bill or car registration to go with it. I said he must have misinterpreted what the ATF said. He proceeded to show me a form letter and sure enough that's what it said.
This is Southern California so I don't know wtf but I'll be talking to some people tomorrow to see what the deal is.
This is a CA DOJ requirement. Both agencies do regular audits of FFL's.
Mauser KAR98K
01-31-13, 02:00
As some of you might know, I have proposed points that if the Congress proposed a ban on private sales without a back ground check that the bill must have the following in it to get my backing, and I am sure others.
Points 1 and 4 would solidify what ban the government has on not creating a national registry.
1. No national registration with every gun purchased privately or from the dealer.
2.Hold 4473s for two years for law enforcement purposes to trace a weapon after the commission of a crime, and to keep the seller liability free. After 2 years, records can be destroyed.
3.Issue a receipt to the private seller upon completion of the background check that the seller can hold onto for liability purposes.
4. A permanent ban on the government to create a national gun registry. A registration will violent key provisions in the Bill of Rights. The U.S Federal Government needs a backstop to remind them they cannot do this.
5. Make it that out of state face-to-face private sales are not classified as gun trafficking if a background check is done. The seller or buyer must be resident of one of the states that the transaction is being done in. I.E. A seller from Florida is selling a gun to a guy in Georgia. They can only sell it in one of the two states, not in Nevada. *This is a compromise from that I believe a sale can be done anywhere as long as the background check is done.
6. Allow both private parties to approach a FFL dealer for a background check without the dealer recording the firearm in their logs. This prevents a defacto registration if the FFL dealer closes shop.
7. FFLs cannot place an unreasonable price for a back ground check for private sales. This would not encourage the intent of the idea. (They will be getting walk in business anyways with what this idea will produce--win for the LGS).
8. No background checks on ammunition. This will hamper training for law abiding and law enforcement officers as it becomes much harder to gain ammunition. Plus, it is also a violation of the 4th Amendment of Search and Seizure clause.
9. “Hand-me down weapons are excluded when given to direct family members.
Anything you all would like to add.
On topic: I always knew the ATF was getting around the no registry ban some how. It seems they find loopholes themselves.
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