Accuracy and reliability, what more could you want?

[Jdbl14]

I have been shooting pistols regularly now for 5 or 6 years. The first pistol I personally owned was a Smith & Wesson SW9VE, otherwise known as, "the shittiest-cheap-piece-of-crap-Sigma". While I admit it's no amazing high-speed wonder gun, I think it's hilarious how "gun guys" judge it and me, for owning it.
In the years since I bought the Sigma, I have shot well over 5,000 rounds through it. Mostly shooting federal 115grain fmj from Wally World, but also numerous other fmj and hp rounds, even +p and +p+. In all the thousands of rounds I have never had one malfunction, not one. I honestly have treated the pistol like crap, barely cleaning or lubing it. I mean, heck, I didn't even spend $250 on it and 4 magazines...

One of the things I hear about constantly is how crappy the trigger is... Guess what, the trigger is heavy, has a bunch of pre-travel&over-travel, and crappy reset. The simple fact is this gun shoots where I put the sights, every time I pull the trigger. As long as I don't let the gun push me around, it does its job, flawlessly...

But wait you say, "you just admitted that the trigger is horrible, that's a flaw". I guess it could be, but I as a responsible grown-up use my brain and take advantage of what I have, not what I could spend more to get.

Nowadays I own multiple pistols, I haven't gotten rid of the Sigma, why should I. It's not the prettiest, but it works. I have guys all the time tell me how I really should get a good 1911, so I can see what a "real" handgun is like. Now I understand that in competition all the little things can really add up, but for range and possible home defense, what's wrong with something that just works? To this day, including ammo I haven't even spent the cost of a "properly" set up 1911.

Having "grown up" on the firearms world shooting one of its "red-headed-step-children" I have learned to not judge a shooter by his gun, even if it is a Judge(sorry, I couldn't resist the pun).

For every "fudd" I meet with the latest in mall ninja goodness, I meet plenty with top of the line professional equipment, and no real shooting skills. That said if I see someone at the range rocking unusual gear successfully I go out of my way to check it out.

As long as what someone has is accurate & reliable and they can use it effectively, then who cares what name is on the slide, or how much it costs. Am I right?

[brushy bill]

As long as it works for you, you are right. Lot of Glocks, M&Ps, etc with fleas. Sounds like you have a pretty solid SIGMA. I'd roll with it. No need for approval from the "authorities".

[60buckscash]

A half hour with a polishing stone and a ball point pen spring will straighten that trigger out.

I need to send my shot out sigma barrel in for a warranty claim.

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[bigghoss]

If it works, roll with it. I've seen a lot of guys try to justify a gun with a shitty reputation by saying they've shot 100 or so rounds through it and it didn't jam. That's not enough to "prove" a gun, but 5,000 is more than enough.

I like 1911's. I own one and will probably get one or two more. But they have a lot of draw backs and the main upside is the cool factor. You can get one with a great trigger but I wouldn't say leaps and bounds over anything else. I liken it to driving a classic car VS a camry. I say that as someone who despises FWD cars and has never owned a vehicle made after 1989.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

My current carry gun is the Smith and Wesson SD9. I was intrigued by the gun since it came out a few years ago, but I waited until December to pull the trigger and buy one. For a $340 gun, I think I got a lot of gun for the money. I don't have a bazillion rounds through it yet, but I have enough through it to trust it for daily carry.

When people say "I bought XXXX brand gun and now I read on teh internetz that it's a pile of dog turd. What should I do?" I ask them "Is it reliable?". If the answer is yes, I tell them to shoot it until it gives them a reason not to trust it.

[bigghoss]

I hear good things about the SD line. I'd like to see a .45 added to the series.

[DocH]

Have a good friend who has one in .40. Hard trigger,but totally reliable and accurate. Sister in law has a nine. Same thing. They feel more natural in the hand to me than the M&P's.
Did I just say that? Yep!

[60buckscash]

Remember the Sigma and SD lines are Glocks with enough changes to not get sued by Glock again.

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[cqbdriver]

Remember the Sigma and SD lines are Glocks with enough changes to not get sued by Glock again.

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Glock has a pending patent on the BTF feature. S&W better not copy that feature or Gaston will sue their pants off.

[60buckscash]

The Sigma F resulted in a lawsuit (even though it sucked). That is why the Sigma VE was made. S&W also worked on the reliability in this model. Now they let an M&P get liquored up and take advantage of a Sigma one lonely night in Springfield. Tada the SD is born!

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[WickedWillis]

it's nice to see someone defending what they like that the "tactical elitists" on here hate. I am all for an individual being effective with what they like. You said in your post, "But wait you say, "you just admitted that the trigger is horrible, that's a flaw". I guess it could be, but I as a responsible grown-up use my brain and take advantage of what I have, not what I could spend more to get." And that honestly is a responsible adult statement. Great post and keep enjoying your gun!

[Jdbl14]

Thanks Willis, I kind of felt bad posting this thread, felt that I may have come across as whining.

I find it funny how much people judge others by what brand name is on their firearms. I have actually had guys roll their eyes when I mention my Sigma. Most of the time it is someone who has never even shot one.

And as I said, to me as long as a gun is accurate and reliable, I am willing to man up and put rounds on target.

[A62Rambler]

I've got a SD9VE. It works for me every time so I carry it. I have two franken ARs that are the same story. One does have a famous maker barrel due to a custom caliber I had made. I'm a firm believer in a reliable firearms that work. I recommended a SD to a friend and he thanks me every time he sees me! Great Post! I'd like to see more posts like this one.

[anachronism]

The last I heard, all the Stigma based guns had been discontinued by S&W. As one of the original Stigma owners, I feasted upon the news of their demise. I thought the Llama Omni was a POS until I bought the Stigma. I am glad that your guns are working, but the early ones were a total disaster. I was there, and still have the range bag.

[60buckscash]

You probably had the F model. All black and with a 17rd mag right? The VE model is the current version still in production. Reliability improved leaps and bounds. Besides the trigger they are a great gun. Show me another reliable full size hand gun under $350.

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[Bodhi]

My dad has a sigma, he and I are probably going to do that trigger mod one of these days. It's supposed to divide the trigger weight in half.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

You probably had the F model. All black and with a 17rd mag right? The VE model is the current version still in production. Reliability improved leaps and bounds. Besides the trigger they are a great gun. Show me another reliable full size hand gun under $350.

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No the Sigma has been dropped from their lineup. The briefly offered it as the SWVE, not to be confused with the SDVE, but have dropped the Sigma VE in favor of the SD line.

[Bulletdog]

Quote: "Accuracy and reliability, what more could you want?"

I want a solid reputation among industry professionals for reliability and quality, and a proven track record in actual use.

My instructor has a whole load of loaner pistols for his classes. Tens of thousands of rounds, with a minimum of maintenance, go through his guns every year. When I ask him, or any of the people who run his classes with him, which guns are of the best quality and highest reliability, he does not mention the Sigma. Sometimes I like to think for myself and go against his recommendations. Even though I only shoot a few thousand rounds in a given year, my actual experience mirrors his recommendations, every time. And yes, I have fired a Sigma, and my experience with it made me decide not to buy one.

If this makes me some sort of gun snob, I'm okay with that. I'm also happy to hear that any gun owner has actually run 5000 rounds through their gun. I wish more people would shoot and practice that much. My hat is off to you sir, and I am glad you like your pistol and that it's been reliable for you. My reason for posting is simply to answer your original question.

[TriviaMonster]

The only problem is holsters and mags and gear and parts are not as easy to find normally as a Glock or M&P or XD or whatever.

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[RHINOWSO]

If it works for you, roll with it.

[PathofPain]

Thanks for your thoughts on this pistol. I'm glad it is working for you.

Any idea on a parts count?

[Psalms144.1]

I had the pleasure of working with an FBI agent in TX who carried an early Sigma as a personal weapon - and it was 100% reliable in his hands, and he out shot most of the folks who would come to the line with him, even though many of them had tuned 1911s in their hands.

I always default to the old saying: "If it looks stupid but it works, it's not stupid." I personally don't care for the Sigmas, but, that's one man's opinion. Don't let anyone on in errornet tell you what you should or shouldn't carry, as long as what you're carrying isn't a total POS like a Lorcin...

Regards,

Kevin

[Todd.K]

it's nice to see someone defending what they like that the "tactical elitists" on here hate.

While there are some who believe that only a 1911 trigger is good enough most here only look for a quality, duty reliable pistol that they can shoot well.

A pistol model that is made to meet a low price point is probably not as reliable as one built to compete in LE/military trials. Price is often a big factor in many LE purchases (after several models pass the reliability testing), so the fact that S&W choose not to enter the Sigma line in any trials I know of probably says something about the reliability and or long term durability of that model line.

[60buckscash]

They were probably to busy filling the orders for the Afghan National Police force to compete in domestic trials.

[Todd.K]

Trials for major LE departments can be worth a lot, and even more important are a significant marketing tool. S&W is absolutely competing (and winning some) US LE trials, they just choose to enter the M&P.

I believe that info points to the M&P as being a better duty quality pistol. It doesn't mean your cheaper model is not meeting your needs in a pistol.

[blueorison]

You're on the money.

Read my sig.

I'm right there with ya. What people think is irrelevant, when you are the one depressing the trigger and making the hits count.

I've shot that model of firearm. It does have an insanely heavy trigger. Almost as heavy as a mosin nagant revolver's.

[jsbsmarine]

Man the sigma brings me back to some old memories.
I had an original SW9F. Biggest POS ever, was my first handgun back in 99? or so and boy did I regret that piece of shit. Could not get it to ever run with ANY type of ammo, whether crap reloads, walmart bulk, premium hollowpoints, hornady, wolf, etc etc. Complete pos that jammed every 2 or 3 rounds. Dumped it and got myself a g lock and never looked back since then. Ergo wasn't that bad, just it jammed so much I feared for my life if i ever had to use it in self defense. Glad its more reliable now, that really was my biggest issue.

[bleaman225]

Apex Tactical offers a spring kit for the Sigmas and the SDs...

Sigma: https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid66.html

SD: https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid57.html

Pimp those things son!